2018 Russian Junior Nationals - Pairs

[starla16]

Lol, Eteri now dominates both in junior ladies and in junior men in Russia

lets hope she doesn't intrude into ice dance with her daughter
that would be FS nepotism

 

[AlexRus]

11 pairs nice and strong (while not all of them are clean), only one weak.
Good Pair Event at JrNats this season.

 

[hanca]

It bothers me that the base value of the first two pairs is 30.10 and additional eight pairs have base values 29.10-29.70. That means ten pairs out of 12 have a base value within one point from each other. Which is a very tiny difference. The technical mark is therefore very heavily influenced by GOE which can be subjective, and PCS can be subjective too. I am not complaining about the placement of any particular pair. I am just noting that if a pair (whoever) is in favour, it is far too easy for the federation to influence the results. I hope in the FS the base values will vary much more, oterwise it would be impossible to objectively judge who is better. I am not fan of reputation judging. I prefer if technical skills can influence the outcome, but not if the technical difference is only based on GOE.

 

[puremagic]

It bothers me that the base value of the first two pairs is 30.10 and additional eight pairs have base values 29.10-29.70. That means ten pairs out of 12 have a base value within one point from each other. Which is a very tiny difference. The technical mark is therefore very heavily influenced by GOE which can be subjective, and PCS can be subjective too. I am not complaining about the placement of any particular pair. I am just noting that if a pair (whoever) is in favour, it is far too easy for the federation to influence the results. I hope in the FS the base values will vary much more, oterwise it would be impossible to objectively judge who is better. I am not fan of reputation judging. I prefer if technical skills can influence the outcome, but not if the technical difference is only based on GOE.

Interesting observation, hanca. Also, 80% of these pairs have a good triple twist. After watching all pairs I'd put Kvartalova into the first place. Their skating skills are not as good as Pavluchenko's, but their elements were the best. This is their first clean program, I guess.

 

[hanca]

Interesting observation, hanca. Also, 80% of these pairs have a good triple twist. After watching all pairs I'd put Kvartalova into the first place. Their skating skills are not as good as Pavluchenko's, but their elements were the best. This is their first clean program, I guess.

Well, for example, I didn’t find Akhanteva/Kolesov anything special. And yet everytime they skate at home, they get very decent results thanks to GOE and PCS, whereas they always score significantly lower at international competitions. On the other hand, Panfilova/Rylov always scores relatively high internationally and relatively low at home. Internationaly they managed to beat Russian pairs that they have no chance beating at home competitions. And that’s just an example. There are much more inconsistencies. So one wonders how it happens and finding out that they actually all have only very tiny difference in base value, that means that the scores are made higher or lower only through GOE and PCS. And there is no way to ensure that PCS and GOE are hundred percent objective. So within home judging, many other things may be taken into account, such as who their coach is, where are they from (Moscow, St Petersburg or Perm), how much potential the skaters have in the judge’s view....

 

[puremagic]

Well, for example, I didn’t find Akhanteva/Kolesov anything special. And yet everytime they skate at home, they get very decent results thanks to GOE and PCS, whereas they always score significantly lower at international competitions. On the other hand, Panfilova/Rylov always scores relatively high internationally and relatively low at home. Internationaly they managed to beat Russian pairs that they have no chance beating at home competitions. And that’s just an example. There are much more inconsistencies. So one wonders how it happens and finding out that they actually all have only very tiny difference in base value, that means that the scores are made higher or lower only through GOE and PCS. And there is no way to ensure that PCS and GOE are hundred percent objective. So within home judging, many other things may be taken into account, such as who their coach is, where are they from (Moscow, St Petersburg or Perm), how much potential the skaters have in the judge’s view....

But they're training in Velikov's group, aren't they? The same group with Polina Kostyukovich and Mishina, right? I mean, they could push Polina, because she is an obvious talent, or even judges were so shocked from foreign body in that pair... Panfilova/Rylov skated today nice, but something were missing, I still didn't get what exactly.

 

[hanca]

But they're training in Velikov's group, aren't they? The same group with Polina Kostyukovich and Mishina, right? I mean, they could push Polina, because she is an obvious talent, or even judges were so shocked from foreign body in that pair... Panfilova/Rylov skated today nice, but something were missing, I still didn't get what exactly.

My point is, if you have a number of pairs who all have the same skillset (doing the same elements) and all managing to skate clean, it can very easily slip into a competition with results that do not reflect what was on the ice. So then why bother having competition if the judges place them however they want to? It seems that junior pairs are catching on Russian junior ladies -to push through at home it won’t be enough to skate clean. One will need to have elements that set you apart from the competitors. While skating at international competitions is different because it is enough in juniors to skate clean. So that means two completely different approaches.

 

[puremagic]

My point is, if you have a number of pairs who all have the same skillset (doing the same elements) and all managing to skate clean, it can very easily slip into a competition with results that do not reflect what was on the ice. So then why bother having competition if the judges place them however they want to? It seems that junior pairs are catching on Russian junior ladies -to push through at home it won’t be enough to skate clean. One will need to have elements that set you apart from the competitors. While skating at international competitions is different because it is enough in juniors to skate clean. So that means two completely different approaches.

Don't even know. As you said, almost every pair has the same BV. Every pair has fair GOE as well. Akhanteva/Kolesov' throw was awesome, so I agree with +2. And what we have at the end - the PCS difference, but there are also all quite correct. Let's wait a free program, there we'll see a full picture. As for Akhanteva/Kolesov, we need to judge at least by two starts. Yeah, they failed their first JGP, but it's hard to say comparing only one international event with many local competitions.

I checked one more time their Riga's scores. They lost about ~2.5 points in PCS to Panfilova. And I guess it's because of the spoiled SP. If they were clean - it could be almost the same PCS with 0.5 or 1 +/- difference.

 

[*~RussianBleux~*]

Does the FS start now? Anyone have a stream?

 

[puremagic]

Does the FS start now? Anyone have a stream?

Here you go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eluc5RCR_EQ

 

[puremagic]

121.71 points for Polina!

 

[icetug]

I love Polina&Dimitrii's FS. It's the best FS in juniors for me. So happy they were clean and got nice score! Hope to see them in JGP again.

 

[puremagic]

See, hanca? Even here Ksenia lost to Panfilova in PCS over 1 point.

Last group... I'm so worry for Polina. The gap is pretty big after the short program.

 

[sequinsgalore]

9 Daria KVARTALOVA / Alexey SVYATCHENKO (RUS)

Music: Exogenesis by Muse

Dark blue starry costumes

3Tw
3S+1Lo+3S - he maybe double 2nd?
3FTh
3T
2Li
ChSq
3LoTh - fall
BiDs
FCCoSp - unison off
5ALi
PCoSp

New pair? Good singles element, need work on pair elements

 

[sequinsgalore]

10 Anastasia Mishina/ Alexandr Galiamov

Music: Conquest of Paradise (soundtrack) by Vangelis

Black and dark purple costumes

3Tw
3LoTh
3T+COMBO - she 3T(stepout)+2T, he did 3T+3T(fall)
3S
5RLi
CCoSp
3Li
ChSq
3STh
BiDS
PCoSp

Missed 3-3 combo, otherwise solid skate. Still needs gelling as a pair

 

[sequinsgalore]

11 Daria Pavliuchenko / Denis Khodykin

Music: Chicago (soundtrack)

Hot pink dress, black fringe skirt / silver vest, white shirt, black pants

3T+3T+SEQ
3Tw
3S
5ALi
3FTh
FiDs - bit wobbly entry
PCoSp
ChSq
3LoTh
3Li
FCCoSp

Really nice fun skate, they smile

 

[sequinsgalore]

Alexandra Boikova / Dmitry Kozlovskii

Music: The Nutcracker by Petr I. Tchaikovski

White dress / silver jacket, black pants

3Lo - she stepout (UR?)
3T+COMBO - she stepout, he did 3T+1Lo+3S
3Tw
3Li
FiDs
FCCoSp
ChSq
3LoTh
5ALi
3STh - turnout
PCoSp

Ouch, messy landings on jumps and throws from her. Far from their best

 

[Spirals for Miles]

Does this mean P/K and K/I both get to go to JWC along with M/G??
Great redemption for K/I and wow P/K totally swept the field!!

 

[zandor]

Poor Sasha Boikova...

 

[icetug]

Polina and Dmitrii on third?! It's as great news as Kaori's 1st :hap93:
Does it mean they will go to JWC?