Disney Duress over the designation of Princess

Yes I am Bias a little but I think my point is valid for some form of understanding.
:scratch:
O.K. As a becoming father (with a Chinese mother) I notice that a MAJORITY - 90% or more - Disney does not acknowledge Mulan as a princess. This I feel is absolutely disheartening to me that a woman who helped save a kingdom would not be acknowledged for her heroics - rather they glorify girls who received greatness by simply being related to a hierarchy or sat around waiting for a prince to make them as such. I mean I love Sleeping Beauty, but what the heck did she do that makes her worthy of being so honored by the young and impressionable populous?

She was SO beautiful a witch gave her a poison apple and she went to sleep. Both of those sound all so tough for her to go through - what a hard life. Boy howdy did she have to earn that honer didn't she. ?

Where is the honer in risking your very life to save your father and in the course of doing so an entire empire is saved from tourney and torture?

Poco I do rather understand, good strong woman yes - but did she acutely get a title of princess? ~ married into royalty / partnered with someone who will have the title of "King" someday? No? Well that I do understand.:agree:

What great examples are we promoting our children to have.????

Is this the right way?

I admit this is very trivial, but I think it MAY have effect on our youth. How do I tell my sweet little Shan that she should try and she will achieve greatness, when so many examples are glorified of women sitting on their duffs and getting handed the golden prize.
:disapp:

Mulan is NOT royalty and she does not marry into royalty yet Disney counts her among the princesses... She is in the princess line of merchandising. She's just not very popular among the girls, and she's not one of the classics. Not Disney's fault. They're not going to bust their butt over something that doesn't sell.

Pocahontas is considered a princess because her father is a big time Native American chief. She was established as sort of a princess well before Disney came along and reworked her story to a total piece of fiction.

Snow, Cindy, Aurora, Ariel, Belle, and Jazzy are all princesses from century old fables, again some of the details were worked to fit a Disney theme more than going with the traditional story (for example - Ariel is actually a temptress who I wouldn't really consider "good" in the true tale)

All went out of social norms in a way, save for maybe Snow, but that went along very much with the original story, and so what? Why does Disney have to be a poster child for women's lib? Quite frankly I don't find myself stuck in a 1950s mindset because I grew up on the classics.

There have been NO NEW PRINCESSES added since Mulan (whom I don't consider a Princess because she never became one, but to help smooth over relations Disney broke with tradition I guess, they didn't make Shang a prince, though. Why aren't his fans complaining?).

Giselle, from Enchanted, will not be added to the line up. And we'll have to wait and see if the new Princess (who is the first black Disney princess, btw) is sort of a wait and see as Disney has previously stated that the line of princesses would not be added to. But I'm sure they'll make an exception (they should, especially since they let Mulan in and she's not royalty by birth OR marriage)

She was SO beautiful a witch gave her a poison apple and she went to sleep. Both of those sound all so tough for her to go through - what a hard life. Boy howdy did she have to earn that honer didn't she. ?

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Okay, getting picky here, but, this is not the story of Sleeping Beauty, this is the story of Snow White. and the 'witch' was really the 'queen'.

Sleeping Beauty had a spell cast on her at her birth by the evil fairy Maleficent. On her 16th birthday she was to touch the spindle of a spinning wheel and die, but another good fairy changed the spell so that Aurora (the princess) would fall asleep and wait for true loves kiss. The original fairy tale has her waiting for centuries for a prince to awaken her. But Disney sped up the process.

Sleeping Beauty is my favorite Disney movie of all time. Always has been. And Aurora is not the most favored princess by Disney. That goes to Cinderella. Though it seems Walt Himself prefered Aurora as he had Disneyland's castle designed after hers from the film. Cinderella, however, is the poster child for Disney. I think they use her more than they use Mickey to get people to come to the parks.



I think anyone looking to hollywood to 'break social norms' is taking the easy way out. And it's ironic because Hollywood itself is so far behind in so many ways. It cracks me up that all of these actors and actresses are fighting for the US to be more open to certain civil rights, when in their own industry women are considered second class (still) and as such have to deal with all sorts of harrassment. But that's an entirely different rant. Personally I think the farther Disney gets away from the Snow White film, the worse the girls get. They're not just defiant towards evil, they're disrespectful to authority and everyone around them. Not something I'll want any of my children (should I have any) to have.

I admit this is very trivial, but I think it MAY have effect on our youth. How do I tell my sweet little Shan that she should try and she will achieve greatness, when so many examples are glorified of women sitting on their duffs and getting handed the golden prize.

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Cindy made her own magic happen. Even when her family was telling her 'no' she ended up at the ball (fairy godmother or not, Cindy still had to get in that carriage) she got out of the locked tower and she got her prince.

Aurora was a weepy little thing. a good little girl who would allow herself to be broken hearted because she was a princess. but, she was silently defying her caretakers when she dreamt that once upon a dream

Snow White was taken from everything she knew and she made do just fine.

Belle is probably considered the most strong willed. She spoke her mind and basically told the Beast where to go. She stayed true to herself and in the end she gets the prince. She went against her entire village to save him. how is that sitting on your duff?

Ariel went against King Neptune for crying outloud, went from fish woman to full woman, learned an entirely new way of life, and ended up rescuing her prince in the end.

Jazzy defied all of her social norms, and chose a pauper as her future husband causing her father to change the laws of the land.

Pocahontas saved John Smith from death

did I get everyone?

Yes the classic three princesses didn't do a whole lot but scream or cry compared to the latter princesses, but again. I'm not going to let Disney dictate how my kids think (and like I said earlier, I don't think a few princess movies are going to warp a child's mind. Quit using the boob tube as a babysitter and teacher and you'll be fine)

Disney is missing a huge market - aka the Asian market.

My now 6 1/2 yr old niece (she's 50% filippino and 50% Chinese) 1st associated with Mulan. She only likes the princesses with long dark hair - therefore, Mulan, Pocahantus. Belle and Ariel were ok, but she didnt' want any blonde dolls. Considering the size of Asia and the population of Asian descent throughout the world, there is a market for Mulan.

When the same niece was 4, the Disney store had Mulan velourish nightgowns, which I immediately purchased in her size. That was her favorite Christmas present that year - her 1st piece of Mulan clothing. Since them, I've also bought her summer nightgown.

Disney has promoting Jasmine a bit more heavily in stores, but technically she's drawn wrong since Middle Eastern people are generally not fair skinned.

Kid's do 'mature' faster. She's over the Disney princesses. Her favorite fictional Disney character is Gabriella from High School Musical - because of the long dark hair, the music and clothes from the movie and because VH is part Filippino.

So, Seanibu, if you want Mulan merchandise, Ebay is the answer. I've purchased many Mulan items for my niece from sellers in Asia - posters, outfits, etc.

Weren't the original fairytales satires of society - the idea of falling in love forever because of appearances, wanting a prince without knowing if he was a good/bad person?

Just wanted to add that at least one non-Asian employee of a Disney Store wishes that they would do more Mulan, too because of what she 'stands' for. I got in a conversation with her about it because I said I wish that Disney had more Mulan items for my niece.

BTW, my niece has been Mulan twice for Halloween. The 1st time, she was 2 and I found a costume just like her pink dress on Ebay - I was so excited. It was my choice. The 2nd time was 2 years ago and it was her choice.

I kept her 2yr costume, which is fortunate because my 2nd niece can wear it this year. this year she won't care and it'll save me some money (I've been buying the kids' costumes for the last 5 years.

The older one wants to be an Ice Princess (saw a beautiful costume for $68, but I might by a $15 princess dress and embellish it with glitter glue snowflakes and icicles myself) and my 8 1/2 yr old nephew wants to be a winged grim reaper.

Well, you could say it like this. Sleepy Beauty and the rest were only princesses. Who cares about that insipid stuff any more? Mulan was kick-a$$. Like Optimus Prime, the Good Transformer.

My favorite Mulan moment. When she comes home from the war and tries to present to her father a great sword which the Emperor has sent along as a gift for the father.

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/MCG/D943~Mulan-Posters.jpg

Papa Fa grabs his long-lost daughter in a big hug and the sword falls unregarded to the ground.

Actually, it is quite interesting, how those terrifying European Grimm brothers tales translated into the simpy American versions of the first half of the twentieth century. In fairly tales all the female characters are either

(a) beautiful princesses who wait helplessly to be rescued and married by male characters, or

(b) wicked witches (spinsters, one presumes.)

Note the dearth of interetsing female characters in the Lord of the Rings, for instance.

But the one truly American fairy tale is the Wizard of Oz. The little girl heroine (Dorothy) is resourceful, brave, loyal -- all those guy things -- while the male characters are supposedly brainless, heartless (but not really), cowardly, or a humbug.

Heyang, I think Jasmine is usually drawn as sort of dark complexioned.

http://disney-clipart.com/Aladdin/jasmine/Disney-Princess-Jasmine.jpg

Definitely Esmeralda (gypsy).

http://www.geocities.com/EnchantedForest/5329/images/disney/esmeralda4.gif

Best Mulan song: "I'll make a man out of you."

Trivia question: What male skater played Captain Chang opposite Michelle Kwan's Mulan in the Disney special? They did side-by-side jumps and a pretty cool pair's lift.

I assume it was Elvis Stojko as he's the only one I can remember being in a disney special with Kwan. But I am not sure...

I think Disney did a very good job of keeping true to the original fairy tales - granted the americanized version. But Walt wasn't one to shy away from the scariness that seems to be missing from most of the newer Disney films (sorry but Hades should have been way less comical. even Ursula and Gaston failed to strike fear in this little kids' heart... now Maleficent, there's a villain! or Chernabog... or Queen Grimhilde - actually the mirror is what spooked me)

I don't have a disney store, and each one is different, but I think there's generally a good portion of Mulan merchandise for American stores (online you can get quite a few items, including a very pretty costume... one of the girls I babysits got one last year). Mulan didn't have quite the same return in theaters/movie sales as some of the others (people were getting tired of the half-hearted animation that the 90s-00s have had...)


Side note - the parks are changing, though. I don't think you can find Mulan around the parks at Disney World at the moment (I assume she's all over at Hong Kong Disney, but I could be wrong), and Pocahontas' show in the Animal Kingdom park is closing (if it hasn't closed already). One of the ways that Disney knows what characters are popular in the parks and outside are people asking for it. Petitions have been started for other shows to be brought back with success, but it doesn't seem that Asian-American population really seems to be concerned about Disney's selling of the 'minority princess' (who isn't even a princess! blah! lol)

I enjoy the movies for what they are - amazingly awesome animated films (I'm talking pre-Pocahontas animation... really pre-Aladdin). The technology that Disney came up with to create the early classics is incredible, and the stories are seemless. I know as a child that's not what I focussed on, but as a young adult I can still appreciate it and no - I don't think they influenced my outlook on life. If anything I think they made me realize that daydreams are just that, and that the real magic I have to make on my own.

Disney is not about reality, or grown up issues. Walt himself said he didn't understand the need to grow up and I think his films portray that, and certainly he achieved that with his park. It's not reality, it's not made to mimic reality. Not the real Disney. I think a little girl is okay to grow up playing the princess waiting for prince charming. Imagination and daydreaming has been forced out of our children's lives. How boring a society are we becoming? I still run away to my imaginary land when I want to get away from the stress of adult life. It's a great hideaway.

like I said, wouldn't know. I didn't watch Kwan's specials... the only Disney show she was in that I watched was the Disney's Greatest Hits On Ice special where she skated to a Peter Pan Medly and skated opposite Captain Hook... maximum cheese that special.

Tonichelle said:

like I said, wouldn't know. I didn't watch Kwan's specials... the only Disney show she was in that I watched was the Disney's Greatest Hits On Ice special where she skated to a Peter Pan Medly and skated opposite Captain Hook... maximum cheese that special.

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Yeah, what a dud. Disney's Greatest hits? The Age of Not Believing from Bedknobs and broomsticks? The "Bear" Necessities from The Jungle Book? These are Disney's Greatest Hits?

What about Someday My Prince Will Come, When You Wish upon a Star, Once Upon a Dream? The whole score of Fantasia?

OK folks, the argument is over. Here are the Disney princesses.

http://motherloadshow.blogspot.com/2007/12/yeah-what-she-said.html

Disney has announced a new Princess. Here is Tiana, star of the Princess and the Frog (release date, 2009). She is a 1920's style flapper from the New Orleans jazz scene. I'm not sure what she is Princess of -- maybe the Mardi Gras?

http://bp0.blogger.com/_pY7c_d5B-nA/R5pxKTRnKJI/AAAAAAAAADk/6HENkE0dc0k/s320/d-frog-princess.jpg

Mathman said:

Yeah, what a dud. Disney's Greatest hits? The Age of Not Believing from Bedknobs and broomsticks? The "Bear" Necessities from The Jungle Book? These are Disney's Greatest Hits?

What about Someday My Prince Will Come, When You Wish upon a Star, Once Upon a Dream? The whole score of Fantasia?

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ummmmm they did all of Cinderella and Scotty skated to a Fantasia/Mickey Mouse Medley

age of not believing was not in that show...

Tiana is the princess I was referring to in my first post. The movie looks promising, but I'm not going to get over excited... Disney has lost a lot of magic with the animated films.

oh and I need to correct what I said earlier. Mulan is still at WDW, she's in China at Epcot (duh!)

Pocahontas can be met in Liberty Square in Disney Land and Disney World (Magic Kingdom)

and Meeko (from Pocahontas) can be found at the Animal Kingdom (Mushu makes appearances in Epcot and Magic Kingdom at random times of the year as well)

Tonichelle said:

ummmmm they did all of Cinderella and Scotty skated to a Fantasia/Mickey Mouse Medley

age of not believing was not in that show...

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Oh, sorry. I was thinking of the `999 Michelle kwan special.

http://heatherw.com/mk/olds/disney.htm

Supposedly they did an Internet poll and people voted for their top ten Disney songs to use in the special. Elvis Stojko and Ilya Kulik were also in it.

Mathman said:

Oh, sorry. I was thinking of the `999 Michelle kwan special.

http://heatherw.com/mk/olds/disney.htm

Supposedly they did an Internet poll and people voted for their top ten Disney songs to use in the special. Elvis Stojko and Ilya Kulik were also in it.

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That's the one I was thinking of earlier, then!

Walt Disney On Ice is what got me into skating... so I have no problem seeing cheesey disney shows lol some of them are surprisingly good.

How did Belle become a princess? Was it because she married the Beast and he was a prince? (yes folks, these are the types of questions the keep me awake at night...)

As far as Disney movies go, Alice in Wonderland is my favorite! Toy Story is my favorite Pixar movie.

yes Belle marries the Beast who at the end turns back into his Princely form (he is unofficially "Prince Adam"... not sure where the name was started) if you remember the narration done at the beginning of the movie the Prince was spoiled and selfish and turns an old beggar woman away, the woman reveals her true form as a beautiful enchantress and because of his cruel treatment she turns him into a hideous beast. And he had till his 21st birthday to show love to someone and have that love shared in return.


and yes, I have no life and I live in Disney movies.

I think it is more a factor of what the stores in the Denver area stock form the way it sounds. Toni your points are completely valid, but TO valid

Cannot just run away with a Commanding generals son and expect to be considered a princess - for all truest definitions.

It was extremely coincidental they played a Mandarin version of Mulan the same night I posted the thread. It was a different story DRAMATICALLY. From the very start Mulan's Father knows about the fact she will go in his place. She has 3 siblings. TWO younger brothers (less than 10 years old). The list goes on. Mulan is more similar in Disney and the Cantonese depiction.
I hate to break it to anyone but NO little red lizards and crickets assisted Mulan .

Heyang, Thanks, I will start looking on Ebay

being a proud Disney fanatic I can't help but go a little more than fangirly. I grew up on the classic Disney... it's probably the only girly thing I was into (Disney Princesses) and even then I didn't like the little mermaid (which came to video around my 5th bday lol)

Disney stores are about the only place you'll be lucky to find Mulan stuff, it's true. Walmart and other chains like it carry the basic three/four princesses = Belle, Cindy, Snow, Aurora as a collection and Ariel seems to get her own line. (which is annoying for reason stated above lol)

and as I said before not all Disney stores are the same. For instance there's one in... either Portland or Seattle that is filled with all sorts of the minor films stuff along with the popular. However, when I went to the mall of America it was Pirates and Enchanted and Pooh Bear and Tink. Most of the Disney stores are not run by Disney and more and more are closing (Alaska used to have one)... it's sad. Online is the way to go - disneyshopping.com or ebay is your best bet.

and yeah, kinda figured Mushu and Cricky weren't in the real story. Just like Meeko, Percy, and Flit in Pocahontas weren't around. And it also doesn't surprise me that they don't follow the story very accurately. The newer Disney doesn't seem to care lol

Tonichelle said:

and yeah, kinda figured Mushu and Cricky weren't in the real story.

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I was trying to be witty

I know you are a Disney fan, but I think your grasp of reality is far better than believing little red dragons accompanied the legend.

Now if anyone thinks Phil is acutely a "cow" - as indicted by Mushu I would than be slightly concerned.

And it sounds like you might appreciate this, all of our baby stuff - so far - is classic Pooh and D princesses.

Pooh Bear is highly overrated it should be all about Eeyore!

"Dishonor on you, dishonor on your cow!"