2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[zounger]

(because she’s much better in this aspect than both Alina and Kaori, imo) and she stays clean.

I don't see the much better. She may be better is some aspects of skating skills and not even the entire SS part of PCS.

 

[zounger]

They didn‘t hold Zhenya, Alina or Rika back when they made their debut...

I didn't reply about Alina and Rika

 

[nussnacker]

I'd love to see her in the GPF [I'd love to see all of them in the GPF though ]

Me too, so many are actually very very deserving of making it into GPF.

 

[Fluture]

I don't see the much better. She may be better is some aspects of skating skills and not even the entire SS part of PCS.

She has better skating skills, better posture, is more sophisticated, better at interpreting the music, performing... the only part I could see Alina getting better scores in is transitions. Because she has more and truly the most difficult ones. Alina will beat her on the technical side because Alyona‘s program with a 3F+3T and 3S+3T and 3Lz+2T+2T cannot be compared to Alina‘s, with two lutzes and flips as well as the loop combo. But if both are clean, I‘d say they would be fairly even.

I didn't reply about Alina and Rika

You said you think the judges will hold 3A back when they make their debut. I responded that I don‘t think so because the total opposite happened in the past and gave Rika, Alina and Zhenya as examples.

 

[Lechat]

Yes Zhenya got very tough Grand Prix assignments. Like you said she has to be in good form and a lot of it will depend on her competitors and how clean they are or are not. Because as we know programs with quads and triple axels is very hard and it's hard to stay clean doing quads and triple axels.

It's going to be the most highly-anticipated grand preseason for the ladies I can ever remember. The excitement will be palpable whatever that means.

She will face sasha twice at skate Canada and Rostelecom. I don’t know if she can do quad or 3A but yeah next saison will be tough as hell

 

[zounger]

She has better skating skills, better posture, is more sophisticated, better at interpreting the music, performing... the only part I could see Alina getting better scores in is transitions. Because she has more and truly the most difficult ones. Alina will beat her on the technical side because Alyona‘s program with a 3F+3T and 3S+3T and 3Lz+2T+2T cannot be compared to Alina‘s, with two lutzes and flips as well as the loop combo. But if both are clean, I‘d say they would be fairly even.

You said you think the judges will hold 3A back when they make their debut. I responded that I don‘t think so because the total opposite happened in the past and gave Rika, Alina and Zhenya as examples.

You used Kaori too. Where is Kaori lacking compared to Alena? I don't agree with what you said anyway. As for the second part, every season is different.

 

[lanceupper1114]

He “did something wrong” but JoJo “got him by the nuts”? She’s “emasculating” him? Do you not understand how wrong it is to characterize what happened this way?

At this point I think it’s just best to move on and let the conversation flow to another topic since it’s hopeless. As I said earlier, the fanaticism is too extreme and deeply engrained to overcome. Jojo is a villainous emasculating ball-buster that’s sullying the altar at which some worship, so just let the cult activities resume and let it be.

 

[Vandevska]

https://www.instagram.com/p/BzDZ92yoD_h/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet :luv17:

 

[Fluture]

You used Kaori too. Where is Kaori lacking compared to Alena? I don't agree with what you said anyway. As for the second part, every season is different.

You don‘t have to agree, that‘s literally what discussions are for, you know? Sharing opinions and talking about them.

Kaori‘s skating skills are superb, I wouldn‘t say she‘s worse than Alina there, not at all. She has better flow and deeper edges even. But her upper body movement can sometimes look a bit awkward, she‘s not as much of a natural performer as Alyona is and not as musical either. She did improve a lot from last season to this, though, so let‘s see how she does next year. Also, I personally think that Alyona has better transitions. So, in my opinion the only part of PCS that Kaori could beat Alyona in is skating skills, the rest I‘d put the latter ahead.

As for every season being different... yeah, sure. Everything can happen. But considering how often we have seen that new seniors are not held back in PCS if they perform consistently or have absurdly high TES, on a basis of many years, I‘d say it‘s pretty unlikely that they start holding back the 3A now, just because. It‘s possible, of course. Still...

 

[Fluture]

https://www.instagram.com/p/BzDZ92yoD_h/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet :luv17:

How cute! Happy birthday Sasha!

 

[nussnacker]

At this point I think it’s just best to move on and let the conversation flow to another topic since it’s hopeless. As I said earlier, the fanaticism is too extreme and deeply engrained to overcome. Jojo is a villainous emasculating ball-buster that’s sullying the altar at which some worship, so just let the cult activities resume and let it be.

what this has to do with any sort of 'fanatism'?
Jojo had every right to be outraged, I'm not going to say she shouldn't have done it, but it seems like people forget that it's the internet we're dealing with these days, and it includes minors and some very unstable people literally going after other people with obsession.

I'm kind of over it when people pour as much hate as possible and crucify people online for whatever they do, and I don't think it's the right way of dealing with conflicts.
I'm never going to go on anyone's page and write anything but positive for them personally, even if they do something bad or stupid.
It's like with that James Charles-Tati drama (or any online beauty guru drama for that matter), did it really have to be that dramatic with that boy receiving that sort of backlash, hate and death threats?
Did Mariah and her family really have to go through that hell for some minor misunderstandings?

People underestimate the power of words and what it can do to people on the receiving end, some like Alina will suffer. If Daniil can handle this hate, will it go unnoticed for Alina? Maybe Jojo should've thought a little that she might put the kid on the receiving end of the backlash as well. (and Daniil should've thought about it too)
If she wanted to punish Daniil exclusively, she could've maybe found another way of doing so =/

I'm all for people protecting what belongs to them, I think sometimes it should be considered, whether there are children involved in this and how it may affect them.
At the end of the day, this culture of going after people online and doing as much as possible to publicly humiliate them and punish them can sometimes go out of hand.

 

[zounger]

You don‘t have to agree, that‘s literally what discussions are for, you know? Sharing opinions and talking about them.

Yes, I know and thats exactly what I did. I omit the obvious stuff, there is no reason to make my post an essay.

 

[lanceupper1114]

what this has to do with any sort of 'fanatism'?
Jojo had every right to be outraged, I'm not going to say she shouldn't have done it, but it seems like people forget that it's the internet we're dealing with these days, and it includes minors and some very unstable people literally going after other people with obsession.

I'm kind of over it when people pour as much hate as possible and crucify people online for whatever they do, and I don't think it's the right way of dealing with conflicts.
I'm never going to go on anyone's page and write anything but positive for them personally, even if they do something bad or stupid.
It's like with that James Charles-Tati drama (or any online beauty guru drama for that matter), did it really have to be that dramatic with that boy receiving that sort of backlash, hate and death threats?
Did Mariah and her family really have to go through that hell for some minor misunderstandings?

People underestimate the power of words and what it can do to people on the receiving end, some like Alina will suffer. If Daniil can handle this hate, will it go unnoticed for Alina? Maybe Jojo should've thought a little that she might put the kid on the receiving end of the backlash as well.
If she wanted to punish Daniil exclusively, she could've maybe found another way of doing so =/

I'm all for people protecting what belongs to them, I think sometimes it should be considered, whether there are children involved in this and how it may affect them.
At the end of the day, this culture of going after people online and doing as much as possible to publicly humiliate them and punish them can sometimes go out of hand.

I was saying its absurd for people to characterize Jojo as a emasculating villain, and that fanaticism is what leads people to characterize her as such. It was sarcasm. As you said, it’s people going after people with obsession, which is what I was saying. I was defending Jojo, not crucifying her.

 

[Fluture]

Yes, I know and thats exactly what I did. I omit the obvious stuff, there is no reason to make my post an essay.

Okay then.

 

[Scott512]

what this has to do with any sort of 'fanatism'?
Jojo had every right to be outraged, I'm not going to say she shouldn't have done it, but it seems like people forget that it's the internet we're dealing with these days, and it includes minors and some very unstable people literally going after other people with obsession.

I'm kind of over it when people pour as much hate as possible and crucify people online for whatever they do, and I don't think it's the right way of dealing with conflicts.
I'm never going to go on anyone's page and write anything but positive for them personally, even if they do something bad or stupid.
It's like with that James Charles-Tati drama (or any online beauty guru drama for that matter), did it really have to be that dramatic with that boy receiving that sort of backlash, hate and death threats?
Did Mariah and her family really have to go through that hell for some minor misunderstandings?

People underestimate the power of words and what it can do to people on the receiving end, some like Alina will suffer. If Daniil can handle this hate, will it go unnoticed for Alina? Maybe Jojo should've thought a little that she might put the kid on the receiving end of the backlash as well. (and Daniil should've thought about it too)
If she wanted to punish Daniil exclusively, she could've maybe found another way of doing so =/

I'm all for people protecting what belongs to them, I think sometimes it should be considered, whether there are children involved in this and how it may affect them.
At the end of the day, this culture of going after people online and doing as much as possible to publicly humiliate them and punish them can sometimes go out of hand.

Great in-depth post thank you. Everyone agrees what Daniel did was wrong and he apologized for it . But at this point that discussion is like a cat chasing its tail which is why I changed the subject to the Grand Prix series and what will happen next season with Zhenya and whether she will make the Grand Prix final we're not and all of a sudden this thread is rolling again with figure skating talk and exciting possibilities for all our favorites next season.

 

[karina17]

Between the Bad Guy music drama happening on Alina's birthday and the Bad Guy choreo drama happening on Sasha's birthday, I propose the theory that Bad Guy really hates the Tutberidze girls' birthdays.

 

[Mathman]

A bit off-topic but wasn‘t the GPF originally with 8 skaters?

No, I don't think so.

I believe that the original idea of the Grand Prix Final was that the individual events already existed, so let's have a big wrap-up at the end pitting the winners of Skate America, Skate Canada, Nations Cup (Germany), NHK, and Trophee Lalique (France) in a big showdown of champions. But because an individual skater might win more than one event, they had to expand the field to include some silver medalists. (Michelle Kwan won Skate America, Skate Canada and Nations Cup that year, for instance.)

I think they aimed for 6 skaters in the final, but in those days (1995-96) there was no elaborate system of tie-breakers, so an extra skater might make it if two skaters tied for the 6th slot. (In the first "Championship Series Final" Olga Makarova and Maria Butyrskaya tied for the last spot, so there were seven ladies. There were 6 men. Pairs and dance were limited to four in the final.)

The next year the ISU secured the rights to the name "Grand Prix" and added the Cup of Russia. They expanded the pairs and dance to 6. (Ladies had only 5 that year due to a withdrawal by Laetitia Hubert.)

 

[esteticlove]

Well the question is will Eteris Angels dominate like they did in juniors right off the bat as seniors? That would be hard to believe but I guess it's possible. Will judges hold them back at all because they're just beginning their senior careers?

Honestly, I don't see how they'll be held back unless one of them bombs big time in a competition. When were Eteri's girls held back by the judges? I mean judges can't get low scores on programs that are maximized out. We've seen that with other Russian ladies but not with team Tuberidze. Also, I pretty much expect the 3A to dominate, if not like last junior season, then at least I have high hopes for Sasha and for Anna to some extent. Alena is also not to underestimate, she might not have the highest TES, but judges tend to give her big GOEs on her elements and she is a strong PCS contender, the strongest among the three of them.

Back in the time, Evgenia dominated in her last junior year and afterwards in her senior debute, we saw the same with Alina. So, I don't see it not happening with the 3A. I know that the competition now is tougher because we have Rika with 2x3a and presumably a quad? and also Tursynbaeva with 4S and maybe a 3A? but at the time, Evgenia was kind of on par with Osmond and than Zagitova with Еvgenia, and the new rising star always had the edge

 

[Fluture]

No, I don't think so.

I believe that the original idea of the Grand Prix Final was that the individual events already existed, so let's have a big wrap-up at the end pitting the winners of Skate America, Skate Canada, Nations Cup (Germany), NHK, and Trophee Lalique (France) in a big showdown of champions. But because an individual skater might win more than one event, they had to expand the field to include some silver medalists. (Michelle Kwan won Skate America, Skate Canada and Nations Cup that year, for instance.)

I think they aimed for 6 skaters in the final, but in those days (1995-96) there was no elaborate system of tie-breakers, so an extra skater might make it if two skaters tied for the 6th slot. (In the first "Championship Series Final" Olga Makarova and Maria Butyrskaya tied for the last spot, so there were seven ladies. There were 6 men. Pairs and dance were limited to four in the final.)

The next year the ISU secured the rights to the name "Grand Prix" and added the Cup of Russia. They expanded the pairs and dance to 6. (Ladies had only 5 that year due to a withdrawal by Laetitia Hubert.)

Oh, I‘m sorry, I didn‘t look at seniors but juniors and mixed them up.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008–09_Grand_Prix_of_Figure_Skating_Final

Because here for example it looks like they had 6 skaters in seniors but 8 in juniors. So, they had more skaters in juniors than they did for seniors? That seems weird, maybe I got something wrong here too.

But thanks for the short history lesson. It‘s always interesting to find out where these competitions come from and what the rules were back then.

 

[Tavi...]

what this has to do with any sort of 'fanatism'?
Jojo had every right to be outraged, I'm not going to say she shouldn't have done it, but it seems like people forget that it's the internet we're dealing with these days, and it includes minors and some very unstable people literally going after other people with obsession.

I'm kind of over it when people pour as much hate as possible and crucify people online for whatever they do, and I don't think it's the right way of dealing with conflicts.
I'm never going to go on anyone's page and write anything but positive for them personally, even if they do something bad or stupid.
It's like with that James Charles-Tati drama (or any online beauty guru drama for that matter), did it really have to be that dramatic with that boy receiving that sort of backlash, hate and death threats?
Did Mariah and her family really have to go through that hell for some minor misunderstandings?

People underestimate the power of words and what it can do to people on the receiving end, some like Alina will suffer. If Daniil can handle this hate, will it go unnoticed for Alina? Maybe Jojo should've thought a little that she might put the kid on the receiving end of the backlash as well. (and Daniil should've thought about it too)
If she wanted to punish Daniil exclusively, she could've maybe found another way of doing so =/

I'm all for people protecting what belongs to them, I think sometimes it should be considered, whether there are children involved in this and how it may affect them.
At the end of the day, this culture of going after people online and doing as much as possible to publicly humiliate them and punish them can sometimes go out of hand.

Look, I absolutely agree with you that it is wrong for people to trash others on the internet - whether they are skaters like Alina or not. But it was Daniil who created the problem, not JoJo. He was the one who should have stopped to consider the position he was putting Alina in. The comments is this thread placing the blame and responsibility for this situation on JoJo - a woman - for not being “nice” and “considerate” - instead of on Daniil - a man - are more than a little misogynistic.