2018 Skate Canada Challenge

[4everchan]

finally finished watching the men..

Joseph was just wonderful.
Nic was okay
Nam was better than yesterday.
Gogo is growing up. He looks like a mini prince.
Elladj had a yellow shirt and a program that sounds like his old EXH

for the rest... well.... I'd say not bad considering that 5 guys from the contenders have byes. But yeah... the guys look nervous already...what will it be when the olympic spot is at the tip of your toepick?

 

[SnowWhite]

thank you... this is exactly what I am thinking and i tried to write this on the Canadian thread....

they will give a swan song competition (4cc) to guys who are retiring etc... which is nice... but won't do much to develop the kids who seem to be ready now.

For Lajoie/Lagha... at least Soucisse-Firus deserve to get competitions but I would put LL as number 5 in Canada right now...that's definitely 4CC material.

I am not really worried about pairs... we have a few pairs who are senior and can get some more mileage. W/M impressed me today though... I get tessa and scott vibes looking at them.... gorgeous couple on the ice.

BUT THE BOYS : get them out.

I think Skate Canada just thought : meh... we have 5 on the national team... only two spots at nationals... no need to help the juniors....

it's okay.. i am all for keeping Joseph at home if he keeps skating almost flawless programs.


Another very skate canada thing : since when to top ten seniors at challenge get scores like 50-60 PCS... I mean really? These guys have competed internationally and got in the 70s... and then you have a clear great performer like Joseph getting below 8 in every category?

I wonder, if Patrick had skated at Challenge if he would have broken the 9s.

Not sending Lajoie/Lagha out to get the seniors scores is the only one that really makes sense, even though I would have liked to see them at 4CC. But they had the JGPF and apparently Marjorie had an injury some time after their last JGP, so I'd totally get if they just wanted to focus on their junior programs since they probably want to medal at the final. It's harder for dance with the different pattern, though they are doing senior programs at Nats. Still, they'll have about a month between JGPF and Nats to focus on that, instead of splitting time leading up to the final.

The others though...

 

[4everchan]

Not sending Lajoie/Lagha out to get the seniors scores is the only one that really makes sense, even though I would have liked to see them at 4CC. But they had the JGPF and apparently Marjorie had an injury some time after their last JGP, so I'd totally get if they just wanted to focus on their junior programs since they probably want to medal at the final. It's harder for dance with the different pattern, though they are doing senior programs at Nats. Still, they'll have about a month between JGPF and Nats to focus on that, instead of splitting time leading up to the final.

The others though...

yup... so our protégé ( i think that's how we will call him now ) did his job

you know... i never knew he had a flip edge problem.... but well, it's Canada

 

[siberia82]

I can't be in Pierrefonds today, but I wanted to wish all the junior men good luck, who will be on the ice in 7 minutes or so. Please have better SPs than the senior guys.

Gogo is growing up. He looks like a mini prince.

I was thinking the exact same thing! This is my first time seeing him compete in person, and I was surprised by how mature he seemed for a 12-going-on-13-year-old. He may be a lot shorter than his competitors, but his demeanour made you feel that he totally belonged among them.

 

[nadster]

I am maddest about Walsh/Michaud and Phan not getting any senior B's.

Phan showed he deserved a senior B at the Quebec summer competition in Quebec even thought he skated junior there. He landed the 3A in both programs and the 4T in the long. His jumps have great quality and he has outstanding skating skills.

Walsh / Michaud have shown especially in the 1st JGP where they medalled beating the current world junior champs ( the Aussies ).

It seems these skaters are being punished for competing junior in the summer competitions but it made sense as their priority should be on the junior international circuit. We also rely on these skaters to ace JW to max out the JGP slots. But these skaters should be getting senior B's for t

Walsh/ Michaud must go senior internationally next year. Phan has a good chance of medalling at nationals this year at least. With Gogolev being finally able to compete junior internationally next year , we will have a good core competing junior next year.


I can understand Lajoie/Lagha not getting a senior B as the senior requirements are so different from juniors and the JGPF should be the focus right now. I think they will finish 5th at senior nationals this year even with undercooked senior programs.

 

[siberia82]

Joseph Phan LP (Fancam 1080p): http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6ay5ux

Julianne Séguin & Charlie Bilodeau SP (Fancam 1080p): https://vimeo.com/245246898 I had to upload this on Vimeo because it was rejected by Dailymotion.

 

[LoveSkater]

So sad. After Japanese and Russian competitions this ladies event is dissapointing.
Emy Decelles looks like star on this field.

 

[Mango]

I don't think it's a surprise to anyone that ladies is the weakest discipline in Canada. If you ask TGee she can tell you more about how coaches in Canada have been training the ladies for years in a way that ultimately doesn't help them reach their potential. But now that's apparently changing. Alison, Aurora, and Alicia Pineault are the ones to keep an eye on for me.

Walsh/Michaud should have been given a senior B after Summer Skate. Their FS there was . Well it's good that a handful of juniors will be on the National team heading into next season. They can at least get the $$ if not the experience.

As for people competing as juniors in the summer and seniors during the rest of the year I think there is a requirement for people who are candidates for JGP assignment to compete as juniors in the summer for monitoring purposes. I feel like I read that somewhere (the Next Gen criteria??).

I see Stairs/Royer getting good scores in Canada but they don't score as well internationally. It looks like they'll have to go out with Fabbri/Pietrantonio to have a showdown for that 2nd JWC spot unless F/P overtake them at Nationals.

I'm looking at those JGP assignments and these results and confirming what I'd argued before - monitoring needs to be improved.

 

[4everchan]

So sad. After Japanese and Russian competitions this ladies event is dissapointing.
Emy Decelles looks like star on this field.

One of the things canada is lacking is depth. So at challenge, where the top 4 or 5 ladies have byes, you cannot expect to see the highest of level. That only happens once a year in national events: final fligjt at nationals. Other than that, we do not match other top nations.

 

[ChiquitaBanana]

Am I the only irked by Tamura’s PCS compated to some other girls like Decelles or
Pineault? Decelles is just flying across the ice and has such an intriguing choreography.
As for Cotop, I feel like watching a fast-forward stop-motion movie. She has some goods and some guts, but lacks in the legato department, if I can say so.

 

[4everchan]

Am I the only irked by Tamura’s PCS compated to some other girls like Decelles or
Pineault? Decelles is just flying across the ice and has such an intriguing choreography.
As for Cotop, I feel like watching a fast-forward stop-motion movie. She has some goods and some guts, but lacks in the legato department, if I can say so.

PCS have been kept quite low here... I guess Sarah got some boost from being a national team member...

 

[nadster]

As for people competing as juniors in the summer and seniors during the rest of the year I think there is a requirement for people who are candidates for JGP assignment to compete as juniors in the summer for monitoring purposes. I feel like I read that somewhere (the Next Gen criteria??).

I see Stairs/Royer getting good scores in Canada but they don't score as well internationally. It looks like they'll have to go out with Fabbri/Pietrantonio to have a showdown for that 2nd JWC spot unless F/P overtake them at Nationals.

I'm looking at those JGP assignments and these results and confirming what I'd argued before - monitoring needs to be improved.

1. About the requirement to compete junior in summer for the senior domestic skaters. I can understand as you want your skaters going into the JGP having already competed their junior programs in summer competition.

Now dance is a different kettle of fish as the junior and senior SPs have to be 2 completely different programs. Junior scores are no indication of what senior scores would be in ice dance.

But if a skater in singles or pairs ( who skate basically the same programs junior and senior with modifications ) skated well enough in summer competition to deserve a senior B according to the criteria and/or the skater medalled on the JGP ; that skater should get a chance to compete in a senior B.

2. The junior ice dance situtation

I checked the ISU site for season bests ( this season alone ) and Stairs/Royer have the higher season best this year

72 126.97 Ashlynne STAIRS / Lee ROYER CAN ISU JGP Minsk Arena Cup 2017 22.09.2017

82 119.67 Alicia FABBRI / Claudio PIETRANTONIO CAN ISU JGP Riga Cup 2017 09.09.2017


Stairs/Royer did not medal on the JGP this year but Fabbri/Pietrantonio did. That could be an indication ( hard to tell as some tech control panels are more lenient than others ) that Stairs/Royer competed in the tougher JGP events.


And I agree about the dance monitoring especially. They weren't in line with the season bests on the JGP among those who have competed this year.

Here is a list of season best of all junior teams this year on the JGP except Lajoie/ Lagha for obvious reasons. It really indicates the bloodbath for the junior national title this year. It also shows how different the Canadian judging is to the international judging.


72 126.97 Ashlynne STAIRS / Lee ROYER CAN ISU JGP Minsk Arena Cup 2017 22.09.2017
76 122.40 Olivia MCISAAC / Elliott GRAHAM CAN ISU JGP Baltic Cup 2017 07.10.2017
77 122.00 Ellie FISHER / Simon-Pierre MALETTE-PAQUE CAN ISU JGP Croatia Cup 2017 30.09.2017
81 120.55 Seungyun HAN / Grayson LOCHHEAD CAN ISU JGP Baltic Cup 2017 07.10.2017
82 119.67 Alicia FABBRI / Claudio PIETRANTONIO CAN ISU JGP Riga Cup 2017 09.09.2017
93 113.25 Natalie D'ALESSANDRO / Bruce WADDELL CAN ISU JGP Brisbane 2017 26.08.2017
100 110.42 Valerie TAILLEFER / Jason CHAN CAN ISU JGP Riga Cup 2017 09.09.2017
120 96.22 Irina GALIYANOVA / Tommy TANG CAN ISU JGP Cup of Austria 2017 01.09.2017
121 94.96 Nina MIZUKI / Veniamins VOLSKIS CAN ISU JGP Minsk Arena Cup 2017 22.09.2017

 

[4everchan]

1. About the requirement to compete junior in summer for the senior domestic skaters. I can understand as you want your skaters going into the JGP having already competed their junior programs in summer competition.

Now dance is a different kettle of fish as the junior and senior SPs have to be 2 completely different programs. Junior scores are no indication of what senior scores would be in ice dance.

But if a skater in singles or pairs ( who skate basically the same programs junior and senior with modifications ) skated well enough in summer competition to deserve a senior B according to the criteria and/or the skater medalled on the JGP ; that skater should get a chance to compete in a senior B.

2. The junior ice dance situtation

I checked the ISU site for season bests ( this season alone ) and Stairs/Royer have the higher season best this year

72 126.97 Ashlynne STAIRS / Lee ROYER CAN ISU JGP Minsk Arena Cup 2017 22.09.2017

82 119.67 Alicia FABBRI / Claudio PIETRANTONIO CAN ISU JGP Riga Cup 2017 09.09.2017


Stairs/Royer did not medal on the JGP this year but Fabbri/Pietrantonio did. That could be an indication ( hard to tell as some tech control panels are more lenient than others ) that Stairs/Royer competed in the tougher JGP events.


And I agree about the dance monitoring especially. They weren't in line with the season bests on the JGP among those who have competed this year.

Here is a list of season best of all junior teams this year on the JGP except Lajoie/ Lagha for obvious reasons. It really indicates the bloodbath for the junior national title this year. It also shows how different the Canadian judging is to the international judging.


72 126.97 Ashlynne STAIRS / Lee ROYER CAN ISU JGP Minsk Arena Cup 2017 22.09.2017
76 122.40 Olivia MCISAAC / Elliott GRAHAM CAN ISU JGP Baltic Cup 2017 07.10.2017
77 122.00 Ellie FISHER / Simon-Pierre MALETTE-PAQUE CAN ISU JGP Croatia Cup 2017 30.09.2017
81 120.55 Seungyun HAN / Grayson LOCHHEAD CAN ISU JGP Baltic Cup 2017 07.10.2017
82 119.67 Alicia FABBRI / Claudio PIETRANTONIO CAN ISU JGP Riga Cup 2017 09.09.2017
93 113.25 Natalie D'ALESSANDRO / Bruce WADDELL CAN ISU JGP Brisbane 2017 26.08.2017
100 110.42 Valerie TAILLEFER / Jason CHAN CAN ISU JGP Riga Cup 2017 09.09.2017
120 96.22 Irina GALIYANOVA / Tommy TANG CAN ISU JGP Cup of Austria 2017 01.09.2017
121 94.96 Nina MIZUKI / Veniamins VOLSKIS CAN ISU JGP Minsk Arena Cup 2017 22.09.2017

sure but particularly with junior ice dance... comparing throughout different competitions is not something I'd do trust much...
even at Challenge the teams scored so differently from SD to FD. for instance Fabri/Pietrantonio won the FD at challenge....

I like the top 4 teams from challenge... and I like how they are close to one another in points... and i simply hope they keep pushing each others. That's what h need them to do.

 

[SnowWhite]

2. The junior ice dance situtation

I checked the ISU site for season bests ( this season alone ) and Stairs/Royer have the higher season best this year

72 126.97 Ashlynne STAIRS / Lee ROYER CAN ISU JGP Minsk Arena Cup 2017 22.09.2017

82 119.67 Alicia FABBRI / Claudio PIETRANTONIO CAN ISU JGP Riga Cup 2017 09.09.2017


Stairs/Royer did not medal on the JGP this year but Fabbri/Pietrantonio did. That could be an indication ( hard to tell as some tech control panels are more lenient than others ) that Stairs/Royer competed in the tougher JGP events.


And I agree about the dance monitoring especially. They weren't in line with the season bests on the JGP among those who have competed this year.

Here is a list of season best of all junior teams this year on the JGP except Lajoie/ Lagha for obvious reasons. It really indicates the bloodbath for the junior national title this year. It also shows how different the Canadian judging is to the international judging.


72 126.97 Ashlynne STAIRS / Lee ROYER CAN ISU JGP Minsk Arena Cup 2017 22.09.2017
76 122.40 Olivia MCISAAC / Elliott GRAHAM CAN ISU JGP Baltic Cup 2017 07.10.2017
77 122.00 Ellie FISHER / Simon-Pierre MALETTE-PAQUE CAN ISU JGP Croatia Cup 2017 30.09.2017
81 120.55 Seungyun HAN / Grayson LOCHHEAD CAN ISU JGP Baltic Cup 2017 07.10.2017
82 119.67 Alicia FABBRI / Claudio PIETRANTONIO CAN ISU JGP Riga Cup 2017 09.09.2017
93 113.25 Natalie D'ALESSANDRO / Bruce WADDELL CAN ISU JGP Brisbane 2017 26.08.2017
100 110.42 Valerie TAILLEFER / Jason CHAN CAN ISU JGP Riga Cup 2017 09.09.2017
120 96.22 Irina GALIYANOVA / Tommy TANG CAN ISU JGP Cup of Austria 2017 01.09.2017
121 94.96 Nina MIZUKI / Veniamins VOLSKIS CAN ISU JGP Minsk Arena Cup 2017 22.09.2017

These SBs aren't all right though. Fabbri/Pietrantonio scored 136.01 in Italy, where they medalled. And Fisher/Malette-Paquette scored 133.38 at the same event. For whatever reason the lists haven't been fully updated.

 

[4everchan]

final flight of ladies now... the previous flight was... erm... yeah

 

[nadster]

sure but particularly with junior ice dance... comparing throughout different competitions is not something I'd do trust much...
even at Challenge the teams scored so differently from SD to FD. for instance Fabri/Pietrantonio won the FD at challenge....

I like the top 4 teams from challenge... and I like how they are close to one another in points... and i simply hope they keep pushing each others. That's what h need them to do.

Totally agree your caveats. I did note the lack of consistency in technical panels. Just putting out the raw data. Some people say Stairs/Royer is less liked by international panels than these other teams. The data shows that is not the case and that indeed the top 5 teams are so close together.

Junior ice dance will be a bloodbath at nationals. Even how strict ( or lenient ) the technical panel is will have an effect when it it this close.

 

[nadster]

These SBs aren't all right though. Fabbri/Pietrantonio scored 136.01 in Italy, where they medalled. And Fisher/Malette-Paquette scored 133.38 at the same event. For whatever reason the lists haven't been fully updated.

THanks for telling me. I only quoted from ISU's own site . Hard to believe the site is that out of date. Especially since senior GP scores which take place after the JGPs are listed.

 

[4everchan]

Totally agree your caveats. I did note the lack of consistency in technical panels. Just putting out the raw data. Some people say Stairs/Royer is less liked by international panels than these other teams. The data shows that is not the case and that indeed the top 5 teams are so close together.

Junior ice dance will be a bloodbath at nationals. Even how strict ( or lenient ) the technical panel is will have an effect when it it this close.

do not miss snowwhite's post though... jgp italy wasn't featured on the list and there, two of our teams really beat stairs/royer by a huge margin

i like our junior dance teams.... i enjoyed a lot of them watching jgp for the first time this season. Dance was for me the relief of discipline for Canadians. We do have a decent pool of talent. Let's hope that L/L bring us lots of JGP spots for next year !

ETA i see you did see it now (the updated scores)

 

[4everchan]

so i fell asleep during the final flight... and woke up with michelle long having won the fp... good for her.

i guess it was a disaster for the final flight.

anyone knows how many spots are left for nationals? I believe we have 4 girls with BYEs....

 

[nadster]

so i fell asleep during the final flight... and woke up with michelle long having won the fp... good for her.

i guess it was a disaster for the final flight.

anyone knows how many spots are left for nationals? I believe we have 4 girls with BYEs....

Top 14 at challenge go to nationals plus the 4 byes.