2014 Olympics Mens Free Skate

[jaylee]

It is not like Yuzuru came out of nowhere and will retire now that he has the Olympic Gold. He isn't even World Champion, yet. A lot of people predicted four years ago, when he won the Junior World Title that he is a future World and Olympic Champion. So he did perform year after year, day after day. He deserves this as much as Chan would have deserved it.

I strongly disagree that Hanyu deserves this as much as Chan. How so? Because he's a former junior world champion that people predicted big things for? There's a huge gap in their records over what they accomplished this quad. Yes, Hanyu performed year after year, day after day--but he didn't even make it to Worlds in 2011. He's a one-time world bronze medalist. He was terrible at 2013 Worlds. How did he deserve this as much as Chan? You can argue over 1, maybe 2 of Chan's World wins (people seem to conveniently forget that even if Daisuke had won the free in 2012 Worlds, he had fallen in the SP and killed his chances there), but he'd still be a 3-time world medalist.

It'd be a different argument if Hanyu actually had decent programs over this quad, but his last two free programs have been complete and utter crap and Hanyu unfortunately performed them in a completely forgettable way. It's not that Hanyu can't interpret the music or project to the audience, as seen in his SP, but he really turns it off in the FS when he turns all his focus to his jumps. His stamina was previously an issue, the way they seemed to have resolved it is to have him just not worry about the performance aspect in the FS.

Hanyu had two great programs, his Parisienne Walkways SP and original Romeo & Juliet FS. Overall, I'd take Patrick Chan's programs from this quad.

So in terms of record over the past four years, in terms of ability, and in terms of what they did at the Olympics, I'd say Patrick Chan is far more deserving than Yuzuru Hanyu. Hanyu gave one of the worst Olympic gold medal-winning performances I've seen in the men's. I didn't think the bar was going to get lower than Evan Lysacek in 2010, but it just did. The falls were bad, but even worse, the program was pure junk. Patrick had errors, but the program was great and I think the performance was better.

Obviously, you and others will disagree and that's fine, just don't accuse me of being a Patrick Chan uber, I (previously) had zero emotional investment in the guy or Hanyu, feel free to look through my post history.

 

[Silvia451]

Lots of skaters retire after OG, but c'mon, Chan is only 23. And still has lots of things to prove.

 

[andyjo24]

Rewatching the FS on the NBC tv channel. Wow, Hanyu did not deserve the gold. He was so slow, especially towards the end, and his posture was just Chan should have gotten PCS scores much higher than Hanyu. To think of it, Hanyu has been outrageously inflated in the PCS department. He only received around an 80 for a relatively clean performance last year at worlds, and at the Olympics, he scores 90+? Really?

But then again, Chan didn't deserve the gold either. What a bad competition...

 

[CarneAsada]

So in terms of record over the past four years, in terms of ability, and in terms of what they did at the Olympics, I'd say Patrick Chan is far more deserving than Yuzuru Hanyu. Hanyu gave one of the worst Olympic gold medal-winning performances I've seen in the men's. I didn't think the bar was going to get lower than Evan Lysacek in 2010, but it just did. The falls were bad, but even worse, the program was pure junk. Patrick had errors, but the program was great and I think the performance was better.

Obviously, you and others will disagree and that's fine, just don't accuse me of being a Patrick Chan uber, I (previously) had zero emotional investment in the guy or Hanyu, feel free to look through my post history.

Using "body of work" to talk about how deserving a skater is of an OGM is a poor argument. Using performance of the day is fine, but Hanyu had 4 mistakes over 2 programs, 2 of which were major (2 falls), 1 moderate (3S not counted), 1 very minor (scratchy 3A-2T). Chan had 5 mistakes over his 2 programs, 2 of them major (3A step outs), 3 moderate (2A step out, 4T hands down, doubled 3S). Patrick still won in PCS; the margin maybe should've been 5 points instead of 2 but that wouldn't get him the title still.

 

[MaiKatze]

I strongly disagree that Hanyu deserves this as much as Chan. How so? Because he's a former junior world champion that people predicted big things for? There's a huge gap in their records over what they accomplished this quad. Yes, Hanyu performed year after year, day after day--but he didn't even make it to Worlds in 2011. He's a one-time world bronze medalist. He was terrible at 2013 Worlds. How did he deserve this as much as Chan? You can argue over 1, maybe 2 of Chan's World wins (people seem to conveniently forget that even if Daisuke had won the free in 2012 Worlds, he had fallen in the SP and killed his chances there), but he'd still be a 3-time world medalist.

It'd be a different argument if Hanyu actually had decent programs over this quad, but his last two free programs have been complete and utter crap and Hanyu unfortunately performed them in a completely forgettable way. It's not that Hanyu can't interpret the music or project to the audience, as seen in his SP, but he really turns it off in the FS when he turns all his focus to his jumps. His stamina was previously an issue, the way they seemed to have resolved it is to have him just not worry about the performance aspect in the FS.

Hanyu had two great programs, his Parisienne Walkways SP and original Romeo & Juliet FS. Overall, I'd take Patrick Chan's programs from this quad.

So in terms of record over the past four years, in terms of ability, and in terms of what they did at the Olympics, I'd say Patrick Chan is far more deserving than Yuzuru Hanyu. Hanyu gave one of the worst Olympic gold medal-winning performances I've seen in the men's. I didn't think the bar was going to get lower than Evan Lysacek in 2010, but it just did. The falls were bad, but even worse, the program was pure junk. Patrick had errors, but the program was great and I think the performance was better.

Obviously, you and others will disagree and that's fine, just don't accuse me of being a Patrick Chan uber, I (previously) had zero emotional investment in the guy or Hanyu, feel free to look through my post history.

I don't disagree and I don't think you are a Chan uber. Yes, what Yuzuru did here wasn't what a OGM performance should be. But the same could be said for Patrick, who had a mistake in the short, too. I think in the free it was equally bad for both, I think that Yuzurus mistakes weren't as bad, just imho. It could've gone either way, I'm ok with the result and would've been ok with Patrick winning the free. After Hanyu I really wanted Patrick to win. You may not believe me, but I also posted here a lot and I always defended Patrick - his win last year and I prefer his Four seasons program to Yuzurus Romeo & Juliet. But I just don't think he deserved his win based on his past accomplishments. If it was for that I would've wanted Daisuke to win.

 

[Flaya]

How come Hanyu and Chan were both scored first and second in the free skate?

Poor Kazakhstani skater should have won the free skate, but NO because of the influence of Japanese and Canadian skating federations, they still come on top. ***?!

If I were to choose between the two, I'd choose Hanyu, but both skaters are SO OVERRATED there are no words.

Get the politics out of it and compensate the best skaters.

 

[Flaya]

It is beyond ridiculous winning gold with two falls and silver with three!

 

[museksk8r]

It is beyond ridiculous winning gold with two falls and silver with three!

What are you talking about?

 

[MaiKatze]

It was basically the same situation as last years Worlds. One (this time two) skater was so far ahead, that no matter what the others would have done they would never have been able to catch up. Denis Ten was first in the third group. That was his doom or his luck. And once again it was Denis Ten who was in that unfortunate position.

 

[andyjo24]

How come Hanyu and Chan were both scored first and second in the free skate?

Poor Kazakhstani skater should have won the free skate, but NO because of the influence of Japanese and Canadian skating federations, they still come on top. ***?!

If I were to choose between the two, I'd choose Hanyu, but both skaters are SO OVERRATED there are no words.

Get the politics out of it and compensate the best skaters.

I think that skating first in the 3rd group impacted his PCS scores. If he had skated in the last group, his PCS scores would have definitely gotten a boost, especially if he had skated after Patrick and Yuzuru's horrible skates.

 

[andyjo24]

And to think of it, Ten actually had a chance at the OGM if he had done well in the short. He scored pretty well with the fall on the 4toe and only a 3flip-2toe combo.

 

[jaylee]

Using "body of work" to talk about how deserving a skater is of an OGM is a poor argument. Using performance of the day is fine, but Hanyu had 4 mistakes over 2 programs, 2 of which were major (2 falls), 1 moderate (3S not counted), 1 very minor (scratchy 3A-2T). Chan had 5 mistakes over his 2 programs, 2 of them major (3A step outs), 3 moderate (2A step out, 4T hands down, doubled 3S). Patrick still won in PCS; the margin maybe should've been 5 points instead of 2 but that wouldn't get him the title still.

I was responding to a post that was using body of work ("performing year after year") from the past few years to say that Hanyu was as deserving as Chan. It wasn't my own criteria, I was just using that criteria to respond.

As for the PCS, Patrick Chan had a 14 point advantage over Hanyu in PCS at Trophee Eric Bompard, where Hanyu again was messy and Patrick was near perfect. You can cut down that advantage significantly since Patrick had mistakes here, but had he gotten half that, a 7 point advantage, Patrick would have won.

http://www.isuresults.com/results/gpfra2013/SEG002.HTM

I don't disagree and I don't think you are a Chan uber. Yes, what Yuzuru did here wasn't what a OGM performance should be. But the same could be said for Patrick, who had a mistake in the short, too. I think in the free it was equally bad for both, I think that Yuzurus mistakes weren't as bad, just imho. It could've gone either way, I'm ok with the result and would've been ok with Patrick winning the free. After Hanyu I really wanted Patrick to win. You may not believe me, but I also posted here a lot and I always defended Patrick - his win last year and I prefer his Four seasons program to Yuzurus Romeo & Juliet. But I just don't think he deserved his win based on his past accomplishments. If it was for that I would've wanted Daisuke to win.

Okay, thanks. We can agree to disagree then.

I apologize for pre-emptively being defensive about being labeled a Chan uber--I really hate how many posters on this forum tend to dismiss arguments based on whether or not they think the poster is an uber or not. I'm not a Chan uber, and while I agree that he didn't give an OGM-worthy performance either, I think he deserved it more than Hanyu.

 

[Ophelia]

It is beyond ridiculous winning gold with two falls and silver with three!

Well...no one else stepped up to the plate. Despite the number of falls, Hanyu and Chan earned their medals and podium standings, fair and square.

I wish that we could dispel this idea that "winning" equates only to giving sublime, flawless performances (this seems to be esp. applied at the Olympics). Figure-skating is an extremely demanding sport, the Olympics are a gigantic pressure cooker, and sometimes "winning" means simply being able to tough it out enough on the ice out there, instead of the more idealistic and glamorous image of transcendent, soaring performances that are so frequently marketed. This article says it eloquently,

There is one image of the Olympic champion – the one that end up on the front of a Wheaties box. It is athletic perfection personified, a performance that strains the bounds of belief in its excellence or strength or sheer beauty.

The gold medal won in men’s figure skating at the Iceberg Skating Palace here Friday was not one of those.

It was an Olympic gold of a different kind, and perhaps one more common than the ideal. It was a gold medal of grit.

In figure skating, the two things can seem incongruous. After all, you will not find “grit” as a judged element among the program components. Nor did the skate by Japan’s Yazuru Hanyu in any way look like the teeth-clenched stuff of bobsled push athletes or cross-country skiers grimacing through every last meter.

And yet, in its own way, it was.

Perhaps Friday's free skate in the men’s figure skating competition will not be labeled for posterity by the figure skating world like the “Battle of the Brians” or the “Battle of the Carmens.” In the end, it was memorable mostly for Canada missing out on perhaps its best chance ever to win a gold medal in the event.

But behind the slips and bobbles and falls of what appeared to be a night of skating scared – with only one skater the entire evening rising up to seize a medal opportunity – there was the story of Hanyu, who did the next best thing: After falling not once, but twice, on his first three jumps, he got up and found a way to skate nearly perfectly the for the remaining four minutes.

On this night, that was the measure of an Olympic champion.

Competitions are won, said silver medalist Patrick Chan of Canada, by the skater that makes the fewest mistakes.

On Friday, those words could have been embroidered into every athlete’s outfit.

 

[rosacotton]

What a rough night for the men! Not at all what I was expecting nor the fans, and definitely not what the skaters wanted. I can't imagine the Olympic pressure, expectations, and personal hopes they were shouldering. My heart broke for so many of them.

Michael, Jeremy, and Denis had the best skates of the night.

I'm okay with the top-two placements. Haynu continued to fight for and sell the program after his falls. IMO once Patrick's performance started to have technical issues, that effected other aspects of his skating; he seemed to sort of gave up. Very unexpected turnout.

Honorable mention to Jason Brown skating DEAD LAST for fighting for everything, still managing to capture the audience's attention, and being so joyful finishing in the top-10. A very respectful debut for him. I look forward to watching develop over the next few years.

 

[Icey]

Jason is going to be another Sean Sawyer. If the americans skate this way at worlds, would they be down to one spot in the following Worlds?

 

[lady_bee]

Hanyu had given up OGM and handed it to Chan.
Then, he had dropped it on the ground.
Because there was nobody to pick it up:disapp:, Judges had to decide who should take it, and it went to Hanyu, at last.

Let’s hope their best performance in WGP,
And enjoy Short Dance, which starts in few minutes.

 

[museksk8r]

And enjoy Short Dance, which starts in few minutes.

You're 1 day too early; the Short Dance starts tomorrow. Today is a day off for figure skating.

 

[CarneAsada]

I was responding to a post that was using body of work ("performing year after year") from the past few years to say that Hanyu was as deserving as Chan. It wasn't my own criteria, I was just using that criteria to respond.

As for the PCS, Patrick Chan had a 14 point advantage over Hanyu in PCS at Trophee Eric Bompard, where Hanyu again was messy and Patrick was near perfect. You can cut down that advantage significantly since Patrick had mistakes here, but had he gotten half that, a 7 point advantage, Patrick would have won.

Yes, Chan had a 14 point PCS advantage, but do you really think that in Sochi, his PCS advantage should have been even half that? I wouldn't say so, but if you think so I won't try arguing with you. Either way, I don't think Chan was that much more deserving than Hanyu of this OGM.

 

[lady_bee]

You're 1 day too early; the Short Dance starts tomorrow. Today is a day off for figure skating.

Thanks! I was wondering why I can't find any stream, and why people still talking about Men's FP.

 

[jaylee]

Yes, Chan had a 14 point PCS advantage, but do you really think that in Sochi, his PCS advantage should have been even half that? I wouldn't say so, but if you think so I won't try arguing with you. Either way, I don't think Chan was that much more deserving than Hanyu of this OGM.

Yes, I think so. Hanyu has had a mistake-ridden FS pretty much all season long, and his PCS rose astronomically from the beginning of the season for no apparent reason whatsoever.

What's really frustrating about Hanyu is that he's capable of so much more, as evidenced in the short, but he remained stubbornly committed to the 4S--more committed to that than interpreting the music and moving the audience with his performance.