2017-2018 Programs by Discipline

[4everchan]

Trained musicians who happen to be fans of figure skating should get that, the chosen music is just vehicle to represent the choreography, not the other way around. They’re more like background music in all cases. If we nitpick about music cuts, it would be like we complain to people who use copies of Van Gogh paintings as wallpaper on their wall. The usage purposes are completely different.

that's fine to a certain level.... i am very aware of that.. trust me... i have heard many mismatched music cuts in 30 years of watching figure skating...

however, nowadays, with the technology available, there are very good cuts being made here and there... many more than in the 90s for sure...

so why use something that is so poorly musically created, especially when a team is aiming at creating a style of ice dance that is more "artistic"...

that's really where the paradox hit me the most. I am pretty sure that even untrained musicians, or some at the beginning level received the same jolting moments as I have.

I went back and listened again... and oh lord.... it's a butchery... I put it in the same league as B/S Chopin free dance last year.... so that tells you how much I am disappointed by the music cuts.

Fair enough, the skating can speak for itself and earn the levels and points needed to medal but to me, that's a missed opportunity... and honestly, I am not sure composition and interpretation will be easy with such a version...the moments that hit me in the face certainly put me out of the "ice dance dreamlike moment" they are trying to create....
I felt like I had hit a concrete wall at times.

Maybe judges won't feel that way... maybe the public won't either... but I wouldn't take that risk if I were a gold medal contender and if I really wanted to leave a mark in the world of ice dance... to me, it's a lesser version of their wonderful Mozart

 

[Snow63]

Thank you so much for this analysis! I think a contemporary piece would highlight their uniqueness much better. There's a reflex of defending their choices as "art," instead of pushing them to improve like every other team.

I would say that 'improve' is not the right word. They have improved a lot. I think the right word is 'challenge'. How exactly do they challenge themselve with this dance? I think it's very 'safe' and very 'them'. Doesn't mean it's bad exactly. But faster part of it looks like missing some choreography. I hope they'll change something in the second half of the dance.

 

[Barb]

Trained musicians who happen to be fans of figure skating should get that, the chosen music is just vehicle to represent the choreography, not the other way around. They’re more like background music in all cases. If we nitpick about music cuts, it would be like we complain to people who use copies of Van Gogh paintings as wallpaper on their wall. The usage purposes are completely different.

many of their fans are proclaim them, the Artists , I think that taking so lightly the music is not artistic, or they have low standards to call something Art. You say that is just background music, while their fans say that they become the music, contradictory.

 

[Ender]

that's fine to a certain level.... i am very aware of that.. trust me... i have heard many mismatched music cuts in 30 years of watching figure skating...

however, nowadays, with the technology available, there are very good cuts being made here and there... many more than in the 90s for sure...

so why use something that is so poorly musically created, especially when a team is aiming at creating a style of ice dance that is more "artistic"...

that's really where the paradox hit me the most. I am pretty sure that even untrained musicians, or some at the beginning level received the same jolting moments as I have.

I went back and listened again... and oh lord.... it's a butchery... I put it in the same league as B/S Chopin free dance last year.... so that tells you how much I am disappointed by the music cuts.

Fair enough, the skating can speak for itself and earn the levels and points needed to medal but to me, that's a missed opportunity... and honestly, I am not sure composition and interpretation will be easy with such a version...the moments that hit me in the face certainly put me out of the "ice dance dreamlike moment" they are trying to create....
I felt like I had hit a concrete wall at times.

Maybe judges won't feel that way... maybe the public won't either... but I wouldn't take that risk if I were a gold medal contender and if I really wanted to leave a mark in the world of ice dance... to me, it's a lesser version of their wonderful Mozart

I think the choreography was created to fuse P/C’s dreamlike quality and the stormy feeling of the last movement, because it’s Olympic they want something bombastic I guess. Personally I get their idea. But the choreography doesn’t work well in the transitional part. I did expect a lot but feel a bit flat. However they have time to fix it. We shall see.

 

[Ender]

many of their fans are proclaim them, the Artists , I think that taking so lightly the music is not artistic, or they have low standards to call something Art. You say that is just background music, while their fans say that they become the music, contradictory.

Do you know how these music were created at all? Like... at all? Do you know why some part are fast and some are slow? Do you know table music in the old days which were composed to be played for only one time? Literally no, most people don’t.

There are music which were created as absolute music, not programme music in the first place. For example, Moonlight Sonata was not about Moonlight in the first place. Do people take it seriously?

If they take it as absolute music in the first place, they wouldn’t have skated to it. Because these music were originally not composed to be skated or performed along any other type of “art”.

In an ideal world, Choreography and Music should all be composed and created on an idea from the scratch. But this is not that world. No skaters have that much money, time and knowledge of music to do something like that for every season. Literally there is no choice but butchering the music.

It’s not like P/C are portraying Beethoven music, seriously not. They’re using the pieces as background music for their skating purposes. And it’s the same with all the other performances. And I have no problem with that. But to call they’re becoming one with Beethoven’s music, it’s a bit far.

Now, if P/C skated to Mass in B Minor by Bach, would anyone say they’re trying to convey the holy feelings of Christianity? I hope not.

 

[Blades of Passion]

well the music cuts are not fine and i can elaborate on this

The repetition that got squeezed in from 1:45 to 1:53 is just cringeworthy for whoever knows what it's supposed to sound like.

The music is "supposed" to be whatever the performer wants it to be. Something meaningful could be done in the choreography with that repetition, something that could not be done with the normal progression of Moonlight Sonata. I think it's only useful to criticize the music if it simply fails provide a good enough frame for what the movement can be.

In this instance the choreography doesn't do anything useful with that section of music, they are doing a step sequence and it is of course very constrained by the CoP rules for what the movement needs to be. It's possible you could create an avant-garde movement that becomes deeper with this repitition on a dark section of music.

 

[4everchan]

. Literally there is no choice but butchering the music.

I think that's not true. I agree that music will get cut... will get arranged... OF COURSE!... How can one skate a 4 minutes LP to Rachmaninoff's second piano concerto which is 30 minutes in total...
Of course. What I am saying is that yes, music cuts will happen, and fine, I agree that skating is a sport and music is secondary... but I am simply saying that in that instance, the music cuts are BAD. Whoever made them, did a bad job. That's all I am saying.

Finding 8 beats here and there to allow a step sequence or cutting many bars from another section as it's too long or not appropriate for skating is fine... But the way it was done here is very poor. I would strongly suggest that they revise at least the fast section as it is an absolute nightmare.... there are superfluous repetitions and brutal omissions in musical phrases that destroy the aesthetics of the music....

People complain about warhorses or specific performers (Josh Groban, Sam Smith etc) all the time.... I think complaining about music cuts is just as legitimate, especially when the cuts are that bad.... and trust me, I am very tolerant in general... this time i am :noshake::eeking::reye::roll5::curse:

 

[4everchan]

I would say that 'improve' is not the right word. They have improved a lot. I think the right word is 'challenge'. How exactly do they challenge themselve with this dance? I think it's very 'safe' and very 'them'. Doesn't mean it's bad exactly. But faster part of it looks like missing some choreography. I hope they'll change something in the second half of the dance.

Basically, they use the faster part for a stationary lift... which is uncanny since well... it would have been beautiful in the slower part... and they use it for their dance spin... which of course doesn't follow the pulse of the faster 16th notes.

Here is a question : if the music is cut in a way that the musical content of the piece, its foundation, is no longer present, how can one choreograph something meaningful to it?

It is such a powerful piece... I was shocked to hear how empty it became as the phrases are not reaching their climaxes and are constantly interrupted to skip jarringly ahead...

If I were a skater/choreographer and asked for music cuts to be made on this piece... i would ask for a refund. In its current form, it's an disastrous soundtrack with little meaning.
.

 

[charlotte14]

I think that's not true. I agree that music will get cut... will get arranged... OF COURSE!... How can one skate a 4 minutes LP to Rachmaninoff's second piano concerto which is 30 minutes in total...
Of course. What I am saying is that yes, music cuts will happen, and fine, I agree that skating is a sport and music is secondary... but I am simply saying that in that instance, the music cuts are BAD. Whoever made them, did a bad job. That's all I am saying.

Finding 8 beats here and there to allow a step sequence or cutting many bars from another section as it's too long or not appropriate for skating is fine... But the way it was done here is very poor. I would strongly suggest that they revise at least the fast section as it is an absolute nightmare.... there are superfluous repetitions and brutal omissions in musical phrases that destroy the aesthetics of the music....

People complain about warhorses or specific performers (Josh Groban, Sam Smith etc) all the time.... I think complaining about music cuts is just as legitimate, especially when the cuts are that bad.... and trust me, I am very tolerant in general... this time i am :noshake::eeking::reye::roll5::curse:

Yes the music cuts are bad but it is not like casual viewers will care.

 

[4everchan]

Yes the music cuts are bad but it is not like casual viewers will care.

I try to look at the other angle : what if the music cut had been stellar? Same music...just arranged better.... would it have created a more emotional experience for the viewers casual or not?

I think a huge opportunity to create a masterpiece of skating in symbiosis with music is missed here. It had the potential to become an iconic program... one that viewers would watch again and again.... I don't think this does provide that and in many years from now, I will probably go back to their Mozart to watch fond memories of their skating.. not this butchery.

 

[charlotte14]

I try to look at the other angle : what if the music cut had been stellar? Same music...just arranged better.... would it have created a more emotional experience for the viewere casual or not?
I think a huge opportunity to create a masterpiece of skating in symbiosis with music is missed here. It had the potential to become an iconic program... one that viewers would watch again and again.... I don't think this does provide that and in many years from now, I will probably go back to their Mozart to watch fond memories of their skating.. not this butchery.

Yes, I agree I prefer their Mozart FD more. I also think their FD this season makes me conflicted. But from the comments and support from many posters here, I think most people will just call it a masterpiece and be swooning over it. So maybe we're in the minority.

 

[Ender]

I think that's not true. I agree that music will get cut... will get arranged... OF COURSE!... How can one skate a 4 minutes LP to Rachmaninoff's second piano concerto which is 30 minutes in total...
Of course. What I am saying is that yes, music cuts will happen, and fine, I agree that skating is a sport and music is secondary... but I am simply saying that in that instance, the music cuts are BAD. Whoever made them, did a bad job. That's all I am saying.

Finding 8 beats here and there to allow a step sequence or cutting many bars from another section as it's too long or not appropriate for skating is fine... But the way it was done here is very poor. I would strongly suggest that they revise at least the fast section as it is an absolute nightmare.... there are superfluous repetitions and brutal omissions in musical phrases that destroy the aesthetics of the music....

People complain about warhorses or specific performers (Josh Groban, Sam Smith etc) all the time.... I think complaining about music cuts is just as legitimate, especially when the cuts are that bad.... and trust me, I am very tolerant in general... this time i am :noshake::eeking::reye::roll5::curse:

Because the choreographers aka the person who cuts the music have different intentions compared to the composers? Simple.

 

[4everchan]

Because the choreographers aka the person who cuts the music have different intentions compared to the composers? Simple.

look.. i guess we have a match then...

the music cuts are poor on the fast section

the choreo/composition is terrible as well..

great job!

 

[Ender]

look.. i guess we have a match then...

the music cuts are poor on the fast section

the choreo/composition is terrible as well..

great job!

I think the soft and slow session look ok but the transitional part is very questionable. The fast movement is kinda mismatched.

 

[4everchan]

I think the soft and slow session look ok but the transitional part is very questionable. The fast movement is kinda mismatched.

we agree on that.

 

[dorispulaski]

from French Masters

Lorenza Alessandrini & Pierre Souquet FRA
SD:
FD: U-Turn (Lili) by AaRON, Angel by Sarah Mclachlan, Iris by Goo Goo Dolls

 

[Blades of Passion]

from French Masters

Lorenza Alessandrini & Pierre Souquet FRA
SD:
FD: U-Turn (Lili) by AaRON, Angel by Sarah Mclachlan, Iris by Goo Goo Dolls

Oh my, do we have a video of this program? Very interested in seeing how they put the music together.

 

[nimi]

Oh my, do we have a video of this program? Very interested in seeing how they put the music together.

Looks like their FD has made its way to Youtube.

 

[charlotte14]

We haven't seen the Shibs' programs right? Maybe they will blow us away.

 

[Roast Toast]

I'm expecting great things from their short program for sure. The Shibs always do their homework and I expect thematically they'll be the most "on-point" top team.