2017-2018 State of Russian Ice Dance

[Mattieu]

Then you'll be glad to know that their new FD will not be choreographed by Zhuline. Wonder how that will work out for them :scratch3:

No matter what they skate to, they always seem to look the same to me, ha ha

 

[coldblueeyes]

Then you'll be glad to know that their new FD will not be choreographed by Zhuline. Wonder how that will work out for them :scratch3:

And let's look at all the programs for B/S under Zhulin, the only total miss was Birds #2, most of the others were better - although for some that's not saying much. AK was a highlight. Not all programs are bad.

Also, if they do their SD with something close to their EX from the past season, I'm totally fine.

 

[Snow63]

No matter what they skate to, they always seem to look the same to me, ha ha

I can say the same thing about certain French team

 

[Snow63]

And let's look at all the programs for B/S under Zhulin, the only total miss was Birds #2, most of the others were better - although for some that's not saying much. AK was a highlight. Not all programs are bad.

Also, if they do their SD with something close to their EX from the past season, I'm totally fine.

Um, what was Birds #1 then?

 

[VIETgrlTerifa]

No Vivaldi was involved in Birds # 1.

 

[NoNameFace]

my little two cents on Ekaterina and Dmitri...

I do think that their real value and qualities are too often overshadowed by material, 'heaviness' of it. Like some of you pointed there already - there's great coverage, speed, Dmitri's partnering/presentation skills, Ekaterina's attitude, attractiveness, solid elements and consistency in delivering all of that said at the same time (pretty much regardless of material and levels awarded being always a problem for almost everyone), which is problem of all other Russian team at the moment. My biggest pain is that these 'raw' and obvious highlights of Bobrova/Soloviev are often hidden behind too much of 'artful conception', 'elaborate meaning' or other crappy, unmeaningful s**tty material, making them looking averange, strange or plain confusing in places. That's the blinding point of their reception I think, and with judges' reserve too sometimes I feel.

For me, they are brilliant storytellers, simple as it is. But the story itself has to be 'rich', with right channelled drama they both have in them (Ekaterina especially) - story with easy plot, maybe told already many times, but story 'universal, to which majority can relate and react somehow. They need to have that drama of expression, that 'big skating' thing projected stuffed in just RIGHT material, not being 'too much', but 'just enough' to give their qualities and themselves a chance to shine, like it was with 'Anna Karenina' FD. A well-know story portrayed in such intricate, picturesque way, haunting music, spectacular lifts, musicality, amazing costumes, vivid expression, a spectacle from start to finish. Every move was meaningful and done purposefully, with intention to move something in audience. A cohesive, beautiful picture created, filled by emotions and care, not just a bunch of thrown together moves to bizzare mash-up of music, supposed to be created 'art', modernity and new quality of vision in Ice Dance.

Let them stay real and true themselves, build rather on that as a core than running around in circles in search for unique concept of beauty when you have in in front of you, just hidden beneath superficiality of things maybe interesting, but not for that team. I mean - look even not at 'Anna Karenina' FD, but recent EX number: fun, sassy, energetic, with great Latin vibe channelled rightly on point for their personalities; Ballroom competition - clever convention, with bit of 'tongue-in-cheek' expression; colorful costume on Ekaterina paired with suave cleavage and black sleekness of Dmitri's attire - great choice; Perez Prado music - very much Latin and a great 'platform' to express some personality; presentation/interpretation - they TOLD A STORY, engaged people in it, added so much spark, sass and fun, all that just shone, made an impression.

My only wish is to see them first and then suit the material, not imagine material and put it on them like a 'sure fit' while it doesn't feel like that...

 

[coldblueeyes]

Um, what was Birds #1 then?

The one they skated at Rublevka. It was still in the making - and not the Lacrimosa one.

 

[gmyers]

I agree that the Fed's wishes and choices are not always what could be a more logic approach. They certainly lack an understanding of 'flexibility' and 'innovation'.
However, B/S is still number 3 in the World Rankings. So, historically speaking, they cannot have been that poorly... Last year's doping story hit them in the middle of a really good run. I very much hope they are professional enough to keep it together, change their skating and work hard. If Zhulin can't get them into the groove for Latin, who can?
But even at their best, competition at the moment is very, very tough.

I saw that ranking and v/m and p/c aren't reflected accurately. It's a too rosy picture. Misleading!

Many people are better than Zhulin at everything.

If anything, at RN last year it was pretty obvious B/S were not really being pushed to run away with the competition. I can't find the breakdown of the scores per judge, but half of them put S/B over B/S, and look at what happened in Euros and Worlds? What would even accomplish pushing a team that's not going to garner better results out of Russia? There's not really a single team in Russia that managed to beat their scores or consistency in competition, unless you want to count Tallinn Trophy, but we all know how that panned that for all the teams competing there - some of them scored 10-15 points less at Euros/Worlds.

What arguments there is to 'push' another team?

Also, just because B/S placed above the other Russians, there's no reason for the other teams to keep making mistakes in competition.

Maybe taking away b/S national title could make them improve! They don't medal at Grand Prix final ever. They are only third at euros. They are only fifth at worlds. The worst showing for a Russian number one team ever! Because now everyone knows b/S lead Russia to its worst preolympic showing ever the federation might get them better coaching

 

[coldblueeyes]

Maybe taking away b/S national title could make them improve! They don't medal at Grand Prix final ever. They are only third at euros. They are only fifth at worlds. The worst showing for a Russian number one team ever! Because now everyone knows b/S lead Russia to its worst preolympic showing ever the federation might get them better coaching

How well did taking away I/Z's chances to make the team - to a big outcry from the fans - did for them? Nothing. If anything, it sent them into a bigger hole. How is pushing S/B inside of Russia making them evolve in their skating, and score better outside? It's doing nothing of the sort, so how can you ask the judges to actually award a title they won fair and square to another undeserving team when it's going to accomplish anything?

And how is Bobrova and Soloviev's fault that this is the worst showing of the Russians ever? I said it before, and I'll say it again, if they are so bad, what does it say about the rest of the teams at the top? How does it compare to S/B getting close to B/S at RN to scoring 20 points away from them at Euros? How does it compare to I/Z or S/K that are both teams lacking the work needed to be out there and represent the country well enough? How does it compare to the teams below them that have zero chance at making a top ten, or worse, advancing to the FD in big championships?

I loathe this notion that the skaters are the ones to be blamed for the state of Russian skating right now, because if anything they have been working their butts off to represent a country that has been neglecting their discipline for a decade.

 

[gmyers]

How well did taking away I/Z's chances to make the team - to a big outcry from the fans - did for them? Nothing. If anything, it sent them into a bigger hole. How is pushing S/B inside of Russia making them evolve in their skating, and score better outside? It's doing nothing of the sort, so how can you ask the judges to actually award a title they won fair and square to another undeserving team when it's going to accomplish anything?

And how is Bobrova and Soloviev's fault that this is the worst showing of the Russians ever? I said it before, and I'll say it again, if they are so bad, what does it say about the rest of the teams at the top? How does it compare to S/B getting close to B/S at RN to scoring 20 points away from them at Euros? How does it compare to I/Z or S/K that are both teams lacking the work needed to be out there and represent the country well enough? How does it compare to the teams below them that have zero chance at making a top ten, or worse, advancing to the FD in big championships?

I loathe this notion that the skaters are the ones to be blamed for the state of Russian skating right now, because if anything they have been working their butts off to represent a country that has been neglecting their discipline for a decade.

There are both skater and system problems! It's been said a lot! Even Russia agrees here as they have asked outsiders to help judge technical elements because all Russian tech panels in dance at nationals can't be trusted. B/S share blame. she knows what her posture is like. Is she being told to fix it and isn't? Is fixing her posture not a priority for anyone in Russia? I don't know what skater based and what's system based? It's the mystery!

 

[coldblueeyes]

There are both skater and system problems! It's been said a lot! Even Russia agrees here as they have asked outsiders to help judge technical elements because all Russian tech panels in dance at nationals can't be trusted. B/S share blame. she knows what her posture is like. Is she being told to fix it and isn't? Is fixing her posture not a priority for anyone in Russia? I don't know what skater based and what's system based? It's the mystery!

You really don't know what to say other than her posture, really? That's what comes to everything about them.

 

[Barb]

How well did taking away I/Z's chances to make the team - to a big outcry from the fans - did for them? Nothing. If anything, it sent them into a bigger hole. How is pushing S/B inside of Russia making them evolve in their skating, and score better outside? It's doing nothing of the sort, so how can you ask the judges to actually award a title they won fair and square to another undeserving team when it's going to accomplish anything?

And how is Bobrova and Soloviev's fault that this is the worst showing of the Russians ever? I said it before, and I'll say it again, if they are so bad, what does it say about the rest of the teams at the top? How does it compare to S/B getting close to B/S at RN to scoring 20 points away from them at Euros? How does it compare to I/Z or S/K that are both teams lacking the work needed to be out there and represent the country well enough? How does it compare to the teams below them that have zero chance at making a top ten, or worse, advancing to the FD in big championships?

I loathe this notion that the skaters are the ones to be blamed for the state of Russian skating right now, because if anything they have been working their butts off to represent a country that has been neglecting their discipline for a decade.

Agree, if people don´t want they be scored well and being the number 1 russian team, Who do they think should be russian champion?

 

[Mattieu]

Agree, if people don´t want they be scored well and being the number 1 russian team, Who do they think should be russian champion?

New blood

 

[moriel]

How well did taking away I/Z's chances to make the team - to a big outcry from the fans - did for them? Nothing. If anything, it sent them into a bigger hole. How is pushing S/B inside of Russia making them evolve in their skating, and score better outside? It's doing nothing of the sort, so how can you ask the judges to actually award a title they won fair and square to another undeserving team when it's going to accomplish anything?

And how is Bobrova and Soloviev's fault that this is the worst showing of the Russians ever? I said it before, and I'll say it again, if they are so bad, what does it say about the rest of the teams at the top? How does it compare to S/B getting close to B/S at RN to scoring 20 points away from them at Euros? How does it compare to I/Z or S/K that are both teams lacking the work needed to be out there and represent the country well enough? How does it compare to the teams below them that have zero chance at making a top ten, or worse, advancing to the FD in big championships?

I loathe this notion that the skaters are the ones to be blamed for the state of Russian skating right now, because if anything they have been working their butts off to represent a country that has been neglecting their discipline for a decade.

Well, S/B were clearly the #2 russian team this season, results wise (internationally) - see their GP results, which were consistently better than I/Z. They were not unfairly pushed ahead, they just got what they earned.
As for the 3rd spot, I dont think fed minds that much, and I dont think it matters that much which of the second tier teams (which I/Z and S/K are currently) go to europeans.

 

[coldblueeyes]

New blood

There's zero chance of new blood making the team succesfully. That's a silly idea for a country that's barely hanging as it is. The only junior teams that stood out this season were L/D and S/S, and only one of them is moving up to seniors, and will find four teams up ahead that will surely surpass them even making mistakes. I hardly think any of these new junior teams would find themselves in a P/C kind of rise in the ranks, so that's not on the table.

 

[coldblueeyes]

Well, S/B were clearly the #2 russian team this season, results wise (internationally) - see their GP results, which were consistently better than I/Z. They were not unfairly pushed ahead, they just got what they earned.
As for the 3rd spot, I dont think fed minds that much, and I dont think it matters that much which of the second tier teams (which I/Z and S/K are currently) go to europeans.

I didn't say their #2 spot was unfairly earned. I actually think they are very deserving of their chance to compete at Euros/Worlds - despite their shortcomings you rarely see them going to a competition unprepared. I just found very funny that there was a talk about them winning over B/S in Nats, and clearly some of the judges wanted the same, but when it came for the international panels to judge them the tables turned. They did were closer at Worlds, but in Europeans the difference was of 20 points.

 

[Marta25]

I didn't say their #2 spot was unfairly earned. I actually think they are very deserving of their chance to compete at Euros/Worlds - despite their shortcomings you rarely see them going to a competition unprepared. I just found very funny that there was a talk about them winning over B/S in Nats, and clearly some of the judges wanted the same, but when it came for the international panels to judge them the tables turned. They did were closer at Worlds, but in Europeans the difference was of 20 points.

I think that's just typical behavior for the Russian Fed. The judges tried something similar with SK last year and if they hadn't the twizzle mistakes SK would have been probably National Champion. It's what is so frustrating with this Fed. They have 3 teams fighting for the #2 spot that are more or less equal, but instead of letting the skating talk, they choose their darlings of the year and push them while holding others down. I was live in Helsinki and while I like BS, I wasn't very happy about their programs this year. I felt Anna Karenina was so much more emotional and honest than the Chopin/Vivaldi mix they had this year. Anyway, I don't think there is any doubt that they are Russian #1. Regarding my darlings Ruslena OTOH I crave fo news OTOH I fear them, because the next news could be their break up announcement or retirement, depending which rumor people believe.

 

[coldblueeyes]

I think that's just typical behavior for the Russian Fed. The judges tried something similar with SK last year and if they hadn't the twizzle mistakes SK would have been probably National Champion. It's what is so frustrating with this Fed. They have 3 teams fighting for the #2 spot that are more or less equal, but instead of letting the skating talk, they choose their darlings of the year and push them while holding others down. I was live in Helsinki and while I like BS, I wasn't very happy about their programs this year. I felt Anna Karenina was so much more emotional and honest than the Chopin/Vivaldi mix they had this year. Anyway, I don't think there is any doubt that they are Russian #1. Regarding my darlings Ruslena OTOH I crave fo news OTOH I fear them, because the next news could be their break up announcement or retirement, depending which rumor people believe.

I really don't think for this year there was any team better for that second spot, but I do believe there's are strings pulled to help S/K - they were almost champions the other season, had they not made mistakes. And yeah, I didn't really like B/S their programs that much this year, but it is what it is. Let's hope they can geet better program for the next.

And about Ruslena, I feel like they should be vying for the #1, but it's like it never works. It's programs, commitment, preparation, everything rolled up in one thing. If they had ways to stay for one more season, even if it's to have a coaching change or prepare themselves for after the Olympics, they'd have a chance of making the team, but I feel like the doors are closing for the next season.

 

[moriel]

I think that's just typical behavior for the Russian Fed. The judges tried something similar with SK last year and if they hadn't the twizzle mistakes SK would have been probably National Champion. It's what is so frustrating with this Fed. They have 3 teams fighting for the #2 spot that are more or less equal, but instead of letting the skating talk, they choose their darlings of the year and push them while holding others down. I was live in Helsinki and while I like BS, I wasn't very happy about their programs this year. I felt Anna Karenina was so much more emotional and honest than the Chopin/Vivaldi mix they had this year. Anyway, I don't think there is any doubt that they are Russian #1. Regarding my darlings Ruslena OTOH I crave fo news OTOH I fear them, because the next news could be their break up announcement or retirement, depending which rumor people believe.

I dont see 3 teams fighting for #2 spot really.
I see clear #1 and #2, and then some second tier teams fighting for #3 spot.
S/B had better international outings than two other teams. They are sloppy, yes, but I/Z are equally sloppy. And S/K can be good sometimes, but then sometimes they dont even seem to try.

 

[Mattieu]

And about Ruslena, I feel like they should be vying for the #1, but it's like it never works. It's programs, commitment, preparation, everything rolled up in one thing. If they had ways to stay for one more season, even if it's to have a coaching change or prepare themselves for after the Olympics, they'd have a chance of making the team, but I feel like the doors are closing for the next season.

Well it's kind of ironic that they turned to Igor to save them from the mess Kustarova seemed to be creating, then came back from Igor in even more of a mess, and Kustarova had to come to the rescue to sort out the mess. As I remember, if Elena hadn't dropped her bracelet, they'd have been going to Euros, so it was a pretty good turnaround by the end of the season.
Oh how I wish they'd never gone to Igor, what a mistake that was.