2018 Canadian Nationals Senior Free Dance

[Anyasnake]

So true!

I also just had a nightmarish flashback of the horrendous version of My Fair Lady that D/W used for the Olympic season. After the perfection of Giselle (and you gotta give D/W props for winning their worlds in Moscow, and London, Ontario) I was so pissed :dev2:

This wasn't their best SD it's true. But it did the job for sure.
Winning world on the enemy territory deserves all the points

 

[BravesSkateFan]

D/W are the ones from Olympic Gold Medalists in ice dance, whose dance I will never have the wish to re-watch.
V/M deserved the Gold in Sochi. T/D and G/P - the only 2 times Olympic Gold medalists and nowadays V/M are the teams to be remembered forever.

Funny, because they are the only Dance I've ever rewatched. They are reason I got into dance.

 

[dcnative]

Tracy : "this is a National pane generously rewarding a top class team" hahaha

I have to thank her for her honesty.

I really feel sorry for this team.

 

[Lester]

I was watching the practice videos earlier this week, and there I felt this "itsobeautifulIwanttocry" thing for Virtue/Moir when I saw them float across the ice during a chunk of their program, their ease of movement and interpretation, and I thought to myself, so it's true, they are untouchable and amazing and sublime in every way, but while I was watching their free dance during the competition, I didn't get the same feeling [and judging by the audience's and commentator's reactions I was probably the only one]. I mean they are still unparalleled in what they do and it has improved as a program since the Grand Prix competitions but I continue to find it somewhat uninspiring and one-note. Maybe not a program I'd give 120+ pts to
I feel there is so much they can successfully interpret on the ice and I regret that they continue to put out unexceptional romantic mush like last years' FD but whatever gets them going I guess.

 

[Anyasnake]

I have to thank her for her honesty.

I really feel sorry for this team.

Well it's competition. But I understand in a way. They almost became World champs at least twice (2014,2015). Surely they didn't expect to be beaten by newcomers in 2015, but the change really occured in 2016.

But really, it does feel like there was some motivation lacking. I get it, you know that's it's going to be 99% impossible to beat V/M, you were constantly in their shadow, since 2011. But unless of showing up with confidence (the one they had in 2015 that made them stand out so much), they felt less... "big". "Okay we're going to settle for Canada #2". But now they are #3.

Look at P/C : they started with a 9-point loss to V/M and finally managed to overtake them at GPF. They upgraded their technique big time since 2016. I don't think this is just a case of one team, even H/D did so, why WeaPo can't seem to do it ? They have the speed, the lines, eve the reputation, they could manage to challenge them at least a bit.
If V/M are even better skaters now, why does WeaPo feel like they gave everything and somehow cannot upgrade their tools too ?

You have to say : I'm going for World #1 spot if you want to at least get 5th in a way. Shibs always say : "we are going for OGM, we want to the best in the world". H/D say : "we want to challenge #1 and #2 big time" (according to Patrice Lauzon, H/D put some pressure on them with their skating). Mentally that's what's best for you, you have nothing to lose.

 

[keasus]

We should have a Davis & White bashing thread. Oh, wait. We have the 2018 Canadian Nationals ice dance thread. Never mind.

Yeah, some people can't ever get over that D/W beat V/M decisively at numerous competitions post Vancouver. How dare they! D/W were worthy competitors to V/M; hell, even V/M said as much. It's one thing if a team's style does not suit one's taste, but to dismiss any team as the weakest link in the ice dancing chain EVER, is ridiculous. Ice dancing has taken many forms over the years from classic British ballroom (Towler/Ford), to the theatrical Russian style (e.g., Besti/Buhkin. Klimova/Ponomerenko). to the ultra modern (Duschesnays). etc. Dance, even on ice, has myriad variations,

 

[MelDee]

I was watching the practice videos earlier this week, and there I felt this "itsobeautifulIwanttocry" thing for Virtue/Moir when I saw them float across the ice during a chunk of their program, their ease of movement and interpretation, and I thought to myself, so it's true, they are untouchable and amazing and sublime in every way, but while I was watching their free dance during the competition, I didn't get the same feeling [and judging by the audience's and commentator's reactions I was probably the only one]. I mean they are still unparalleled in what they do and it has improved as a program since the Grand Prix competitions but I continue to find it somewhat uninspiring and one-note. Maybe not a program I'd give 120+ pts to
I feel there is so much they can successfully interpret on the ice and I regret that they continue to put out unexceptional romantic mush like last years' FD but whatever gets them going I guess.

You're not the only one.

 

[ancientpeas]

Again I feel the need to state: Tracy never said anything negative about D/W. She expressed her opinion: V/M are the best ever to her. (she even said "In my opinion"). Now V/M have the "Tracy Wilson thinks we are the GOAT" award. Big deal. Like seriously.. big deal. I'm going to give Kurt Browning my GOAT award and I'm sure that will make up for his lack of Olympic Gold.

 

[Barb]

You have to say : I'm going for World #1 spot if you want to at least get 5th in a way. Shibs always say : "we are going for OGM, we want to the best in the world". H/D say : "we want to challenge #1 and #2 big time" (according to Patrice Lauzon, H/D put some pressure on them with their skating). Mentally that's what's best for you, you have nothing to lose.

I know probably the 100% of their interviews and they are not always saying that. I am sure they think about it and they want it, and I don´t have problem with them saying that, but I think they said it maybe once or twice in all their career, so I don´t understand why did you say that they ALWAYS say it. The most of the time they are: ¨We want to be the best team that we can be¨ a phrase that many people find boring and many skaters use it, lol.

 

[Anyasnake]

I know probably the 100% of their interviews and they are not always saying that. I am sure they think about it and they want it, and I don´t have problem with them saying that, but I think they said it maybe once or twice in all their career, so I don´t understand why did you say that they ALWAYS say it. The most of the time they are: ¨We want to be the best team that we can be¨ a phrase that many people find boring and many skaters use it, lol.

I've heard them say that a couple of times at US Nats, that's why lol. Maybe not always But I don't remember them saying we're going to challenge top 2, ever but like you said : ¨We want to be the best team that we can be¨.

 

[ChanClan]

Guys I was so emotional at the end of VM FD. Seeing it live was a dream come true. Whether they win the Olympic or not, they will always be the best to me.

Tessa and Scott, it's been such an honour to watch you guys grow. From your first nationals win 10 years ago in the very place you win your 8th and last national title, to seeing you win the Olympics on home soil, to the years of struggle and injuries, to first seeing Carmen because man do I love that program, to your absolute perfect programs in Sochi, to the off years, to the comeback, to choosing your Olympic music because it's what you want, to changing it up, to challenging yourselves, to always doing something different, to striving to be the best dancers and skaters you can be. You will be so very missed. <3

 

[keasus]

Again I feel the need to state: Tracy never said anything negative about D/W. She expressed her opinion: V/M are the best ever to her. (she even said "In my opinion"). Now V/M have the "Tracy Wilson thinks we are the GOAT" award. Big deal. Like seriously.. big deal. I'm going to give Kurt Browning my GOAT award and I'm sure that will make up for his lack of Olympic Gold.

To quote a great movie (Blazing Saddles), Kurt Browning didn't need "no stinkin' OGM" to be considered as one of the GOATs.

 

[slider11]

Tracy Wilson has been replaced by Tanith White for commentating on the US NBC ice dance Olympic coverage. So that gives Tracy the green light to be a proud Canadian and express her opinion about Virtue and Moir. She's entitled!

 

[Skater Boy]

You're not the only one.

I agree to a point. I don't think Virtue and Moir or Davis and White and I would putP/C even a step lower are ice dance very best. it is hard to compare with different rules but the greats to me are some of the old Russian greats I don't even know their names, Torvil and Dean and Klimova and Ponomorenko. We tend to favor skaters of our times. That being said it seems the judges have favored and not necessarily on merit the French who will win the gold. I prefer their FD music and style and agree they should not be docked for a limited relatively range of programs but I prefer this year V and M skating over all. I do not think the American trio are of the same league.

 

[all that]

I've heard W/P say they want to be the best lots of times. It takes more than the right mindset and motivation to be the best though. You need actual ability and the right coaching. W/P are like Belbin and Agosto. They can't win unless people better than them aren't at their best.

And my dislike of D/W has nothing to do with V/M. It has to do with D/W's skating and dancing.

 

[Matt K]

We should have a Davis & White bashing thread. Oh, wait. We have the 2018 Canadian Nationals ice dance thread. Never mind.

Well, we have people here dragging V/M too, so it is not anti-D/W at all.

 

[Matt K]

I couldn't have said it better.

What an unecessary bashing of D/W there is in this thread ? Sochi was 4 years ago, do people still feel the need to show insecurities ? D/W are among the fiercest, craziest competitors EVER in Ice Dance. They decided to end up on an OGM and they certainly have nothing to prove to anyone. They are not "already forgotten" and never will be, as much as people would like to. Too bad (If you want that to happen, stop talking about them then).
They have been praised for their work ethic, commitment to the sport, consistency and so on. While you might not necessarily enjoy watching them, it's hard not to see why they have been beaten only twice in a whole quad, that is just mind-blowing. They also didn't make more than one mistake in their 2 last seasons. Who does that ? And their OGM is well deserved, they were crazy good in Sochi... and in Vancouver ! (Bollywood anyone ?).
While some people think they wouldn't have stand a chance artistically against V/M or P/C in this quad, I don't think so. I see D/W in shows and frankly I'm seeing a side of them that I wished I had seen on the ice. The stress gone, the freedom of getting show numbers choregraphed by people from the non-skating world, I've been enjoying them so much perhaps as equally as hen they were competiting.
Yes when someone starts to win everything, you usually follow in the footsteps to make sure you have the right recipe - they same way everyone showed up last season with lyrical music. That's why Marina gave V/M similar construction in elements where in fact they didn't need it. Ice Dance wasn't going to go all circus, but it was redefining. Nobody would like it to just stop evolving.

I don't think Tracy Wilson is helping by adding her comments, but surprisingly enough, I've never seen her so biased, especially since she did commentary on the American broadcast - most recent was Worlds 2016 (?) with Ben Agosto (that was really good). Of course she is politicking/campaigning for her skaters/team and there is nothing wrong with that. But I'm a casual canadian viewer, the Olympics are coming, how am I going to react if "the greatest team of all time" doesn't win ? Say that after the Olympics, with OGM or OSM - because, surprise : an OGM does not define you or your skating (Michelle never got one). It's not always about winning, it's about what you bring (winning and competition should be left to skaters).

All those teams : D/W, V/M, P/C, etc, just continue to bring to the sport in the footsteps of the best ID of all times. Shibutanis might be with D/W a reason to bring Ice Dance to the light of people in the US since they are great ambassadors and using platforms for it. H/D have a raw quality to their skating that could bring them all the way to the top in the quad to come.
And I can go on and on, but it's been a LONG time since we've had that many good teams at once.

Well of course you would say this. I could also point out, that your American bias presupposes you to defend D/W at every turn too, even though the criticisms levelled at them are all to do with their lack of skating and dancing abilities. And what did you think of all the times that D/W and any American ice dancing team was politicked by their own federation. Or when Judy Blumberg made horribly critical comments about V/M and then later went to be a technical specialist at international events where V/M competed?

Do you realize that Tracy Wilson is not a judge? She is a fan like everybody else. Just like you rabidly defending D/W. She is just a fan. A rabid one, of course, but I doubt international judges at the Olympics listens to her.

 

[Anyasnake]

Well of course you would say this. I could also point out, that your American bias presupposes you to defend D/W at every turn too, even though the criticisms levelled at them are all to do with their lack of skating and dancing abilities. And what did you think of all the times that D/W and any American ice dancing team was politicked by their own federation. Or when Judy Blumberg made horribly critical comments about V/M and then later went to be a technical specialist at international events where V/M competed?

Do you realize that Tracy Wilson is not a judge? She is a fan like everybody else. Just like you rabidly defending D/W. She is just a fan. A rabid one, of course, but I doubt international judges at the Olympics listens to her.

My American bias ? :shocked: Where is this even coming from ? Through the years, my favourite Ice Dance teams were never American. And I'm not even from the US, I'm from Europe. And I liked D/W as much as I liked V/M back in the days, I didn't care who would win actually. I wasn't really invested. Perhaps you are mistaking me for someone else.

I will defend D/W for one reason : they are NOT currently competiting, so it's easy to attack them, throwing things. They have an OGM that they very much deserved. ALso you think that anyone can throw shade at one team and get away with it that easily ? It's wrong.

I'll never get when people say : "this team has their federation politicking for them, how bad". Of course. EVERYONE does. You really think Skate Canada isn't doing the same with V/M ? Or that they are "too good" for that ?
There are many competition that have debatable results, and where V/M are taking a part, let's not pretend that either. Skate Canada president is a judge, that is not right too. Would you have liked USFS president to be a judge in Sochi ? Because that is going to happen in Korea.

I only got surprised by Tracy Wilson because in the past, she used to comment on American TV. So there was absolutely no bias from her. I just got surprised at how much she was here. Well not even biased but really pushing it. It's not that wrong, it's nationals. Like I said, she is campaigning for her skaters too.

 

[KKonas]

D/W are not only the weakest OGM in ice dancing history, but I think the weakest by a long mile and will hold this title for as long as ice dancing remains a sport in the Olympics. They are already forgotten and I think the reason they did not try to defend their (questionable) Olympic title is because well, they knew that they would get quashed. They saw the high, unprecedented level of skating, expression, and style exhibited by P/C in the 2015 and 2016 years, and with V/M's comeback in 2017 in which they beat P/C, it was very wise for D/W to opt out. Ice dancing experienced an anomaly with D/W's "win" in 2013-2014, where ice dance reverted backwards to not being ice dancing at all, but some very mangled conception of what ice dancing is. I think that many (perhaps skaters, coaches, and those who spent much time in the sport) and fans were troubled during this time. Articles from skating coaches and skaters popped up criticizing if not D/W, then the style of ice dancing that came to be under D/W's years. Very legitimate, of course. Except of course, the Americans. They needed badly for a first ever ice dance gold and needed an ice dance team to prop up. The likes of Phil Hersh and Christine Brennan contributed to this US media spin, of course. Coincidentally, they are my least favorite sports "journalists" of all time.

After D/W's retirement, ice dancing has become ice dancing again, and progressed and advanced even further thanks to P/C. Now that V/M have made a successful comeback, these two teams will contribute to possibly the greatest ever ice dancing rivalry that we have ever seen. The 2018 Olympic performances between V/M and P/C will be one for the ages that we have not seen ever. It will truly be a spectacular and extraordinary event the likes with which we have never witnessed.

Well I have worked in the press room with both Phil Hersh and Christine Brennan for approximately 30 years. Both of them and I have undoubtedly seen more competitions live than most commenting here. I don't always agree with Phil & Christine, but they are true sports journalists. Any one can have an opinion, but actual experience is a better judge.

 

[Matt K]

My American bias ? :shocked: Where is this even coming from ? Through the years, my favourite Ice Dance teams were never American. And I'm not even from the US, I'm from Europe. And I liked D/W as much as I liked V/M back in the days, I didn't care who would win actually. I wasn't really invested. Perhaps you are mistaking me for someone else.

I will defend D/W for one reason : they are NOT currently competiting, so it's easy to attack them, throwing things. They have an OGM that they very much deserved. ALso you think that anyone can throw shade at one team and get away with it that easily ? It's wrong.

I'll never get when people say : "this team has their federation politicking for them, how bad". Of course. EVERYONE does. You really think Skate Canada isn't doing the same with V/M ? Or that they are "too good" for that ?
There are many competition that have debatable results, and where V/M are taking a part, let's not pretend that either. Skate Canada president is a judge, that is not right too. Would you have liked USFS president to be a judge in Sochi ? Because that is going to happen in Korea.

I only got surprised by Tracy Wilson because in the past, she used to comment on American TV. So there was absolutely no bias from her. I just got surprised at how much she was here. Well not even biased but really pushing it. It's not that wrong, it's nationals. Like I said, she is campaigning for her skaters too.

People are not throwing "shade" at D/W and getting away with it. You act like this is that "Real Housewives" show that you Americans watch in the USA where that term is inexplicably used all the time amongst the "housewives".

People have rightly said, that D/W were not great skaters and ice dancers in their time. Just like how you say that you hate V/M's routines, that is also your right to say. For myself, I cannot bring myself to admire a team whose only claim to fame is changing the rules of ice dancing to some hoppy, skippy, version of what they call quick and precise skating skills. I cannot come to think of great ice dancers whose edges are shallow and care little about interpretation, as is the case with D/W.

I watched some D/W's routines as of late. And boy, they don't age well. Their edges are as shallow as ever and the 2014 SD was the epitome of abominable interpretation.

You are "throwing shade" at V/M everywhere in your posts, and you think you can get away with that? Yes, you can criticize them. That is your right. But I already have made my points very clear as to what I dislike about D/W's performances and skating over the years in my many posts here. It may be hard for you to believe but people genuinely don't think D/W are among the greats skaters and ice dancers.

And it IS because V/M are now competing that much more dirt is thrown at them than if they had stayed retired. And that includes dirt from you. But that is okay since you are entitled to an opinion. Generally, and speaking broadly, insults to V/M, Tessa, and Scott individually as well as a combination of them have been subjected to far greater leniency historically on this board. V/M have been major targets of people on this board from the last Olympics and even before that, when they first won silver in 2008.