2018 US Championships Sr Men SP

[penniavaswen]

Maybe it's because the people on television spoke about how Nathan wasn't feeling great, and that skewed my opinion, but I thought Nathan didn't skate that program as freely as I've seen it before. He looked restrained, as though he were conserving energy, simply trying to get through it. Whether I would have thought that without advance notice of his illness? Who knows. Still, the elements other than the 3A were very good, so no big complaints.

I was in the arena, and a competition virgin at that. I heard nothing about Nathan being ill beforehand, just his jump issues during practice, and even I could see that there wasn't the same commitment on the choreography. I have watched his SP probably dozens of times from the other events, so I had really high expectations and was quite distressed that he might have been injured. Didn't stop me from tossing my gift on the ice!

To be fair, however, I was surprised throughout the entire event: my expectations did not match reality at all, especially in terms of speed across the ice. I really wish I had arrived earlier in the day to calibrate myself with the Pairs event because the only men that I perceived as skating as fast as they do in the videos was Torgashev. (But again, I think this is from inexperience.)

I absolutely loved Jimmy Ma's performance though, and I was sitting with a lot of, err, older folks behind the tech panel and they were def not as supportive I probably embarrassed myself

 

[topaz emerald]

just watched Nathan's sp. I've been rooting for Nathan...but what happened to his classic looking outfit? This new costume is dreadful looking. Is this really Vera Wang's doing? What was she thinking? What the heck was he thinking? He looks like a cross between a priest with the white stripe down his front body and Tron https://i2.wp.com/clothesonfilm.com...-full_Image-Credit-Disney-Enterprises-Inc.jpg

and what happened to his hair with the curls in front? I'm disappointed in his overall look, lol. I hope he changes it. Am I the only one that hates it?

 

[xeyra]

I watched the last two groups half asleep so it's all still kinda groggy but some quick thoughts:
- Adam had the skate of the night for me. His sass is amazing. Grant was a close second.
- Nathan needs his curls and black shirt back for this SP. It was so much more aesthetically matching to the song itself. The advantage of the Vera Wang 'costume' is that it finally covers the poor guy's sweat stains but that's the only positive. He's had better performances of this SP before but he's a fighter and this program is really great for him. Hope he feels better for the FS
- Vincent is still in the race but I wonder about USFSA's choice between him and Jason. Jason has more clout but lower TES potential (especially now his 3A is so unstable) and Vincent a lot more TES potential but with the caveat of it being dependent on whether he can actually rotate all that potential, while not having the international PCS to make up for it. Given the PCS and scoring here, they're letting both fight it out in the FS.
- Jason's and Adam's spins are
- Nationals PCS are a hoot no matter the country, but GOE are getting really wild too.

 

[TontoK]

lol @ Johnny for calling out Jason's UR but then when re-viewing Nathan he was like 'oh, that was a ..... tight landing but under a quarter turn, so no UR' when it was just as UR as Jason's jump....

I'm kind of so sick of this 'Nathan is the greatest' theme, when he had a UR and a step out in the SP, that I don't even get annoyed anymore... I'm just baffled as how an SP with an UR and step out can count as a great skate, especially since he is actually capable of doing it better ....??

And I just can't with Vincent's jumps, half of them are regularly UR AND he has some pre-rotation on them (though not as much as Shoma).

Even though I'm not really a fan of Max's skating, he had the cleanest quads in terms of rotation today. 4toe and 4sal may have been two-footed and stepped out, but he didn't UR them and he didn't pre-rotate them.

Adam was nice though and I'm glad he sticked to what he can do

Did Jason fall out of grace with Johnny and Tara? They criticized him for not having a quad to rely on, but then brought Grant and Adam as an example of skaters having a quad, lollolol. I'd argue, that both Grant and Adam are not more consistent with their quads then Jason (maybe Grant a little bit more, but Adam definitely doesn't really have that 4lutz... he may land it one time out of 50 tries)

I think Jason has found himself in the same boat as Ashley Wagner. I get the feel that Johnny and Tara want them both off the team because they won't be able to compete technically at the Olympics.

This puts me in a major philosophical crunch, because I don't like Johnny and Tara very much, but I also hope they're right.

 

[TontoK]

just watched Nathan's sp. I've been rooting for Nathan...but what happened to his classic looking outfit? This new costume is dreadful looking. Is this really Vera Wang's doing? What was she thinking? What the heck was he thinking? He looks like a cross between a priest with the white stripe down his front body and Tron https://i2.wp.com/clothesonfilm.com...-full_Image-Credit-Disney-Enterprises-Inc.jpg

and what happened to his hair with the curls in front? I'm disappointed in his overall look, lol. I hope he changes it. Am I the only one that hates it?

It's just you. Everyone else is gaga over it!

Just kidding - pages of complaints. I don't particularly care one way or the other.

 

[xeyra]

I wish Nathan's costume was more like Tron's and actually glowed. Now that would have been fantastic. Probably not for this program in particular but fantastic nonetheless.

Edit: On the other hand, that type of tighter pants makes his legs look great.

 

[TontoK]

I was in the arena, and a competition virgin at that. I heard nothing about Nathan being ill beforehand, just his jump issues during practice, and even I could see that there wasn't the same commitment on the choreography. I have watched his SP probably dozens of times from the other events, so I had really high expectations and was quite distressed that he might have been injured. Didn't stop me from tossing my gift on the ice!

To be fair, however, I was surprised throughout the entire event: my expectations did not match reality at all, especially in terms of speed across the ice. I really wish I had arrived earlier in the day to calibrate myself with the Pairs event because the only men that I perceived as skating as fast as they do in the videos was Torgashev. (But again, I think this is from inexperience.)

I absolutely loved Jimmy Ma's performance though, and I was sitting with a lot of, err, older folks behind the tech panel and they were def not as supportive I probably embarrassed myself

I am so jealous! You've got to give us a more detailed report on your experiences, even if they have to be written after the event. For now, enjoy yourself! You didn't embarrass yourself, of Johnny and Tara would have called you out on live TV - and they didn't!

Did you get to see any prior champions in the arena? They showed quite a few on television. I'd love to meet Dick Button.

 

[Tavi...]

If you watch the NBC link they slow down the replay. If you were picturing the same clock, and the toe pick at 6 o’clock ideally, where he landed, his toe pick was aimed at 10 o’clock, plus he was 2 footed.

Actually, the real reason is just that a lot of people like to criticize Jason.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I think Jason has found himself in the same boat as Ashley Wagner. I get the feel that Johnny and Tara want them both off the team because they won't be able to compete technically at the Olympics.

This puts me in a major philosophical crunch, because I don't like Johnny and Tara very much, but I also hope they're right.

This is a really good point.

However, in Jason's case, there are US men who can compete technically much better than him... whereas in Ashley's case, other than Bradie none of the US ladies are technically reliable at this point and they will all likely be flayed by the international tech panels so it makes sense to send their most PCS-friendly skater (but Ashley is clearly in some US Nats twilight zone where she's now on par with Bradie and way under Karen - even with a similar error). There is currently no US lady who has both technical and PCS internationally, so Ashley is more in the mix, whereas in Jason's case his inability to do a quad and his struggle with even a 3A makes him a less obvious choice compared to the US quadsters... I'm torn between him and Hochstein after that SP, to be honest.

So many men landed nice 3As, and Johnny, while scathing, was right -- it's so unfair to the guys who land these jumps to have someone not have them called because of rep.

In both cases, I think the Olympics would be remiss without them, since they each bring a fire and performance quality to the competition that distinguishes them from their competitors whereas some of the other skaters in the running are a bit more generic and we'll see similar skaters like them at the Olympics (just my opinion).

 

[Eclair]

I think Jason has found himself in the same boat as Ashley Wagner. I get the feel that Johnny and Tara want them both off the team because they won't be able to compete technically at the Olympics.

This puts me in a major philosophical crunch, because I don't like Johnny and Tara very much, but I also hope they're right.

well if we're talking about competing technically at the Olympics: neither does Adam, nor does Vincent with his UR jumps (if they are called, which they are at the moment) nor does Grant.

And Adam is very good at projecting and giving a performance (a quality I love) but his SS are not that good. Jason lost his consistency this season and even though I like his skating I don't really care if he makes it or not as long as they are all judged fairly. Which for me means, that if Johnny is criticizing Jason for not having a quad, he shouldn't exactly take Adam as an example for someone who does. Same story with Jason's UR. If Johnny thinks his Axel was UR, then he should have called out Nathan's uncalled UR, too (and judging by the pause when looking for the right words, Johnny knew Nathan's jump was UR, but just didn't want to call it out).

I hope Ashley can bring the performance to her FS because I enjoy her performing a story a lot. Between Ashley, Mirai and Karen it's the same as between Jason, Vincent and Adam. One has real SS, but is not consistent (Karen), one has UR (Mirai - which was not called in the SP) and one has the performance, but not the SS (Ashley, although her jumps are looking worse than Adam's).

 

[WeirwoodTreeHugger]

After a month or two of lurking I finally popped out of hiding to thank you all for introducing me to Gracie Gold's twitter. I wasn't a big fan of hers in the past, but now I am. She's hilarious! The weirdest things cause people to delurk

Anyway, I'm thrilled that Adam did such a great job tonight. It's a shame some people are being a little hard on Nathan though. It's quite a feat to anything that well sick!

I might show back up again to ask some possibly stupid questions. I've been a fan since the early '90s but have never been involved with the sport and the NBC commentators are useless for anything other than the basics. I've already learned more about the technical aspects lurking here for a handful of weeks than watching NBC for almost 30 years.

 

[TCAngel18]

Actually, the real reason is just that a lot of people like to criticize Jason.

Actually not.

I brought up factual evidence. Blade placement on the video upon landing, based upon actual rules.

I could have brought up total BV, and the fact that he is quad-less, as a means to denigrate Jason, but I didnt. I think his LP is exquisite, one of the best programs I have seen in my years of watching FS. But that’s not what this is about.

I am commenting based upon the actual program that Jason Brown put on the ice in San Jose. I am responding to the newbie who asked the people who watch Figure skating often enough to know the actual rules of Figure skating to explain to him/her a technical question of why some people in here were in an uproar about the lenient caller. They mentioned a clock face in their questioning. I used a clock face in my response, based upon the viewpoint of NBC’s camera.

That is all.

 

[TontoK]

This is a really good point.

However, in Jason's case, there are US men who can compete technically much better than him... whereas in Ashley's case, other than Bradie none of the US ladies are technically reliable at this point and they will all likely be flayed by the international tech panels so it makes sense to send their most PCS-friendly skater (but Ashley is clearly in some US Nats twilight zone where she's now on par with Bradie and way under Karen - even with a similar error). There is currently no US lady who has both technical and PCS internationally, so Ashley is more in the mix, whereas in Jason's case his inability to do a quad and his struggle with even a 3A makes him a less obvious choice compared to the US quadsters... I'm torn between him and Hochstein after that SP, to be honest.

So many men landed nice 3As, and Johnny, while scathing, was right -- it's so unfair to the guys who land these jumps to have someone not have them called because of rep.

In both cases, I think the Olympics would be remiss without them, since they each bring a fire and performance quality to the competition that distinguishes them from their competitors whereas some of the other skaters in the running are a bit more generic and we'll see similar skaters like them at the Olympics (just my opinion).

I can appreciate your point of view. And I don't disagree with much of what you've written.

I guess for me it boils down to this belief of mine: Ashley and Jason are the past, not the future. They had their days in the sun, but they've underwhelmed for a few years and I don't see a lot of improvements just around the corner. And hot new better, younger, more promising talents are on the horizon. I admit this isn't strictly true for a skater like Mirai, but it's my general opinion.

It's just the way of sport. Eventually champions are pushed aside.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

OMG the flower kids dabbing and the people jamming in the background at 3:10 during Ma's skate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1HpB2nnJkQ#t=3m10s

 

[TontoK]

After a month or two of lurking I finally popped out of hiding to thank you all for introducing me to Gracie Gold's twitter. I wasn't a big fan of hers in the past, but now I am. She's hilarious! The weirdest things cause people to delurk

Anyway, I'm thrilled that Adam did such a great job tonight. It's a shame some people are being a little hard on Nathan though. It's quite a feat to anything that well sick!

I might show back up again to ask some possibly stupid questions. I've been a fan since the early '90s but have never been involved with the sport and the NBC commentators are useless for anything other than the basics. I've already learned more about the technical aspects lurking here for a handful of weeks than watching NBC for almost 30 years.

OK, now you've broken the ice, and there's no excuse for not contributing on a regular basis! I've been watching for as long as you have, and I promise there are more of us around here than these young whipper-snappers! You won't be lonely, and interacting with them helps keep me young.

And there are no stupid questions from people who love this sport. Nobody is going to cyber-shame you!

 

[Skater Boy]

His name is Adam Rippon, and he didn't come to play, this queen came to SLAY!!!

Are you talking about the queen as in Ashley? I am confused. Rippon has made comments and he wants to make the Olympic team but I don't know what the reference is to this queen - I know he is good friends with Ashley.

 

[penniavaswen]

OMG the flower kids dabbing and the people jamming in the background at 3:10 during Ma's skate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1HpB2nnJkQ#t=3m10s

The flower girls (and boy) were just adorable throughout the whole event. They were so engaged when the skater was clean in their corner, and they were very firmly on Jimmy's side.

 

[Skater Boy]

Unfortunately, they can, and do. Maybe not a tremendous effect, but figure skating is a combination of art and sport. Yes, You need to have the jumps and the skating skills. If presentation and costuming and haircuts and music didn’t matter, Figure skating would just be like the compulsory exercises in Gymnastics. Everyone would wear the same thing, and perform the same thing.

Nathan’s previous cut cast an air of rogueishness (totes not a word), a bravura, if you will. This new haircut makes him seem younger, which compared to the men he is competing against, may put him at a disadvantage subconsciously with some judges, when it comes to marking PCS.

I think the main problem is that costume. Vera Wang really did a disservice. I wonder did she have no real concept? I have no idea how this fits the music. Honestly looks like his practice gear and not even nice gear. I know simplicity can look divine and say a lot but this simply says I don't care.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I can appreciate your point of view. And I don't disagree with much of what you've written.

I guess for me it boils down to this belief of mine: Ashley and Jason are the past, not the future. They had their days in the sun, but they've underwhelmed for a few years and I don't see a lot of improvements just around the corner. And hot new better, younger, more promising talents are on the horizon. I admit this isn't strictly true for a skater like Mirai, but it's my general opinion.

It's just the way of sport. Eventually champions are pushed aside.

Totally agree that Jason and Ashley have had their heyday in previous years. I still think Jason has potential but with lack of technical strides he won't reach the utmost echelon of the sport. But he's still a pleasure to watch and I think his skating is important for others to see, even if it isn't the most competitive. There are more promising talent who can push out Ashley, but I still think artistically and maturity wise she is one of the best in the world and she sells the heck out of her program. Both are talented overall skaters, even if they have faded in the past few seasons a bit.

The thing is, if other promising skaters (like Karen/Mariah and Vincent/Grant) had moved beyond said horizon this season, I could understand phasing out Ashley/Jason for their lack of technical ability. But it hasn't quite happened yet, IMO. Mirai and Adam have made cases though for pushing them down a notch.

I definitely think Ashley is seeing the twilight of her career though - based on Nationals so far, there's is a wave of US novice/junior talent, and kudos to her for maintaining her tech ability at this age, but the game looks like it's about to change. She could still be like a Carolina though, and no matter who pops up, there will only be one Ashley Wagner. Same with Jason - even if his technical ability is obsolete in a multi-quad era, there will be nobody who can skate like he does for a very long time if ever.

 

[topaz emerald]

just watched Jason's program, I hated it. He's better than this Alexander Hamilton music