2018-19 Russian Men's figure skating

rachno2 · Mar 21, 2019

I mean, it was always going to be a lottery with these three (with any three Russian men, let’s be honest). I imagine Samarin was nervous going in as Russian no 1 at his first Worlds, especially after the disappointing result at Universiade. I feel for him.

Lazukin’s short has been solid all season, and I’m glad he did well here. He was in one of the first groups, and doesn’t have much of an international reputation, so that’s why his PCS was low. If anything is to be learned here, it’s that sending somebody in the last warmup group is always smart when there are no stable alternatives.

Hopefully skating in earlier groups will take some of the pressure off. Two spots is doable, though neither Lazukin nor Kolyada have been successful with their free programs lately. It’s too bad Samarin is so low in the rankings, because he has the best chance of skating a solid free.

gmyers · Mar 21, 2019

But was Samarin also nervous At universiade? Why would he be so nervous there? He’s been really really bad since almost winning euros and the totally outraged response to his skating. Maybe he feels his season is over?!? That he peaked at euros and can’t be that “good” again? Or since everyone agrees he really wasn’t good at euros there’s no reason to try anymore?

NAOTMAA · Mar 21, 2019

Even if they skate the lights out in the free it won't make any difference for next season. It will be just as messy as this one was.

Aliev is probably thanking God that despite the disaster of this season he's somehow still in the mix for future world teams. And Voronov despite being out with injury won't have to worry about being completely forgotten or replaced because no one stood up to the plate while he was out. I think unless his body really can't take it anymore Kovtun retiring is a mistake. He's still in the game but I guess mentally he's had it.

vorravorra · Mar 21, 2019

gmyers said:
But was Samarin also nervous At universiade? Why would he be so nervous there? He’s been really really bad since almost winning euros and the totally outraged response to his skating. Maybe he feels his season is over?!? That he peaked at euros and can’t be that “good” again? Or since everyone agrees he really wasn’t good at euros there’s no reason to try anymore?

Samarin and his coach know that his strength is in jumping not PCS, that's why he is taking on what appears to be too much (he hasn't had much success with a two-quad SP this season, one could hardly expect a brilliant one with both 4Lz and 4F).

As for his mental state I had a bad feeling the second I laid eyes on him in the warmup. He had clearly put way too much pressure on himself. None of the Russian guys skate well when they feel the weight of the world rests on their shoulders. Unfortunately, the entire atmosphere in Russia is highly conducive to this.

Tolstoj · Mar 21, 2019

Edwin said:
Yes, unfortunately, the RUS men seem to lack lustre in skating this World Championships.

If FFKKR looses one or more of it's GP spots, what will the consequences be regarding to financing and motivating the present skaters and the young ones waiting to take over?

PS: who is this "Lyosha", Mishin is always calling to in the K&C?

More like poor planning from the federation, usual insane push for Tarasova pupils which brought disadvantages to other more talented skaters.

It's no secret Kolyada had to skate while injured at Nationals to keep his spot and that is insane considering he achieved more than CSKA skaters, his spot should have not been questioned given the weak field, they should have let him rest for Worlds.

Looking forward i think Russia with the Men is very much in the waiting room for Daniil Samsonov because they will try to push Danielian the same way they did with Kovtun and Samarin but CSKA is also making the same mistakes again, not working on the consistency.

rachno2 · Mar 21, 2019

To be fair, Samarin did have a better GP season than Kolyada. You can argue he has been receiving unfair PCS this season, but he has been landing his jumps more often than Misha, and he of course had a great showing at Europeans. I’m not a fan of his skating, but I think he’s a hard worker and deserves some credit. Having him and Kovtun compete at Universiade was a huge mistake imo.

Edwin · Mar 21, 2019

Tolstoj said:
More like poor planning from the federation, usual insane push for Tarasova pupils which brought disadvantages to other more talented skaters.

It's no secret Kolyada had to skate while injured at Nationals to keep his spot and that is insane considering he achieved more than CSKA skaters, his spot should have not been questioned given the weak field, they should have let him rest for Worlds.

Looking forward i think Russia with the Men is very much in the waiting room for Daniil Samsonov because they will try to push Danielian the same way they did with Kovtun and Samarin but CSKA is also making the same mistakes again, not working on the consistency.

Waiting for Samsonov to turn senior and be Worlds eligible? Or him being eligible for Junior GP? We'll have to wait for a couple of years ...
It will be interesting to see how FFKKR deals with Khrustalniy's Three Awesome Aces next senior season in the women. Perhaps #TeamTutberidze's handling of those three girls will give us an indication how they will handle their young male skaters?
Will #TeamTutberidze at the instigation of FFKKR exploit their young senior skaters to the max while they last, or will they deploy them a little defensively to make them last longer? Given how #TeamTutberidze seems to pace Alina Zagitova, it seems to me they have a long term goal with their skaters. However, many others on this board have a different opinion of Khrustalniy's head of training staff that seems more emotionally coloured than rational.

On another note, will Khrustalniy turn out to be a powerhouse rink in male figure skating even? They might need/want to add another highly experienced trainer of male skaters to their ranks I think.

No doubt, at the moment there is considerably more pressure on the Russian men to perform in the light of the strong male competition from Northern America and Asia continents, not forgetting a few Europeans. Though this World Championships is not lost yet, the Russian men are not likely to play any role for the medal rostrum.

Orlov · Mar 21, 2019

Edwin said:
Yes, unfortunately, the RUS men seem to lack lustre in skating this World Championships.

If FFKKR looses one or more of it's GP spots, what will the consequences be regarding to financing and motivating the present skaters and the young ones waiting to take over?

PS: who is this "Lyosha", Mishin is always calling to in the K&C?

Нis little grandson

We always rejoice and laugh in the comments on fso-forum "Alyoshik! Alyoshik!" I love this tradition!

gmyers · Mar 21, 2019

vorravorra said:
Samarin and his coach know that his strength is in jumping not PCS, that's why he is taking on what appears to be too much (he hasn't had much success with a two-quad SP this season, one could hardly expect a brilliant one with both 4Lz and 4F).

As for his mental state I had a bad feeling the second I laid eyes on him in the warmup. He had clearly put way too much pressure on himself. None of the Russian guys skate well when they feel the weight of the world rests on their shoulders. Unfortunately, the entire atmosphere in Russia is highly conducive to this.

Everyone has strengths and weaknesses but there is no doubt that Samarin does do programs! He does do choreography. He does do spins and step sequences. He doesn’t leave them out. He even gets level 4’s! So to have people say he doesn’t do programs or doest work on spins and steps is wrong

Tolstoj · Mar 21, 2019

Edwin said:
Waiting for Samsonov to turn senior and be Worlds eligible? Or him being eligible for Junior GP? We'll have to wait for a couple of years ...
It will be interesting to see how FFKKR deals with Khrustalniy's Three Awesome Aces next senior season in the women. Perhaps #TeamTutberidze's handling of those three girls will give us an indication how they will handle their young male skaters?
Will #TeamTutberidze at the instigation of FFKKR exploit their young senior skaters to the max while they last, or will they deploy them a little defensively to make them last longer? Given how #TeamTutberidze seems to pace Alina Zagitova, it seems to me they have a long term goal with their skaters. However, many others on this board have a different opinion of Khrustalniy's head of training staff that seems more emotionally coloured than rational.

On another note, will Khrustalniy turn out to be a powerhouse rink in male figure skating even? They might need/want to add another highly experienced trainer of male skaters to their ranks I think.

No doubt, at the moment there is considerably more pressure on the Russian men to perform in the light of the strong male competition from Northern America and Asia continents, not forgetting a few Europeans. Though this World Championships is not lost yet, the Russian men are not likely to play any role for the medal rostrum.

I guess both, Daniil Samsonov will be eligible for 2022 Olympics even though he will only be 16, but that's why he's already landing quads. My prediction is that they will push him in seniors sooner in the Olympic season or even the previous one depending on what he achieved in juniors, and how many quads he will have by then. To be fair Canada is doing the exact same thing with Gogolev which is a year older.

The same team will work with male skaters: they did it for years with Pitkeev, Erokhov, Kvitelashvili and others, FFKKR (or at least enough influential people there) fully support Eteri's team because of the results she brought, while like i said Russia's plan B seems to be Danielian despite he's already very inconsistent.

As for the three girls, i wouldn't be surprised if they force one of the three to leave for whatever reason. (Kostornaya? idk)

coldblueeyes · Mar 21, 2019

The big question is how Daniil will reach his senior years. The kind of pressure the Fed has been putting on its male skaters has produced almost none of the expected results, which is not surprising, because there are just a different set of technical standards the man have to reach compared to the ladies, and simply there is no quad prodigy among the russian guys.

On another note, I was never in favor of Misha moving to Lambiel (if the rumors that he was denied the move are true) but the Fed could have at least given him the chance of having a fair trial with another coach, instead of letting the figure skating voices destroy him publicly--I'm surprised with Averbukh's comments these past days, but that's a bit too little too late. Also, Kolyada had almost no rest in the off season after the Olympics he had, and this season him and his team made a series of mistakes in his preparation, which culminated in what happened at Nats. I don't think he'd recover well enough from that, and it's clear he still is not in the right place to compete. It's also clear that at no point the Fed stepped up and said 'enough!' even if it was to protect his integrity. But when it's time to press for quads and results, they're always there.

vorravorra · Mar 22, 2019

Tolstoj said:
I guess both, Daniil Samsonov will be eligible for 2022 Olympics even though he will only be 16, but that's why he's already landing quads. My prediction is that they will push him in seniors sooner in the Olympic season or even the previous one depending on what he achieved in juniors, and how many quads he will have by then. To be fair Canada is doing the exact same thing with Gogolev which is a year older.

The same team will work with male skaters: they did it for years with Pitkeev, Erokhov, Kvitelashvili and others, FFKKR (or at least enough influential people there) fully support Eteri's team because of the results she brought, while like i said Russia's plan B seems to be Danielian despite he's already very inconsistent.

As for the three girls, i wouldn't be surprised if they force one of the three to leave for whatever reason. (Kostornaya? idk)

Samsonov is not eligible for seniors in the season before the Olympics.

Also, Kolyada wasn't injured at Nationals, he'd just had surgery for sinusitis.

anonymoose_au · Mar 22, 2019

I was very impressed by Andrei Lazukin yesterday! He was called up at the last minute and did an excellent job

Good work!

Shame about Samarin and Mikhail though, hope they can do better tomorrow!

starla16 · Mar 22, 2019

Samsonov is the only savior in russian mens skating. They might even end up with 1 spot by tomorrow ?

starla16 · Mar 22, 2019

vorravorra said:
Samsonov is not eligible for seniors in the season before the Olympics.

Also, Kolyada wasn't injured at Nationals, he'd just had surgery for sinusitis.

so was Zagitova, also Samsonov is the only russian that can land multiple type of quads.

coldblueeyes · Mar 22, 2019

Yeah, let's all sit while twiddling our thumbs and wait for child prodigy number #4583 to turn senior. Why work with the guys that we have, right? Let them break themselves in pieces just for fun, because it's already a done deal that the kid will become a world champion. Like all the others before him.

:bang:

vorravorra · Mar 22, 2019

starla16 said:
so was Zagitova, also Samsonov is the only russian that can land multiple type of quads.

Huh? Samarin?
Men don't win everything in their first senior year, it isn't the ladies. And it's not like judges haven't seen multiple types of quads before, once again, it's not the ladies.

coldblueeyes · Mar 22, 2019

vorravorra said:
Huh? Samarin?
Men don't win everything in their first senior year, it isn't the ladies. And it's not like judges haven't seen multiple types of quads before, once again, it's not the ladies.

How many quads Boyang was landing before he even got the chance to win something? Also, case in point for Vincent and even Morisi. And also Gogolev in juniors.

Hailing someone as the next best hope is nothing new in Russia, they've been doing that ever since Plushenko retired the first time. And in the wake of his return they ignored other sktaers with more potential, and then proceeded to simply destroy their careers--starting with Kovtun himself, but also Gachinski and Pitkeev. I've said this before, but I'd hate to see the talent that is Samsonov to go to waste. Let's remember that Erokhov also had multiple quads, but they're not there at all anymore. And neither is he.

vorravorra · Mar 22, 2019

gmyers said:
Everyone has strengths and weaknesses but there is no doubt that Samarin does do programs! He does do choreography. He does do spins and step sequences. He doesn’t leave them out. He even gets level 4’s! So to have people say he doesn’t do programs or doest work on spins and steps is wrong

He definitely works on spins, steps and choreography. And he is a hard worker. But in terms of PCS, either something was missed in his earlier training or he just lacks sufficient talent in the area (although oddly enough he actually looked better in juniors PCS-wise than he does now). He does have a certain charisma though that appeals to some people. But he can't afford jump mistakes like in the SP because he doesn't have enough of everything else to lift him up in the standings.

vorravorra · Mar 22, 2019

coldblueeyes said:
How many quads Boyang was landing before he even got the chance to win something? Also, case in point for Vincent and even Morisi. And also Gogolev in juniors.

Hailing someone as the next best hope is nothing new in Russia, they've been doing that ever since Plushenko retired the first time. And in the wake of his return they ignored other sktaers with more potential, and then proceeded to simply destroy their careers--starting with Kovtun himself, but also Gachinski and Pitkeev. I've said this before, but I'd hate to see the talent that is Samsonov to go to waste. Let's remember that Erokhov also had multiple quads, but they're not there at all anymore. And neither is he.

He is Moris. Nobody calls him Morisi except the Georgian Fed on paper because of the rules of the language which I am not even sure Moris speaks since he is from Moscow. And Moris isn't even a Georgian name.

2018-19 Russian Men's figure skating

rachno2

gmyers

NAOTMAA

vorravorra

Tolstoj

rachno2

Edwin

СделаноВХрустальном!

Orlov

gmyers

Tolstoj

coldblueeyes

vorravorra

anonymoose_au

Insert weird opinion here

starla16

starla16

coldblueeyes

vorravorra

coldblueeyes

vorravorra

vorravorra

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