2018 Olympic Season: Ice Dance

[Purv]

French have kind of musicality which canadian doesnt have. French interpret the music, while Canadians portreys characters, they re playing, they often overacts. especially Tessa. Both teamsc cause different emotions.Thats why people seem to think that French do the same thing every year.What I am not able to see. Every team has style, movements which they wont escape from, even if they change the music.Shibs does the same every year, even skaters like Fernandez,Medviedeva or patrick Chan, YES Chan does the same stuff every year.In the same style. But judges doesn seem to care right, 4 everchan? Patrich Chan also repeats over and over again the same program with less and less originality, year after year, and he is LONGER in the bussines then French. And I dont mind it. I love it actually And it doesnt stop you from feeling different kind emiotions when he skates?
Feeling different kind of emotions during a ONE, PARTICULAR program has NOTHING to do with the style of skater/ team does regularly. This is only your hmm requirement? .hm i dont know how to put it... If you need every year different style of the program to feel different kind of emotions during it so this is not their problem
SD french has not typical latin flavour, but neither Canadians- dark clothes, rock music with latin beat, strange moves- you wann tell me typical latin right?

 

[Anyasnake]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RD-vl_nYbtg

Current standings. A very very nice video !

 

[hortensja]

French have kind of musicality which canadian doesnt have.

Sorry, but I really disagree with that. P/C has fluidity of movements that goes very well with melodious, lyrical, long music lines. That's one of the reasons they stick to the style they're performing in this quad. But they're not that good in illustrating each little nuance in the music. And I think it's not that they doesn't hear or feel the music, but just their moves are not sharp or precise. Meanwhile V/M are one of the most musical persons in the history of skating. Already the valse in the 2007 was exceptional in accentuating each little musical moment. That's why Mahler was exceptional- it's a pretty modern piece with difficult melody and rythm and they were capable to illustrate that. Mahler is not great because of the romantic feeling but because they managed to match with their bodies this complex piece.

I understand that people love the airy fluidity of P/C but I cannot accept statement that they are more musical that V/M.

 

[Purv]

Sorry, but I really disagree with that. P/C has fluidity of movements that goes very well with melodious, lyrical, long music lines. That's one of the reasons they stick to the style they're performing in this quad. But they're not that good in illustrating each little nuance in the music. And I think it's not that they doesn't hear or feel the music, but just their moves are not sharp or precise. Meanwhile V/M are one of the most musical persons in the history of skating. Already the valse in the 2007 was exceptional in accentuating each little musical moment. That's why Mahler was exceptional- it's a pretty modern piece with difficult melody and rythm and they were capable to illustrate that. Mahler is not great because of the romantic feeling but because they managed to match with their bodies this complex piece.

I understand that people love the airy fluidity of P/C but I cannot accept statement that they are more musical that V/M.

Why you you re putting in my mouth what i didnt say?
i didnt say that canadians have no musicality or less, only that p/c have their own, very original who is very different than the canadians. Canadians is based on acting, making performances..Rather classic type of skating. French interpret the music with their bodies.

But they're not that good in illustrating each little nuance in the music.

Acutally they are, very good in it, this is their advantage

And I think it's not that they doesn't hear or feel the music, but just their moves are not sharp or precise.

Being sharp performing Moonligh sonata would be a proof that they have musicality but fludity, having flow or those movement to the music is not a proof?
Why being sharp has to make a skater better and the program overall? It depends on the music. Canadians werent sharp last year in FD and so what? French were sharp in their paso doble or march .Being sharp doesnt mean you re better, I bet, if they do one day , their tango would be awesome

 

[peepsquick]

Sorry, but I really disagree with that. P/C has fluidity of movements that goes very well with melodious, lyrical, long music lines. That's one of the reasons they stick to the style they're performing in this quad. But they're not that good in illustrating each little nuance in the music. And I think it's not that they doesn't hear or feel the music, but just their moves are not sharp or precise. Meanwhile V/M are one of the most musical persons in the history of skating. Already the valse in the 2007 was exceptional in accentuating each little musical moment. That's why Mahler was exceptional- it's a pretty modern piece with difficult melody and rythm and they were capable to illustrate that. Mahler is not great because of the romantic feeling but because they managed to match with their bodies this complex piece.

I understand that people love the airy fluidity of P/C but I cannot accept statement that they are more musical that V/M.

I'm sorry but I don't see it. It is a lovely piece but to me, apart from moments where the music calls for more intensity, their moves are not especially attuned to the music. It is also not an easy piece to dance on, to be honest. They do better on stronger rhythms.

 

[hortensja]

Canadians is based on acting, making performances..Rather classic type of skating. French interpret the music with their bodies.

I see it quite on the contrary- P/C do a lot of selling the mood but their bodies don't always follow the music. For me V/M are capable to ideally illustrate the music line and rythm. I'm not at all talking about acting.

 

[MelDee]

their bodies don't always follow the music

They actually do. Always.

 

[icetigger]

I'm sorry but I don't see it. It is a lovely piece but to me, apart from moments where the music calls for more intensity, their moves are not especially attuned to the music. It is also not an easy piece to dance on, to be honest. They do better on stronger rhythms.

I agree. The music is more of a wash: a generalised backdrop to the movements, except at specific highlights. The two steps sequences in particular are just pasted onto the music. V/M are actually a lot more musical in general that than specific performance; most specifically with strong rhythms. It was a magical performance though. It felt innocent and fresh. In terms of choreography being attuned to the music, there are much stronger examples in both V/M's and P/C back catalogue.

 

[hortensja]

Being sharp performing Moonligh sonata would be a proof that they have musicality but fludity, having flow or those movement to the music is not a proof?
Why being sharp has to make a skater better and the program overall? It depends on the music. Canadians werent sharp last year in FD and so what? French were sharp in their paso doble or march .Being sharp doesnt mean you re better, I bet, if they do one day , their tango would be awesome

Not sharp in style but sharp in precision. And also when in the middle part of MS music is more accentuated and energetic they can't follow it and it seems mismatched. And yes, you have to adapt your movement to the music. That's why when the music change P/C for just don't follow.

And for me P/C's passo and march were not the best one. Waltz was ok because it's their type of movement.

We won't agree because we see things differently.

 

[skylark]

Yes, 3, 4,5 are somewhat fluid but I think these are the characters. I just think we could have a Gadbois sweep of the podium, but let me not get more ahead of myself.

Okay, it may be dumb but I'm going to ask. What do you mean by a Gadbois sweep of the podium?

I googled it and got very diverse dictionary meanings, including from urban dictionary.

 

[Anyasnake]

Okay, it may be dumb but I'm going to ask. What do you mean by a Gadbois sweep of the podium?

I googled it and got very diverse dictionary meanings, including from urban dictionary.

It means Gadbois (Montreal team = V/M, H/D, P/C) gets all the places in the podium.

 

[mylifeback]

It would be nice to have an Ice Dance thread where one could read & participate in comments about all the medal contenders instead of an endless clusterf*ck of VM and PC fans fighting and insulting each other. Some of us want to discuss/read about ice dance without all the BS but it's extremely difficult to do when most of the posts are just petty arguments about two teams. In my opinion, the fight for the bronze is far more interesting.

 

[skylark]

It means Gadbois (Montreal team = V/M, H/D, P/C) gets all the places in the podium.

thanks, Anyasnake. I still had to go to Gabriella's Wiki page to find out that Gadbois is the name of the Skating club.

I thought about replying via pm, but it's just possible I'm not the only one reading the thread who didn't know. I'm interested in ice dance and in reading the views, even though I don't know the shorthand. (I realize it doesn't seem like shorthand to everyone either!)

 

[peepsquick]

It would be nice to have an Ice Dance thread where one could read & participate in comments about all the medal contenders instead of an endless clusterf*ck of VM and PC fans fighting and insulting each other. Some of us want to discuss/read about ice dance without all the BS but it's extremely difficult to do when most of the posts are just petty arguments about two teams. In my opinion, the fight for the bronze is far more interesting.

I hear you! I still hope the real Olympic spirit will show up ...
Thinking of 3rd place, I really like H/D new pieces this year and hope they will be able to have a breakthrough. C/B are doing fine in my opinion, even if I am not sure about the soundtrack of "Imagine" + message. I am not crazy about anyone else's performances. I liked S/B very much last year: I thought their Astor Piazzola's FD was gorgeous and
innovative. This year, I can't stand their choice of music. W/P are a bit of a mystery to me: I liked their FDs the past three seasons but they seem to have lost momentum with the judges, even before the return of V/M. Why? I'm not sure. The Shibs for me are good skaters but way to stiff and restrained. Piper and Paul are a gem in their own way: love their ventures into new styles. I don't like their work so much this year. It is a bit flat.
Sorry about the hodgepodge of impressions but maybe we can jump start the debate about the elusive 3rd place!

 

[Diok]

Tessa and Scott are the most musical team for me. Every movement they make is to the music and expressed beautifully. Extremely detailed body movement. Anyone saying otherwise is laughable. U might like another teams program more like papadakis/cizeron but c'mon

When taking both teams into account Tessa and Scott should be leading by 3 pts after the short. In Papadakis and Cizeron's SD their movement in latin seems forced. Like a couple trying to dance latin for the 3rd time in their life with dance backround....Tessa and Scott's short is far superior. Up to this point the FD for me is a toss up. 2 very different styles.

 

[Mango]

I'm not sure which characters Tessa & Scott were portraying in the Latch FD. I thought the whole point of that one was to prove they can skate the 'Gadbois style' of dance.

Bronze medal candidates are skating at NHK. Anna & Luca's GP debut this season and Madison & Zachary skating outside of North America. We'll see how the scoring goes before France where we get more candidates competing and fighting for a GPF spot.

 

[skylark]

I feel almsot silly talking about the elements and numbers when it comes to P/C. IMO V/M are great skatesr/ice dancers/atheletes and I enjoy watching them immensely also, but P/C are real artists, in every sense of the word, however cliche it may sound. There, my absolutely untechnical ice dance commentary.

I love this post, and I also loved the long conversation about artists and artistry that it set off. I don't see it as merely a fight between fans of two teams. Just as in everything else, there are different perceptions of what artistry is, in figure skating.

Expression of the overall intent of the music, and embodying the emotions, is what I feel Papadakis and Cizeron do so well. When I watch their programs, especially FDs (but I'm getting it from this year's SD now too), I'm on the ice with them. I'm inside their skating and inside the music. So I'm participating in an experience of art myself. By the time they develop their FD through to worlds, their artistry is so seamless that their performances become sublime. I had a glimpse and a precursory feeling of that at CoC.

When I watch Virtue and Moir, I feel I'm admiring their technique, how they delineate nuances and notes in the music, and their acting abilities. They seem to know exactly what impression they want to project, and they use their connection and history with each other to do so. It's a different sort of artistry. I feel like I'm an observer. Sort of like seeing a work of pointillism like Seurat's Sunday Afternoon. I've always been fascinated by the technique of it, but I don't enjoy seeing the painting nearly as much as I enjoy being in the presence of an Impressionist painting and experiencing it from within.

For me, the difference between P/C and V/M is the difference between experiencing a work of art, being inside it, losing track of time ... vs. analyzing, admiring, seeing, hearing, feeling, from outside. Both teams are almost a pinnacle of the style of art that they make. Also, I feel both teams have as a goal or ideal to project a romantic connection. And (it's ironic, I know) for me, P/C create the illusion better.

 

[ice coverage]

Several more cents from me:

I see beauty in P/C's skating, but it does not make me feel any emotion. I feel detached and distant from their performances, to the point that sometimes my mind even wanders into wondering, "How much longer before this program is over?" I never have felt compelled to watch their videos again and again. Just my opinion.

V/M's skating always makes me feel emotion, sometimes bringing me to tears. I feel very connected to their performances, and I want the program to never end. I have watched many of their videos over and over and over -- partly to enjoy the emotional experience as a whole again, and partly to take in all the details.​

As for other ice dancers, I'm all about Hubbell/Donohue at this point. Often mesmerizing.
Sad to say that the Shibs are not as interesting to me as they once were.
Shallow note: I loved Madi's SD dress in SLC. Sorry that it was gone by Skate Canada International.

Sorry also that the Chock/Bates another site AMA did not happen today.
Madi/Zach's AMA was terrific. Among other things, they willingly responded to some of the less than supportive questions, and calmly gave good answers to them. I appreciate especially that they kept coming back for several more days to continue replying to questions that they did not have time for during the original session.

Best to V/M, H/D, and Muramoto/Reed at NHK :yay:.

 

[peepsquick]

Several more cents from me:

I see beauty in P/C's skating, but it does not make me feel any emotion. I feel detached and distant from their performances, to the point that sometimes my mind even wanders into wondering, "How much longer before this program is over?" I never have felt compelled to watch their videos again and again. Just my opinion.

V/M's skating always makes me feel emotion, sometimes bringing me to tears. I feel very connected to their performances, and I want the program to never end. I have watched many of their videos over and over and over -- partly to enjoy the emotional experience as a whole again, and partly to take in all the details.​

As for other ice dancers, I'm all about Hubbell/Donohue at this point. Often mesmerizing.
Sad to say that the Shibs are not as interesting to me as they once were.
Shallow note: I loved Madi's SD dress in SLC. Sorry that it was gone by Skate Canada International.

Sorry also that the Chock/Bates another site AMA did not happen today.
Madi/Zach's AMA was terrific. Among other things, they willingly responded to some of the less supportive questions, and calmly gave good answers to them. I appreciate especially that they kept coming back for several more days to continue replying to questions that they did not have time for during the original session.

Best to V/M, H/D, and Muramoto/Reed at NHK :yay:.

Exactly the opposite of what I feel! :shocked: I appreciate V/M skills very much but they don't keep my attention. I usually don't go back to their performances. P/C 's performances mesmerize me and I always find their performances too short. Doesn't happen to me with V/M.
Anyway, it would be quite boring, if everyone was in agreement ... .

 

[Mrs. P]

Just speaking to the US teams; I'm glad to see distinct sets of programs from the top 3 (and actually there's not many similarities from the next-tier teams either). I especially like the FDs from the Chock/Bates, Shibs and Hubbell/Donohue this year. It will be a treat for those who will be in San Jose (including me, I hope. ) but man I would not want to judge that competition.

I enjoyed Papadakis/Cizeron's FD at COC quite a bit and was surprised at the outrage at the scores -- I suppose it was a bit high, but it was skated pretty well especially for a first GP. My favorite program from them still remains the Woodkid program, even if they didn't get great results from it. I'm kind of hoping they'll go back to that style in the future -- their Pink Floyd program from their last junior season was pretty cool too. I like edgy P/C, which is probably why I did like last season's FD more than their other "lyrical" FDs, there was an edge to it. I can't buy the Ed Sheeran Latin though -- Actually I probably be more into it if they just did an Ed Sheeran FD straight up instead of trying to cram it into a Latin style.

Virtue and Moir's skill is definitely unmatched and I like the Prince SD from last season. Neither of their programs this season have really captured me -- but I'm hoping that will change.