The Death of Figure Skating as Art

[Sam-Skwantch]

If you go to a ballet and see a stumble or to the symphony and there is an a trainwreck of noises I would tend to think it would be frowned upon and considered a disappointment. Yet in figure skating if a skater falls they are usually met with encouragement as the crowd tries to show support to continue on. As we have seen...skaters can still fall and have success and even be pleasing to their fans....think Olympic Sasha Cohen. This makes me believe that skating competitions are sport first and arts and entertainment second. While we should encourage artistic development I see little value in discouraging atheletic triumph. At the very least we shouldn't try to make people who show interest in the high paced atheletic side of the sport to feel as if they are killing it. To me it's no different than saying is the SPORT of figure skating dying had I been posting in a different era where pretty was more ..... although I say that with hesitation and disbelief.

 

[gkelly]

Most skaters in the US are very bland and lacking in charisma.

That may be the kind of personality it takes to spend all those hours practicing technique.

You can have more flamboyant personalities, but they tend to be less consistent/reliable as athletes. Think Christopher Bowman or my fave Nicole Bobek.

Pro skating is a good fit for skaters who are more interested in entertaining audiences than perfecting their edges. But they have to reach a certain level of success in the competitive context before most audiences or promoters would give them a second glance. When pro skating was at its height in the mid-1990s, there were opportunities for a few skaters to gain followings without competitive hardware.

And there were some stars of ice shows, e.g., Richard Dwyer, who made their careers by appealing to audiences in a show context. But that kind of show was very mid-20th-century and would not be a solution for the 21st century.

Is there any way a promoter could put together a professional skating show that would appeal to today's young adults? Enough to entice people to buy tickets to live performances, or is today's audience more inclined to watch on TV/online, which are increasingly becoming the same thing -- but miss the excitement of the live experience.

I would love it if someone with deep pockets would finance an "alternative," sophisticated ice show that focused on artistic skating with a modern edge - similar to the Art on Ice or Artistry on Ice productions. It's truly a shame if a country the size of the US cannot support a production like that.

I think part of the problem is appealing to different generations of fans. The same show probably can't work as "family entertainment" appropriate for tweens, and also appeal to hip 20-somethings, and also to nostalgic older adults.

Another part is the size of the US. If there are dozens-hundreds of fans in each city, enough to add up and fill several arenas worth of shows, that's going to require a lot of travel on the part of many of those fans as well as the performers to get a full crowd all in the same place at the same time. Is it possible to get skaters that the public wants to see (already familiar names) in an appealing themed/structured show at a ticket price that audiences are willing to shell out for an evening's entertainment?

I hope so, but as you say, it would take deep pockets from an investor to get something started.

And stars with the right kind of name recognition (preferably Olympic medals) and charisma would be needed to attract a critical mass of audiences.

Is there any way such an investor could start with a TV show that would build audience demand for this kind of skating, outside the competitive context?

 

[dorispulaski]

I don't know-but I would start by booking Jason Brown, Rohene Ward, Julia Lipnitskaia, and Yuzuru Hanyu...

 

[yyyskate]

US is a diverse and individualism country. Nobody give a beep about what others do. every one focus on their own business. and there are tons of attractions(sports, entertainment) for kids in US to try other than figure skating. Even there is a blonde, blue eyed Michelle Kwan who win OGM. I doubt that figure skating will become popular... There is no all-american any more. When is figure skating most popular in US, does it coincident with the good old days?
Whilst in Japan, figure skating is the perfect sports, a culture that values cuteness, fantasy, sparkles,
as for Russian, it is all about pride, power...(and most of them are blonde blue eyed, the type figure skating judges love the most.)
Besides, figure skating is an elite sports ...
When kids in Russia is inspired by JuliaLip, their family know that through hard work, their kid could become next JuliaLip, so they invest.
However, would you expect a South Korean family to invest on their kids' figure skating dream amply after they saw how Yuna was treated ...

 

[gkelly]

So, since most of those skaters are still competing, it would have to be a spring/summer thing, which is not the time of year most people are thinking about figure skating.

For a one-time TV show, it could be recorded any time and shown whenever audiences would be most interested. But for a tour or any kind of series, it would make more sense to use skaters who have finished their competitive careers.

But it's a lot easier to market an Olympic hopeful than an Olympic also-ran (or never-made-it). And Olympic medalists who are still able to form at high levels but not focused on competing are always in short supply. Maybe the team medals will help somewhat with that issue.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

That is a good question, but I think Blades of Passion is right. It is utterly beyond comprehension why some people become famous in America and others don't.

I think BOP's argument is that is isn't beyond comprehension; it is due to the decline in artistry due to requirements under COP. The examples you give would indicate COP is not the reason for the decline.

 

[silverfoxes]

Is there any way a promoter could put together a professional skating show that would appeal to today's young adults? Enough to entice people to buy tickets to live performances, or is today's audience more inclined to watch on TV/online, which are increasingly becoming the same thing -- but miss the excitement of the live experience.


I think part of the problem is appealing to different generations of fans. The same show probably can't work as "family entertainment" appropriate for tweens, and also appeal to hip 20-somethings, and also to nostalgic older adults.

Another part is the size of the US. If there are dozens-hundreds of fans in each city, enough to add up and fill several arenas worth of shows, that's going to require a lot of travel on the part of many of those fans as well as the performers to get a full crowd all in the same place at the same time. Is it possible to get skaters that the public wants to see (already familiar names) in an appealing themed/structured show at a ticket price that audiences are willing to shell out for an evening's entertainment?

I hope so, but as you say, it would take deep pockets from an investor to get something started.

And stars with the right kind of name recognition (preferably Olympic medals) and charisma would be needed to attract a critical mass of audiences.

Is there any way such an investor could start with a TV show that would build audience demand for this kind of skating, outside the competitive context?

I realize that it wouldn't be easy to undertake a tour, and I don't think skaters particularly like being on the road all the time either. I think about how Cirque du Soleil has been successful in Las Vegas, and I wonder if there could ever be some kind of crossover show there. The added name recognition of Cirque would pull in tourists that normally wouldn't think of seeing an ice show. With a residency, they could have a regular cast of pros and also bring in guest skaters for special engagements.

Probably never going to happen, but I'll keep dreaming.

 

[karne]

However, would you expect a South Korean family to invest on their kids' figure skating dream amply after they saw how Yuna was treated ...

You mean, over-scored for years and years, an Olympic OGM, her flaws ignored, and an OSM as well? That's a pretty good run.


I think other things that would help is how we as skating fans talk to non-skating people. I mean, if I was listening to some of you talk, and the endless whining about the scoring system and so-and-so was robbed and the ISU are killing the sport and EVIL RUSSIA IS TRYING TO DESTROY THE SPORT and blah blah blah, I wouldn't exactly be chomping at the bit to get into watching.

 

[jimeonji]

You mean, over-scored for years and years, an Olympic OGM, her flaws ignored, and an OSM as well? That's a pretty good run.


I think other things that would help is how we as skating fans talk to non-skating people. I mean, if I was listening to some of you talk, and the endless whining about the scoring system and so-and-so was robbed and the ISU are killing the sport and EVIL RUSSIA IS TRYING TO DESTROY THE SPORT and blah blah blah, I wouldn't exactly be chomping at the bit to get into watching.

Honestly, based on what I've seen, to Koreans, Yuna is bigger than figure skating. She is everything a young Korean could aspire to be: beautiful, successful, humble, and charitable.

I mean, I most certainly don't talk about how judging sucks with my non skating watching friends. I talk about what I love about skating and my favorite skaters and how they inspire me. I wouldn't expect them to understand any of my complaints about the corruption of judging - why should I talk about them? I'd much rather show them why I watch skating despite not being a skater myself.

 

[Mathman]

However, would you expect a South Korean family to invest on their kids' figure skating dream amply after they saw how Yuna was treated ...

There is a saying in the United States, "She cries all the way to the bank." I think if a family thought their daughter could become the richest sports-woman in the country that, yeah, they might consider it a good investment.

 

[Blades of Passion]

I think we should remember that the decline in the popularity of figure skating in the United States began around 1998-2000.

The initial "decline" wasn't too large, though. Figure Skating at the 2002 Olympics had a massive viewership and I remember most of the girls around me in my life eagerly talking about watching it.

The oversaturation of the market and the low quality of many of the shows after the "whack" definitely hurt the sport. It's safe to assume the sport probably wouldn't be able to permanently maintain the absolute fervor it achieved in 1994, but it certainly could have kept a consistently high level of interest if truly great skating and production values was being given to audiences. The lack of a high standard hurt the future of the sport and the cheated judging in 2002 created a further knock against it.

The leadership of the sport has been bad this whole time and the resulting changes after 2002 have continued to dig the hole more and more. With two knocks against the sport already now, the new scoring system and its hugely negative impact on the aesthetic values of the sport created a third knock.

I recall a quite unanimous reaction in 2007 from all of the people I know who weren't involved in the sport but used to be ardent figure skating fans - they saw Kimmie Meissner at 2007 Nationals and all said "How can this be the champion? Her posture sucks, her spins are ugly, she has no stretch, she doesn't move to the music, and she didn't even nail the jumps. This feels like it would have placed 5th at best a few years ago." Then they watched the World Championships and yawned at how awful the programs were. That was the moment when most of them stopped following the sport. They watched the 2010 Olympics with some interest but didn't keep watching afterward. The majority of them did not bother to watch the 2014 Olympics and the ones who did laughed at the result.

-----

If this sport is ever going to become a major thing again we NEED to see a revolution of artistry being valued and programs being significantly improved...and the only way for that to start is if the scoring system and judging are perfected. We've had CoP for 10 years now and the ISU still is ignorant as to how it needs to be precisely balanced and used. They are running around like first-year algebra students who pretend to understand calculus. Such a sham.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Changes in artistry will not make skating a major sport again. As mentioned, the popularity of the sport is contingent on big names, rivalries and key events (the whack, SLC judging scandal, etc.). The vast majority of people who even would watch sports in general aren't going to be like "Oh, Cup of Russia is on!" The issue with viewership is skating is much more esoteric when there's no Kwan to root for or no scandal rocking the skating world. Allowing more creative freedom isn't going to change that. Telling people the focus on artistry is greater isnt going to make them think "oh, well now I HAVE to watch!".

Average sports fans dont care about skating outside of the Olympics.

You think most sports fans watch downhill skiing outside of the Olympics? Bobsled? Moguls? Even at the Olympics figure skating is the marquee event. You think people tuned into men's/pairs/ice dance events pre-CoP the way they did for ladies? Ice dance was arguably the MOST artistic with the most creative freedom and I can tell you almost nobody other than skating fans watched those at Olympics (heck, outside the Olympics) pre-COP because they wanted to see jumps and spins.

You're seeking two different things: skating being more of an art and skating becoming a major popular sport again, and the latter is certainly not significantly dependent on the former.

 

[karne]

Telling people the focus on artistry is greater isnt going to make them think "oh, well now I HAVE to watch!".

+1

in fact, it might even drive some casual viewers away, since they would then be affirmed in their view that it is not a sport, rather, a performing art caving to the demands of the arrogant art snobs.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

+1

in fact, it might even drive some casual viewers away, since they would then be affirmed in their view that it is not a sport, rather, a performing art caving to the demands of the arrogant art snobs.

Agreed. Although somebody saying "this guy is going to attempt 5 quads" or "Mao is trying to be the first to land 2 triple axels" or "An Olympic medal for the US is on the line" are reasons to watch if you're a casual sports fan.

The sport becoming more athletic has helped challenge skaters at least within the sport, but its not what's dissuading people from outside the sport tuning in. Skating is actually quite fortunate to have its current viewership, compared to other artistic sports like synchro swimming and rhythmic gymnastics.

Art snobs are kinda hilarious - they can't understand why such a beautiful sport like skating isn't as popular as football, and think the solution is making it more artistic, with less jumping passes. Hey, lets make art galleries more popular by putting in less contemporary art... That way people won't go to a pop concert or baseball game for entertainment.

 

[Mathman]

Agreed. Although somebody saying "this guy is going to attempt 5 quads" or "Mao is trying to be the first to land 2 triple axels" or "An Olympic medal for the US is on the line" are reasons to watch if you're a casual sports fan.

I doubt that many casual sports fans will care if someone does two triple Axels -- or even know what a triple Axel is.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I doubt that many casual sports fans will care if someone does two triple Axels -- or even know what a triple Axel is.

I think even the most casual skating fans know about a triple axel (and I would wager that many of them know it's a major jump/very difficult jump).

At least elements are tangible. You could say that the sport now makes skaters do harder spins and footwork, and pushes them to execute more quads and triple-triple combos.

But how does one even begin to use "the artistry has improved" as selling point?

 

[Krunchii]

I doubt that many casual sports fans will care if someone does two triple Axels -- or even know what a triple Axel is.

My friends who tune in every 4 years don't know the difference between all the jumps, when I said that Mao Asada is the only woman who does the triple axel they assumed that all other women can only do double jumps before I explained the difference to them =S For them I think artistry is a bonus, as long as there's nothing really bad or cringeworthy I seldom find my friends commenting on something other than the jumps and spins, unless there's a story (eg Joannie in 2010) they're not really interested which is a shame

 

[OS]

First of all I want to clarify why I reject the notion of 'Art is subjective'. Not because Art is either subjective or objective. It can be both. I said 'it shouldn't be subjective' because I happen to believe 'Art is objective' should be the more valid but neglected view point in this sport. I reject the notion after years of repeatedly seeing dishonest and lazy arguments at the expense of 'Art is subjective', for it had manifested into some sort of 'pledge the 5th' rule for unfair scoring and poor reasoning. The term itself simply lost meaning and purpose over the years.

Sample One.
A: How on earth did skater X win on PCS with 3 types of triples and 3 falls?
B: Ohh but look at the Aaaarrrt!
A: What Aaarrrt?
B: Art is subjective. X is the best!!
A: ...


Sample Two
A: My favourite skaters are the best. They are most artistic.
B: I don't get it. Can you explain.
A: No need. Art is subjective. They are the best!!!
B: $*&#"£%&!!!!


Sample Three
A: Wow this skater's PCS has climbed massively over 1 season. How did that happen?
B: Well... look at the Aaart.
A: What Aaart?
B: Well Art is subjective. It is not my problem you don't get it. ! It has nothing to do with they have a strong federation at all!! Ohh i love them so much!!!!
A: Oh alright then. Since you used that 'Art is subjective' I must be missing something *shrug*.

(me/silent reader: Oh no you are not! Have more convictions mannn!!)


Sample Four
Judge A: Skater X has worked up to receive high PCS over the years, but how come you decide to lower X's average while marked Skater Z up by 10 points from their usual when X went more perfect and displayed better skating skills, choreography and connection to the music?
Judge B: I feel Skater Z was especially passionate and expressive in the performance to my favourite music of all time. European classics is superior music. I enjoyed listening to it immensely in the background. The waving to me was especially genius. It made me feel important and it empowers me to make a real difference. I feel strongly connected and was riveted to the end. I couldn't believe there's only one small mistake. X's program I don't care nor understand after what Z's did. Z deserves to win. Z has never skated better.
Judge A: So it has nothing to do with Z is from your country , and the event is in your country and your husband and president is pressuring you? And that you had been pushing for a Olympics gold for your country over the entire course of your career?
Judge B: Art is subjective, don't you know? I am allowed to feel anything I want. EVERYONE SAYS SO!

-----------

If Art is truly subjective, then Figure skating has no business being an Olympic sport.

If the judges are incapable of to reward PCS objectively over ruling their personal subjectivity, then they have no business being allowed to judge.

No programs are created entirely out of subjectivity of the creative team. Not for a judged event.

Similar to Design and Craft, that aims to create objective work to serve specific purposes, these programs are designed with functional requirements for competitive skating. Created to complement and present the skater to the best possibility and in most cases smart layout, minimum effort, maximum number crunching. Majority of the programs are most likely to have been created to appeal for mass subjectivity (music, costume, makeup, aesthetic approach), especially to the demographic of the judges and to a point the audiences. As such, the art in COP figure skating is certainly objective. As objective as much as commercial art, religious art, commissioned art. It is not fine art, whose role is not to seek pleasure, to become some moral compass aiming for aesthetics but very much of the subjective expression from the artists above all else and does not seek mass consent from a general audience. As much as the audiences can subjectively reacted to a figure skating performance, it has no bearing on the work themselves which are product of objectivity, designed for an objective judging panel within an objective COP framework and competitive environment. Therefore the ART in competitive figure skating should be considered as objective.


Why 'Art is subjective' is bad in this sport

1. It implies all skaters and programs are inherently measured already before anything has taken place on ice, and that it is perfectly acceptable in an Olympic sport.

2. It implies all choreographed programs that select obscure themes/music or chose to interpret it unconventionally cannot be objectively measured against a traditional interpretation of a well known piece according to a particular make up of judges, because subjectively human beings are going to trust what they know instead of venture into unknown at first impression.

3. It implies any judges with strong personal preference or bias can abuse PCS without needing to acknowledge better artistic merits when their decisions are based on their personal subjectivity.

4. It implies well conceived and musically difficult program can never able to receive their proper merit for their extra efforts vs something that that takes 5 minutes to decide for popularity, sensationalism, of past years greatest hits of tried and tested program.

5. It implies incompetency, mistakes, lies, cheats, biases and personal prejudices can all be swept under the carpet of subjectivity and somehow it is perfectly acceptable.

6. It implies the sport is conservative, insular, outdated, provincial, bigoted, culturally irrelevant and inherently unfair, so why should the world at large pay any attention and care about it?

For those who went to art schools, just speak to any educators to know whether they are to marking and looking at your work subjectively or objectively. The students are always given a particular theme, concept to explore, while their expressions may come from subjectivity, their aim is always looking to meet the selected theme objectively. The same applies to the organisation and art professions I have named. Infact I'd go as far as to say the whole point of art education is to develop abilities to critically read, create and analyse Art/Design objectively. Becoming very self aware of your personal subjectivity in order to decide which are the best ways develop the abilities to expand your horizons for further means of elevation. In any case Art is too broad term to describe the artistry of this sport, when Design and Craft may be more suited consider the COP environment and constraints, and in particular its preoccupation with the aesthetics above all other qualities in Art.

 

[gkelly]

os186, would you like to discuss some objective qualities of the program components, especially PE, CH, and IN, that can justify specific scores, so that judges, skaters, and fans can get more on the same page about what's being rewarded?

I do think that there will always be some differences of opinions based on life experience (e.g., familiarity with certain musical styles and the history specific pieces), which of the several criteria for each component individual judges/viewers consider most important, even where each viewer happens to be sitting (or camera angles for videos). But it's definitely better if everyone has a common understanding about what should and shouldn't be rewarded.

 

[yyyskate]

I showed Yuna's les Mis and Zijun's sleeping beauty to my friends, one girl and one guy in a row. their knowledge of figure skating is not more than that they know this sport exists (and dont know Yuna or Zijun). however, they immediately find out that Yuna's program seems more difficult than Zijun's. although they have no idea what a lutz or flip is, just based on their visual intuition, that there are more speed, height, impact in Yuna's elements. also, they immediately pointed out that Zijun's seems lacking in dance moves/style, although neither of them are into dance at all. But they can easily tell whether a move is natural, coordinated, effortless, etc.
All I want to say is that casual spectators when they see something truly amazing, athletically and aesthetically, they will know. They can also tell that something looked awkward or even ugly.
And to be honest, other than that, both of my friends, only cares about jumps, on their first view of these 2 programs. because, they are so worried that those lovely young ladies will fall.
my personal experience, I also dont care figure skating at all (not even watch Olympics), until one day I randomly saw Yuna on TV, my eyes was hooked...