2012 Cup of Russia Free Dance

[bramweld]

I actually like both programs from I/K. The SD is in a better shape than the FD. The FD is a bit raw now I believe in part because of her injury. It has a nice fresh light feel to it. I'll curious to see how it develops over the season. If they're going to experiment why not this year. All the best to them. As per the rivalry with BS I say that's a distraction. The real big picture is the depth of russian ice dance that will erupt soon with S/Z, St/Bu, B/S and I/K..who knows I might be missing a few others. All the best to them I just like ice dancing, it's my favourite discipline.

 

[Ice Diva]

I have seen so little skating this season - schedule not permitting to watch much. But, I did want to say that I really agree with you here! Last year, I think because it was Tessa's first year supposedly pain free and healthy, I just rooted for V/M the whole season even though I didn't love their FD music - I 'got it' and appreciated it a lot intellectually, but didn't feel it emotionally the way they seemed too (and perhaps other fans did). It wasn't until after worlds that I really let myself re-watch D/W's FD, which I did love all season. And after the season, I just felt so strongly that their FD was just simply the best and I do wish in hindsight that they had won Worlds with it (and this is just IMHO, not trying to start a fight....just saying that i really, really loved it).

That said, and repeating that I have hardly watched any skating this season, I have rewatched V/M's Carmen from Skate Canada and Russia a number of times and I am just so, so, so taken in by it. It is remarkable - again, imho.

I'm with you. When I saw last season's programs I was immediately more taken with D/W Die Fledermaus and wasn't sure about V/M's program at all. However, it seemed as the season progressed, D/W's program stayed the same & appeared a little frantic & sloppy at times, while V/M's program continued to evolve & become a masterpiece. As for people saying that the Shibs & D/W are being "given" programs/music inferior to V/M - I think that's erroneous. No team is given music -- its a collaboration between coach & team. In a recent D/W interview Meryl said she has always wanted to skate to Notre Dame & it will no doubt improve a great deal. The Shibs: I love their program & their clean lines, edges but the field is very deep so to get noticed they are going to have to really up the chemistry, difficulty. Sometimes IMHO they look a little junior still. Maybe he's still injured a little?

 

[Ice Diva]

Last season many many people were saying Zoueva gave her best to D&W and were angry with what she gave V&M. Believed that Marina gave D&W the best because Meryl was dating Fedor. It seems in so many ways these two teams swap back and forth.

What I think.

Last year D&W were supposed to skate La Strada and the USFSA didn't like it and made them change it. All a bit last minute and fortunately Zoueva had in her mind a program she wanted them to skate to for a long time that they refused, were not interested. They find themselves in a situation where they are in a way desperate for a new FD and therefore much easier for Marina to sell them a program she has already imagined in her mind. She was right, Die Fledermaus suited them beautifully and made a huge impact with fans. This year at some point they dumped their Sinatra FD and had to start from scratch, it would seem this year Meryl picked the alternative, music she loved and we get Notre Dame.

Last year Tessa got music she loved, Funny Face, which was as well received initially as Notre Dame was for D&W ie..not well. This year they had in mind to use Carmen for the SD but were told by someone in ISU it was unacceptable for the polka. Having already played with the idea and music it is decided to switch it out for their FD. It comes to light this is a program idea Marina has tried to sell them for a number of years which they refused. Just as D&W refused DF. Recent interviews tell us it took all summer to make this program and Marina says she pulled in Jennifer Swan to make it less typical. So I believe it's Swan that gave it the quality we are seeing now, before Swan Marina says it was too typical.

What is the common factor here? In a pinch Marina seems to know what to do to bring her teams up competition. Last year in a pinch she gets D&W to skate DF and this year she gets V&M to do Carmen for a SD which likely made it much easier for them to accept as a FD. In both cases Marina's vision of D&W doing a great DF and Tessa being great as Carmen were correct. I don't think it's so much favouritism (unless she decides to swap years she plays favours in which case 2014 is D&W's turn ) but rather Marina doing well in a pinch.


Perhaps Marina also allowed Swan in because she was swamped with trying to sort out the three teams, at least two of which have program changes through the off season and likely three (something went on with Shibs SD which was supposed to be MaryPoppins??). I suspect Notre Dame, Carman, Shibs SD have/had very little mileage and runthroughs as all were probably ready late, which is why I'm not ready to write off any of them just yet. Now that they have the basic bones of their programs sorted and have gotten feedback on the levels it's practice, practice, practice and I don't think ANY of these teams need Igor around to practice hard. What makes these teams as good as they are is their own work ethic and drive.

CAS - thanks for all the great insight and busting of the favoritism myths floating around.

 

[ice coverage]

D/W and Shibs could easily move to Igor if they want. He's not that far from Canton and they've worked with him for years, so it wouldn't be a huge shock. In fact, since they are keeping in touch with him anyway, they could all easily be planning their Olympic programs with him as we speak.

Igor mentioned that Meryl emails him, congratulations on the success of his skaters etc, but it is social/friendly (as far as we know).

I believe that Virtue/Moir, Davis/White, and the Shibutanis all felt a strong personal attachment to Shpilband -- as they do to Zoueva. But the skaters (to their credit) seem determined to steer clear of the bad blood between the coaches. I doubt that Zoueva would give her blessing to collaboration with Shpilband, and the skaters surely recognize that going behind her back would only stir up more unwanted drama. I agree with IP that any contact with Shpilband is a continuation of their friendship, not of their professional relationship.

.... Neither D/W nor the Shibs strike me as folks that would completely burn ties with old coaches. I don't know about V/M, but there was some mention that they were uneasy about seeing Igor at SC, so perhaps there's more tension there for whatever reason?

I think that V/M too would make a point of preserving their friendship with Shpilband.
Was "uneasy" a direct quote from them? That is not a snarky question; I ask because I did not catch the primary reporting on this point.

I did see the video of Shpilband hugging V/M after the SCI medal ceremony, and if the Canadians felt any uneasiness on the inside, they did not show it on the outside.

I recall that V/M wrote in their book that at their first competition after leaving Paul MacIntosh, they felt some initial awkwardness (a totally different nuance than uneasiness). They sounded wistful that they had to skate right past MacIntosh at the boards and break their comfortable habit of turning to him for advice and support.
It did not seem to be a matter of tension, but of separation anxiety (even though it was their choice to change coaches). They missed him.
The good news is that the awkwardness was only temporary, and V/M remain close to MacIntosh.

The book also described how especially Virtue needed time getting used to training in Canton on a permanent basis. (MacIntosh previously had sent V/M to Zoueva for temporary training.) Virtue would have felt disloyal to MacIntosh if she had instantaneously embraced the new arrangement.

If anything, I suspect that V/M were glad that Shpilband needed to be in Windsor too -- so that they would have a chance to see him without going out of their way (i.e., without any risk of ruffling Zoueva's feathers).

 

[dorispulaski]

I actually like both programs from I/K. The SD is in a better shape than the FD. The FD is a bit raw now I believe in part because of her injury. It has a nice fresh light feel to it. I'll curious to see how it develops over the season. If they're going to experiment why not this year. All the best to them. As per the rivalry with BS I say that's a distraction. The real big picture is the depth of russian ice dance that will erupt soon with S/Z, St/Bu, B/S and I/K..who knows I might be missing a few others. All the best to them I just like ice dancing, it's my favourite discipline.

Welcome to Golden Skate! bramweld!

 

[WeakAnkles]

Ah, that makes sense. Neither D/W nor the Shibs strike me as folks that would completely burn ties with old coaches. I don't know about V/M, but there was some mention that they were uneasy about seeing Igor at SC, so perhaps there's more tension there for whatever reason?

I think "more tension" may be an understatement. In their remarks at the press conference after the RC, Virtue had some very interesting, and I think revealing, things to say:

The Canadian champions’ preparation for the season was affected by the fact that their long term coaches Igor Shpilband and Marina Zoueva parted ways. According to Virtue, it was a shock, but they believe in the end, it was all for the better.

“Obviously, it was extremely sad,” said the 23-year-old. “The circumstances were not ideal, and when you have such a great partnership, it is sad to see it end. But we had so much fun this summer training with Oleg Epstein, and also with Maurizio Margaglio. I think we have such a great team, the people that are around us now.”

“In fact, I just told Oleg a couple of weeks ago that he makes me like skating even more,” shared Virtue. “He brings so much passion, energy, and enthusiasm every single day, that it’s hard not to respond with equal energy. It’s nice to have a bit of a change. It’s easy to settle into something that is really comfortable, and we have been there for 8 or almost 9 years. Sometimes a bit of change of scenery is good. It really worked out well for us.”

This is the link to the article (it's from this site, so I think I can post the link--or at least try to!):
http://www.goldenskate.com/2012/11/...e-a-perfect-conclusion-to-2012-cup-of-russia/

Apparently the dumping of IS "really worked out well for [them]." Classy .

Sounds to me like she's pretty much instantaneously embraced this new arrangement. But YMMV of course.

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

Eh, Shpilband basically shellacked them to the press, so I think she's trying to make the best of a bad situation.

 

[bramweld]

Thanks:yay:

 

[WeakAnkles]

Perhaps. But I think there are better ways to do that than essentially say, Wow, things are so much better now that you're gone.

 

[emdee]

Eh, Shpilband basically shellacked them to the press, so I think she's trying to make the best of a bad situation.

Agree here.

The break up was behind their control - they have to make the best of a potentially bad situation. I think Tessa handled the question well - why should she find a better way? Once they chose to stay and once Igor chose to bash them I dont think he deserved any more than the above. IMO she was quite restrained.

 

[Ravensque]

That's Tessa..........always positive!!!!

 

[ice coverage]

Eh, Shpilband basically shellacked them to the press, so I think she's trying to make the best of a bad situation.

Perhaps. But I think there are better ways to do that than essentially say, Wow, things are so much better now that you're gone.

Yikes, definitely a case of YMMV.
Before posting my previous comments, I had seen the video of Virtue's remarks at the press conference, and did not think for one second that it indicated any "tension" with Shpilband whatsoever. She did not say that things are better post-Shpilband.
She lamented an "extremely sad" and "not ideal" change, and then praised her new coaches.
I believe that her words were intended not as a slap in Shpilband's face, but as an expression of V/M's perfectly appropriate focus on moving forward and having a great season. If you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with.

I don't mind a difference of opinion, but I really don't think she deserves WA's derisive pronouncement of "classy".
To me, only something truly egregious -- if she had refused Shpilband's hug, for example -- would warrant such sarcasm. But I did not detect any tension as she hugged Shpilband either, and I find nothing wrong with her enthusiasm for her new coaches.

 

[all that]

Apparently the dumping of IS "really worked out well for [them]." Classy .

Sounds to me like she's pretty much instantaneously embraced this new arrangement. But YMMV of course.

YMMV indeed. I thought she had a great response. Sad that the split happened, but enjoying the new coaches. Perfectly diplomatic, because she needs to support her new coaches as well.

 

[Mrs. P]

I believe that Virtue/Moir, Davis/White, and the Shibutanis all felt a strong personal attachment to Shpilband -- as they do to Zoueva. But the skaters (to their credit) seem determined to steer clear of the bad blood between the coaches. I doubt that Zoueva would give her blessing to collaboration with Shpilband, and the skaters surely recognize that going behind her back would only stir up more unwanted drama. I agree with IP that any contact with Shpilband is a continuation of their friendship, not of their professional relationship.

I think that V/M too would make a point of preserving their friendship with Shpilband.
Was "uneasy" a direct quote from them? That is not a snarky question; I ask because I did not catch the primary reporting on this point.

I did see the video of Shpilband hugging V/M after the SCI medal ceremony, and if the Canadians felt any uneasiness on the inside, they did not show it on the outside.

I recall that V/M wrote in their book that at their first competition after leaving Paul McIntosh, they felt some initial awkwardness (a totally different nuance than uneasiness). They sounded wistful that they had to skate right past McIntosh at the boards and break their comfortable habit of turning to him for advice and support.
It did not seem to be a matter of tension, but of separation anxiety (even though it was their choice to change coaches). They missed him.
The good news is that the awkwardness was only temporary, and V/M remain close to McIntosh.

The book also described how especially Virtue needed time getting used to training in Canton on a permanent basis. (McIntosh previously had sent V/M to Zoueva for temporary training.) Virtue would have felt disloyal to McIntosh if she had instantaneously embraced the new arrangement.

If anything, I suspect that V/M were glad that Shpilband needed to be in Windsor too -- so that they would have a chance to see him without going out of their way (i.e., without any risk of ruffling Zoueva's feathers).

That's why I said "I don't know." Some posts from SC mentioned "tensions" between the V/M and Shpilband at SC -- some even blamed their poor performance there for it! But perhaps that was nothing more than people speculating, which is why I was careful not to definitely say one way or the other. I did not see the video of the post medal ceremony, so I'm willing to put the speculation to rest. I didn't bring it up to make V/M look bad or anything but simply to say "???" since the posts I've seen only mention of D/W + Shibs interaction with Shpilband.

And I agree with you all that Tessa's comments were fine -- I wouldn't put that as evidence for the tension thoughts.

 

[ice coverage]

Well, ISU bios are interesting...I highly doubt that Sinitsina/Zhiganshin pull in 50+ hours a week during the summer - if so that means that they are also training full time on the weekends with no rest days...hmmm Mr. Shpilband would doubt this....

Or it could mean 5 days/wk x 10 hrs/day with weekends to rest. Still a very long week.
But plenty of non-athletes have jobs that consistently entail 10 hrs/day. I could be wrong, but I'd wager that some jobs in that category require physical labor or standing on one's feet the entire day.