2018 Europeans Free Dance

[Anyasnake]

You guys are so pessimistic towards S/B and B/S

I found B/S to be a bit old fashionned and not using their (very good) glide on the ice at their advantage. Sometimes there are some very nice edge work, and boom a choreographic moment make them stop and look sloppy. But they have a maturity on the ice that you can appreciate.

S/B are quite edgy and that's why their SD works, but their FD not as well. But they are so powerful with incredible lines, they just gotten better. But I have to say, they still lack a bit on the technical. The lifts are superb, so is their spin. Twizzles lack a bit of ice coverage, and step sequences are their weakest points. When we were talking about "clean turns" you could see sometimes Ivan "jump" from an edge to another (that is no for a level4), they could also go much deeper. But that can be corrected. They will be podium contenders next year for sure at Worlds.

 

[icedance]

Like I have mentioned it is hard to feel bad for anna and Luca - they have had along career and they have a worldtitle andwhile they arguably deserved it sodoes Weaver and Poje, The shibutani's, Chock and BAtes, Hubbell and Donahoe, B/S et al and all o r almost all of them will leave without a world title. So nothing against the Italians they have had their 15 seconds of fame something equally as good teams will not experience.

Show some respect please!

 

[gmyers]

You guys are so pessimistic towards S/B and B/S

I found B/S to be a bit old fashionned and not using their (very good) glide on the ice at their advantage. Sometimes there are some very nice edge work, and boom a choreographic moment make them stop and look sloppy. But they have a maturity on the ice that you can appreciate.

S/B are quite edgy and that's why their SD works, but their FD not as well. But they are so powerful with incredible lines, they just gotten better. But I have to say, they still lack a bit on the technical. The lifts are superb, so is their spin. Twizzles lack a bit of ice coverage, and step sequences are their weakest points. When we were talking about "clean turns" you could see sometimes Ivan "jump" from an edge to another (that is no for a level4), they could also go much deeper. But that can be corrected. They will be podium contenders next year for sure at Worlds.

That’s too optimistic! Who are they? P/c? Going from 10th in 2017 to 3rd or 4th in 2019?

 

[Chantilly]

If CDs returned, PC would still be scored higher. PC are simply the greatest team of all time ever. Their skating is perfect, their expression is perfect, their interpretation is perfect, and the judges agree. Rows and rows of +3s and 10s, and that's when they aren't even putting their full energy into it!! No need for Nats inflation for them. They will crush VM and every team at the Olympics, and at every competition they enter from now until they retire, which I hope is at least a decade from now!

It is way too early to be making statements like this. Anyway I am not sure there is a GOAT. I think that there are way too many fantastic dances teams currently and from the past to be able to make that claim.

I also think comparing teams from the pre-IJS era and now is not measuring apples with apples. the sport has changed dramatically with the new scoring system and continues to change. Dancers in the past had far more freedom in designing their programs, save the compulsories.

I think it is fruitless, pointless and unfair to compare the teams from the previous era and now.

 

[alain06fr]

I really love the music and their performance and the score doesn't matter here it is the placement which is correct. HOWEVER, p/c have essentially been crowned ogm and I feel that whilei u nderstand while people like them and their music over say Moulin Rouge - the better ice dancers imho are VM. i don't like Scott that much sometimes and what he says or how he says, it; I don't like mr but if you coudl seaprate your like or dislike for the muszic they really are the better team - better edges, better in equalness and quality but the magic that pc has which I would say vm matches easily somehow the judges forgive that Gabby while not horrible and im proved is noticeably not as good as Guiaumme. We have already said it doesn't really matter that pc have issues or a lack of ability to do the romantic, lyrical yes, but for whatever reason they don't come off too convincing when it comes to romantic type skates. Something very soft about about Cizeron's skating - like Toller Cranston - artsy, soft, almost balletic but no romance with Gabby. Still deserved or not the judges have seen to take a liking to pc even in the short which I thin favours V?m. if the compulsories were back I think we would see V/M ahead as the lack of versatility of pc would show more - they aren't horrible but just not as consistently wonderful at all dances unlike V/M. But life isn't fair. VM better get used to not winning because it won't happen.

Well, these are very weird arguments. Basically, you're saying that Moonlight Sonata is a better program compared to Moulin Rouge but for the rest, V/M is better than P/C. It's really strange to read something like that after so many int'l competitions! If you look closely to the levels, you can easily see they match the performance, whatever program is delivered. At Europeans, Gaby made a mistake in the SD twizzles and the level was downgraded from 4 to 3, as simple as that. And I could take other examples. Second, I think we have completely different definition of an ice dancer. To me, no way to say Scott is a better ice dancer than Guillaume. I actually think there's a significant gap between them. Guillaume is a true dancer, meaning that he's deeply involved in the dancing parts. His job is not to bring the focus on his partner. V/M are in an opposite approach as they deliver some kind of acrobatic show and they are very good to do that but there's no room left for romantic stuff in this kind of show. As I already said, V/M try to put sense on things while P/C let sense emerge from things. I personally prefer the second approach which is far more subtil and hard to translate on the ice but when it works then it's just sensational. Having attended several competitions live in the past years, I can really feel the power of P/C approach on the audience inside the rink. And when you say "somehow the judges forgive that Gabby while not horrible", I just think you should not speak in the names of the judges as this type of comment is completely disconnected from the truth. Gaby's contribution to the drama and the lyrical expression is definitely a key of P/C success.

 

[danceme]

Congratulations to Z/G for a FD well skated ...really excellent skating skill and great quality edges ,only matched by P/C and no other team at this champships and a rhumba pattern dance just excellent

 

[all that]

Well, these are very weird arguments. Basically, you're saying that Moonlight Sonata is a better program compared to Moulin Rouge but for the rest, V/M is better than P/C. It's really strange to read something like that after so many int'l competitions! If you look closely to the levels, you can easily see they match the performance, whatever program is delivered. At Europeans, Gaby made a mistake in the SD twizzles and the level was downgraded from 4 to 3, as simple as that. And I could take other examples. Second, I think we have completely different definition of an ice dancer. To me, no way to say Scott is a better ice dancer than Guillaume. I actually think there's a significant gap between them. Guillaume is a true dancer, meaning that he's deeply involved in the dancing parts. His job is not to bring the focus on his partner. V/M are in an opposite approach as they deliver some kind of acrobatic show and they are very good to do that but there's no room left for romantic stuff in this kind of show. As I already said, V/M try to put sense on things while P/C let sense emerge from things. I personally prefer the second approach which is far more subtil and hard to translate on the ice but when it works then it's just sensational. Having attended several competitions live in the past years, I can really feel the power of P/C approach on the audience inside the rink. And when you say "somehow the judges forgive that Gabby while not horrible", I just think you should not speak in the names of the judges as this type of comment is completely disconnected from the truth. Gaby's contribution to the drama and the lyrical expression is definitely a key of P/C success.

I've attended several competitions live in the past years and I can really feel the power of the V/M approach on the audience inside the rink too, so I don't think that's the reason P/C are better, and all the other stuff you've written is really related to only that point. To say that V/M can't bring romance because they're too busy doing acrobatics is something most people wouldn't believe, especially considering they have been known for romantic programs while doing more acrobatic lifts (Umbrellas of Cherbourg is a perfect example). The reason P/C are better is that they have better skating skills. I think their emotional resonance, while great, still has room to grow, and will surpass all other teams ever, because their potential is huge. BUt it isn't at peak level yet, and isn't their greatest asset at the moment. It's that they are better at skating than everyone else, and as this is ultimately a skating competition, that's the most important thing anyway.

 

[alain06fr]

I've attended several competitions live in the past years and I can really feel the power of the V/M approach on the audience inside the rink too, so I don't think that's the reason P/C are better, and all the other stuff you've written is really related to only that point. To say that V/M can't bring romance because they're too busy doing acrobatics is something most people wouldn't believe, especially considering they have been known for romantic programs while doing more acrobatic lifts (Umbrellas of Cherbourg is a perfect example). The reason P/C are better is that they have better skating skills. I think their emotional resonance, while great, still has room to grow, and will surpass all other teams ever, because their potential is huge. BUt it isn't at peak level yet, and isn't their greatest asset at the moment. It's that they are better at skating than everyone else, and as this is ultimately a skating competition, that's the most important thing anyway.

You did not get my point but I was probably not clear enough!
First, I fully agree with the fact P/C have the best skating skills keeping in mind they have not yet reached their full potential. And we can expect even more sensational programs in the coming years until Beijing 2022.
And to be even more precise, letting sense emerge from things - which is P/C ice dance approach - requires fantastic skating skills. The challenge is not to create some romance by portraying some characters. The challenge is to rely on their great skating skills to fully blend all technical elements into choreographic and artistic movements carrying emotions, class, softness in a continuous flow from beginning to end. Last season, they wanted to push the limits of this approach by skating on a dissonant music to demonstrate how their great skating skills are key elements to pass on emotions to the public, regardless of the music. We saw how complex and challenging it was but they managed to create the magic first time in Ostrava and then in Helsinki. Their free dance at Worlds in Finland was a sublime moment.

Now, regarding V/M, I agree they create some kind of romance as well but - and this is just my personal feeling - these acrobatic lifts combined with a program which looks like a Holiday on Ice show does not work well for me. Umbrellas of Cherbourg were a great romantic program but Moulin Rouge doesn't bring the same level of romance simply because the acrobatic/physical stuff takes precedence over the artistic part.

 

[cell]

You guys are so pessimistic towards S/B and B/S

I found B/S to be a bit old fashionned and not using their (very good) glide on the ice at their advantage. Sometimes there are some very nice edge work, and boom a choreographic moment make them stop and look sloppy. But they have a maturity on the ice that you can appreciate.
.

I find B/S high scores a little confusing. To me, their basic skating isn't really that good. I don't think their skating skills in FD were better than Guignard/Fabbri for example, who had great edges, speed and huge ice coverage.

 

[Anyasnake]

I find B/S high scores a little confusing. To me, their basic skating isn't really that good. I don't think their skating skills in FD were better than Guignard/Fabbri for example, who had great edges, speed and huge ice coverage.

I think a lot of people don't understand why G/F aren"t scored higher these days anyway. In GP France, I thought both G/F and S/B were both much better in the FD than WeaPo and C/B, yet they scored lower. Still a "wait your turn" situation.

 

[cell]

I think a lot of people don't understand why G/F aren"t scored higher these days anyway. In GP France, I thought both G/F and S/B were both much better in the FD than WeaPo and C/B, yet they scored lower. Still a "wait your turn" situation.

Yes, on one hand others are underscored, on the other hand, I don't see what's special or even very good about B/S basic skating. Even compared to the other Russians S/B? I think Europeans had a lot of couples with better basics than B/S or even S/B who deserved higher PCS.

B/S seem a bit sloppy, her posture is mediocre, and their dance spins feature slow and feature unattractive positions. The only technical elements I like or love about their FD are the lifts, particularly their upside down rotational lift

 

[Anyasnake]

Yes, on one hand others are underscored, on the other hand, I don't see what's special or even very good about B/S basic skating. Even compared to the other Russians S/B? I think Europeans had a lot of couples with better basics than B/S or even S/B who deserved higher PCS.

B/S seem a bit sloppy, her posture is mediocre, and their dance spins feature slow and feature unattractive positions. The only technical elements I like or love about their FD are the lifts, particularly their upside down rotational lift

Actually I found B/S to have sometimes nice basic skating, but there is a big no to her posture and also they don't use these skills : they scratch the ice a lot and seems sloppy most of the time.
S/B need to be less stiff when it comes to step sequences because it got them level 2 and that is not good at all, plus steps are a way to have a high score in SS. But they have great lifts, twizzles, and they also stopped doing weird positions just for the sake of doing it (because it's difficult - but ugly).

G/F has the best steps of them all barring P/C in my opinion - and frankly much better than C/L. Big, nice edges, no tension, seamless. I would have put them above their teamates to be honest.

 

[cell]

Actually I found B/S to have sometimes nice basic skating, but there is a big no to her posture and also they don't use these skills : they scratch the ice a lot and seems sloppy most of the time.
S/B need to be less stiff when it comes to step sequences because it got them level 2 and that is not good at all, plus steps are a way to have a high score in SS. But they have great lifts, twizzles, and they also stopped doing weird positions just for the sake of doing it (because it's difficult - but ugly).

G/F has the best steps of them all barring P/C in my opinion - and frankly much better than C/L. Big, nice edges, no tension, seamless. I would have put them above their teamates to be honest.

If they have nice basics, they don't show them I guess. I don't know, I just wouldn't have had them 2nd or even 3rd in FD.