2017 CS Autumn Classic Mens SP

[4everchan]

I guess as an American living abroad, it's been drilled into my head that my conduct IS representing my country, positive or negative. Whenever I see Americans being overly loud on trains, or being "ugly Americans" in a sea of politeness, it makes me embarrassed.

I'm glad to hear that it was a joke about taking things to collections.

Yes I believe it would be frustrating for people to only show up for the main skaters. I've only watched one competition live and it was similar in that there were 3 disciplines competing prior to the main event. Sitting in seats, much less bleachers, for that many hours are PAINFUL. I confined my away time to ice resurfacing unless the restroom lines are insane. I much rather people not move around during the competition itself, so if they missed the first competitor of the group, I rather they stay away. Just personal preference.

So you are saying that as a foreigner in another country you behave accordingly to the culture of said country. That is wonderful. Too bad those fans are not doing that. The commentators even mentioned it yesterday as half the audience left before the last group. They said " there is a big change of mood in here now. It must be difficult for the last skaters" just saying

 

[Ender]

So you are saying that as a foreigner in another country you behave accordingly to the culture of said country. That is wonderful. Too bad those fans are not doing that. The commentators even mentioned it yesterday as half the audience left before the last group. They said " there is a big change of mood in here now. It must be difficult for the last skaters" just saying

If it were me I would stay but I understand those who left. It's very tiring to wait like 24 hours outside just to see several minutes. By the time they see what they want, it's understandable they want to leave as they're exhausted.

 

[4everchan]

If it were me I would stay but I understand those who left. It's very tiring to wait like 24 hours outside just to see several minutes. By the time they see what they want, it's understandable they want to leave as they're exhausted.

Funny. They could just sleep and attend the event like everyone else. It is a small rink. No bad seats in the house.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Maybe instead of taking their stuff and putting it with collection, maybe just move it to one side while you watch the program? I live in Japan, they tend to go in super early for everything and stake out their most desired seats. They do this for sporting events, ESPECIALLY for fire works. There's also a culture of respect for other people's belongings that they don't ever touch stuff even if it's seemingly abandoned, so they wouldn't know to leave someone on the look-out for their stuff because they just aren't used to people touching it. The good part about them staking out large areas, when it comes to the main event, if you ask nicely, and there's room, they almost ALWAYS share their space. That's how me (perpetually running late) can almost always get a good vantage point. But it's your country, so you represent it however you want.

While I appreciate the cultural perspective, there's something to be said about monopolizing a space. That looks like a rather cozy arena, and I don't think there is room for fans' stuff (flags, stuffed animals, flowers, personal items) to fill up the seating area. Just how much space should 4everchan or any earlier spectator be giving up to leave room for someone else's stuff? If you abandon your items and they're in the way, you should anticipate the prospect of someone moving them and taking your spot. Which is very different of course than stealing/damaging/disposing of these items. That being said, the onus is also not on the person who wants the seat to babysit/protect a stranger's stuff that they've moved.

Perhaps I'm not following what exactly you mean by "staking out". IMO, "staking out" refers to going to a venue, and getting a glimpse of where the best spots are, so that at a later point you try to get the best seats. It does not mean previewing where the best seats are, and then putting your stuff in those seats as a means of "claiming them" so that you get the best seat when you return hours later. Claiming a prime/front row seat you'll be sitting in 5 hours later, and expecting the other disciplines' spectators to watch in less-than-ideal seats while your stuff gets the best view in the house is obnoxious. Also, expecting these people take the effort to move it and find a place for it, or make room for it in a way that compromises their own comfort, is also an unreasonable expectation.

The men's FS is at 8 p.m. tonight, and there are 2 groups of skaters before Messing/Ge/Hanyu/Fernandez/Nguyen. If I were attending this (general admission) event and showed up at the start, and somebody's stuff was in the front row of seats, and I noticed that the owners were nowhere to be seen, you can bet I'd be moving that stuff out of the way and taking the seat. Why should stuff belonging to someone who doesn't care to watch Meng, Tim, Harry, etc... get a better view than people who came to watch them?

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

If it were me I would stay but I understand those who left. It's very tiring to wait like 24 hours outside just to see several minutes. By the time they see what they want, it's understandable they want to leave as they're exhausted.

This is a silly argument. If Hanyu/Murakami/Fernandez/etc. had been the last skater scheduled in the men's discipline, fans would have stuck around to watch him, regardless of how exhausted they were.

If anything, if they were willing and able to wait a whole 24 hours just to see several minutes, they could have handled watching the rest of the men's SP, and show that they are an appreciative audience who respects all the skaters and not just the ones they came to see. (And it's not like this is a Worlds marathon viewing where it's understandable if spectators don't watch all 36 short programs/24 free skates).

 

[Heleng]

Back on topic? For a change of pace to all the well-deserved accolades for Yuzuru, I must say that I love Javi's new short program and think it also has WR potential once skated and performed at his best.

 

[ancientpeas]

You guys are bumming me out with the crowd stuff. :-(

I thought Yuzuru and Javier were both fantastic and knowing that Shoma and Patrick have great programs this year makes me feel very buoyant about the upcoming season for the men. I also can't wait to see Adam's short..because..singing! Glad to see Nam improving and of course I was thrilled to see Misha. Love me some Misha Ge.

I still say if Hanyu stays healthy he is going to win the Gold at the Olympics. When was the last back to back gold medalist in mens? Has there been one?

Hoping everyone skates well in the long.

 

[Jaana]

You guys are bumming me out with the crowd stuff. :-(

I thought Yuzuru and Javier were both fantastic and knowing that Shoma and Patrick have great programs this year makes me feel very buoyant about the upcoming season for the men. I also can't wait to see Adam's short..because..singing! Glad to see Nam improving and of course I was thrilled to see Misha. Love me some Misha Ge.

I still say if Hanyu stays healthy he is going to win the Gold at the Olympics. When was the last back to back gold medalist in mens? Has there been one?

Hoping everyone skates well in the long.

Dick Button in 1948 and 1952 is the latest:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Olympic_medalists_in_figure_skating

 

[ancientpeas]

Dick Button in 1948 and 1952 is the latest:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Olympic_medalists_in_figure_skating

Ah, Thanks. I was lazy and didn't go look.

Definitely would put him in very rarefied air and I do think he deserves that. But February is a long way away. Stay Healthy Guys.

 

[chillgil]

i feel like camping out for hours on end on a very cold night is something so that impassioned fans can get as best a seat as possible to see their respective hero. the concept of saving seats may be rude to some people but so is touching and moving other people's stuff. if you really think you are entitled to do that then just camp out with every one else so you can get a good seat too, like that's only fair IMO. yes it is annoying that once their skater is finished they might leave but ask yourselves this: if yuzuru and javier weren't there do you think the arena would have been sold out? at least people are there showing support for figure skating and i feel that gives more motivation to the skaters like "well they're here to see X Skater but while they're here let me wow them and make them my fan"

 

[Ender]

This is a silly argument. If Hanyu/Murakami/Fernandez/etc. had been the last skater scheduled in the men's discipline, fans would have stuck around to watch him, regardless of how exhausted they were.

If anything, if they were willing and able to wait a whole 24 hours just to see several minutes, they could have handled watching the rest of the men's SP, and show that they are an appreciative audience who respects all the skaters and not just the ones they came to see. (And it's not like this is a Worlds marathon viewing where it's understandable if spectators don't watch all 36 short programs/24 free skates).

Huh why silly? Haven't heard of athletes struggle to get motivated after winning Olympic gold? Didn't Tara Lipninski say the same? Human are like that. They get what they want the most, after that they're tired and they want to rest. Expecting people to stay because of skaters they're not interested in? I mean it's silly as well. It's the same as you tell Yuna Kim: "You must go badk to skating, you can't just drop out like that after Vancouver. You must go back and win all the medals." Come on...
If it were me, I would stay, but I wouldn't complain about people who leave. They have their own legs and their own wills.

 

[ancientpeas]

I do think it's okay to leave between flights or while the resurfacing went on but leaving right after your favourite skater seems very unkind to the next skater. Imagine you are Misha Ge and half the place gets up and leaves before you skate. How sad and demoralizing. However when they do an ice resurface btw flights with the last flights having 5 skaters that aren't super popular I can see wanting to leave. I would stay. I've stayed and watch ridiculous children sing or dance badly because it would have been rude to leave once the child I was there to see finished (I used to be a scout leader and we sometimes had to go and make sure that kids earned their performing arts badge- sometimes they would ask you to go for moral support, one of those was an ice skater).

If I were the Autumn classic I would have predicted this (because can't we all predict that if Javier and Yuzuru skate early in the last competition of the night people are going to bail) and seeded all the flights for everything. If Yuzuru (the world champion) is skating last no one is leaving.

 

[4everchan]

i feel like camping out for hours on end on a very cold night is something so that impassioned fans can get as best a seat as possible to see their respective hero. the concept of saving seats may be rude to some people but so is touching and moving other people's stuff. if you really think you are entitled to do that then just camp out with every one else so you can get a good seat too, like that's only fair IMO. yes it is annoying that once their skater is finished they might leave but ask yourselves this: if yuzuru and javier weren't there do you think the arena would have been sold out? at least people are there showing support for figure skating and i feel that gives more motivation to the skaters like "well they're here to see X Skater but while they're here let me wow them and make them my fan"

Cold night? There is a heat wave in Montreal. To give you some perspective, i arrived at the rink with the old schedule in mind. So instead of ladies it was the final flight of men practice. I hard a very hard time to find a seat because of blankets, plushies, gifts, lunchboxes and even hotel towels. I found a seat. In one of the worst spot which is still very close to the ice. There is no point hogging seats really. On top of that, now that men are done, so many people left their seat but of course now, i am about to watch the ladies surrounded by towels and plushies. One word : disrespectful.
Ymmv

 

[ancientpeas]

Cold night? There is a heat wave in Montreal. To give you some perspective, i arrived at the rink with the old schedule in mind. So instead of ladies it was the final flight of men practice. I hard a very hard time to find a seat because of blankets, plushies, gifts, lunchboxes and even hotel towels. I found a seat. In one of the worst spot which is still very close to the ice. There is no point hogging seats really. On top of that, now that men are done, so many people left their seat but of course now, i am about to watch the ladies surrounded by towels and plushies. One word : disrespectful.
Ymmv

I definitely agree with the heatwave thing.. It's hotter than hades. I was surprised the ice was in good shape.

I can't put up the dragon yet if it stays this hot. GB will look silly until it at least feels like fall.

 

[NoNameFace]

just had a chance to re-watch some of SPs and you guys who are live in Montreal could not ask for more probably - so much class from so many skaters!!!

I was probably the most moved by Misha's performance on the strictly personal level (Yuzuru did move me strongly too, just on different level but we'll get there) - the care he's putting now over the picture created on ice by program AND how he want the perfromance of it to resonate on people leaves me speechless. This program is for me a moment taken from Misha's artistic sensitivity, soulful nature and given to the audience, and this is for me also probably the rawest program of his. This 'raw' component is about emotional side of his performance, how it colours the program, choreography, making them alive and very physical to witness, at least for me. Saying that, I think he achieved quite beautiful paradox by this SP, because this unkept, free emotion/message carried by his skating was wrapped in such calm elegance and subtelty, it's truly amazing to see for me. I LOVE this kind of 'dramatic' signature over the program without obnoxiousness in it - for me, he's very SOUND, not neccessary loud, which makes a difference in performance reception in my opinion. To add one more perspective point about performance quality/reception of Misha's SP, the way he presented it reminded me a lot of the way Carolina Kostner did her SP at Lombardia - she let the big music to empower herself and her message she wanted to give out, not letting it overpower the performance; Misha for me did exactly the same thing - 'Ave Maria', as majestic as it is, gave the whole presentation, the choreography and way Misha executed it similar power, mainly due to Misha's incredible thoughtfulness and sensitivity over every FS aspect. And I have similar impression about gesticulation thorough the program like in Carolina's case mentioned - the way Misha does it feels like an intricate storytelling, an invitation to live that story, that moment with him together, no single gesture is accidental/an afterthough, yet those louder choreographical moments do not feel forced nor artificial at all. It takes a real artistic soul, a skater who celebrates every move, who understands the power of movement to the music, to make such natural, seamless effect with his body and music together. But on the top of all that feeling I have to add - WHAT is this costume?!?! In thumbnail it looks like 'Pocahontas' costume, it's just not acceptable for such prigram and such skater...Misha dear, if you're loving it, at least please make it is black and white - such angelic program needs divine costume!

As for Javier - I do think that this program will move me immensely during the season...I have this feeling that he did something different while still being inside his best repetoire/convention to use - the program feels for me quite multi-dimensional in terms of character, story and moods, while Javier for me was usually in one, defined and vivid character in his programs, telling the story by performance. This SP OTOH for me seems to actually 'challenge' Javier in terms of his entertainer's qualities/abilities, as he has to portray both quirkiness/cheekiness of Chaplin's character/music and that nostalgic feel in it. I am definitely a fan of how well the choreography translates music - there is a heavy Chaplin touch in transitions and overall movement, but it looks organic and stylish instead of forced and flashy. I'm also a fan of Javier's moderate expression - it's engaging, but not OTT, the movement/choreography are leading the performance for me and expression is following effortlessly as music builds up. I think that technical side of this program will be amped subsequently by each performance and there will be more speed and attack in it, but as for now, the real highlight is the step sequence - a perfect blend of body control, musicality, gestures and expression, all with effortless quality. I'm very excited how this SP will develop, because for me its power and impact are laying in the intricacy of giving out multi-dimensional feel of character withou playing it in obvious way.

Watching Yuzuru perform Chopin's Ballade was for me like experiencing the flow of a water by every sense. And in this continous flow, every element seemed like a single droplet breaking the surface and joining the unity. As stupid as it may sound – his performance really speaks to the artistic part of my soul, evokes this feel of being inspired by music, movement, the texture of both. Aside of being the perfect fit for Yuzuru, I feel that the program went the same road as him to get to this very point – Yuzuru is in a different place right now and the program feels not only 'customized' to his current abilities/desires in terms of technicalities, but also in terms of power, impact and emotional layer. The program/music themselves could be recycled from the past, but the beauty of it is not depending on that factor. Actually, the beauty for me is still there, but taken even into more 'universal' level, way beyond the sole vision. There is delicacy in movement and powerfulness in what it is expressed by Yuzuru – for me, it truly shows how thoughtful he is about the complete performance and impact of it. This 'ownership' over every aspect of his skating, performance-wise seems to grow more with each season and the re-work done on Chopin's SP is a proof of that for me – I think that this new part after solo jump, including 2 spins one after another (please correct me if I'm wrong, because I did not re-watch previous Chopin SP) keeps the overall tension and focus inside of the program more effectively, not even mentioning the insane musicality in all of that. Then, the combo actually 'meets' musical pinnacle, instead of hitting it in my opinion – there is just incredible subtelty over this part of the program. I think that as 'universal' this program is, everyone could feel its beauty, complexity in a different way, on different level, for me Yuzuru and Chopin's Ballade are enriching each other, allowing me to focus on that exchange instead of difficulty of his skate.

 

[OS]

Just want to add very quickly, that I revisited Yuzuru's old Chopin and discovered the new one has a different layout and actually choreographically fit the music concept better.

Hanyu swapped the spin earlier and backload one of the jumping elements. What initially caught me in delightful surprise was this particular part

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6RJLCk8BEM

1min38, 1min40, it was the merest burst of finger gestures (left arm) during the spin highlighting the piano staccato. I wonder if is choreographed or spontaneously inspired moment of improv, because that was such an ingenious moment of clarity that made me fell in love with this version of Chopin even more.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

i feel like camping out for hours on end on a very cold night is something so that impassioned fans can get as best a seat as possible to see their respective hero. the concept of saving seats may be rude to some people but so is touching and moving other people's stuff. if you really think you are entitled to do that then just camp out with every one else so you can get a good seat too, like that's only fair IMO. yes it is annoying that once their skater is finished they might leave but ask yourselves this: if yuzuru and javier weren't there do you think the arena would have been sold out? at least people are there showing support for figure skating and i feel that gives more motivation to the skaters like "well they're here to see X Skater but while they're here let me wow them and make them my fan"

All fans deserve equal treatment not just Javier and Hanyu's. If they're so committed to camping out, then clearly they have no issue with patience. Selling out an arena does not entitle these skaters' fans to special treatment. It is general admission, meaning everyone should be able to get any seat they want, so long as they stay in the seat (obviously things like bathroom breaks are fine - I'm referring to those who "save" their own seat hours beforehand and expect nobody to touch their stuff and watch from further back). If somebody wants a prime seat, then they can line up for it at the time of the event and try their luck, or attend an earlier event and camp out in the seat.

And Ender, there is something to be said about respecting the skaters. Nobody is forcing a spectator to watch but it's not cool to essentially be like "I saw who I came to see, the rest of you are unworthy of my time or attention." Which is what filing out of an arena en masse is like.

There are also spectators who would kill to watch the entire event, but can't get in because certain people decided to buy one of the allotted tickets available with the intention of watching only a portion of it.

 

[Yatagarasu]

What initially caught me in delightful surprise was this particular part
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6RJLCk8BEM
1min38, 1min40, it was the merest burst of finger gestures (left arm) during the spin highlighting the piano staccato. I wonder if is choreographed or spontaneously inspired moment of improv, because that was such an ingenious moment of clarity that made me fell in love with this version of Chopin even more.

The first two spins, and the steps, are my favorite part of the program. It may sound odd because jumps, and yes, yes, but spins! Steps!

About them, it's his, he works on those. Bestemianova and Bobrin taught him long ago how to feel the music in the spins and use his hands/fingers so he fiddles with those.

I love that one too but I think I prefer this one even more:
https://youtu.be/M6RJLCk8BEM?t=105
I mean look at the movement of the arms and hands. When you slow it down you can really see it. When he lets go of his leg, one hand actually goes to his face, there's a gesture there, before going back towards the leg. Then change of position, all on the musical accent, watch the arms again. And then after, in front of him, to his head, in front of him, all with the music. Just guh.
Honestly, I think that's impossible to choreograph for someone else, it's like a unison with the music. You either have it, or you don't.

I am really not surprised this spin got a +3 goe.

 

[OS]

The first two spins, and the steps, are my favorite part of the program. It may sound odd because jumps, and yes, yes, but spins! Steps!

About them, it's his, he works on those. Bestemianova and Bobrin taught him long ago how to feel the music in the spins and use his hands/fingers so he fiddles with those.

I love that one too but I think I prefer this one even more:
https://youtu.be/M6RJLCk8BEM?t=105
I mean look at the movement of the arms and hands. When you slow it down you can really see it. When he lets go of his leg, one hand actually goes to his face, there's a gesture there, before going back towards the leg. Then a change of position, all on the musical accent, watch the arms again. And then after, in front of him, to his head, in front of him, all with the music. Just guh.
Honestly, I think that's impossible to choreograph for someone else, it's like a unison with the music. You either have it, or you don't.

I am really not surprised this spin got a +3 goe.

Yeah about his 2 spins, it was immediately clear to me they are musically responsive, full of intricate details I didn't remember was there in the first one that is why I immediately went back to rewatch original Chopin wondering what am I missing here, is my memory & eyesight so bad back then?

I have always known Hanyu has a real natural 'feel' for the music since his senior debut Romeo and Juliet (still one of my fav program of ALL TIME). After choreographic instructions, there are just certain things you can't teach that need to come from the skaters themselves to truly make it original, unique, and authentic to themselves.

This V2 Chopin is truly brilliant in exposing the purity of his visceral style and jazzy like instincts that have become more attuned over the years. Call it trimming down the COP fat... it is not about any particular element, but about perfecting ALL OF THEM. This is not about points grabbing but simply great figure skating. This should open more doors to the new fandom of this sport coming Olympics, maybe from places people don't expect. Really fantastic and well-deserved WR. It is maddening to imagine it may get even better by season end, the sky is the limit. Hope he manages his conditions well, stay healthy and save the quads until he really needs them.

 

[Icey]

The judges are not representing their country or shouldn't be.