2018 Europeans Pairs FS

[David21]

They were right.

With the new box you can see in real time the GOE for each element and judges gave them positive GOEs for elements with very clear mistakes like the two-footed quad or the side-by-side spin completely out of sync and messy lifts.

I read here people saying that judges have created this fake hype for the russian sweep but honestly i think they really wanted to give J/C the podium but there were way too many mistakes.

Correct. M/C were just messy overall with too many mistakes and just barely missed a medal. Unfortunate for them but deserved.

 

[QuadThrow]

Is it true that Bruno has back injury that's why why WD from European? I hope he will recover well. Olympics is so near.

Bruno has got back problems since last february.

But they skipped Euros because they want to practice the 3ATh. Unofficially they did not want to be a vitctim of the Russian friendly judging in moscow and lose his Gold contender position for pyoengchang. I think it was a wise decision after I watched it.

 

[kevinVchicago]

I'm still flabbergasted than T/M will use that FS and those costumes at the Olympics!

 

[Skater Boy]

No they are tuning up for the Olympics and did not want to potentially lose to someone before the Olympics and hurt their reputation. they know it is possible that a Russian team could beat them.

 

[Skater Boy]

I would love S and K to skate clean at the olympics and give Sui and Han and the Germans a run for their money. Likely not but I do like their take on Carmen.

 

[Skater Boy]

Re-watching 'top' 5 once again and looking at protocols some thoughts...

- generally speaking, in my opinion winner was clear yesterday, but the scale of the win and the rest of the podium could raise some brows and concerns. All 'top' Pairs there had some bigger or smaller issues yesterday, but agree that Evgenia/Vladimir had the least of them - yet I do not think that this kind of GOEs (for throws especially) and PCS (especially for interpretation and composition of the program) were needed to declare the victory; it really sends confusing message, looking for example how the program was performed/executed/looked overall during GP series and GPF and how it was therefore scored. We can cry as much as we like over this FS music choice/composition, costumes, attitude, overall outlook of it - the thing is for me that the idea itself, making them more fun, lighter, energetic is a great one, the problem lays in the packaging of it all; all the effort put into idea seems to be wasted by an afterthought-like execution of it. Speaking of execution of the actual program by Evgenia/Vladimir, I felt once again watching them yesterday that while they can keep up with elements, execute them clean-ish (more or less), there's little consideration over music tempo, keeping up with its energy by skate and performance, especially seeing last rock'n'roll dynamic part with them pretty much pushing through to the finish, running out of steam. The program sure lack elegance, finesse and sophistication comparing to others, but it is not the point of such program to make it like that - the point is to make it more cohesive and polished as a whole, in relation to their way of movement/expression, music/theme chosen. I think that there's no possibility to re-vamp it completely (as could have been done after GPF), because they've got the message to just skate it clean(ish) for getting the marks they need. The sad thing about all this situation for me is the fact that the program has not even grown throughout the season, like it has potential to do, which was confirmed yesterday; right now it's all about clean execution, with focus on the scores it will generate, it is effective, just not sure if should be all about that.

- the 2nd, 3rd, 4th place situation could go either way I think, but cannot help, but see the lack of balance in GOE/PCS reward and punishment between all 3 teams, looking at their performances and scores. I feel, I really feel for Vanessa/Morgan, mostly because of the fashion they've lost medal, comprising from their own rough performance and how other rough performances were scored. I do hope that this will be the best motivation and lesson they could possibly get and will let them go with new, bigger fire to Olympics. PB score for Zabiiako/Enbert is probably the most confusing thing of them all, looking at how they actually skated AND performed, but looking at Ksenia/Fedor still surpassing them in FS with skate they had is making things quite ridiculous. I really do get the love for 'Carmen' FS - because I'm a fan of this match myself - but can we pour the love more reasonably, in relation to the actual performance/execution of a program? Stolbova/Klimov for me had way more issues than Zabiiako/Enbert and those issues seemed more impactful not only for tech execution, but also for the continuity of performance/expression. Whatever angle and comparison we choose, there is always something confusing with scores and placements, it really could go either way...

I love the exoticness of the French but I do not want them skating their best at the olympics. T and M with their consistency; S and K with their amazing long if skated well, Sui and Han and the Germans as perfection and Duhamel and Radford the underdog, fighters with two world titles - I'd like them to podium before the French.

 

[charlotte14]

I love the exoticness of the French but I do not want them skating their best at the olympics. T and M with their consistency; S and K with their amazing long if skated well, Sui and Han and the Germans as perfection and Duhamel and Radford the underdog, fighters with two world titles - I'd like them to podium before the French.

I think Sui/Han will win Olympic, S/M second and T/M third.

 

[Bcash]

Vanessa said afterwards that they knew there was no room for error for them going into the free.
To me she's saying how fully aware they are of the odds against them when they compete in Russian against strong Russian teams.

 

[Ares]

Russian podium sweep looks farcical. It was ridiculous how eager they were to add up and invent extra points for them. Or maybe this is that 4th place of James / Cipres by 0.01 or 0.02 point that hurts. K/S were the most overscored of them all, lifts, jumps, PCS... T/M also would not receive that score anywhere outside Russia but they are the undisputed winners. I'd have K/S in 4th.

I don't see an actual corruption going on though.

 

[Art&Sport]

I love the exoticness of the French but I do not want them skating their best at the olympics. T and M with their consistency; S and K with their amazing long if skated well, Sui and Han and the Germans as perfection and Duhamel and Radford the underdog, fighters with two world titles - I'd like them to podium before the French.

You may think you are offering a compliment to J/C, but that's not a compliment. Don't you see that it's attitudes like yours that are the problem, and likely unconsciously held by many people. Why are Vanessa and Morgan termed "exotic"? That's always the go-to remark. That or else in tennis, the Williams sisters were always termed "athletic" and other coded terms, but not considered 'smart' enough to build a point rally and out-savvy opponents. Not until they just kept winning and shut up a lot of people (especially Serena after Venus was diagnosed with her illness which made it more difficult for her to play until her recent amazing comeback). The difference with tennis is that when you win, you win and there's nothing dismissive umpires, blind line-callers and snarky fans can do about it. Vanessa should be in a sport where if you win the last point, score the final goal or cross the finish line first, you win and there's no subjectivity, politics and coded nitpicking that can keep you from prevailing.

What I admire about Vanessa a great deal is the way she always has that beautiful smile and she exudes positive energy and gratitude. The Russian crowd was really disrespectful toward J/C too! Obviously the crowd didn't think J/C was "exotic" enough to be on the podium over lame and boring Z/E. While Z/E have improved, they are only being thrown such overly high points because of being a traditional aesthetic Russian pair with long lines (even tho' Enbert is German). I believe S/K is more-so the class of the field, but they have been very inconsistent since coming back from injuries. Quite clearly, Vanessa and Morgan are the only team that has to go perfectly clean, if they hope to even barely make the podium. If J/C make even minor miscues, they will be dropped.

Other teams made errors too. T/M barely squeaked by with their free program and were given huge gifts. The fact that Tarasova clearly touched down her free foot on both throws was ignored by the judges. After bombing their sp, and still getting generous marks to keep them in contention, T/M were handed a mountain of points for their lousy fp to ensure they would come out on top, and with the obvious hope that J/C might falter so the judges could take them down notches. And it worked out for the Russians so perfectly in judges jumping on J/C so heavily for every slight miscue that in the end judges managed to place Z/E ahead of J/C too. Why was that? Z/E also made jumping errors in their program, plus they are boring and didn't skate well enough to be pushed over a team that has done as much as J/C has over the past couple of seasons. Absolutely no respect was shown to J/C, in the way other teams who have achieved top recognition are usually respected for a less than stellar performance with only minor mistakes.

It's amazing how fans, judges and commentators always examine J/C with a microscope and nitpick them to death. Nothing was offered regarding praise for the way J/C cam e back to even compete at Euros in the first place after V's recent injury.

 

[Art&Sport]

Vanessa said afterwards that they knew there was no room for error for them going into the free.
To me she's saying how fully aware they are of the odds against them when they compete in Russian against strong Russian teams.

Vanessa knows she has no margin for error no matter where she competes in this sport. She's not stupid.

 

[Crossover]

Russian podium sweep looks farcical. It was ridiculous how eager they were to add up and invent extra points for them. Or maybe this is that 4th place of James / Cipres by 0.01 or 0.02 point that hurts. K/S were the most overscored of them all, lifts, jumps, PCS... T/M also would not receive that score anywhere outside Russia but they are the undisputed winners. I'd have K/S in 4th.

I don't see an actual corruption going on though.

I enjoyed K/S' smooth but fast and powerful gliding (why the Russian girls in ladies can't glide like that?) as well as their charisma (mostly from Stolbova), but their mistakes were too visible not only in the FS, but also the SP.

 

[Ares]

I enjoyed K/S's smooth but fast and powerful gliding (why the Russian girls in ladies can't glide like that?) as well as their charisma (mostly from Stolbova), their mistakes were too visible not only in the FS, but also the SP.

Yeah I agree with you. Normally I love K/S and their speed was there too and I actually love Carmen Free Skate but for me too many errors across both programs. Ksenia was really sad.

As for Zabiiako / Enbert they had very good competition and I think they are better than people give them credit for despite their somewhat boring skating for some. I think she in particular is a gem, someone else pointed out praising her posture, movement of arms ... I concur. Their choreography is also big step up from previous year. SP is very coherent & appealing to witness - at least to me.

 

[Art&Sport]

Z/E have improved but not enough to be classed as high as they are being classed. It's always as soon as a Russian pair with strong technique and nice lines comes up, they automatically get extra points. The politics too is that they are Mozer's up-and-coming team, so they have a lot of backing and they automatically gain attention. Too bad they are not an exciting pair in the least. They don't have a dynamic connection with each other or the audience. Z/E have gained more confidence, but they still have much to work on. There's nothing that really makes them stand out aside from nice liines, well matched Russian traditional skating and being one of Mozer's teams (and therefore fully backed). Russian fed is surely interested in setting up Z/E for the Olympics since S/K may be retiring or not competing the full upcoming quad. And they succeeded by getting Z/E on the podium.

This is not about any type of conspiracy. But judges do talk with each other, and there is subtle or overt lobbying behind the scenes. For the sp, everyone expected the judges to be able to slot T/M and S/K in front of J/C. But when T/M and S/K both faltered, and J/C skated well in the sp without overt mistakes, there was no choice but to reward J/C. Their sp has great transitions into difficult moves, and it's choreographed so well with music that works for them.

Of course T/M have exceptional skills, but their programs simply do not match their talent level. Why should they continue to be rewarded so heavily for c**p programs? Skating in Russia, it's not a surprise to see them overly gifted. The point was to help raise them up just enough to pull up to winning position. And the judges made sure to catch J/C on everything they possibly could to bring them down as much as possible. Unfortunately J/C did not have a strong skate, so the judges' task was made easier, and the judges overdid the marking down to the point where it benefited Z/E. I think it was unfair to knock J/C completely off the podium in favor of Z/E (who are obviously being set-up for a strong showing at the Olympics), and for the next quad.