2014-2015 GPF Mens Short Program 12/12

[Alba]

You know what? I give up making any sense out of the scores in this GPF.

Tomorrow I'll watch the competitions like it's a gala.

 

[begin]

What I don't like is the PCS reputation ranking that is always put in place for men from the same country. Hanyu and Machida are both great for me. Voronov > Kovtun. The gap between them should not be predetermined.

It's all really political. Federations pick favorites and get the judges to pick their favorites.

 

[s_parks]

Judging, esp. pcs, has been pretty whack in mens, in both the jr. and sr. competition.

 

[adelia]

The judges already have an idea who they want on the podium and who they don't want on the podium. Unfortunately for Voronov, he falls into the "don't want" category.

 

[kimganos]

Because relative to several veteran skaters from the past, his PCs are monstrous. I'm not saying he isn't the cream of the crop now, but his technical talent/reputation has been influencing every part of his scoring (and this has gone on for 2-3 seasons now).

Hanyu is in a league of his own in skating quality. He has no rivals.

 

[satine]

Wow wow wow. I didn't expect it that low. Except for Yuzu. But he fell as well. I'm done.

The scores were all over the place to be honest. Here are some comparisons in the variation:

Takahito, Transitions 5.75-7.75
Javier, Interpretation 6.75-9.50
Sergei, Transitions 6.25-8.50
Maxim, Interpretation 6.75-8.50
Tatsuki, Performance 7.50-9.00
Yuzuru...nothing noteworthy.

 

[samson]

You know looking at the score sheet I think Yuzu's score makes a ton of sense. He didn't necessarily blow the competition out of the water PCS wise, but I still think with the fall he deserved the numbers he got.

The high GOE on all his other elements makes sense and for me he was the only skater that was truly in the present - living moment to moment on the ice. If you go back and watch that skate he had some incredible nuances, even in the way he would look at the judges over his shoulder. He was in control every step of the way.

Tatsuki still looks a little forced to me like things are yet to gel. For me he's at about a Nagano Tara Lipinski level with his music and presentation. To clarify I still think that's very very strong, but I wouldn't go farther than that for him.

Maxim... well he did it all but it wasn't exactly pretty on his way there.

Sergei isn't my cup of tea. He's the only person that I think was really maybe underscored here he was clean as a whistle. Idk... looking at the score sheet I'm actually not sure I would have given him higher GOE. He has only a little bit more ease with the ice than say Butyrskaya in my opinion. The 6's he got in PCS seem a little low ball to me but I wouldn't go overboard there either. He did end up with a higher TES that Machida, but started at a lower base value. I do think he suffered by comparison skating after Yuzu.

Javi Javi Javi... I love this program but the air was just completely taken out of the skate after his fall. Coupled with his other mistakes he seemed to be so fizzled out from all the excitement/pressure of skating in his home country. One might argue his PCS were generous.

Mura was nervy all the way through. His feet didn't seem under him and I think that showed in all his elements not just his jumps.

So idk... I get why it's frustrating to see a short program with a fall in the lead, but such a huge margin AND to have that be the highest short program score of the season so far... but I think if you stack up all the elements, point by point, his score and his lead make sense.

 

[staccato]

What's Voronov's tech content like for the FS? I just want him to be on the podium... Even though Kovtun has the tech goods, I feel Voronov deserves better as he's been pretty consistent and he works well with what he has...

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

It's absolutely insane that Machida gets -3's on his 4T+3T(stepout) and Hanyu get's -2s on his 3Z+3T(fall).

And between C/B and Hanyu, it seems 9's on Performance/Execution with a fall are par for the course, and can still keep you in 2nd and give you 7 point leads over clean skates. Appalling judging/system in these particular cases.

 

[begin]

Hanyu is in a league of his own in skating quality. He has no rivals.

Idk what "skating quality" means but he has plenty of rivals in performance, interpretation, choreo, and SS. If Denis Ten and Hanyan were to land their jumps they would even rival Yuzu's GOEs (but neither would get those scores due to inconsistency).

 

[Scovies]

Looking at scoresheets. I agree with judging. the fall on the 3T only decreased the value of his 3Lz-3T by ~2pts and is essentially mitigated by half because of Hanyu doing the combo in the 2nd half. That and the amazing GOE on his 3A and 4T o_o. His PCS, I think, is well-deserved.

Yeah, when I look at how each element is graded, I don't really see too much to complain about how the judges marked everything aside from Machida's 4T-3T, and 2 -2's for Hanyu that should have been -3's. Kovtun had the highest base value of anyone, but he (deservedly, IMO) got negative GOEs on all of his jumps.

As far as Voronov's PCS... I actually think they were pretty fair. Seeing him go right after Hanyu, there was a really stark drop-off in overall skating quality (and choreography, IMO). He lost a few points by only having a level 2 step sequence, and gives up another point by doing a loop instead of a lutz. I'm not sure why some of the men insist on doing a 4-3, rather than a solo quad and a 3-3 in the second half. The judges never seem to take a deduction for a lack of preceding steps if the solo jump is a quad.

 

[Pippuripihvi]

So has Tatiana Volosozhar. It's definitely different over there...not just Russia, but all of eastern Europe and even Germany, they just don't have the kind of PC culture we have in the US.

The N word is not offensive in any of these countries. Just becausethe US screwed up this meaning of it in the American English does not mean that it has negative connotations in other langusges.

 

[kimganos]

You know looking at the score sheet I think Yuzu's score makes a ton of sense. He didn't necessarily blow the competition out of the water PCS wise, but I still think with the fall he deserved the numbers he got.

The high GOE on all his other elements makes sense and for me he was the only skater that was truly in the present - living moment to moment on the ice. If you go back and watch that skate he had some incredible nuances, even in the way he would look at the judges over his shoulder. He was in control every step of the way.

Tatsuki still looks a little forced to me like things are yet to gel. For me he's at about a Nagano Tara Lipinski level with his music and presentation. To clarify I still think that's very very strong, but I wouldn't go farther than that for him.

Maxim... well he did it all but it wasn't exactly pretty on his way there.

Sergei isn't my cup of tea. He's the only person that I think was really maybe underscored here he was clean as a whistle. Idk... looking at the score sheet I'm actually not sure I would have given him higher GOE. He has only a little bit more ease with the ice than say Butyrskaya in my opinion. The 6's he got in PCS seem a little low ball to me but I wouldn't go overboard there either. He did end up with a higher TES that Machida, but started at a lower base value. I do think he suffered by comparison skating after Yuzu.

Javi Javi Javi... I love this program but the air was just completely taken out of the skate after his fall. Coupled with his other mistakes he seemed to be so fizzled out from all the excitement/pressure of skating in his home country. One might argue his PCS were generous.

Mura was nervy all the way through. His feet didn't seem under him and I think that showed in all his elements not just his jumps.

So idk... I get why it's frustrating to see a short program with a fall in the lead, but such a huge margin AND to have that be the highest short program score of the season so far... but I think if you stack up all the elements, point by point, his score and his lead make sense.

:thumbsup:

 

[cheerknithanson]

You know looking at the score sheet I think Yuzu's score makes a ton of sense. He didn't necessarily blow the competition out of the water PCS wise, but I still think with the fall he deserved the numbers he got.

The high GOE on all his other elements makes sense and for me he was the only skater that was truly in the present - living moment to moment on the ice. If you go back and watch that skate he had some incredible nuances, even in the way he would look at the judges over his shoulder. He was in control every step of the way.

Tatsuki still looks a little forced to me like things are yet to gel. For me he's at about a Nagano Tara Lipinski level with his music and presentation. To clarify I still think that's very very strong, but I wouldn't go farther than that for him.

Maxim... well he did it all but it wasn't exactly pretty on his way there.

Sergei isn't my cup of tea. He's the only person that I think was really maybe underscored here he was clean as a whistle. Idk... looking at the score sheet I'm actually not sure I would have given him higher GOE. He has only a little bit more ease with the ice than say Butyrskaya in my opinion. The 6's he got in PCS seem a little low ball to me but I wouldn't go overboard there either. He did end up with a higher TES that Machida, but started at a lower base value. I do think he suffered by comparison skating after Yuzu.

Javi Javi Javi... I love this program but the air was just completely taken out of the skate after his fall. Coupled with his other mistakes he seemed to be so fizzled out from all the excitement/pressure of skating in his home country. One might argue his PCS were generous.

Mura was nervy all the way through. His feet didn't seem under him and I think that showed in all his elements not just his jumps.

So idk... I get why it's frustrating to see a short program with a fall in the lead, but such a huge margin AND to have that be the highest short program score of the season so far... but I think if you stack up all the elements, point by point, his score and his lead make sense.

YES YES YES!!! Thanks for telling all of us this analytically.

 

[whatif]

Voronov has a very unfortunate LP. No chance this panel will favour him unless he has the skate of his life. 4th place at best.
Kovtun has an edge over other guys going in tomorrow, IMO. If others fall, which is very likely with almost every single one of them, expect perhaps Machida, watch out.

 

[Silvia451]

I don't think Yuzu was overscored, but I would have given Tatsuki at least 90.

And I'm so sorry for Javi...he just couldn't handle it. And not only the jumps...the interpretation, he wasn't the skater we used to know. Hopefully he'll skate better tomorrow.

 

[cruzceleste]

Feeling for Javi, seem to got really bad nerves... best wishes for all the skaters tomorrow...

 

[staccato]

Wait. Hanyu's 3Z-3T has more -2's and -3's than Machida's 4T-3T. Is the computer sure that that only adds up to -1.90??

 

[Krunchii]

If you're unhappy with the scores, blame the system, of course to everyone a program with a fall is bad, but it's the judging system's fault for not punishing falls enough, if it's rotated max points you lose on a 3Lz-3T is 3.1 I believe (GOE + the deduction), so I can only say that Yuzu's score is fair but the system is unfair, as for placements, well that's the judges fault, not a huge fan of Voronov's skating but it sucks that even skating clean won't put you on that podium (yet)

 

[Blades of Passion]

I'm kind of loving Kovtun's SP. Except for the ending. Crappy last spin and trite ending pose.