2017 JGP Brisbane Ladies FS

[puremagic]

No i didn't mean that Sasha isn't gifted.... seriously. All I am saying is that I personally think that "making history" should be on succeeded in competition attempts.. not in practice like the beautiful combo Anna did (which I had seen but thank you anyways) or not on attempts that are not flawless.

I am truly impressed by Trusova's jumping prowess. I like how she goes up in the air so high. Her tight and fast rotation is wonderful.

I think some fans here are just too quick and too eager to glorify her and some fans are too quick and too eager to pounce on someone like me who just happens to have a different opinion.

Yeah, well, I think it's really big words about "making history", just like Alexei in the last season with UR on 4Lo. But I guess people more don't agree with your writing form.

It's just kids! She's so little and when you start to write your different opinion in the form like this it could really hurt many people. I'm okay with your critics on ice dance, because I don't follow it, but please, if you're watching on young talents, please choose more polite and correct form, okay?

For example, my opinion: about her 4S I already said, also I think Sasha has not enough speed, and she needs to work on her spins. That's it. Just easy and calm. But when you start: oh no sorry no.. ugh ridiculous.. Eteri's school.. ugh mwah, blah... It's kind of rude.

 

[Tolstoj]

nope.. not a hater.. nor even a disliker. Last year, Alexei tried the quad loop... well... a lot of people were upset that a poor attempt would be ratified as the first one in history. Then people were very happy that Yuzu got his ratified as it was completely rotated with a good landing. All I am saying is that whatever the jump, whatever the age or gender, if we are going to talk about history-making achievements, well, let's do it on clean jumps. Trusova already made history this weekend by being the youngest winner of a JGP (if that's correct... I read that somewhere)... she will keep making history as it's clear that she can land a clean 4s... but this attempt, although very good to me, doesn't make history.... we are all entitled to our opinion but history in sports suggests something that is good enough to be talked about decades from now...

In my opinion, Trusova will be in the history books but not for that attempt... for other achievements... sure. I don't think it serves anyone to lower our standards with jump quality because it's a13 y o girl attempting the quad.... that's actually sexist attitude of "oh well, girls cannot really do it, so let's cheer when one almost does it". I believe that it is possible for some truly gifted young ladies to land it in competition, fully rotated, and when that's happen, whoever succeeds it, i will be joining the party of admirers. And regarding Trusova herself, WOW is indeed a good word. BRAVO

YMMV

She made it also for the best combined total score in a GP event.

I see your point and kinda agree with it, but i think the gender is key in this case: so many skaters, great skaters, world and olympic champions said that the quad is too demanding for a woman, it would be almost like asking a 5 revolutions jump for a men. We will get there one day maybe, or maybe not.

So it's a much much bigger step for a girl landing a 4S than a guy landing a 4lo, considering also that we already had male skaters perfectly capable of landing the 4Ltz which is more difficult; we knew that Javi, Yuzuru, Kevin Reynolds, Konstantin Menshov, Gordei Gorshkov and few other russians had already landed 4loops in practices or even at some ex event, and Javi himself said a year ago that he wasn't interested on doing it for the first time at an official competition because it's not so worth it in comparison with the 4S.

I would also argue that Alexei's first 4lo attempted wasn't even landed while here Trusova's 4S is actually landed but underrotated.

Let's wait when Trusova will actually get a clean 4S, but what she did today with that attempt is already something extraordinary.

 

[4everchan]

Yeah, well, I think it's really big words about "making history", just like Alexei in the last season with UR on 4Lo. But I guess people more don't agree with your writing form.

It's just kids! She's so little and when you start to write your different opinion in the form like this it could really hurt many people. I'm okay with your critics on ice dance, because I don't follow it, but please, if you're watching on young talents, please choose more polite and correct form, okay?

For example, my opinion: about her 4S I already said, also I think Sasha has not enough speed, and she needs to work on her spins. That's it. Just easy and calm. But when you start: oh no sorry no.. ugh ridiculous.. Eteri's school.. ugh mwah, blah... It's kind of rude.

I love Ted Barton's commentary because he is so polite, so supportive, and even when he criticizes a jump, he does it mildly... for instance he will say "oh this might have been slightly under-rotated but what a valiant effort"
And actually, the only posts where I am not supportive here isn't about Sasha's skating at all... it's about the fans calling for history. I think I have explained that. You are welcome to PM if you need further explanation.

 

[russianfan]

i have to agree. She did absolutely amazing, but we have to wait a little(i hope) to see a fully rotated jump on the competition, and that is gonna be really huge

P.S. too sad Anna is injured, that would be ridiculous to watch two tiny monsters doing quads at the freaking junior level

 

[puremagic]

I love Ted Barton's commentary because he is so polite, so supportive, and even when he criticizes a jump, he does it mildly... for instance he will say "oh this might have been slightly under-rotated but what a valiant effort"
And actually, the only posts where I am not supportive here isn't about Sasha's skating at all... it's about the fans calling for history. I think I have explained that. You are welcome to PM if you need further explanation.

I got it, 4everchan. And I agree with you about Ted's commentary (he's the best!) and about "making history". All what I'm saying that forum - it's not home where you're laying on couch, watching soccer and saying different thoughts about what you see.

 

[Ender]

The point for pushing the ladies further in technique is, there should be several ladies landing difficult jumps and stay on their feet the rest of the program. Asada did keep her 3A for long but she was scrutinized in other jumps. Now we have a new crop of young ladies like Rika Kihira who can do 8 triples without edge call, several young ladies who can do quad without falling the rest of the program. That's a huge progress. That's a leap. If these kids go on and do well, we will see other kids trying difficult stuffs and their consistency will go up as well.

 

[ice coverage]

Yeah, well, I think it's really big words about "making history", just like Alexei in the last season with UR on 4Lo. ...

For the record:

Krasnozhon received credit for FULL rotation of his quad loop -- per the protocol for JGP Ljubljana (Sep 23, 2016).

http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1617/jgpslo2016/jgpslo2016_JuniorMen_FS_Scores.pdf​

The jump was not underrotated.

The imperfection was that the landing was not clean. He did not fall, but the landing was not clean.

https://twitter.com/rockerskating/status/779399646091350017​

So it is accurate to say that Krasnozhon was the first to receive credit for full rotation of a quad loop.

(Note: I am not claiming that he was the first to "land" a quad loop. Different people have different criteria for what "landing" means. I am not taking a stand on that debate.)

---

Ted's beloved of so many fans now. He's a true champion of transparent and accessible coverage of competitive skating. And he is a technical controller who was involved in the genesis of the IJS.

But his day job is as the Executive Director of the British Columbia / Yukon section of Skate Canada...A region of mountains and difficult travel. He's a strong believer that young skaters and their coaches need to see the competition, and how they are judged, to make progress and that streamed and archived video coverage is the means to make it happen. He made the pitch to the ISU to stream and archive the JPG, and earned himself a commentator role.

I'd like to say that the rest of Canada has got on board, but he's been a champion domestically as well ....

Adding to everyone's praise for Ted Barton :agree: :luv17::

At the same time that he earned himself a commentator role for JGPs, I find it extremely admirable that he willingly accepted the concurrent roles of real-time video producer/editor/uploader. For [ETA: often] hundreds of individual program videos per JGP.

Multi-tasker extraordinaire and workhorse extraordinaire , as well as very enjoyable commentator.​

 

[eppen]

I completely agree. The scoring is ridiculously low across the board. It's like they decided to be extra harsh this year. [---]

It's very frustrating if completely incompetent judges are allowed to judge simply due to being from the host country.

Zagitova did only one year in juniors and in a way her position was the same in St Gervais last year despite being a year older than Trusova, a newbie in the JGP scene. Their PCS scores were 57.42 for Alina and 56.50 for Alexandra. And the scores given in general in this competition match those from last year more or less.

The Australian judge was Lisa Jelinek, who has been judging international elite skating comps for ISU at least for better part of a decade, so hardly incompetent? She was eg in Skate America last year doing the men's event and her scores were lower also there. That seems to be her style. Every now and then you see judges who give very high or very low scores compared to others and it's probably down to their personal preferences.

Loved Trusova, btw. Her technical content was super cool and as a performer she was more mature than Zagitova a year ago... Can't wait to see how the rest of the JGP season unfolds!

E

 

[puremagic]

For the record:

Krasnozhon received credit for FULL rotation of his quad loop -- per the protocol for JGP Ljubljana (Sep 23, 2016).

http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1617/jgpslo2016/jgpslo2016_JuniorMen_FS_Scores.pdf​

The jump was not underrotated.
​

Oh, I didn't know that. Somehow I thought that he got <. Thanks for information.​

 

[TGee]

Adding to everyone's praise for Ted Barton :agree: :luv17::

At the same time that he earned himself a commentator role for JGPs, I find it extremely admirable that he willingly accepted the concurrent roles of real-time video producer/editor/uploader. For [ETA: often] hundreds of individual program videos per JGP.

Multi-tasker extraordinaire and workhorse extraordinaire , as well as very enjoyable commentator.​

I suspect that it's not too much to say that he is, personally, responsible for the greatest growth in accessible skating coverage below the senior levels.

He's doing the same domestically, partnering with former pairs skater Debbie Wilkes, for Skate Canada Challenge, the December pre-nationals qualifier, and highest competition level for pre-novice. And last nationals, Ted and Debbie [with the occasional cameo from Kurt Browning] did the same for Junior and Novices nationals, and the senior flights at nationals that the broadcast media don't cover. Not to mention annual montages that are shown at Skate Canada's AGM that profile a diversity of skaters from across the country.

 

[champs]

Ando performed her 4S at the JGPF 2002 when she was 14.

Yes of course everyone knows the "first" one, but what I believed Yatagarasu had in mind was the lack of quad attempts in competitions in the past decade or so (in her reaction to 4everchan's statement that Trusova's 4S wasn't the first attempt in comp for that last 15 years) that's why I mentioned Ando's 4S< from 9 years ago. For a 4S attempt in a competition, Hicks also did one, albeit severely underrotated, 6 years ago, predating her first JGP participation.

 

[xabia]

Who's the guy in the green jacket with Trusova in the K&C? I've seen him before (many times) but he never gets a credit. Is he the choreo (no that's someone else) - the sub coach, or what?

 

[ines42575]

Who's the guy in the green jacket with Trusova in the K&C? I've seen him before (many times) but he never gets a credit. Is he the choreo (no that's someone else) - the sub coach, or what?

His name is Daniil Gleykhengauz. He is an assistant coach and choreographer in Tutberidze's group

 

[Shayuki]

Zagitova did only one year in juniors and in a way her position was the same in St Gervais last year despite being a year older than Trusova, a newbie in the JGP scene. Their PCS scores were 57.42 for Alina and 56.50 for Alexandra. And the scores given in general in this competition match those from last year more or less.

The Australian judge was Lisa Jelinek, who has been judging international elite skating comps for ISU at least for better part of a decade, so hardly incompetent? She was eg in Skate America last year doing the men's event and her scores were lower also there. That seems to be her style. Every now and then you see judges who give very high or very low scores compared to others and it's probably down to their personal preferences.

Loved Trusova, btw. Her technical content was super cool and as a performer she was more mature than Zagitova a year ago... Can't wait to see how the rest of the JGP season unfolds!

E

I am the only one who sees bolded as completely ridiculous? You're judging, it's not about your "style" or "preference". You do your job competently or, if you don't, you get dismissed like in any job.

That she was judging incorrectly earlier doesn't mean that it's OK that she judges incorrectly now as well. It only makes it worse. Who is holding the judges responsible? Failing to do so, more accurately.

 

[thoakun]

Very impressed by Trusova. There're ways to many Russian juniors cropping up that I feel overwhelmed but she really has something special. It's mind blogging to see such technical prowess and performance quality in a girl who just celebrated her 13th birthday 2 months ago :eeking:.

I remember reading an interview with Miki in which she mentioned the meaning of the 4S. She has always been a good jumper, so the 4S was a natural progression for her and she didn't think much about it at that time. She actually didn't know that she made history because she didn't understand what the announcer said on that day. She only learned about it the next day, when reporters flocked to her to inquire about the significance of her 4S.

I guess for Trusova, 4S is part of her plan to conquer the world :dev2:. So different context, different judging system, but it doesn't take away the achievements of both skaters .

I'm not familiar with Japanese junior ladies but I'm pleased to see good skating skills and edge controls are still emphasized in the training of young skaters. They are also brimming with personality to become their own types of skaters.

 

[Wilwarin]

Went through all photos of ladies FS and found my fav is Amelia's dress because unconsciously I took so many photos of her

 

[xabia]

Thanks ines!

 

[eppen]

I am the only one who sees bolded as completely ridiculous? You're judging, it's not about your "style" or "preference". You do your job competently or, if you don't, you get dismissed like in any job.

That she was judging incorrectly earlier doesn't mean that it's OK that she judges incorrectly now as well. It only makes it worse. Who is holding the judges responsible? Failing to do so, more accurately.

I was inspired to look at the scoring a bit more accurately and chart who gave the low and the high marks in both ladies and men (I do think that it is better to have a bit more data to back your conclusions). In the ladies SP, the low scores were given mostly by the judges from Taipei and Hong Kong – Jelinek from Australia was only 3rd. The high marks came predominantly from the Russian ja Mexican judges. In the FS, Jelinek dominated the low score particularly in the top 10 skaters, the Russian and Mexican judges were still giving most of the high scores. In the FS, the Russian judge gave the highest score to both Russian girls - national bias or fair judging? In Guliakova's case she was even the clear outlier in the high end.

In the men’s event, the low scores came from Australia (not Jelinek, btw) and Hong Kong followed by Taipei. The Russian judge gave the highest scores to 10/15 skaters. In the FS, the Chinese judge was the stingiest scorer with Hong Kong and Taipei following. Again, the Russian judge loved 12/15 skaters by giving them the highest PCS scores.

The Australian judge’s scores in the ladies are very much within the same range as the others, just on the lower end. In the FS for the Russian girls, she is in the “average/above average” range (5.00-6.75) together with judge nr 2 and the rest went with the lower part of the “good” range (7.00-7.75). The Russian judges in the singles events chose to use the higher end of the scale. Howver, all these judges were consistent in their scoring, there are no surprises along the way, no inexplicable vacillation between.

They all clearly work within the ISU scoring system, but choose to use the different ends of the scale available to them. That does not make any of them blatantly incorrect or incompetent, does it?

The ISU rules give you guidelines as to what needs to be done, but as far as I know, the judges have to decide for themselves how to interpret those rules and what things they maybe appreciate particularly much in each category. There is no absolute one correct way to judge the skaters, and judges use in their work their knowledge and education on skating and judging, their personal judging ideals, preferences, maybe even national traditions, and, yes, can form their own styles.

We have all been graded in exams at school and most have probably encountered tough and lenient teachers - the general criteria might be exactly the same, but how the teachers apply the criteria varies according to their personal ideals and preferences. This is not so different.

E

 

[Spirals for Miles]

I was really impressed by Sophie Abrams! (it was my first time seeing her) Her flexibility and skating skills are astounding, and I think that she has the technique with which the rest of her triples will come more easily than those of some of the other girls in competition

 

[puremagic]

I was really impressed by Sophie Abrams! (it was my first time seeing her) Her flexibility and skating skills are astounding, and I think that she has the technique with which the rest of her triples will come more easily than those of some of the other girls in competition

Agree. She has very good skating skills. Beautiful skating.