2018 US Championships Sr Men FS | Page 97 | Golden Skate

2018 US Championships Sr Men FS

Why can't he? Nationals has the most weight in the criteria and he was second. Vincent has one challenger series medal and he won Junior Worlds. Do those low tier medals plus a bronze outweigh a silver at the big event? I think at most it's a tie, so Ross should go the Olympics and Vincent to Worlds. Vincent needs more experience. If he is the real deal, he will get another shot at the Olympics. Let's face it, the only US male skater who has a chance at a medal at the Olys is Nathan. So it doesn't matter where Ross ends up. It does matter at Worlds, which is why Adam needs to be on the World team. And Adam's strong showing on the GP and other Fall events means he should be on the Olympic team, too.

Nationals is one of three Tier 1 criteria. My understanding is they’re weighed equally. If Nats outweighed everything, there’d be no point to the selection criteria. USFS has been very clear - and the skaters know - that a medal at Nats doesn’t guarantee a spot on the World / Olympic teams.

Ross had a great skate here, but he basically meets no other criteria. He’s 26, has been on the Senior GP since 2010, and has rarely done well internationally, including at Worlds, where he’s been sent twice. I think the USFS cares about the team event and maintaining 3 Worlds spots, so I can see why they might not want to rely on Ross for either team.
 
Especially given his anticipatory proclamation that nationals was going to be his “coronation”.

One of many citations of his statement...... http://olympics.nbcsports.com/tag/adam-rippon/

Hubris’ll get you every time....

If he did say that and his comments haven't been taken out of context then I hope the Olympics committee will leave him home. His comments makes him look so smug, as if he's the next best thing since sliced bread. :slink:
 
I don't think this quote could sound even remotely respectful of his competitors in any context tbh :D
 
So here's an interesting scenario. What if Nathan medals at the Olympics -- and he has a wonderful opportunity to win -- would it be possible that he ends up not going to Worlds? After such a long season, it doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility that he won't want to do Worlds. Then you might want to put Jason as 1st alternate?

And actually Jason is such a team player -- I think he would actually follow through. He tends to peak later in the season as we've seen in the past. And he gets higher PCS internationally than anybody.

Ugh this is actually more complicated when I think about it.

I can't think of that scenario for Jason's sake who placed even behind Grant at Nationals and his consistency this season is pretty wild. Nathan has no World medal yet because of his boot problems, so he is hungry for every major title medal. After Sochi, Hanyu went to Worlds and barely won over Machida. I think the title is not deserving, but he benefited from his OGM anyway. It would be unwise for Nathan not to seize such an opportunity to take another big title at Worlds as an Olympic medalist or champion if it becomes true.
 
I don't care for Adam's or Ashley's quotes but well...they are entitled to freedom of expression.

However, I hope that Olympic committee will watch all 3 LP - Ross, Vincent and Adam's back-to-back before they decide.

Adam's LP is simply a lot of bird-like hand movements with crossovers for 80% of skate. Without great jumps, what's there...stsq and spins weren't great either.

In terms of being full of great transitions, footwork and details, excellently executed to sassy music, Ross brought it.:luv17:

Seriously, watch them back-to-back to judge the quality of the programs.
 
He and Wagner are cut from the same cloth.

Agreed. Love Ashley. But both seem to be too sassy at the wrong moments. I wish she would have been less furious, especially considering how her shocked expression from Sochi pretty much went viral and left even people who didn't watch skating have negative perception of her. :palmf:
 
I can't think of that scenario for Jason's sake who placed even behind Grant at Nationals and his consistency this season is pretty wild. Nathan has no World medal yet because of his boot problems, so he is hungry for every major title medal. After Sochi, Hanyu went to Worlds and barely won over Machida. I think the title is not deserving, but he benefited from his OGM anyway. It would be unwise for Nathan not to seize such an opportunity to take another big title at Worlds as an Olympic medalist or champion if it becomes true.

That's a good point.

I have a feeling we'll be seeing some crazy alternate scenarios though. I think it's not out of the realm of possibility for Jason to be chosen as 1st alternate, when I think about it more. I personally think he doesn't have a case to go to Worlds really as a team member, but even with his struggles -- he still had a better fall than Vincent, Ross and Grant, and I think they might put that into consideration when choosing alternates.

Actually, Jason's placement in the alternates for both Olympics/Worlds will actually be VERY telling in terms of how USFS sees him.
 
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to kevinVchicago- why not send jimmy ma- he finished off the podium like adam & jason-yes adam received the pewter medal.
did it help ashley--no, did her going to grand prix help her no. they stated they used worlds 4th to her 7th, and karen beat ashley at last two u.s. nat'l championships.

you can say that about whom.

so they may announce but who is already named on the team.
 
I don't care for Adam's or Ashley's quotes but well...they are entitled to freedom of expression.

However, I hope that Olympic committee will watch all 3 LP - Ross, Vincent and Adam's back-to-back before they decide.

Adam's LP is simply a lot of bird-like hand movements with crossovers for 80% of skate. Without great jumps, what's there...stsq and spins weren't great either.

In terms of being full of great transitions, footwork and details, excellently executed to sassy music, Ross brought it.:luv17:

Seriously, watch them back-to-back to judge the quality of the programs.

I think Ross will flop when he goes to Olympics just like Jeremy Abbott did after a fantastic Nationals. Even so, i want him to go. I also want him to prove me wrong, no matter how unlikely it may be, basing on his past results.

As for watching back to back, there's hardly much point. I'm sure judges have a good idea who will flop and who will not, and will also have clear pic from last night. Until this morning I was hoping for Rippon to get the green light. But the man sounds too big for his boots.
 
Adam's LP is simply a lot of bird-like hand movements with crossovers for 80% of skate. Without great jumps, what's there...stsq and spins weren't great either.

In terms of being full of great transitions, footwork and details, excellently executed to sassy music, Ross brought it.:luv17:

Seriously, watch them back-to-back to judge the quality of the programs.

Let's not go overboard. His layback is breathtaking. The rest - I agree with. Adam's transitions are really generic and I don't understand all the cries throughout the season of his PCS being too low. PCS is not even all that subjective and random as people make it seem imo, and it's consisted of many many factors (except ofc at nationals where it's a bufoonery in every country). Maybe Adam has the potential to show so much more PCS-wise but he just doesn't.

If they watch the programs back to back I hope they take a good look at Vincent's and try to consider anything other than the base value of his jumps.... I mean. It's horrendous and I can't believe they gave him 87 PCS :hpull: 87!!!
 
I don't think this quote could sound even remotely respectful of his competitors in any context tbh :D

That's not all, either. Rippon contemptuously announced, too, that the only reason he wouldn’t be going to the Olympics would be if other competitors’ mothers selected the team....

http://olympics.nbcsports.com/tag/adam-rippon/

Shudder. This is called “counting your chickens before they’re hatched” and all kinds of nastiness besides.
 
He and Wagner are cut from the same cloth.

Oh, bugger off you guys. This is how many athletes talk. It's just a way of psyching yourself up and not selling yourself short before big competitions. It's not everyone's cup of tea, but there's no need to be judgmental. And Adam actually has been the #2 US guy all season. Consistently. The international judges have rightfully given him the components to back that up. He popped two jumps last night. It'll change nothing. He'll be on that team.
 
(Not referring to who should be on the team, or why. I'll be happy for Ross if he's chosen.) I just rewatched Ross' FS and I started to fall asleep. The jump landings almost all seemed to be iffy. The technical panel went really easy on him. Also, I didn't see any performance happening until the "Crazy Little Thing Called Love" section, when he started communicating happy feelings until he started communicating excited feelings at the end for going clean. Overall, it was so-so! (Don't mean to be a hater.)

Vincent Zhou's performance was more complex emotionally and choreographically I thought.
 
Oh, bugger off you guys. This is how many athletes talk. It's just a way of psyching yourself up and not selling yourself short before big competitions. It's not everyone's cup of tea, but there's no need to be judgmental. And Adam actually has been the #2 US guy all season. Consistently. The international judges have rightfully given him the components to back that up. He popped two jumps last night. It'll change nothing. He'll be on that team.

[emoji55]
 
Oh, bugger off you guys. This is how many athletes talk. It's just a way of psyching yourself up and not selling yourself short before big competitions. It's not everyone's cup of tea, but there's no need to be judgmental. And Adam actually has been the #2 US guy all season. Consistently. The international judges have rightfully given him the components to back that up. He popped two jumps last night. It'll change nothing. He'll be on that team.

I think bragging a little is ok. Nathan does it but he makes it sound more like his own bravado and not about him being better than his rivals or that if he were to receive lower scores there must be some shenanigans going on. There's an art to it as well.
 
After first shock after checking up the forum and results in the morning, I watched last 3 groups in starting order (kudos to 'NO SPOILERS' thread!) - I think that Hitchcock himself would not figure out such tangled, intense scenario for this event...The highs and lows of drama were really hard to take at places, and yeah - tissues were necessary for both kinds of drama...

My general impression is that there is so much musicality and dedication for performing among US Men - I enjoyed almost every program from those 3 groups I've watched, there was always some little gem/highlight to smile about for me. And I love the variety of musical choices with different approaches towards them - capitalizing on the storyline or the composition, or the mood of the piece. Each skater set himself apart with his respective program I feel - like I wrote in SP thread, this is the most valuable and cherished aspect of US Men's skating for me, this diversity. Additionally, I have to say that from my personal point of view group 2 in particular gave me a sentimental road to memories with those choices of music...which made me even more teared up.

Despite mistakes, I saw some great quality in Tim's and Emanuel's performances (this 3A fall from Tim though looked beyond painful...) - I appreciated how 'flowy' and continous their skating was, there was this softness in how they moved to the music, smooth transitioning between elements, musicality. Tim in particular also impressed me with his spins and some of transitions out there; despite those 2 falls, for me he fought very hard to not let them affect the performance - and succeeded.

I really have no wonder why Sean Rabitt is crowds' fave - I love the fact that he seems so confident in what he does, so consumed into performing and so into the interaction with people around, even if he has no top-notch skills or jumping arsenal. What he has - and some better skaters results/points-wise would wish to have or have more - is ice presence and this kind of ownership/belief expressed about his material: he always steps on ice with purpose and poise which I admire so much. Yes, the program can be perceived as cheesy or tacky, but it moves the crowd and makes people smile from the get-go, which even softens eventual blow/upset about falls/other mistakes. Loved the energy and the simplicity of the message taken from Sean's performance of being happy and give the feeling out to the others:)

Jimmy Ma is definitely a revelation of this Nats - what a performer! And no wonder really about his SP going viral - one can dwell about lack of technical competitiveness, Jimmy goes with 'Turn down for what' competitive program, pushing the borders of people's perception and carrying the sport outside to the bigger mass. I very much enjoyed his FS, too, even if it is an Olympic occurence of Rachmaninoff:laugh: - the program is very well constructed to the music (personally finding the arrangement of the piece very matching Jimmy's aesthetic of powerful, energetic performer) and Jimmy's skating is all about this explosiveness I find quite exciting.

Reading this thread, I think that gravy has pointed out a thing that I couldn't voice out myself about Andrew (and Alexei in my opinion, too) - this 'Joubert-like' similarity, glimpses of way of performing in both skaters' performances. They both seem already manly than boyish/juniorish to me, with how they are interpreting stuff and with their presence. Andrew has this spark of something unique in his skating for me and I wish he would get more consistency going forward, also like this 'Moulin Rouge' FS for him and kind of wish he'd keep it for the next season, re-vamping it. If Alexei had a flu and was at hospital a day before free, I have nothing but admiration for him, looking how his FS went - another fighter's spirit. Also like the program choice for him - it made him even more senior in my opinion AND well portrayed this 'Gladiator' character (I do wish Gabrielle Daleman would use this version of the song for her now previous FS...).

Now, two of my top 3 performances - Alexander Johnson and Tomoki Hiwatashi. Tomoki simply blew me away - from the music (my beloved 'Last of the Mohicans' score), through his jumping attack, to intricacy of choreography details he grabbed my attention from start to finish. Lovely musicality, carriage, speed across the ice and power exuding from everything, he really was determined to make this skate memorable I feel. 4-3 combo to start set the tone, then an amazing choreo sequence, cantilever, split, this 3Lz sequence (one of the best jumping passes of entire event for me)...just so many highlights! Alexander has simply this 'aura' about him in this FS program, the languid, fluid quality of his movement, creativity in transitions (especially in and out of spins, love!), this understated simplicity of the whole image, but such compelling message and impression taken from it. One of the very few skaters who works excellently with music with lyrics - his skating does not battle them for attention, but is complimentary with mood and narration of the song, and Peter Gabriel's ones are not the easiest to translate into competitive program I feel. There's also this spohistication, elegant outlook/feel about Alexander's whole program, way he presents it - it's very natural, quiet and mostly about the high quality of integration/blending those various aspects of skating into very intricate unity.

I'm a bit torn about Vincent...While I applaud his courage for going all out for the quads and the program in general, I found it very hot'n'cold in expression: engaged moments were there with those empty ones for me (but it is just a matter of my personal perception of course). Saying that, I do think he still managed to create something special and unique for him to remember and I do believe it has to do a lot also with brilliant program made by one and only Jeff Buttle - for me, this is a self-playing material by itself, with great build of emotion/mood, balanced tempo, music chosen/matched together so well, giving out this sense of tension (pretty much being in agreement with those abundance of quads;)). Speaking more about the content, the opening combo kind of rocked my universe for a moment and really set the tone for the whole program (another pros about choreography), also this 3Lz sequence at the very end got me like 'how the hell he whipped this one out?!?!'. Not really feeling in power to even predict if he will be in Olympic team, I do hope that if yes - he and his team will maybe sit and re-think an ability/potential to do quads versus actual execution level and profit from it received by Vincent. I do get his ability and strive for quads, however I wonder if it is too much for him and for this program to put those 5 quads by principle of having them per se in light of executing the material in competition with solid, consistent rate...

The skate Ross had was for me a way more than just throwing a monkey wrench (casually) in USFSA backyard (and our predictions:laugh:) - this was really a moment on par with Jason's 'Riverdance' four years ago, transforming a competitive, athletic program into exhibition experience on instant. The thing is about Ross that for quite some time he manages to make his programs work performance-wise like exhibition/show numbers, full of novelty/unexpected factor about his musical choices and this nonchalant, 'je ne sais quoi' feel about his interpretation/expression. One thing that radiated from Ross since the very first moves was conviction and dedication to the way he wants to present this program, this natural involvement into music, lyrics, mood set by Queen choice - and this kind of set him apart from other 'top' contenders I feel; he approached the event prepared, but way more 'relaxed' and laidback than some other skater I feel, which certainly showed its advantage. This Queen choice, songs selected ('Crazy little thing called love' in particular), whole demeanor, the way choreo built towards finale, great balance between being lyrical and a showman added to this 'ease' perceived by the audience: I feel that this whole Ross FS experience was more about constant smile, humming along with Freddy, engaging with Ross than chewing nails from the tension (will he hit or miss?) or squinting eye for unerrotations. The overall quality of the program reminded me instantly of Nic Nadeau's Elvis medley FS, particularly at last Canadian Nationals - solidness of the program translated into exhibition-like quality of the performance. After all that ups and downs in Ross career, I just want to hug him and thank him for a special moment shared with so many people yesterday, and love the proud look in his coaches' eyes, their reaction:). BTW, Mrs. P, I also thought of You seeing results in the morning and seeing Ross' performance!:laugh:

The most difficult skate to comprehend was Adam's - and while I kind of was at peace with Jason's one (sad, of course, but the season was not a perfect build towards Nationals, more below on that), Adam made me scratch my head so hard in confusion, disbelief, hurt, disappointment(?), don't know really how should I name this feeling after he finished...Such SP, probably his best FS program ever, such amazing season, battling against all odds, naysayers and dislocated shoulder, rocking those practices, hitting every single jump like nobody's business in the warm-up and two pops at the very end from a guy that has a reputation of un-poppable, I just...can't. The strangest thing was that those pops were in his last 2 jumping passes, I try to reason them as simple distraction, loosening himself, lack of concentration, but the pop on the flip was almost...deliberate? I'm just too sad to be rational probably. The program went so nicely, this 3F-3Lo combo like WUT, 3As on fleek, spins so gorgeous, none affected by 4Lz fall. It pains me to see something like that, because Adam gave us so many memorable performances of that unique program and this time one thing I will remember will be those darn pops, not the gorgeous rest...

And Jason - well, it was also a pain for me to see FS unfolding like that, but mostly because those errors in execution simply sucked out the energy and narrative from the program; Jason's skating overall, transitioning, choreo sequence, spins were all there, but the moment and the atmosphere were long gone. And to be clear - I do not want to make Jason's mistakes less important and impactful than they were, that's totally not my thing, but somehow I did not take his execution as granted from the very beginning of the season, especially seeing how it progressed (to my despair). Still, those pops in combos were so uncharacteristic from Jason in my opinion, I do wonder if this was too much of pressurng hismelf - or too much pushing himself out of his usual rhythm...The whole outcome sure brings sadness, but I try to think of it as a 'wake up call' for Jason, exactly at the end of the season (presumably?) - I trust him to come up with his team to conclusions and moves that will bring back his overall quality/integrity of skating, 'repeatdness' of it, balancing it out with progress. And the similar baffling feel reading those critical opinions about Jason's behaviour in K'n'C as it was yesterday with Ashley's reaction - honestly, I don't understand why people are expecting drama, crying and beating himself attitude after botched skate from Jason, out of all skaters: Ashley reacted as 'Ashley's being Ashley', same goes to Jason, as he reacted in the way he's normally functioning. The one quality of Jason that I admire in particular is a form of self-realization and self-consciousness when it comes to where he is with his skating in the whole field - and his reaction proved that once again; he is far from dumb and sure knows that this very season was far from ideal, particularly considering struggles with 3A, consistency, maybe keeping up with nerves abve all that, and he still maintained a positive attitude going forward, nothing new with yesterday's reaction for me. Of course he must felt disappointed, probably mainly about himself and those missed combos, but if he knew himself that there was a problem and a quality nowhere near required one, it's the most important thing. And I find this 'holding hands' thing with Kori/Rohene very unique and explaining the level of their bond formed together; personally, I'd rather see more of that attitude that side-eyed scolding after botched jump or constant eye-roll, let alone not sitting with your student after bad performance. But everything has its audience.
 
I think Ross will flop when he goes to Olympics just like Jeremy Abbott did after a fantastic Nationals. Even so, i want him to go. I also want him to prove me wrong, no matter how unlikely it may be, basing on his past results.

As for watching back to back, there's hardly much point. I'm sure judges have a good idea who will flop and who will not, and will also have clear pic from last night. Until this morning I was hoping for Rippon to get the green light. But the man sounds too big for his boots.

In Ross’s favor, there’s something to be said—from a marketing standpoint—“dark horse comes from nowhere to make the Olympic team”. This will play well on NBC. Then there’s the message, “stick to your goals, work hard and never let them go. Life is difficult; work through the ups and downs, and you, too, can succeed”. With interviews and fluff giving examples.

You can hardly beat that for a positive message! Sort of like Brown’s for Sochi, though there was a difference in senior experience (not sure it matters for this marketing pitch).

Nathan gets deservedly plastered with fabulous messages, too.

But what all-American theme can you milk from Adam’s history? “Coronations” and braggadoccio don’t play well, especially for the Olympics, unless—and this is a big IF—there’s a win. What is Adam’s standout story-line?
 
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