2015 Skate America Ladies SP Oct 23

kwanatic · Oct 24, 2015

SaraM said:
she jumps with her arms and neck.. scary technique...

Agreed. Evgenia's jumps are solid for right now but based on her technique, I'm worried she's going to have some issues down the road. It works for her for now but once she gets taller and fills out, she may end up in the same boat Julia is in...but for now, she's looking like the one to beat at this competition.

I think she's a lovely skater. She's been a favorite of mine for the past two years, even when people were kinda trashing her as the weakest of this new Russian bunch (Sakhanovich, Proklova, Sotskova). It was great to see her improve last year and find her consistency and I'm happy to see her debut well here. I still think her score was too high but I don't disagree with her placement. She's another rock-solid skater when it comes to nerves and competitiveness so I'm fairly certain she has this one in the bag.

tsuyoboogie · Oct 24, 2015

I'm new and quite ignorant to the technical aspects of this sport. What I like in a skaters performance is just purely based on if they somehow managed to "wow" me. I read many posts claiming that the Satoko's low and prerotated of jumps are affecting her PCS. My question is, if this is the case, then why don't the judges just give her a -GOE on all of her jumps. Is it because she hits too many bullet points when she cleanly lands them so they can't justify a -GOE? I guess I can understand P/E and maybe SS (big maybe) but what does tiny, questionable jumps have to do with TR, CH, and IN. Please someone educate me.

Sorry if this is off topic for this thread...

samkrut@mail.ru · Oct 24, 2015

tsuyoboogie said:
I'm new and quite ignorant to the technical aspects of this sport. What I like in a skaters performance is just purely based on if they somehow managed to "wow" me. I read many posts claiming that the Satoko's low and prerotated of jumps are affecting her PCS. My question is, if this is the case, then why don't the judges just give her a -GOE on all of her jumps. Is it because she hits too many bullet points when she cleanly lands them so they can't justify a -GOE? I guess I can understand P/E and maybe SS (big maybe) but what does tiny, questionable jumps have to do with TR, CH, and IN. Please someone educate me.

Sorry if this is off topic for this thread...

If you are serious asking this, the first question is who says that Satoko has low PCS? 32 has never been considered low. In the absense of Mao the queen of pcs is Gracie and she got 33. So what is this fuzz about?

OS · Oct 24, 2015

tsuyoboogie said:
I'm new and quite ignorant to the technical aspects of this sport. What I like in a skaters performance is just purely based on if they somehow managed to "wow" me. I read many posts claiming that the Satoko's low and prerotated of jumps are affecting her PCS. My question is, if this is the case, then why don't the judges just give her a -GOE on all of her jumps. Is it because she hits too many bullet points when she cleanly lands them so they can't justify a -GOE? I guess I can understand P/E and maybe SS (big maybe) but what does tiny, questionable jumps have to do with TR, CH, and IN. Please someone educate me.

Sorry if this is off topic for this thread...

It is a valid question. GOE has sort of become the new PCS now. I don't understand how Satoko's 3lz3t is only 0.9 different from Gracies. We are talking about THE smallest 3lz3t (of ALL TIME?) vs one of the best and biggest 3lz3t in the world. Only 0.9 difference separate them which works approx 7% of the score advantage of that element which is practically negligible.

Clearly quality is really undervalued for difficult combos, and 3lz3t is under valued in general consider it got beat by 3f3t in the 2nd half mark easily. May be everyone should start to train their combo in the 2nd half right now

It will be hilarious to see what people do in the first half, longest jump set up ever with tons of creative time consuming spins.

Rissa · Oct 24, 2015

os168 said:
Clearly quality is really undervalued for difficult combos, and 3lz3t is under valued in general consider it got beat by 3f3t in the 2nd half mark easily. May be everyone should start to train their combo in the 2nd half right now

Maybe they should. Half of the men have been doing it and somehow it's never been a reason for ridicule.

KwanIsALegend · Oct 24, 2015

I am trying to get into Gracie's skating ....trying. I don't know what is missing for me.
On a petty side note, her eyebrows drive me bonkers!! My husband said they make her look clownish.

shine · Oct 24, 2015

Moria Polonius said:
I don't understand why ladies SP? Does it make any more sense in Men's?

If it were so easy to jump all the jumps in the second half, everybody would backload their short. Yet they don't.

? I didn't say ladies SP, i said SP, as in SP in general.

Maybe a lot of people don't backlaod their SP's because some of them actually care about spreading out the elements like you are supposed to?

My argument is that giving bonus points to jumps done in the FS makes sense to me, because not only should we reward skaters for having a balanced program, doing jumps in the second half is also physically harder on tired legs than doing them in the 1st half. However, the entire length of an SP is just a little longer than the length of half an FS, so rewarding jumps in the second half of an SP is kind of pointless to me. Also, if the goal is to have more balanced programs, if we end up with a situation like Medvedeva who just backloads like crazy, then doesn't it totally defeat the purpose?

tsuyoboogie · Oct 25, 2015

[email protected] said:
If you are serious asking this, the first question is who says that Satoko has low PCS? 32 has never been considered low. In the absense of Mao the queen of pcs is Gracie and she got 33. So what is this fuzz about?

Of course I was serious. Was my newbie question that ridiculous? I think you misunderstand. I never said that anyone thought Satoko's PCS were low. Anyway, I realize that I myself may have misinterpreted some of the posts I was referring to. So nevermind... thank you anyway

MsLiinaLii · Oct 25, 2015

About the question concerning puberty and growth. Evgenia might not fill out and grow as many of you think. Just based on my own experience(I am a dancer), my body and height have not really changed since I was 15 years old. And, honestly, I look younger than half of my friends who are 16 now and I am 21...
Evgenia is turning 16 in just 3 weeks...

moriel · Oct 25, 2015

shine said:
? I didn't say ladies SP, i said SP, as in SP in general.

Maybe a lot of people don't backlaod their SP's because some of them actually care about spreading out the elements like you are supposed to?

My argument is that giving bonus points to jumps done in the FS makes sense to me, because not only should we reward skaters for having a balanced program, doing jumps in the second half is also physically harder on tired legs than doing them in the 1st half. However, the entire length of an SP is just a little longer than the length of half an FS, so rewarding jumps in the second half of an SP is kind of pointless to me. Also, if the goal is to have more balanced programs, if we end up with a situation like Medvedeva who just backloads like crazy, then doesn't it totally defeat the purpose?

I don't really see the big deal with backloading. If the judges do not like it, they can always punish it in PCs.
As for SP specifics, we can see it in a different way: if SP is short, backloading is not a big deal, because it is short anyways and doesn't matter where the jumps are. So why not reward it? If there is no difference, it shall not even affect the choro scores, and all skaters should just backload.

tulosai · Oct 25, 2015

I think a lot of people willfully ignore the fact that is it HARD to backload, even a short program. If it was easy, all the skaters would do it to maximize points. The reason the current COP rewards backloading is quite simply that it IS much harder to do all of your jumps at the end than at the beginning. If it wasn't, why isn't everyone doing it? Someone will probably say because other skaters value choreo blah blah blah but that is just not true, which we know for two reasons:

1. Skaters who do backload are blatantly NOT punished for choreo
2. It's obvious skaters do not care at all if other things are ugly, silly, and so on- they maximize points however they can. Backloading is no different. If more skaters could do it and still put out consistent programs they would.

2015 Skate America Ladies SP Oct 23

kwanatic

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tsuyoboogie

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Medalist

OS

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Rissa

KwanIsALegend

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shine

tsuyoboogie

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MsLiinaLii

moriel

tulosai

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