2018 JGP Kaunas Ladies Free Skate

[BillNeal]

Why did she deserve silver? on PCS. Because her skating skills and transitions are phenomenal, her musicality is innate and refined, and her composition and flow were superb. I guess all of that amounts to just 55 PCS, though, well below what Kanysheva had at Linz for a similar program with similar skills.

Lol. Weren't you the one that said that a skater(s) shouldn't overtake another because of PCS? I guess your rule only applies to some selected skaters.

There's no controversy here just like there was no controversy when P/R won over A/K in Bratislava.

 

[Colonel Green]

I’m not sure whether 2+2 is a good enough placement this year even on a tiebreaker but she’ll need at least that for the JGPF

Assume that six of the seven gold medals are distributed among three skaters (Trusova, Kostornaia, I guess Shcherbakova), then you'd have another skater with one gold medal and one other medal, and two spaces open for silver medalists.

 

[cohen-esque]

Assume that six of the seven gold medals are distributed among three skaters (Trusova, Kostornaia, I guess Shcherbakova), then you'd have another skater with one gold medal and one other medal, and two spaces open for silver medalists.

Actually with you laying it out like that, I guess it might be enough for 2+3 to make it, if the placements come out right between different skaters.

And of course one of those three might not win their next event, like Alina in her junior season, and then it all goes to chaos.

 

[frida80]

If I’m honest, in the middle portion of Rachmaninoff, I immediately thought this.

https://youtu.be/OHfgjszz_Tk

And it’s hard to objectively score a junior skater when they’re skating to a well know piece as that. I immediately zeroed in on Kseniia’s arms, head positions, and extensions. Which made everything feel a little basic and disconnected to the music.

I’ve looked at her program a few more times, it’s ok. But she was disconnected at the end of the program. Her face started to focus more on the final elements and not the music. She has nice arm movements, but doesn’t finish them. Her jumps didn’t have great flow at the end. Sasha went all out throughout her program. I can see why the judges didn’t go wild for this program.

 

[frida80]

I’m not sure whether 2+2 is a good enough placement this year even on a tiebreaker but she’ll need at least that for the JGPF; a bronze won’t cut it. Her FS score here shows she could be easily competitive with all but maybe Alena if she went clean, but she rarely does, so good luck to her.

It was last year. Rika made it in with a 2+3.

 

[cohen-esque]

It was last year. Rika made it in with a 2+3.

Ah, thanks. Well, lol at my memory. I really thought she squeaked by with a 2+2.

I guess this means the next few events will be much more exciting than I was expecting, with the field being so much more open.

 

[rikaquegira]

I just want to tell all the people complaining about Yelim’s silver that she should’ve won that medal even without a overscored PCS. Her jumps were some of the best in this event. Under the new GOE rules, she rules. [emoji23] (I just wanted the pun) She has the height, the distance, the good position, the effortlessness.

Kseniia is a delight! Don’t get me wrong, I loved her skating. I liked the SP better. And I don’t get why she got lower SS than Yelim both in the SP and the Free. Is there something I’m not seeing?? I mean, I think Yelim skated a bit faster but that’s not all there is to SS.

In terms of performance, Kseniia’s FS required more depth in expression than what she showed here imo. Yelim had a more comfort zone music, as I said, smart choice for her.
Surprisingly, I felt she was connected to the music.
Kseniia seemed a little too focused on her difficult steps and turns and wasn’t emoting what the music required from her. So to me, it felt a bit flat the program. Also, she was not skating on the music. Specially during the stepsq, you can really see it. I think she was a bit behind. The first part the program was good though.

I think in the end I feel like Kseniia got more than what she could handle(the lvl of complexity of the choreo and the backloaded combos) while Yelim’s program was like “here, this is what I can do really well”. It was less risky and it was executed to the best of her ability.
Also, it seems everyone in the arena liked her performance. They were cheering her on in the end more than at the beginning. I think no one was expecting her to be that good. [emoji23]

Another thing about Kseniia: her 3Lz3Lo was UR and it wasn’t called. I think the loop was even <<. Her combo 3Lz3T2T was also under in the 3T. Even Ted mentioned it. It was also not called.
And she finished way after the music. I saw people here talking about her musicality. I guess the Free wasn’t the best example of that. And in the SP she was also not hitting all the notes. Again, a complex program for her, perhaps more complex than she could handle at this point.

With all that said, I loved both programs from Kseniia. I didn’t like Yelim’s SP. That was somehow more bland then Meditation imo. And she finished a bit after the music in the SP. It was not her best performance. The jumps were also tight. That 3F looked UR to me. It was also not called.
I think the tech panel in this event was not great. And the judges were a bit crazy with suspicious GOEs and PCS for MANY skaters, not just my faves or your faves.

You know, I don’t mind people complaining about unfair scores(I’m actually interested in a healthy discussion) but if you’re going to talk about overscoring or uncalled errors you cannot be selective, otherwise you’ll be just as bad as the judges.

 

[Elucidus]

Charitably I'm assuming that those two judges thought that even landing the jump deserved positive GOE, but yeah, she shouldn't be getting positive GOE on an underrotated jump.

But it wasn't underrotated.
1) beginning of a jump (to determine direction) https://i103.fastpic.ru/big/2018/0908/23/810131f8afd87227c979139bdbe1e723.jpg
2) prerotation and toe pick phase http://fastpic.ru/view/103/2018/0908/e636254804329de31da09993698115a2.jpg.html
3) landing http://fastpic.ru/view/103/2018/0908/32e65f5a9b12ae1fb222dbc82fcd37d5.jpg.html

I would say 30-60 degree at worst. Clearly a technical controller mistake. It's a shame Sasha was robbed of her historical achievement just because of it.

P.S.: her fallen 4T was clearly UR though - and it wasn't called. It's really strange and suspicious judging.

 

[leoleo]

if you’re going to talk about overscoring or uncalled errors you cannot be selective


:thumbsup: to this!

 

[Elucidus]

I don't get everyone's hype about Yelim, tbh. She just skated measuredly and carefully from one rink corner to another preparing for jumps and mostly on two foot. Her so called "artistry and transitions" were just swinging her arms between jumps masking long jump preparations with zero connection to music. True transitions for me is footwork mostly after all - and she had weak footwork. Well, on the flip-side such music almost don't have any accents anyway - so it can be skated even with warm-up routine and be sold as something impressive. In the end she seemed to me as extremely boring, in Sotskova-style. Sorry if I offended someone - it's hard not to react when majority think otherwise.
Btw, I wasn't impressed by Sinitsina too. Mostly because I don't like Panova's programs, I think. But at least her program was much more complex, faster and physically demanding, and much harder to interpret than Yelim's program. Nevertheless placements were fair enough for me - fall is a fall - there is no way around it.

 

[rikaquegira]

I don’t think Yelim is the epitome of artistry. I said it myself, her programs are bland. And I agree her transitions are lacking, a lot of two foot skating indeed.
I’m not hyping her as this absolutely outstanding talent. It’s just that I saw some people here talking about her winning silver today as if it was the most outraging moment from this JGP. It is not. It was well deserved. She won on the jumps. Her PCS is a bit much imo but her jumps were great in the Free. Kseniia had some trouble today so... Yelim got the 2nd place.

This is a bit of a Satoko situation. I’m always impressed by her uncalled URs. But on the other side her PCS is always lower than what she deserves. So it’s like in the end it evens out.

I think it was the same here. Yelim might have deserved lower PCS but Kseniia might have deserved lower TES.

What can we do? Nothing makes sense in this sport, deep down inside we all know it. [emoji23]

 

[zyxwl2015]

Among Russian ladies, assuming Trusova, Kostornaya and Shcherbakova all get two gold medals (which looks likely), then it leaves 5 spots to other girls. Tarakanova and Vasilieva are getting two of them, then I guess the three girls (these two together with Kanysheva, Tarusina and Sinitsyna) who has higher score will get 2nd assignment. Since Sinitsyna only got bronze chance for her is slim...:sad4: And then if the three girls again get silver (which is also likely), they will be going to jgpf. Looks like an all-Russian final to me.

 

[frida80]

I just want to tell all the people complaining about Yelim’s silver that she should’ve won that medal even without a overscored PCS. Her jumps were some of the best in this event. Under the new GOE rules, she rules. [emoji23] (I just wanted the pun) She has the height, the distance, the good position, the effortlessness.

Kseniia is a delight! Don’t get me wrong, I loved her skating. I liked the SP better. And I don’t get why she got lower SS than Yelim both in the SP and the Free. Is there something I’m not seeing?? I mean, I think Yelim skated a bit faster but that’s not all there is to SS.

In terms of performance, Kseniia’s FS required more depth in expression than what she showed here imo. Yelim had a more comfort zone music, as I said, smart choice for her.
Surprisingly, I felt she was connected to the music.
Kseniia seemed a little too focused on her difficult steps and turns and wasn’t emoting what the music required from her. So to me, it felt a bit flat the program. Also, she was not skating on the music. Specially during the stepsq, you can really see it. I think she was a bit behind. The first part the program was good though.

I think in the end I feel like Kseniia got more than what she could handle(the lvl of complexity of the choreo and the backloaded combos) while Yelim’s program was like “here, this is what I can do really well”. It was less risky and it was executed to the best of her ability.
Also, it seems everyone in the arena liked her performance. They were cheering her on in the end more than at the beginning. I think no one was expecting her to be that good. [emoji23]

Another thing about Kseniia: her 3Lz3Lo was UR and it wasn’t called. I think the loop was even <<. Her combo 3Lz3T2T was also under in the 3T. Even Ted mentioned it. It was also not called.
And she finished way after the music. I saw people here talking about her musicality. I guess the Free wasn’t the best example of that. And in the SP she was also not hitting all the notes. Again, a complex program for her, perhaps more complex than she could handle at this point.

With all that said, I loved both programs from Kseniia. I didn’t like Yelim’s SP. That was somehow more bland then Meditation imo. And she finished a bit after the music in the SP. It was not her best performance. The jumps were also tight. That 3F looked UR to me. It was also not called.
I think the tech panel in this event was not great. And the judges were a bit crazy with suspicious GOEs and PCS for MANY skaters, not just my faves or your faves.

You know, I don’t mind people complaining about unfair scores(I’m actually interested in a healthy discussion) but if you’re going to talk about overscoring or uncalled errors you cannot be selective, otherwise you’ll be just as bad as the judges.

Skating skills is Balance, flow, cleanness and sureness of deep edges, speed, multi-directional skating, and mastery of one foot skating.

I think where Yelim excelled was the flow and balance. Between all of her elements it was just effortless. No hesitation going into any of them.

She didn’t have tons of transitions, but she did have plenty, IMO. Three turns and a bracket into her 3Lz+3T. Inu Bauer into her 3F. Difficult entries into her 2A and 3Lo. You don’t have to have Yuzuru level of transitions before every jump, IMO.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Does judge number 7 just hate transitions? Those PCS scores are so wild I have to wonder if everything is alright :scratch3:

 

[rikaquegira]

There were some really confusing PCS and TES here indeed...
Exactly as I always expect. [emoji23]

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

When Sasha went straight to the judges table and felt about for some imaginary glass and then punched thru it....well that was all sorts of awesome!!

I finally got to watch Sasha and I’m very happy for her and am totally in love with the costume and program. I’m too tired to watch any other skater’s programs or get overly in depth but I’ll try tomorrow. Sounds like I missed some good performances. .

 

[frida80]

When Sasha went straight to the judges table and felt about for some imaginary glass and then punched thru it....well that was all sorts of awesome!!

I finally got to watch Sasha and I’m very happy for her and am totally in love with the costume and program. I’m too tired to watch any other skater’s programs or get overly in depth but I’ll try tomorrow. Sounds like I missed some good performances. .

Nothing like watching it live. Shes so exciting!

 

[frida80]

Does judge number 7 just hate transitions? Those PCS scores are so wild I have to wonder if everything is alright :scratch3:

Nah, he doesn’t like Sasha not doing transitions into her Quads. We see this in men’s as well. I think it’s unfair in Sasha’s case, since she just learned them a year ago and she’s the only lady in the world competing with them. The rest of her jumps have great transitions. It’s like she’s being punished for doing something insanely hard and actually accomplishing it.

 

[[email protected]]

A very strong last group this time (may be with the exception of Italian skater).

I think that Moa can be very successful - she can express the music and her soft knees are not as atrocious as they sometimes are with the Japanese squad. She just needs to focus on jump execution.

Anastasia is a solid skater without any big issues. Looks like she is the future of Ukranian ladies figure skating. But so far I don't get it when people say she deserved the podium.

Ksenya's skating was not only beautiful but very mature for her age. I agree that she was lowballed in pcs vs. Yelim. But I would not argue about her silver: she lost not less than 5 points in combo plus time violation. That was her silver.

Yelim was a joy to watch. Last year she was just a "jumping robot". Her jumps got even better but she shows some artistry now. It is similar to Boyang's path. She was imo overscored: her spins were sometimes awkward and I do not agree with GOE she received for them. But overall she deserved the silver.

Sasha was phenomenal. After she made history yet another time the least important topic for the discussion is her dress. Who cares? She could perform in a practice outfit - it would still not reduce from her feat here. I wish she wins Russian nationals with 2 quads in the short and 3 in the free.

Another skater that I liked was Alina from Israel. Alina Zagitova may be the inspiration for her: she did the same arm movements while skating to the start position. I enjoyed her performance a lot. I don't know her history. She spoke Russian in K&C. Not being happy about her score she said: мало (too little). Well, I am sure if she keeps working bigger scores will come.

 

[zounger]

Does judge number 7 just hate transitions? Those PCS scores are so wild I have to wonder if everything is alright :scratch3:

I guess expecting something like this and got disappointed.