2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[thatbeatingheart]

You calling that “coping with disappointment” and not for what is actually was is clearly very unbiased.
Yeah, right „evidence“... anyways, I don’t really want to back to the old drama, just saying, some people here were especially creative when creating their conspiracy theories.

Btw, I actually defended her, saying, I can understand where she came from (even made an analogy, that it’s like when your ex does something, and you think it was about you) and that she probably acted on an impulse without thinking twice, but that was not making it right nevertheless.
And I did the same thing here btw, I tried to explain why I think Daniil didn’t think it was a big deal, but that’s not making it right anyways.

Sorry for having a different perception and not seeing "what it actually was" but we do have the same opinion on the matter so I'm not sure what we're even trying to discuss here.

I guess I'm just super tired of this Evgenia vs. Alina thing, whenever Evgenia does something questionable it's "but Alina also did this and that!!" and whenever Alina does something questionable it's "but Evgenia also did this and that!!". There's definitely people to blame on both sides but it's ridiculous what's going on this fandom, I haven't seen anything like this in any fandom I've been in before and before I entered the FS fandom I thought I've seen it all.

My (hopefully) final words on the stealing-matter: I'm absolutely not blaming Alina but Daniil, whichever reason he had behind acting like he did. It does make one wonder whether he has done something like this before and if it's something other choreographers have also done. But that's a topic for another thread.

 

[Mathman]

The difference is that if you copy from something widely known among the general public, they already know you're taking inspiration from there. ...

When the original piece is famous enough, you don't bother to give credit because everyone already knows where it's from and will credit the original artist.

That is an interesting point. One problem is, choreographers hardly ever get any credit or personal publicity with the general public anyway.

If a skater did a routine to Michael Jackson's Thriller and broke into the Zombie dance, everyone would know what video it's from. But how many people know who choreographed it. (Michael Peters).

 

[kixxxra]

Sorry for having a different perception and not seeing "what it actually was" but we do have the same opinion on the matter so I'm not sure what we're even trying to discuss here. [emoji23]

I guess I'm just super tired of this Evgenia vs. Alina thing, whenever Evgenia does something questionable it's "but Alina also did this and that!!" and whenever Alina does something questionable it's "but Evgenia also did this and that!!". There's definitely people to blame on both sides but it's ridiculous what's going on this fandom, I haven't seen anything like this in any fandom I've been in before and before I entered the FS fandom I thought I've seen it all.

My (hopefully) final words on the stealing-matter: I'm absolutely not blaming Alina but Daniil, whichever reason he had behind acting like he did. It does make one wonder whether he has done something like this before and if it's something other choreographers have also done. But that's a topic for another thread.

[emoji122]

 

[Fluture]

I don‘t know if this has been posted yet but Jojo Gomez has edited her post to make it clear that she‘s not blaming Alina and people should stop hating on her. I don‘t know when she did it but I think it‘s good.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BzBl2OghM6C/?igshid=cpvlu3a1gsiw

 

[Scott512]

When someone skating to kpop on the ice is fine ... Why is just this consider stolen?

That is a very interesting and intriguing question.

Do figure skaters pay the creators of the music they are skating to be able to skate to said music? And if the figure skater cannot afford to pay that does the Federation? I would think not. But this topic has gotten me thinking about things I've never thought about before.

In retrospect looking back at yesterday's incident I think everyone here posting understands that Danil did something wrong. But he clearly apologized to Jojo publicly. And yes it's likely he only apologize to her because he got caught using her choreography. Danils degree of guilt is different for everyone here but everyone agrees he did something wrong. He publicly apologized to Jojo and that should be the end of it. Right?

 

[Arbitrary]

I don‘t know if this has been posted yet but Jojo Gomez has edited her post to make it clear that she‘s not blaming Alina and people should stop hating on her. I don‘t know when she did it but I think it‘s good.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BzBl2OghM6C/?igshid=cpvlu3a1gsiw

That's enough to stop blaming her and only burn her at stake instead.
Tonya did nothing wrong too. But the mob already found her target.

 

[Scott512]

I don‘t know if this has been posted yet but Jojo Gomez has edited her post to make it clear that she‘s not blaming Alina and people should stop hating on her. I don‘t know when she did it but I think it‘s good.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BzBl2OghM6C/?igshid=cpvlu3a1gsiw

Good for Alina. Not so good for Danil. Ouch. Jojo really got him by the nuts and won't let go. Lol. I guess his public apology to her was not enough.

I think bringing JoJo to Japan so she can work with Alina would be even more emasculating for Danil than JoJo pounding him publicly is even after he apologized publicly. But thanks to Jojo for taking Alina off the hook publicly. It is an unfortunate situation.

For those of us who adore Alina and like her team we all know Danil did something wrong here. There is no cover-up going on.

 

[flanker]

That is a very interesting and intriguing question.

Do figure skaters pay the creators of the music they are skating to be able to skate to said music? And if the figure skater cannot afford to pay that does the Federation? I would think not. But this topic has gotten me thinking about things I've never thought about before.

In retrospect looking back at yesterday's incident I think everyone here posting understands that Danil did something wrong. But he clearly apologized to Jojo publicly. And yes it's likely he only apologize to her because he got caught using her choreography. Danils degree of guilt is different for everyone here but everyone agrees he did something wrong. He publicly apologized to Jojo and that should be the end of it. Right?

I bet this is solved through the copyright collective agencies. Never paid attention to how this works in figure skating but from my law experience with similar matters it is done this way. Those who use some piece of art on regular basis for their activities pass the list of used art to such agency and pay a fee from which the rights owners are rewarded. I bet it is centralized in some way and it goes through ISU, like skaters send the list to ISU and ISU deals with copyright agencies (or on national level with national skating fed). Or, that is how I would arrange it as a lawyer

 

[nussnacker]

I‘m kinda disappointed in how Daniil handled this issue.
He needs to make it up for that choreographer and make her satisfied.
I think he doesn’t understand that he’s a part of the team, if he does something wrong, it’s not only him that will get a blow, it’s Eteri and Dudakov as well, who will suffer, as well as skaters themselves, even if they had nothing to do with this.

 

[nussnacker]

Sorry for having a different perception and not seeing "what it actually was" but we do have the same opinion on the matter so I'm not sure what we're even trying to discuss here.

If you’re able to see this as „your perception“, then maybe it’s worth it to stop calling people out for having „their own perceptions“ of this issue, and not blaming them for some „bias“?

Btw, the right word for that would be „being petty“, not „coping with trauma“.

 

[Fluture]

He publicly apologized to Jojo and that should be the end of it. Right?

It will be interesting to see what they‘re going to do now. Keep the ex but with Jojo Gomez‘s permission? Or choreograph something entirely new to Bad Guy? Personally, I wish for the latter to be the case. I wasn‘t a fan of the choreography to begin with and even seeing it now where it came from and where it was supposed to be performed at (on the dancefloor, not the ice), I‘m not sold on it. I think Daniil could do something better of his own that would actually fit Alina.

 

[madison]

I‘m kinda disappointed in how Daniil handled this issue.
He needs to make it up for that choreographer and make her satisfied.
I think he doesn’t understand that he’s a part of the team, if he does something wrong, it’s not only him that will get a blow, it’s Eteri and Dudakov as well, who will suffer, as well as skaters themselves, even if they had nothing to do with this.

Exactly, I feel sorry for Dudakov. He is always so professional and hard working.
I hope this is the last mistake from Daniil's part.
I think now everyone sees Eteri's huge contribution in the choreography of their skaters.
Daniil was let some days alone to put a Gala program (not even a competitive one), and he screw everything up.

 

[flanker]

Exactly, I feel sorry for Dudakov. He is always so professional and hard working.
I hope this is the last mistake from Daniil's part.
I think now everyone sees Eteri's huge contribution in the choreography of their skaters.
Daniil was let some days alone to put a Gala program (not even a competitive one), and he screw everything up.

Ansd some people wonder why some of us are not in their "concerned team"...

 

[Fluture]

I‘m kinda disappointed in how Daniil handled this issue.
He needs to make it up for that choreographer and make her satisfied.
I think he doesn’t understand that he’s a part of the team, if he does something wrong, it’s not only him that will get a blow, it’s Eteri and Dudakov as well, who will suffer, as well as skaters themselves, even if they had nothing to do with this.

Well, Daniil posted a picture of him and his cat on his instagram story with the hashtag “peace to everyone“, so it looks like for him the issue is solved.... For the sake of the whole team I hope Jojo lets it go now and is satisfied if Daniil choreographs a new program to Bad Guy and doesn‘t use hers anymore.

 

[Scott512]

It will be interesting to see what they‘re going to do now. Keep the ex but with Jojo Gomez‘s permission? Or choreograph something entirely new to Bad Guy? Personally, I wish for the latter to be the case. I wasn‘t a fan of the choreography to begin with and even seeing it now where it came from and where it was supposed to be performed at (on the dancefloor, not the ice), I‘m not sold on it. I think Daniil could do something better of his own that would actually fit Alina.

I would be okay either way but it would be kind of cool to have JoJo involved and then compensate her for her choreography as long as they keep her choreography. Then they can all end up being friends. This can have a happy ending to it. It may not be a Lena's call or Danils call. The boss may take this situation over and decide.

 

[Scott512]

This will make Alina angry at Jojo and possibly at the choreography. It's hard for me to explain logic, but it's true. :noshake:

But Eteri will probably be unhappy with Daniel because of the scandal.

Yes probably.

 

[Reddi]

Ah right, and clearly you're not at all biased.

Daniil needs a better understanding of Fair Use that's for sure (for his own good first of all). Also, a better understanding of a proper, actual apology wouldn't hurt either.
BUT.
It's is not a sign of deep bias to point out that this entire mess attracted a whole crowd of fire-spitters who contributed absolutely nothing to the conflict resolution, because they, frankly, couldn't care less and just eagerly jumped on the opportunity to take a piss at their "problematic unfave". Basically, I've seen this simple at its core dispute been derailed in dozen of different directions by the time I went sleeping (1 am Russia).
As for now, Jojo kinda accepted Daniil's kinda-apology and the whole controversy is resolved. More or less. Alas, The Concern Party in Jojo's insta is continuing partying like there's no tomorrow.

 

[Fluture]

I would be okay either way but it would be kind of cool to have JoJo involved and then compensate her for her choreography as long as they keep her choreography. Then they can all end up being friends. This can have a happy ending to it. It may not be a Lena's call or Danils call. The boss may take this situation over and decide.

Well, it surely would be better for Daniil‘s reputation if he just paid Jojo for her work and Alina would be able to use the program again. It would also save the time they‘d need to choreograph another exhibition program. I know these kind of programs are done more quickly than normal competitive ones but it‘s still the middle of the off-season and they are probably busy as it is. I don‘t know if realistically there can be a fairytale ending of them all being friends, but it would indeed be kind of cool if this got solved and they‘d work together in the future.

I was just selfishly hoping Daniil would make something unique and new because I don‘t like the way Jojo‘s choreography looks on the ice and am no fan of it in general. So, I think I‘d like his own work more than the one he took from someone else.

 

[Payako]

Okay I wanted this to end but looks like it's not going to.Imo people should stop defending Danil.I was shocked how people react to this.Even how the law is,One thing I know for sure is copying is just wrong.If this was not revealed,he wouldn't apologize for this.Seriously He is a thief.Why are you defending a thief?I could at least tolerate if other people did this.But Danil is a choreographer who knows how hard work is and he is doing for many students.How could he do this as a choreographer?Before this there was a fight.He should be more careful to choreograph this than usual.
I doubt there would be more copied choreography as he even did this in such situation.If people find out another copied choreography,he should be fired.

 

[Scott512]

It’s always a beautiful moment when we get to see posters’ true colours. Imagine the backlash if this was our girl Evgenia, or someone like Bradie. You all wouldn’t be defending them and reaching for it. I think those defending Daniil or Alina need to drop it. He said she saw the choreo in his post. He knew what he was doing, she agreed to be the ‘muse’. Let it go. I’m sure no one is happy to be copied and you all should 100% not be defending the actions of your faves for terrible decisions.

Speaking of Zhenya What do you think are her chances of making the Grand Prix final next season? I would say they're 50/50 right now. Such competition out there. Incredible. I certainly expect her to go into next season in much better form compared to last season. And if Evgenia is at good health conditions I would go over 50%.

This is a chance to change the topic and make this a sane Sunday!