2023-2024 Russian Nationals Jumping Championships

[AlexBreeze]

It looks like Mark has created an iconic victory move

 

[Skating91]

Big smile on Elena's face is great to see. The tears were embarrassment as much as pain. It's a completely new experience for her all those fans and expectations from the team, other people, Bazyluk has just gone out and given the greatest jumping performance ever seen and this is her rival.

She will be stronger for that experience. It's invaluable. Two days in a row she fell, started crying, then went back out and attempted another jump. You can't gain that kind of mental and physical toughness at the training rink.

 

[Mariott]

I give her 2 or 3 more years in top 3 in Russia, because the age rule change keeps the next gen away from her for that long. Longevity in Russia does not depend on the skater but on the field, unlike other coutries.

In Russia, sportsmen are allowed to participate in adult championships if they turned 14 on 01.07. of the current year.
If Bazyliuk will be fine, she can compete in the adult championships in a season.
However, Petrosian already has the title of Russian champion and winner of the Grand Prix final, this is the maximum that can be counted on at the moment. Perhaps she will be a two-time winner, which is also good - for the current situation.

 

[yume]

I mean, look at Malinina's career. Look at Gubanova. That, and more, could have been Petrosyan's.

Gubanova won worlds? Or GPF? Because you said Petrosyan would be worlds champion.

Euros always have been a low level comp. At least theses last 15 years. Russians were the tree that was hidding the forest. So, good for her for winning that but it isn't like it was especially difficult.

 

[AlexBreeze]

In Russia, sportsmen are allowed to participate in adult championships if they turned 14 on 01.07. of the current year.

It's already 15 this season and 16 next season

 

[Mariott]

Actually, she growing on me.
She got lambasted on sportsru when she supported Armenia in conflict against Azerbaijan year ago, but it turned my head - 15yo girl has courage to take a stance on political issue for her second homeland (her grandparents still live there). Few months ago she visited Armenia, gave nice exhibiltion and provided master class for local young skaters.
Other Russian skaters with non-Russian roots generally avoid accentuating it.

For the 2020-2021 season, she took the "Artsakh" melody for free skating. This music always reminds me of Adelia, although other athletes have also touched upon it, such as Maxim Badavi.

 

[Skating91]

Without X-ray? In 10 seconds they looked at her over the boards? She comes to the coach in pain, interrupting performance. In regular competition it's -5. This is just a show. Both teams win something. Everyone is having fun. Why the heck risk the athlete's health, why gaslight her that she's just a crybaby? What for? Ignoring injuries is a wrong approach, because it only leads to worse injuries, and in figure skating the worse injuries are life altering. The coach's actions make zero sense, totally unnecessary and, like, pathological. The most important thing is to teach the athlets when it is necessary to stop the performance, and that’s not it.

The doctor assessed her arm, squeezed and pressed the arm, could see it wasn't broken otherwise she would have been in real agony when testing it, offered her spray, the coach asked if she can finish and she did.

Well done. She learned some resilience, dealing with shock, emotional and physical pain. I'm sure there will be a bruise but skaters have bruises all over them it's the nature of the sport. It's highly dangerous and traumatic.

I have no issue with watching juniors, but personally I would just make all senior competition 18+ and ban the broadcasting of junior competitions (to protect the children from the cyberbullies that lurk and whose primary interest in the sport is to bully children).

 

[lariko]

Gubanova won worlds? Or GPF? Because you said Petrosyan would be worlds champion.

Euros always have been a low level comp. At least theses last 15 years. Russians were the tree that was hidding the forest. So, good for her for winning that but it isn't like it was especially difficult.

I said 'that and more', meaning that Petrosyan could have achieved more, I.e. title of the World Champion.

 

[Skating91]

And to think she could have been the first world champion for Armenia, making history and amazing the world, making her community proud and basking in their love. Sad, sad... if only RusFed had the athlets' interests at heart, Petrosyan might have amounted to something actually great. Now, she's second to a 12 yo in a jumping tournament.... hurray?

Being the best senior on earth is not an achievement? If she skated for Armenia the cyberbullies would hate her. They would diminish all her achievements, spread nasty baseless rumours about how she achieved her success.

 

[Mariott]

I have no issue with watching juniors, but personally I would just make all senior competition 18+ and ban the broadcasting of junior competitions (to protect the children from the cyberbullies that lurk and whose primary interest in the sport is to bully children).

Hey, junior competitions are my main job, if they ban broadcasts, who am I going to follow? Let's not go to extremes.
Nowadays, even 7-9 year old sportsmen in Russia have their own circle of fans, apart from happy parents. Of course, this is a plus for their career, when they grow up, they will already have a fanbase. There is also the other side of the coin. Of course, many children outside of sports are subjected to cyberbully or indecent attention from certain adults. Kids in a popular sport have much higher risks. It is imperative to prepare them for this and teach them what to do in such cases.

 

[Mathematician]

There's always been someone better than her at one aspect whether jumps, spins, gliding, musicality, performance components but that is starting to change because she's one of the only one's left standing. She's always been overshadowed up until now.

Yes but were already post-Nats. Almost an entire season in which she is the best at all categories, but still she is ignored. You could say this is because its a weak season and it doesnt matter, but then why does everyone love Muravieva all of a sudden? She was always lovely but nobody cared about her, now people are discovering her all of a sudden but Petrosian gained almost zero fans. Its like people latched onto Mura just for the use to ignore Petrosian.

 

[Skating91]

She wouldn't get the same PCS and GOEs with Armenia.

Her free skate base value is still 20 points higher than the next best in the world (I think 25 more than the world champion), so there is a lot of margin there for her to work with.

 

[lariko]

Well done. She learned some resilience, dealing with shock, emotional and physical pain. I'm sure there will be a bruise but skaters have bruises all over them it's the nature of the sport. It's highly dangerous and traumatic.

What she learned is that she should ignore injury. That is punishment for doing the right thing. As in, it is the right thing to undertsand what a body can and cannot do. The attitude of hoping to luck out through pain is what's insanely dangerous, because ignoring the body’s feedback leads only to worse trauma, because a person believes someting external, versus real thing. They can't protect themselves becayse they simply have no idea what's real, what's not. An athlete first and foremost needs to know if and when their body is capable or not, and that’s the skill that is being actively supressed here, in this episode, and for what? Nothing was at stake.

 

[lariko]

Being the best senior on earth is not an achievement? If she skated for Armenia the cyberbullies would hate her. They would diminish all her achievements, spread nasty baseless rumours about how she achieved her success.

The best senior woman is Sakamoto until Petrosyan competes against her. It's how it is decided, not by what someone says on the net. What someone says on the net is literally nothing.

Petrosyan doesn't compete at the World's, so she is what she is. A girl who is competing on a national level only since juniors. If some haters can deter her from competing, that's hardly a proof of a champion's character. Then, well, maybe it's for the best that she stays local.

Armenia has a huge world diaspora btw, so the support for her would have been rather loud and proud, plus most Russians living abroad cheer everyone who got out, since they reperesnt us. And we sure want to be represented.

Obviously, there are always people not willing do what it takes to win it all, so there is no shame in being afraid, but she could have done way better for herself if she decided differently. And, obviously, if Rusfed was actually pro-atheletes, not against them.

 

[Skatelife]

Yes but were already post-Nats. Almost an entire season in which she is the best at all categories, but still she is ignored. You could say this is because its a weak season and it doesnt matter, but then why does everyone love Muravieva all of a sudden? She was always lovely but nobody cared about her, now people are discovering her all of a sudden but Petrosian gained almost zero fans. Its like people latched onto Mura just for the use to ignore Petrosian.

People tend to root for the underdogs, If Sofía were the Russian dominant lady, I'm sure she would have many haters. Any flaw would be magnified

 

[yume]

I'm going to be honest I see absolutely zero similarity between Khromykh and Petrosian. I'm not sure I understand.

Because she doesnt have an exciting personality or what? I think her skating significantly compensates for that compared to Khromykh.

I meant by that:

1. They don't really stand out. No exceptional jumps (i'm not talking about difficulty but the way the jumps look). Usacheva with her ripponless triples was praised more than Khromykh who was attempting quads. Mura's jumps (and others) get more praise. No exceptionnal artistry. They are good but are not always called the best. For example, Mura receives more praise than Petrosyan.

2. They were overshadowed by their teammates of the same gen. Khromykh was in the shadow of Valieva and Usacheva, Petrosyan was in the shadow of Akateva, Zhilina, Mura, Samodelkina when they were in juniors. She was not getting better results nor was talked about as much as the others. After the ban, she was loosing to Akateva, Mura and even Valieva who is older (one year, but it changes everything in Russia).

3. She isn't ultra dominating. It looks like she became the top girl by default because others are struggling with injuries, consistency.

The result of all of that is that she isn't the it girl that everyone is talking about. Despite being the nats champ. Like Khromykh, she was not the one whose success was the most anticipated. There was not high expectations. She just ended better than Khromykh.

 

[yume]

Her free skate base value is still 20 points higher than the next best in the world (I think 25 more than the world champion), so there is a lot of margin there for her to work with.

There is difference between BV and final TES. Despite her advantage of 20 points, the TES gap can be 10 points at the end. Thanks to the +4s/+5s that judges can make rain on the skater with lower BV, and the +1s/+2s that they can give to the skater with high BV.
A gap that can be closed with high PCS.

Mao vs Yuna is a very good example of how having high GOEs was better than having high BV. Or even Hendrickx i guess, since she doesn't jump 3lo and always have 6 triples.

 

[icewhite]

Hey, junior competitions are my main job, if they ban broadcasts, who am I going to follow? Let's not go to extremes.
Nowadays, even 7-9 year old sportsmen in Russia have their own circle of fans, apart from happy parents. Of course, this is a plus for their career, when they grow up, they will already have a fanbase. There is also the other side of the coin. Of course, many children outside of sports are subjected to cyberbully or indecent attention from certain adults. Kids in a popular sport have much higher risks. It is imperative to prepare them for this and teach them what to do in such cases.

7-9 year olds should not have "fans" etc., that's my stance, whether it's through tiktok dance videos or being in movies or doing figure skating or whatever. They should grow up among friends and family, people who have real instead of parasocial relations with them and care about them on a much more real and deeper level. They also should not be in the limelight. Sometimes it's inevitable, but I don't see any good in it.

 

[Jumping_Bean]

Idk, I think Muravieva is criticised her fair share too, whenever she gives any interviews there are always a lot of negative/snarky comments under them. With Adeliia, it seems like she doesn't get a lot of attention, but what she gets is usually positive (at least in Russian comment sections). It's almost like there's a disconnect between Russian and international fans when it comes to both Sofia and Adeliia, beyond just how much attention they get.

What I think also makes a difference is that Muravieva doesn't "have" to "share" the limelight with another skater in the same coaching camp. Even though this should not be the case, and all skaters should be seen for who they are, there's definitely a lot of "coaching cult" in both Sofia and Adeliia's situation.
Muravieva gets support from her own fans, from Plushenko fans (as she's the only currently competitive skater he trains at the moment) and simply from people who dislike Tutberidze because she's the only one who can currently realistically even come close to beating someone like Adeliia.
Adeliia on her part has her own fans and Tutberidze fans, but fans that are purely there for Tutberidze's success have options and will "jump" from one skater to the next depending on who does the best at the moment. In contrast to for example Alina or Anna, or even Kamila, Adeliia hasn't yet had the opportunity to set herself apart enough from some of her contemporaries to keep herself consistently in the favour even when she isn't the strongest skater on the block.

 

[icewhite]

I think her loyalty is with the people in her life, not with genetics or any country. Not everyone is running for acceptance of a crowd who will forget you 1 month after your retirement anyways. Its all fake.


Skating skills in what sense? Almost all Russians struggle with the Japanese sense of SS but thats the tradeoff for their speed and tech. Do you think Muravieva's programs this season have been particularly mature and profound compared to Petrosian's FS? Is it just the precision and depth of her edges?

I recall now that I think you were the one who said you dont care as much about ladies' skating so I understand.

I agree that Adeliia's personality is still vague, all Eteri girls seem extremely private like they are specifically trained for it. Except Akateva, she is very open and likeable - probably the most alongside Sintsyna. I think this is the main reason everybody just disregards Adeliia despite her skating.

You are right, I don't care that much about most female figure skaters, mostly because I don't like the typical feminine programs and think that in general there is not enough difference in programs. Sometimes someone stands out to me though or I like their programs or personality or whatever.
Most of the Japanese skaters are super fast, so if you say that, it irritates me a bit. (They also sometimes have rather high bvs, there are some who have an (unstable) 3A.)
I'm not a fan of Muravieva's programs, although I find them a bit on the better side. I think she has better edges than most female Russian skaters, but most of all she has a certain something in her movements and gestures, a bit in the direction of Kostornaya. Her jumps also look nice and not forced to me. And then her body looks like it might not undergo any major changes anymore, so I think she might be close to what she looks like as an adult skater, but that's of course just guesswork.
I am also convinced that having a 3A but no quads is usually a sign of a rather good technique, while having quads but no 3A is very odd and often stems from "cheated" technique or simply speed of rotation due to lightness. I'm always sceptical about that. No idea if Petrosyan will be able to recover her 3A, but that's just why in my pretty amateur view Muravieva looks indeed very good for the future.