2018 Skate America Mens FS

[cathlen]

I'm not a Kevin Reynolds fan, but personally I cannot understand how his PCS are so low while Brezina's (for example) are so high.

???

Well, Michal basics were always good. He just always messed up the programs, and you can't give high PCS if skater falls three times. But you can if the skate is great and without any falls.

 

[TheBallerina]

My random thoughts after watching the FS:

Sergei Voronov embodies many things that I love in FS, he's always a pleasure to watch with or without technical mistakes. I agree that his program is a little bit empty, but that step sequence is The real deal and makes up for it. I hope to see a better performance at his next assignement, he has great attitude and spirits. Can not help but love him :luv17:

Michal Brezina was able to deliever when others did not, he messed up with many of our predictions, I'm sure of it. It was a well-deserved 2nd place, I am so happy to see him in a good shape, ready to fight towards the level of his past accomplishments. He and Raf were delighted at the end, and they should be proud. A beautiful surprise for me :luv17:

Julian Zhi Jie YEE - he's quite a performer, our guy has some great moves His SP proved that he is capable of skating and scoring high, he will have plenty of possibilities to improve his FS, too.

Last but not least, Nathan Chen was the king of the ice today. Undisputable winner, and ready to rock this season!

 

[tabsy]

Does anybody have a video of Alexei Bychenko's FS? Trying to catch up on this and can't find it.

Here's one on YouTube, with sound (for now):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPgZ6VvwqeY

 

[karne]

Does the tech panel have slowmo?

They have slo-mo, super slo-mo, and the ability to look frame by frame if they want. In forwards and reverse.

 

[Jeanie19]

Exactly.

It is not progress, it is not athletic, it is not some sort of "ultimate sportsmanship" to go out there and throw every jump up in the air and see what sticks, literally.

For me, that is ho hum boring

A skater should do what they can do. Well. Precise. Clean. In the context of a well executed and well choreographed program. And if not, improve it, or do what you can do until it is improved.

That is sport

And only this competition matters. It should not matter if a skater was scored high on a previous competition.

 

[elektra blue]

so glad that almost everyone is trying to do homage to michael jackson...the king of pop

Bychenko: God knows how long I waited for someone to skate on coppola’s Dracula (wich btw is one of my all time favourite movies!) +5 !

Voronov: I love this man, I don’t even care he wasn’t clean, this fs is emotional end moving, even his tiredness at the end looks dramatic and on point with the overall mood of the entire performance. also as a fan i'm happy for the bronze.

Rizzo: I always complain he skates on my grandma’s musical choices but at least they look like his cup of tea, my parents’s on the other hand not so much.

Chen: slayed as usual and also showed a little personality and interpretation.

Zhi Jie YEE: great talent here and even greater potential, he popped a lot but all things considered this was a good first outing. He is on the way that leads to the top

Brezina back to the 90s: when brezina is one of the cleanest you start wonder one thing or two anyway I like this program overall

P. S.: Ponsart: +5 for shaving his chest


P. S.2: my predictions went to hell, i got just nathan chen.

 

[VegMom]

A skater should do what they can do. Well. Precise. Clean. In the context of a well executed and well choreographed program. And if not, improve it, or do what you can do until it is improved.

That is sport

I actually think that a critical part of what makes something a sport vs a performance is that sports require some last-minute quick thinking and decision-making. There's an element of sport that is about 'in the moment' strategy. In basketball, it's called "Basketball IQ".

The emphasis on 'clean skates' from these rule changes reduce the chance for mid-program decision-making. It takes away from what I feel was the development of the 'sport' aspect of figure skating. If a skater falls now, it's a losing skate... not a clean skate... so why even bother to think fast and re-choreograph the rest of the program to fit in another attempt at that jump? It's too risky.

We can all have our opinions about what we want or what we like in figure skating. Mine is that these rule changes are a step backwards. It feels to me like it's just that some skaters are well-liked and rewarded by judges and other skaters are not. The scoring looks more subjective to me.

---
Edit to add: I reviewed the scoring math and falls can still win against under-rotated and popped jumps. I guess I'm mostly just frustrated with the subjectiveness of the scoring. I'm frustrated that slight UR (so slight that half the people who saw it wouldn't call it, even after watching it in slo-mo) cost so many points. If Vincent's second 4Lz had gotten full base value rather than the 75% base value applied for UR plus the low GOE on that jump then he likely would have gotten third place instead of 5th place. It's frustrating.

I will also admit, again, that I've never been a huge fan of figure skating. I am learning about this for my kid. My kiddo is super passionate about skating. But the more I learn about this world and how utterly subjective it is, the more I get frustrated. It was the 6.0 system when I was a kid and watched. I knew it was subjective then. I thought it was getting better, but I just don't agree with these rule changes. I think the +/-5 was a bad idea. I think that +/-3 was more than enough subjectivity to add to PCS. Honestly, I would prefer if the tech panel scored the elements and the judges scored PCS and just get rid of GOE entirely. The judges are so inconsistent with GOE and it double penalizes small mistakes like Vincent's SLIGHT under-rotation, that it really pushes the scoring back into being extremely subjective.

 

[kevinVchicago]

Here's one on YouTube, with sound (for now):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPgZ6VvwqeY

Thanks!

 

[georgia]

Oh poor Jimmy. But yay, Nathan - still one wonders about school and skating are they conflicting. His hair is an issue; it was even more awkward tonight - He m ight be trying to growing it out. I would just say tongue and cheek - USA it is okay to have no guy with long locks or leave it to an ice dancer. Maybe he thinks longer hair is artisitci 0 I know the French ice dancer years ago used it to his advantage or tied too. Not a great competiton. Ho hum programs overall, too many errors and sloppy skating - not oly from Voronov. Not all Skate Americas are marvels - tis one isn'tlooking great.

I wonder if he wants long hair just because they work better with his crazy schedule.

 

[el henry]

As a Jason fan, I am loving the angst over Nathan’s hair

I like Nathan’s hair, I :luv17: long hair on men (hey I’m a teen/young adult of the 70s and I don’t care, I will always like it) and I like curls.

What he does need is advice from Jason on hair product for competitions. Nate Bartholomay can rock the overdose of hair product look, but I’m not quite sure about Nathan.

Now back to skating

 

[kevinVchicago]

Well, Michal basics were always good. He just always messed up the programs, and you can't give high PCS if skater falls three times. But you can if the skate is great and without any falls.

Yes, that's true! But Michal's performance seemed so messy to me. Nathan's did too actually. I don't see how they were so far ahead of the field in PCS.

 

[VegMom]

The angle I saw Vincent’s 4Lz looked good. I watched again in super slo-mo and still looked good. But let’s just agree for arguments sake that it was under-rotated. Then we need to ask, why should an under-rotated 4Lz be worth less than a 3Lz???

 

[el henry]

The angle I saw Vincent’s 4Lz looked good. I watched again in super slo-mo and still looked good. But let’s just agree for arguments sake that it was under-rotated. Then we need to ask, why should an under-rotated 4Lz be worth less than a 3Lz???

Because it’s a sport. You don’t get points for “trying”.

If you do a clean and beautiful 3Lz, that should be worth more than an underrotated 4Lz, because you have done what you set out to do. If we are just going to say, oh well, 3.5 revolutions beats 3 revolutions, well not something I want to watch.....

 

[Ravyn Rant]

Now that I'm done coveting Nathan's blouse, I thought I'd chime in with a random thought about music selection.
The use of rock songs in skating has increased due to vocals being OK now, so I think the choreographers might want to pay a little more attention when constructing a rock program. Both Julian and Michal skated programs where the music cuts weren't connected to each other. Julian's program sounded like someone picked random cuts off a jukebox. Michal's first two cuts were connected - nice, late 60's blues rock - and the sudden cut to "Thunderstruck" stuck out like a sore thumb for me. Why switch to high-energy 70's arena rock? "Gimme Some Lovin'" could have worked, and IIRC, the Spencer Davis group also did that song, so it would have tied the program back to its beginning.
Rock music has many different styles, and I hope that the choreographers pick up on that, now that music selection is inching toward the 21st century.

 

[WeakAnkles]

Now that I'm done coveting Nathan's blouse, I thought I'd chime in with a random thought about music selection.
The use of rock songs in skating has increased due to vocals being OK now, so I think the choreographers might want to pay a little more attention when constructing a rock program. Both Julian and Michal skated programs where the music cuts weren't connected to each other. Julian's program sounded like someone picked random cuts off a jukebox. Michal's first two cuts were connected - nice, late 60's blues rock - and the sudden cut to "Thunderstruck" stuck out like a sore thumb for me. Why switch to high-energy 70's arena rock? "Gimme Some Lovin'" could have worked, and IIRC, the Spencer Davis group also did that song, so it would have tied the program back to its beginning.
Rock music has many different styles, and I hope that the choreographers pick up on that, now that music selection is inching toward the 21st century.

HUGE :agree:

So many times it seems like Musical Direction By Cuisanart rules the day!

 

[Spirals for Miles]

I'm really hoping Julian has gained some new fans. To me (and yes I am biased), he is the star of this GP. Surpasses everybody's expectations by placing 3rd in the SP with all jumps landed beautifully with great flow, making improvements in his speed and ice coverage even just from ACI. In the FS, he pops the 3A, falls on the 4S but heads over to the other side of the rink to land a 3A, then gets the crowd going and hams it up for the StSq. The definition of the show must go on and to keep performing for the audience. This man will contend for more podiums and next time, he may just make it.

Me! I am a new fan!

 

[QueenOfTheRoad]

Now that I'm done coveting Nathan's blouse, I thought I'd chime in with a random thought about music selection.
The use of rock songs in skating has increased due to vocals being OK now, so I think the choreographers might want to pay a little more attention when constructing a rock program. Both Julian and Michal skated programs where the music cuts weren't connected to each other. Julian's program sounded like someone picked random cuts off a jukebox. Michal's first two cuts were connected - nice, late 60's blues rock - and the sudden cut to "Thunderstruck" stuck out like a sore thumb for me. Why switch to high-energy 70's arena rock? "Gimme Some Lovin'" could have worked, and IIRC, the Spencer Davis group also did that song, so it would have tied the program back to its beginning.
Rock music has many different styles, and I hope that the choreographers pick up on that, now that music selection is inching toward the 21st century.

Sometimes the cuts sound just like ipod shuffle, which is annoying. When you make your sound off, there is no change in choreography, zilch idea why they out another cut actually.

 

[msteach3]

Now that I'm done coveting Nathan's blouse, I thought I'd chime in with a random thought about music selection.
The use of rock songs in skating has increased due to vocals being OK now, so I think the choreographers might want to pay a little more attention when constructing a rock program. Both Julian and Michal skated programs where the music cuts weren't connected to each other. Julian's program sounded like someone picked random cuts off a jukebox. Michal's first two cuts were connected - nice, late 60's blues rock - and the sudden cut to "Thunderstruck" stuck out like a sore thumb for me. Why switch to high-energy 70's arena rock? "Gimme Some Lovin'" could have worked, and IIRC, the Spencer Davis group also did that song, so it would have tied the program back to its beginning.
Rock music has many different styles, and I hope that the choreographers pick up on that, now that music selection is inching toward the 21st century.

I'm just thrilled there seem to be less warhorses this season. A welcome and fresh change. :hap85:

 

[oatmella]

Me! I am a new fan!

Me too!

 

[sworddance21]

I thought Nathan's FS was beautiful. It was nice to see - love his use of port de bras and how he moves his body away from center. It put me in mind of some of Patrick Chan's work (with no where near the edge quality, mind you...) or some of the other very artistic skaters. Nice stuff and bodes well for where he'll go this season.


Seeing the new scoring system at work makes me VERY interested to see how it will help Jason Brown.