2017 Skate Canada Challenge

[TGee]

Thought I'd drop a note in at this point to underscore how Challenge rankings relate to slots for Nationals.

At at nationals there are for novice, juniors and seniors the following total number of slots....

Men 18
Women 18
Pairs 12
Ice Dance 15

But if there are already competitors with byes, then only the remaining slots are competed for at Challenge.

Mango gave an example at the top of the thread that in senior women, when we deduct the 3 top who have byes, there are 15 slots left for the Challenge competitors other than Gabby Daleman (who has a bye).

The senior men men will be more complex. Seems that many of them have byes, but as I can't seem to find a list for that, and the byes aren't listed at the bottom of the Challenge start orders, it's unclear. By my estimate as many as 8 senior men have byes for nationals ....

Here's the relevant SC page:

https://skatecanada.ca/national-team/qualifying-structure1/

 

[Mango]

TGee thanks for your detailed explanation. I misunderstood, sorry. But I think what you're saying is going to be hard to actually do. Because parents bankroll practically everything here I can see them having their kids move on to other activities or even focusing on education more if they realize their kids are late bloomers. That kind of system seems to favour the kids who have something special (like Patrick's deep edges and SS) even if they don't have their TES. I agree though that coaches need to be honest about girls who don't have their triples by a certain time.

Piper and Paul!!!!! 80.04!! I think that's the highest SD score ever given nationally. The good thing: everything was level 4. The PCS I don't expect to see internationally but they can hit their levels.

Stephen

Disappointed for Orzel.

Lajoie/Lagha set a Canadian record with 153.86 points. Tessa & Scott had the record previously with 151.35 at 2005 JGP Andorra (after SC removed the CD score). Took 11 years.

 

[TGee]

TGee thanks for your detailed explanation. I misunderstood, sorry. But I think what you're saying is going to be hard to actually do. Because parents bankroll practically everything here I can see them having their kids move on to other activities or even focusing on education more if they realize their kids are late bloomers.

Yup, this is the problem... the early biologically developing kids who seem to have the athletic talent early on in the "Learn to Train" development stage are less likely to be successful as elected athletes down the line. But their parents see the success and are more likely to be willing to invest in their kids' success.

Some good quotes from Sport Canada...

Advantage of late developers
Late developers (those who enter puberty later than their peers) have an advantage when it comes to learning skills, as the Learn to Train stage lasts longer for them. They can often become better sport performers in the long term because of the longer period of skill development that they enjoy.
Disadvantage of late developers
Still, early bloomers often get selected over late bloomers because of the emphasis that coaches and parents often put on competition outcomes at the youth level. It is important that sport organizations provide late bloomers with an equal opportunity to train and develop within the sport, so that they do not get overlooked or excluded in the development of the larger pool of future athlete talent.

http://canadiansportforlife.ca/learn-train/more-about-learn-train

On the other hand, if you have a child who's on the small side and on a slower growth track, sports like skating, gymnastics, and diving are among a small set of viable activity options. And if your child is tiny and a late bloomer, finding a sport that works is important for health and social development regardless of competitive potential. The science is finding that poor aerobic capacity and obesity lead to lower academic outcomes....so getting kids out of sport and focusing on solely on education is not a smart choice for parents, and folks are becoming more aware....

Interestingly, some systems, especially state funded ones like Russia's have been able to select the right kids for gymnastics and now skating. The US seems to be doing it right for gymnastics, despite parent funding.

 

[nadster]

Stephen

Lajoie/Lagha set a Canadian record with 153.86 points. Tessa & Scott had the record previously with 151.35 at 2005 JGP Andorra (after SC removed the CD score). Took 11 years.

Great Lajoie/ Lagha. :agree::hap93:

Personally I don't like this record idea when you are comparing different requirements and different BV's over the years. Also the top skaters in the early years of IJS never got nearly the PCS scores that they get today.

 

[Tastetherainbow]

The problem with the Boys/Eddy siblings is that she can't jump at all. She often struggles to even rotate a double flip. And obviously those issues will relate to the throws as well. They always had a great twist though.

Brasseur/Ostiguy can do throw triple loop and salchow but this year the teams must do toe , lutz or flip in the SP. The base value for throw 3T is too low in my opinion. It has the same base value as throw 3S and many pairs can do a throw triple loop but struggle with throw 3T. The use of a toe pick always makes the throw harder.

Right now Ostiguy is clearly a placeholder until they find a suitable partner for Brasseur. She is obviously focusing more on singles as she won the Quebec sectional competition and has added a loop to her singles. The coaches know her destiny is pairs though. The problem is that she can't advance any more in pairs with Ostiguy as a partner as he is simply not strong enough for her. Hopefully they will find a suitable partner soon.

Absolutely agree with your evaluation. In my opinion, I feel like Brasseur/Boys-Eddy would be an interesting combination. Mackenzie has the strength to do a good twist, he just needs to work on literally everything else though, so maybe a long-term pairing would work out. Then Ostiguy can be paired with Olivia Boys-Eddy and slowly work on pairs elements such as lifts and twists as his is, to be frank, abysmal (I also think Olivia looks smaller and lighter than Brasseur, so that might help) and also the jumps.

 

[cathlen]

80 points for Piper & Paul? YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSS :yes2: Need to find a video!

 

[TGee]

80 points for Piper & Paul? YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSS :yes2: Need to find a video!

Don't see that any of the senior dance, livestream replay, warm-up group or individual videos are posted as yet.

 

[TGee]

I found the senior pairs SP replay....minus Séguin/Bilodeau

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x546hqv_2017-sc-challenge-senior-pair-short_sport

But Séguin/Bilodeau's was filed separately here..

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5...-short-julianne-seguin-charlie-bilodeau_sportf

-----------------------------------

Senior pairs FS

Jones/Regan and Moore-Towers / Marinaro are here

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x549n6j_2017-sc-challenge-senior-pair-free_sport

and Ruest/Wolfe are here

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x549mt3_2017-sc-challenge-senior-pair-free-ruest-wolfe_sport

 

[TGee]

Senior women's SP is resuming after the supper break.

Gabby Daleman is the second skater in the warm up group now on the ice.

--------------

editing to add..

Gabby's SP score 69.21. 3T-3T looked solid, but fell later...Overall, looking like she's back on track though

Michelle Long skated directly after to Hallelujah....not a great vehicle or skate for her. 47.27 :shocked:

 

[TGee]

Anyone looking for livestream, but seeing "channel offline" on the SC page, just click on the link under the rink you want to go through to the appropriate Dailymotion page. Those are working ..

 

[olayolay]

Giving Gilles/Poirier an 80+ in the SD is just silly to me. I know inflation happens at these events, but this is just so unproductive. Might as well mark them like real international judges would to give them actual feedback they can use and work on. Otherwise what's the point?

 

[tinlizzie]

Giving Gilles/Poirier an 80+ in the SD is just silly to me. I know inflation happens at these events, but this is just so unproductive. Might as well mark them like real international judges would to give them actual feedback they can use and work on. Otherwise what's the point?

Well maybe they really did deserve 80+ We will just have to wait and see the video before we judge. But I do agree with you if it's not worthy of 80+ :thumbsup:

 

[TGee]

Senior Women's SP

After Gabby Daleman, we see a strong showing from last year's top juniors...

1. Gabrielle Daleman 69.21
2. Sarah Tamura 59.55
3. Alicia Pineault. 55.07

 

[aarower]

Senior Women's SP

After Gabby Daleman, we see a strong showing from last year's top juniors...

1. Gabrielle Daleman 60.21
2. Sarah Tamura 59.55
3. Alicia Pineault. 55.07

Gabrielle Daleman - 69.21

 

[ChiquitaBanana]

So much competition from a very young age as seems to be popular in Quebec favours the early developers, and can shut out those who are latest in peak growth and puberty. But skating, like gymnastics and diving, favours in he long run the girls who are latest in peak growth and puberty....less early polish, but achieving much higher specialized technical skills before their growth spurts.

I totally agree with you. :thumbsup: Too many competitions, they are pushing the young ones into pre-juvenile (sans limite) with skating taking too much of the young skaters time instead of focussing on developing athletes with strength and power. The focus is on skating polish at a young age, which has to be taught, but not solely. They will polish with time. I want to see more global development. I see girls peaking early on (pre-novice) but not surviving above that level. An athlete needs to develop a whole alphabet of movements and these young skaters are very good at skating, but do not have the extra movements repertoire required to be a top contender later on.

 

[ChiquitaBanana]

Absolutely agree with your evaluation. In my opinion, I feel like Brasseur/Boys-Eddy would be an interesting combination. Mackenzie has the strength to do a good twist, he just needs to work on literally everything else though, so maybe a long-term pairing would work out. Then Ostiguy can be paired with Olivia Boys-Eddy and slowly work on pairs elements such as lifts and twists as his is, to be frank, abysmal (I also think Olivia looks smaller and lighter than Brasseur, so that might help) and also the jumps.

Olivia B.E. with Ostiguy would be a great match imo. Not so sure about Mackenzie and Justine. He cannot jump for the sake of his life and I feel most of the 3 twist comes from having a flea as a partner. Justine has long legs, is taller and heavier than Olivia.

 

[ChiquitaBanana]

Chiquita are the rules at QC sectionals different than at Challenge/Nationals? They actually did a fantastic 3T+2T+2T at Championnats A. But the combo at Challenge...yeah. The Boys-Eddy siblings had a rough FS and still beat Brasseur/Ostiguy. On one hand I'm happy SC is not inflating them to high heaven. On the other I'm concerned. Maybe they're just having a off competition. The strange thing though is that I expected Justine to be tired from double duty (singles & pairs). But it was Mathieu who made mistakes. Well, Matte/Ferland and Walsh/Michaud look ready to take the top two spots at Nationals so we won't need to worry about B/O at Junior Worlds this year.

I meant to say that SBS triple jumps are not allowed in junior SP. Only SBS 2Lo or SBS 2A this year.

As for B/O, I'd say Braseur seems a little taller and is going through puberty, starting to fill in (as it is expected), so lots of adjustments. As for making mistakes on the SBS jumps, I guess the kids are learning to compete under pressure, under expectations. They are at the stage "learning to win" and it seems the pressure got to Ostiguy. Life is a constant learning experience, as is a skating career.

 

[TGee]

Wanted to drop a line to express thanks to ChiquitaBanana, Nadster and others who have been dropping in with info, analysis and corrections. :2thumbs::2thumbs:

Mango started a "State of Canadian Figure Skating" thread on the Edge, and we'd love to have you join in that discussion too.


We're doing our best to make it a place for sincere and constructive discussion...

You will find that we do post some fan info and cheers there as the only Canadian skater Fan Fest that is constantly active is Patrick Chan's, but it's the place to discuss Canadian skating and skaters from pre-juvenile up, whether current or past.

 

[chuckm]

If G/P get 80 for the SD and 116.24 for the FD, then at Nationals it must follow that V/M will get 95 for the SD and 122 for the FD, n'est-ce pas? The big question: Where do W/P fit in the scheme of things?

 

[cathlen]

If G/P get 80 for the SD and 116.24 for the FD, then at Nationals it must follow that V/M will get 95 for the SD and 122 for the FD, n'est-ce pas? The big question: Where do W/P fit in the scheme of things?

Max SD score is 84 and I think judges know that Everybody knows it's inflated, but I'm glad Skate Canada supports G/P. They have brilliant dances this season, it should be rewarded, though it's obvious their PCS won't be as high intenationally as here.