2016 Trophée de France Mens SP

[HanDomi]

Shoma's solo 4F in SP also does not have steps, though he gets -GOE for not so clean landings. I think if he does a clean 4F with no steps, it would get +GOE.

Has anyone actually gotten -GOE for a clean executed solo jump without steps in SP?

Shoma should get -GOE too
I see in protocols that Arturt got almost -2, Denis got -2(partially propably for landing, although it was worth more around 0 GOE , so I guess it was heavily due to no steps)

 

[karne]

Has anyone actually gotten -GOE for a clean executed solo jump without steps in SP?

Yes, Brendan. Beautiful 4T in the SP at Skate America last year, -GOE for no steps. In fact, generally when he stands up on the 4T in the SP he gets -GOE for no steps, while plenty of others get away with it. I'll leave it to you to figure out why a skater from a small skating country might get dinged for it but a skater from a bigger skating country mightn't...

 

[Tolstoj]

Am I only one who like Dennis's sp? I have no problem with the music, and he is one of the most artistic skaters. And best of all, he skated clean.
I personally think Morozov is much more creative and exciting than Lori.

I like this music (especially the final part with the steps sequence) a modern twist of Romeo and Juliet, and he is definitely my favourite top male skater, but i have to say the music cuts for Denis's programs are awful most of the time.

 

[HanDomi]

Am I only one who like Dennis's sp? I have no problem with the music, and he is one of the most artistic skaters. And best of all, he skated clean.
I personally think Morozov is much more creative and exciting than Lori.

I like step sequence. I don't like the program because there is no program at all outside the step sequence.

 

[seimei]

Yes, Brendan. Beautiful 4T in the SP at Skate America last year, -GOE for no steps. In fact, generally when he stands up on the 4T in the SP he gets -GOE for no steps, while plenty of others get away with it. I'll leave it to you to figure out why a skater from a small skating country might get dinged for it but a skater from a bigger skating country mightn't...

I've seen some solo quad -goe for no step in sp. As long as I remember most of Mura, Murakami's solo quads and even yuzu at 2011 coc(I'm not sure this case, but at then his 4t is clean but got -goe) sp. And I remember denis got +1.xx goe at 15 4cc sp for no step... I think this no-step,no-goe rule is very inconsistent for judges and even viewers, too. especially for casual viewers, they can't notice there is certain step or not. . Personally I think in case of uno and nathan's 4f, judges were so focusing to landing and rotating because of new and rare jumps they have had not seen before and at least they didn't gave +2,3 goe. they will get huge goe, if they will add certain step before big jump. so sorry to hear that brendan's case, but actually I think this isnt matter for small country skaters but top contender or not..

 

[Anastasi14]

There's a popular saying.. "Don't Bite The Hand That Feeds You " It means, always be grateful to those who made you great. It's like when teens hit that stage where they begin to talk back to their Parents. Maybe she feels like the wrong coach is getting credit for turning Nathan into an international medal threat. Gracie was a technical marvel as a Junior and had great jumps long before she got to Frank. He has certainly improved her Component Mark but, she has declined technically, in the last 2 seasons. With Frank and Lori's stellar career's, I have to drop the blame heavily in Gracie's lap. Frank can only tell Gracie what would be best for her skating. If Gracie doesn't follow the plan, it's on her.

There's another saying that was popular when I was growing up. It was "Dance With One Who Brung Ya" It basically means, don't let someone spend their time treating you to wonderful evening and then leave with some rich playboy who bought you a drink at the end of the night. I hope that made sense.

I think she meant that it's very tough for a coach when an athelete, you've taught so much left you after everything you've been through together. And she thinks that she's lucky to don't know what how it's feels. Well, I can agree with her.

 

[Tavi...]

it's not the first time when judges throw positive GOE on messed jump pass


but if anything this jump pass should have received -1, not +1 !!



also, Nathan 4F should have received -2 for NO STEPS


judges not knowing rules at their best

Well, at least most of the judges gave him -1 or 0. On the other hand, US and French judges gave him +2.

Ha ha - the US judge gave Nathan really high PCS relative to most of the other judges - she was about .5 to .75 higher than average, and in the case of transitions, she was almost 1.0 higher. She was the only judge to give him +3 on his st sq. Her marks were slightly lower than average for Denis, but she low balled him on transitions and was the only judge to give him -2 on his final spin (most judges were at 0 or +1, Kazakh judge gave him +3 for same spin).

 

[HanDomi]

Well, at least most of the judges gave him -1 or 0. On the other hand, US and French judges gave him +2.

Ha ha - the US judge gave Nathan really high PCS relative to most of the other judges - she was about .5 to .75 higher than average, and in the case of transitions, she was almost 1.0 higher. She was the only judge to give him +3 on his st sq. Her marks were slightly lower than average for Denis, but she low balled him on transitions and was the only judge to give him -2 on his final spin (most judges were at 0 or +1, Kazakh judge gave him +3 for same spin).

Actually I don't think Denis was lowballed on transitions. I would go even lower than 7.9, because there wasn't any actually, and I don't understand why they are giving him such empty programs. I know he has major problems with injuiries and consistency but he has really good skills

 

[da96103]

Looking back at Denis's SP I kinda like the techno Romeo and Juliet. But the random Nutcracker edit needs to go asap.

What's up with that? Why do you mix Prokofiev with Tchaikovsky? Both will roll in their graves.

 

[Tavi...]

Actually I don't think Denis was lowballed on transitions. I would go even lower than 7.9, because there wasn't any actually, and I don't understand why they are giving him such empty programs. I know he has major problems with injuiries and consistency but he has really good skills

Sorry, I probably shouldn't have said low balled - I just meant that the score she gave him was low relative to what he got on average from the other judges.

 

[Geek On Ice]

Perhaps some of us are entirely sick of the blatant double-standard. One skater is labelled a "jumper", so no matter how hard he tries or how much work he puts in, people refuse to acknowledge it or give him credit, even when his programs have more choreography in them than in previous years, and his ISU PB is 87 flat even with a stunning quad combo. Another skater is labelled an "arteest", doesn't even have to try, turns up with a completely empty program where the choreography is basically sassing to the crowd and hitting poses, doesn't even attempt a quad, and gets handed an 86. It's disgusting.

I sort of understand that frustration. karne probably had a different skater in mind upon writing that post, but I always felt similar way for Mura, that he's often underscored because of that.

I've been a HUGE Mura fan for years and I think he's improved a lot as a skater, but like karne said, as if judges decided that "Mura is an athletic skater, not an artist", based on stereotypical impressions.

It was not his best SP skate, but he did pretty well, considering not yet fully recovered from the ankle injury suffered in 6 min warm up just before FS as SC. It's great his SS are acknowledged more now (his long glide w/ speed & StSq proves he has great edge control), but I thought PE/CO/IN could be a little higher, with his wonderful steps and refined movement. For TR, he may not have "showy" skating movement, but it's not "just-crossovers-jump-program" either... IMO.

Good luck on your FS, Takahito!! :luv17:

p.s. This is my very first post at GS, so please forgive me if my post does not make any sense at all! :

 

[Mrs. P]

Geek on Ice, thank you for your post and welcome to Golden Skate! Post often and post
long!

 

[skylark]

Perhaps some of us are entirely sick of the blatant double-standard. One skater is labelled a "jumper", so no matter how hard he tries or how much work he puts in, people refuse to acknowledge it or give him credit, even when his programs have more choreography in them than in previous years, and his ISU PB is 87 flat even with a stunning quad combo.

Yes, I'm well aware of your pain over what people say, or have said in the past, about your favorite. We all are, how could we not be?

I simply don't see that as a valid excuse for snark and bitterness towards another skater, who may also have fans here. One would think you'd know how that feels.

But, as I said, I'm always happy when we can ALL find things to celebrate about the skaters .... favorites, meh, or not particular fans.

 

[da96103]

I am thinking of how to solve the step solo SP jump. How about using the BV to reward the step instead of using GOE to punish no steps. Only in SP.

A skater does a solo 3lz with no steps gets 6.0 BV. GOE judges give their GOE based on the jump alone.

A skater that does steps before the solo 3 Liz gets a BV of 7,0. GOE judges just do the same judging.

 

[da96103]

Well, at least most of the judges gave him -1 or 0. On the other hand, US and French judges gave him +2.

Ha ha - the US judge gave Nathan really high PCS relative to most of the other judges - she was about .5 to .75 higher than average, and in the case of transitions, she was almost 1.0 higher. She was the only judge to give him +3 on his st sq. Her marks were slightly lower than average for Denis, but she low balled him on transitions and was the only judge to give him -2 on his final spin (most judges were at 0 or +1, Kazakh judge gave him +3 for same spin).

How do you which judge number is from which country?

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

How do you which judge number is from which country?

Try this link: http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1617/gpfra2016/SEG001OF.HTM

It's on the left side of the Results page where you find Starting Orders and Protocols. I'll link that below but you can find it in the first post of each event thread under the entries and results link.


http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1617/gpfra2016/

 

[da96103]

Try this link: http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1617/gpfra2016/SEG005OF.HTM

It's on the left side of the Results page where you find Starting Orders and Protocols. I'll link that below but you can find it in the first post of each event thread under the entries and results link.


http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1617/gpfra2016/

So no more anonymous judging. I thought that was for next season.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

FYI: I corrected the first link I provided because I accidentally linked the Pairs SP judges :

 

[Crossover]

On the second look of Denis' program, I've changed my mind about the program. When I saw it live, I just expected to see the same program that he used for last season, but the techno sound fell me into a panic a bit and as the following more fierce sounds played on, I realized that it was a new Romeo and Juliet routine woven with Morozoa's characteristic flavor. The music edits are just not ideal for my taste, the blazing and passionate step sequence is just awesome to watch. Denis commanded the ice with his charisma and sold the program, so what a comeback. What he might need the most is to give him energy and confidence, so I think his coaching change to Morozov looks quite successful at their first outing in the international event. I hope he continues this stride from now on.

 

[rollerblade]

I'm in love with Misha's SP. :luv17: He's the only one who makes the butt spin tolerable. Too bad the jumps aren't there.

How is his step sequence only a level 3? And that change foot camel spin as well. Sigh, can't afford to throw away points like that.