2014 Skate Canada Ladies FS 11/01

[FIREBIRD]

Because you quoted me so I have to repeat again: Among many reasons why Yulia's SL worked, one was thanked to her junior-ish.
I never said Yulia looked mature (and no I didn't mention Yuna so spare me). I said SL worked thanked to her youthfulness (heck, even ESPN commentators said so). The programs played to her strength and she benefited from it rightfully. The point is, Yulia's team didn't try to make her look mature, but they tried to show-off her strength and it worked.

I believe Melon got you confused with me, sorry about that.

 

[Art&Sport]

Should Satoko bleach her hair to blond? change her name to, maybe Satokova? maybe the judges get confused and give her a great PCS?

I think Satoko Miyahara is a gem. I can't wait to see how she develops. Her jumps and landings look a lot more refined than those of Pogo, Elena, Lip and Sot at this point in time. I didn't see Miyahara's sp performance, but she was wonderful in the fp. The SC audience seemed to think so too, regardless of NBC's new broadcast team's sort of okay but almost tepid reaction.

 

[FIREBIRD]

Skating to SL doesn't mean you're mature. Skaters' music choices do not define their skating skills. Yulia looks juniorish because she is tiny, her jumps are tiny, and her jumps look rough and not effortless. I'm not the only one who thinks this


No one is doubting her phenomenal results in her first senior year, but that does not justify her "maturity."

I agree to disagree. I remember watching Yulia's free program at Skate Canada, and hearing the commentators during that program. One particular comment I remember was made by Tara Lipinski who said and I quote "For someone so young, she already skates with a maturity and form that's way beyond her years."
And about her jumps she mentioned, "She just throws triples at the end of these jumps like it's nothing...I don't get it." Yes she does look young, but so do many 16 year olds, its only natural. As for her height, she is 5 ft 2, not much shorter than other skaters who are either 5'3 or 5'4. She may still grow a bit.

 

[Interspectator]

Satoko is a different kind of skater to be sure. She's serious and really not childlike at all in her approach to skating.
Her style is one of many I enjoy.
Just look at all the rising talents we have this year! Yes, they are very young still, but they all have wonderful qualities that I can enjoy.

Radionova- exuberance, extroversion, joy and spark.
Pogoriliaya-intensity, big jumps, beauty
Satoko - lightness, musicality, consistency
Elizaveta- intensity, charisma, determination, unique approach to skating

--and more.
Of course, one has favorites, but using age to measure someone's medal-worthyness is a questionable practice.

If it's good, it's good...no matter what age you are.

 

[MiRé]

I believe Melon got you confused with me, sorry about that.

I didn't get confused. I quoted Meoima for a reason.

 

[Meoima]

I didn't get confused. I quoted Meoima for a reason.

The difference between 1m60 and 1m45 is very jarring IMO.

 

[MiRé]

The difference between 1m60 and 1m45 is very jarring IMO.

Fine, take being tiny out, any justifiable answer to Yulia's tiny jumps? What now, bigger feet?

Let me quote you again

Small jumps and tiny frame which makes she look junior-ish.

If you're gonna call Satoko for being juniorish due to her appearances, why doesn't the same apply to Yulia?

 

[Meoima]

Fine, take being tiny out, any justifiable answer to Yulia's tiny jumps? What now, bigger feet?
Let me quote you again
If you're gonna call Satoko for being juniorish due to her physical appearances, why doesn't the same apply to Yulia?

You didn't read my post here:

Because you quoted me so I have to repeat again: Among many reasons why Yulia's SL worked, one was thanked to her junior-ish.
I never said Yulia looked mature (and no I didn't mention Yuna so spare me). I said SL worked thanked to her youthfulness (heck, even ESPN commentators said so). The programs played to her strength and she benefited from it rightfully. The point is, Yulia's team didn't try to make her look mature, but they tried to show-off her strength and it worked.

Back to the topic, Satoko.

I like Satoko's LP very very much. I have rewatched it many times. But seriously I can't help but thinking of her as a kid playing the role of a women. With Yulia it's different, it's a kid playing the role of a kid and I don't know how to explain but it simply worked, even to people who don't like her or don't like the music. And even though Yulia is a small girl, she's still 1m60, no 1m45. Her jumps might be small, but still bigger and fully more rotated than Satoko IMO.

The point is, I do think Satoko has it. She is just 16. She's small but so was Midori Ito (1m45 as well). She can make it but it might take her a while. Satoko will have to work harder on her jumps than other ladies, because of reputation judging. I am sure even Kostner now and then UR some of her jumps but were overlooked, thanks to her reputation. Skaters with UR reputation are judged more harshly. For example, Jason Brown might be judged very OFTEN on his jumps than Javi or PChiddy even though these top men might UR their jumps now and then. Sadly so but it's the reality.

So yes, skaters who have tiny frame does have some handicap because let's be honest, they look junior-ish among the top contenders. But it's not like they couldn't overcome it, time and consistency will help their PCS for sure.

 

[MiRé]

You didn't read my post here:

So a juniorish skater portraying as a junior deserves 70+ PCS .???? I clearly do not see any 70+ PCS in Jr. Worlds.......My point stands clear, and that Satoko should have received more on PCS. If the only reason for her to receive such low PCS is due to her skating like a junior, then skaters like Yulia should have received the same PCS, regardless of the music choice.

 

[aftertherain]

Because you quoted me so I have to repeat again: Among many reasons why Yulia's SL worked, one was thanked to her junior-ish.
I never said Yulia looked mature (and no I didn't mention Yuna so spare me). I said SL worked thanked to her youthfulness (heck, even ESPN commentators said so). The programs played to her strength and she benefited from it rightfully. The point is, Yulia's team didn't try to make her look mature, but they tried to show-off her strength and it worked.

Back to the topic, Satoko.

I like Satoko's LP very very much. I have rewatched it many times. But seriously I can't help but thinking of her as a kid playing the role of a women. With Yulia it's different, it's a kid playing the role of a kid and I don't know how to explain but it simply worked, even to people who don't like her or don't like the music. And even though Yulia is a small girl, she's still 1m60, no 1m45. Her jumps might be small, but still bigger and fully more rotated than Satoko IMO.

The point is, I do think Satoko has it. She is just 16. She's small but so was Midori Ito (1m45 as well). She can make it but it might take her a while. Satoko will have to work harder on her jumps than other ladies, because of reputation judging. I am sure even Kostner now and then UR some of her jumps but were overlooked, thanks to her reputation. Skaters with UR reputation are judged more harshly. For example, Jason Brown might be judged very OFTEN on his jumps than Javi or PChiddy even though these top men might UR their jumps now and then. Sadly so but it's the reality.

So yes, skaters who have tiny frame does have some handicap because let's be honest, they look junior-ish among the top contenders. But it's not like they couldn't overcome it, time and consistency will help their PCS for sure.

I can agree with this statement (with a few disagreements here and there). I really liked Julia's LP for the reason that it showcased her strengths and minimized her weaknesses. I know some on this board dismissed it as gimmicky and lacking true personality, but I quite enjoyed it and I know others were enamored with her during the Olympics.

With that said, I don't think Satoko should revert junior-style artistic skating. I don't think that will work for her. It worked for Julia because she was portraying a character in a story that most people are familiar with. While Satoko is skating to Miss Saigon, I don't think it's as literal of an interpretation as Julia's. And I also don't agree with some opinions that just because she's petite or short she should skate to "music more suited for juniors." That's a silly notion. That she needs to project more might be the problem.

One particular comment I remember was made by Tara Lipinski who said and I quote "For someone so young, she already skates with a maturity and form that's way beyond her years."
And about her jumps she mentioned, "She just throws triples at the end of these jumps like it's nothing...I don't get it."

Maybe Tara forgot where she was or who she was talking about and ended up talking about herself again. She is quite prone to doing that, you know!

 

[Meoima]

So a juniorish skater portraying as a junior deserves 70+ PCS .???? I clearly do not see any 70+ PCS in Jr. Worlds.......My point stands clear, and that Satoko should have received more on PCS. If the only reason for her to receive such low PCS is due to her skating like a junior, then skaters like Yulia should have received the same PCS, regardless of the music choice.

well, when Yulia won SA last season, her PCS was 60, not much higher than Satoko this season (58). If you want to make a point.
Why compare Yulia's last season PCS to Satoko's early season PCS? and we all know PCS inflation happened in Olympic season for many skaters. After that, not so much.

And to be frankly, it's true that skaters have more exposure tend to get higher PCS. I think Satoko will get higher PCS gradually if she continues to be consistent.

 

[thoakun]

Satoko is a different kind of skater to be sure. She's serious and really not childlike at all in her approach to skating.
Her style is one of many I enjoy.
Just look at all the rising talents we have this year! Yes, they are very young still, but they all have wonderful qualities that I can enjoy.

Radionova- exuberance, extroversion, joy and spark.
Pogoriliaya-intensity, big jumps, beauty
Satoko - lightness, musicality, consistency
Elizaveta- intensity, charisma, determination, unique approach to skating

--and more.
Of course, one has favorites, but using age to measure someone's medal-worthyness is a questionable practice.

If it's good, it's good...no matter what age you are.

:thumbsup::agree: I have a soft spot for Satoko's style, but I also enjoy other girls' styles. For me, Sc is more interesting than SA with the diversity of skating styles and no one tries to be what they're not. I hope Satoko will stay true to her authentical self and skate to music she loves. She doesn't need to skate to "junior appropriate music" just because she's tiny. Last year, while watching her SP, I forgot that she was only 15 and this year, I also forgot that she's just turned 16.

 

[sk8ingcoach]

I agree that Satoko should have received higher components. Satoko has class at such a young age. In a way she reminds me of Tara Lipinski because she is young and small but is still refined and shows finesse. She may not be the most mature but she has a real program with detail from Lori Nichol just like Tara Lipinski and her olympic Sandra Bezic program. IMO she should have won this event, her jumps were marked harshly because she is a small jumper but i dont think she deserved UR's.

 

[Red Helicopter]

After reading all that discussion I came to the following conclusion: the common admiration of Satoko's FS is related more to the music than to skater. The other thing is tender emotions towards nice young girl skating to such a difficult music with a very serious background - regardless how exactly she performs her program... And only after that some people are trying to discuss more or less impartially her program and her performance, not trying to shut eyes to the evident fact that she is quite juniorish.
Relax guys, in fact 59 points is exactly the value of PCS that perfectly represents her level. It isn't really small indeed, it's quite a good value, and I see no reason to cry about underscoring.

 

[Icey]

I think Wagner got a pass this go round, but I doubt that kind of treatment will continue.

 

[OS]

All these cries about Satoko undermarked are just desperate cry for a Japanese lady contender in absent of the great Mao, Akiko and no one to hold up the Japanese Ladies. Kankao hardly looks good with her dodgy POTO program, the others are too young. Don't get me wrong, Satoko is talented (in the studious rather than gifted way), but let's get real. Consider Samantha Cesario only received 57.60 PCS at Skate America (home event) with her sophisticated Carmen as a season veteran, I'd say Satoko 58+ as a total newbie making her GP debut is actually pretty generous already, consider how other newbies are typically marked.

I actually think her prospect is a bit limited, if I am JSF I'd place my bet more on the likes of Wakaba Higuchi for the future but there's always that puberty monster that can ruin everything.

 

[thoakun]

All these cries about Satoko undermarked are just desperate cry for a Japanese lady contender in absent of the great Mao, Akiko and no one to hold up the Japanese Ladies. Kankao hardly looks good with her dodgy POTO program, the others are too young. Don't get me wrong, Satoko is talented (in the studious rather than gifted way), but let's get real. Consider Samantha Cesario only received 57.60 PCS at Skate America (home event) with her sophisticated Carmen as a season veteran, I'd say Satoko 58+ as a total newbie making her GP debut is actually pretty generous already, consider how other newbies are typically marked.

I actually think her prospect is a bit limited, if I am JSF I'd place my bet more on the likes of Wakaba Higuchi for the future but there's always that puberty monster that can ruin everything.

Satoko made her GP debut last year. Her PCS were 54.31 at her home event and 53.97 at Russian soil. But you're right about Satoko being talented in a studios way. Her coach implied that herself and Satoko was aware of that and she worked hard to move up the ladder. She is hardly JSF's favorite skater and the same case can be said about Tatsuki.

 

[Mrs. P]

Both Samantha and Satako debuted on the GP last year.

Samantha's PCS, FWIW, was 57.49 (Skate America) and 57.12 (Trophee Eric Bompard).

 

[Meoima]

^so Sam's PCS technically didn't get a boost even when she skated light out? And there's no major chance inher PCS from last season to this season at all?

I give up! PCS surely is a puzzled game.

 

[gotoschool]

As for those who seem intent on downplaying Satoko's performance, the crowd's reaction speaks for itself because the biggest standing ovation I saw for the women in the LP was for Satoko, and I also liked her LP the best. It's not a national thing for me because I liked Soyoun Park's LP the best from Skate America. Besides, I thought Anna also skated really well, and Ashley was pretty good.

I thought Satoko skated with a high degree of artistic polish and in a light ethereal style which reminds me quite a bit of Lu Chen, though her spins and spirals are more flexible.

It was the end of her program that captivated me the most because of the way Satoko glided in an arabesque that curved across the rink and transitioned subtly into a serpentine turn and a series of pirouettes with her right hand positioned delicately atop her head, as a ballerina in a music box that mirrored perfectly the gentle tinkling on the piano keys. Then, she exited this position with finely drawn out extensions of her arms and legs, and balletic turns before dashing to her final triple flip. Next, she began with a counterclockwise camel before dropping into a broken leg sit spin. Finally. she did what I think no other lady in the competition did: she immediately switched the direction of her rotation to clockwise before dropping into a shoot the duck sit spin and concluded with a rapidly rotating I spin.

Even though it would be nice if she could vault higher, I really love Satoko's skating the way it is. That last spiral and spin sequence with the triple flip in between was mesmerizing.