2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating | Page 661 | Golden Skate

2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

Metis

Shepherdess of the Teal Deer
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 14, 2018
Speaking of the 3Lz-3L, what was going on with Anna's today, it was called clean but after someone mentioned it I went back and... the Lutz landing, on two feet? In a weird way

No, that’s just the mechanics of -3Lo combos. (If she’d two-footed the Lutz, she couldn’t have added the loop.) For a -Lo combo, instead of allowing the free leg to pass through and extend behind the skater on the landing of the first jump, the free leg must be kept in front of the landing leg. With the landing foot on a BOE, the skater immediately initiates the rotation for the loop by drawing the body in and lifting the free leg upward. If you watch the combination in slow motion, you can see that Shcherbakova lands with her legs in the distinctive X-position that signifies a loop takeoff but keeps her free leg forward and her upper body tense — she can’t relax the upper body on the landing because she has to take off for the loop as she lands the Lutz.

Loop combos are unforgiving and require that the landing of the first jump be reasonably clean. There’s much more leeway when adding a -T, as the free leg is pushed through, which gives the skater time to bring the body back into position in the event something went wrong on the first jump. As long as there isn’t a transfer of weight or steps beyond 2-3 3-turns on the landing, a skater can initiate the toe loop whenever they want, though obviously there’s a GOE reduction for loss of rhythm. For loop combos, you either pull into rotational position for the loop immediately upon landing or you forfeit the loop as the second jump in combination.
 

Lechat

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 26, 2018
Country
France
Rika popping (or falling) in the short program happened at almost every competition that season, I would hardly call that "lucking out". In fact, Rika didn't land all three triple axels at any competition that season. Alina won by delivering when the pressure was on. And who else bombed? Kaori had one pop. Satoko had some URs but never would've beaten that score anyways. Evgenia was strong. Elizabet landed a quad. It was a pretty strong competition if you ask me.

Yes it was a very good competition with strong contenders. Alina skated under pressure, she was the only senior who could win and she delivered. Rika I guess was even more pressured since she skated at home and everybody expected her to win after she beat Alina at GPF but she popped her short. Zhenia was like, I’m fed up to lose so I’ll kick some asses and Lizbet landed the first quad.

Next worlds will be even more stronger maybe a copy of GPF
 

Edwin

СделаноВХрустальном!
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 5, 2019
True, you have to score higher than 230/235 to have a chance to medal if you want to compete with them. Only 4 or 5 people can do it.

Those 4-5 people I presume are older skaters, now please strip them of any reputation bonus and asses their chances as objective as possible. I don't buy deep into 'performance', 'interpretation' and 'presentation' as these are difficult to objectify.
 

Mishaminion

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
No, that’s just the mechanics of -3Lo combos. (If she’d two-footed the Lutz, she couldn’t have added the loop.) For a -Lo combo, instead of allowing the free leg to pass through and extend behind the skater on the landing of the first jump, the free leg must be kept in front of the landing leg. With the landing foot on a BOE, the skater immediately initiates the rotation for the loop by drawing the body in and lifting the free leg upward. If you watch the combination in slow motion, you can see that Shcherbakova lands with her legs in the distinctive X-position that signifies a loop takeoff but keeps her free leg forward and her upper body tense — she can’t relax the upper body on the landing because she has to take off for the loop as she lands the Lutz.

Loop combos are unforgiving and require that the landing of the first jump be reasonably clean. There’s much more leeway when adding a -T, as the free leg is pushed through, which gives the skater time to bring the body back into position in the event something went wrong on the first jump. As long as there isn’t a transfer of weight or steps beyond 2-3 3-turns on the landing, a skater can initiate the toe loop whenever they want, though obviously there’s a GOE reduction for loss of rhythm. For loop combos, you either pull into rotational position for the loop immediately upon landing or you forfeit the loop as the second jump in combination.

Her free leg blade was on the ice already on landing the Lutz. I know how loop combos work, her free leg wasn't just in front, so too was her blade
 

cohen-esque

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 27, 2014
Her free leg blade was on the ice already on landing the Lutz. I know how loop combos work, her free leg wasn't just in front, so too was her blade
It could probably be called more of a “touchdown with free foot” than a twofoot— a bad twofoot would probably be too jarring for her to get up into the loop. But you could see (and hear) her free foot blade drag on the ice, and she bumped back a bit on her heel before the takeoff for the loop.
 

fabienne1996

Medalist
Joined
Nov 24, 2018
Country
Germany
Are you talking about how Med got to the podium? Still forgot +2 GOE for flutz.
Would it kill you to stop bringing zhenya into everything bad? We already know you and others do not like her , it's not as if you guys let us ever forget that in here, but literally no on was talking about her right now
 

VenusHalley

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 6, 2018
Are you talking about how Med got to the podium? Still forgot +2 GOE for flutz.

The whole scoring was mess. Sure, Alina deserved to win, but ignoring her URs and dousing her through and through in PCS kinda bittered that win.

This year seems to follow more stricter formula, so we will see how the top players will fare.
 

Mishaminion

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
It could probably be called more of a “touchdown with free foot” than a twofoot— a bad twofoot would probably be too jarring for her to get up into the loop. But you could see (and hear) her free foot blade drag on the ice, and she bumped back a bit on her heel before the takeoff for the loop.

Would this be something that would reduce GOE?
It reminds me of the free leg touchdowns Sasha Cohen often had, where she would land dragging her blade along the ice
 

icybear

Medalist
Joined
Mar 18, 2017
But will they luck out with competition where URs are uncalled while several competitors bomb at the same time?

Several competitors bombed? You mean just Rika. Elizabet, Evgenia, Kaori all got season's best in that competition and it's not like without their mistakes they could have challenged the gold.
 

lesnar001

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 19, 2005
The whole scoring was mess. Sure, Alina deserved to win, but ignoring her URs and dousing her through and through in PCS kinda bittered that win.

This year seems to follow more stricter formula, so we will see how the top players will fare.

How do you know they "ignored" her URs?
That's a real bold statement to make.
Maybe in their eyes she did not UR.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Would this be something that would reduce GOE?

It reminds me of the free leg touchdowns Sasha Cohen often had, where she would land dragging her blade along the ice

I think this sort of landing does count as a "jump error" for GOE purposes. Of couse a jump might have positive features that outweigh the negatives.

The expectation is -3 GOE for "landing on two feet." In practice, I would suppose that judges would take off a lesser amount for "brushing the ice." (?)

Back in the 6.0 days they were very scrupulous about making sure the jump was landed cleanly on the exit edge, before the jump was "ratified." (Although I never quite knew what a "ratified" jump meant under that system.) Michael Weiss was denied credit many times for his "quad Lutz" because of a slight two-foot of this type.
 
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Finley

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 19, 2014
The whole scoring was mess. Sure, Alina deserved to win, but ignoring her URs and dousing her through and through in PCS kinda bittered that win.

This year seems to follow more stricter formula, so we will see how the top players will fare.

For you maybe. Sweetest win ever for me. Especially after a season's worth of doubt from so many.

Best. Win. Ever.

She finally got to be the Olympic Champion in her own country. Her team got to truly celebrate. So many people shut up about so many things. So many others ate their words. I can't even imagine how it must have been for her family.

Even if she won again this year it could never be exactly like that again....

Off to watch YouTube videos!
 

Mishaminion

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
For you maybe. Sweetest win ever for me. Especially after a season's worth of doubt from so many.

Best. Win. Ever.

She finally got to be the Olympic Champion in her own country. Her team got to truly celebrate. So many people shut up about so many things. So many others ate their words. I can't even imagine how it must have been for her family.

Even if she won again this year it could never be exactly like that again....

Off to watch YouTube videos!

It was fabulous wasn't it? :biggrin:

She looked the doubters straight in the eye and basically said "Don't think I can do it? Well watch this!!!"

- - - Updated - - -

For you maybe. Sweetest win ever for me. Especially after a season's worth of doubt from so many.

Best. Win. Ever.

She finally got to be the Olympic Champion in her own country. Her team got to truly celebrate. So many people shut up about so many things. So many others ate their words. I can't even imagine how it must have been for her family.

Even if she won again this year it could never be exactly like that again....

Off to watch YouTube videos!

It was fabulous wasn't it? :biggrin:

She looked the doubters straight in the eye and basically said "Don't think I can do it? Well watch this!!!"
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
True, you have to score higher than 230/235 to have a chance to medal if you want to compete with them. Only 4 or 5 people can do it.

Are there 4 or 5 people besides Trusova, Shcherbakova and Kostornaia who have threatened 230 points in a major competition this year? (Rika Kihira got 230.33 at Skate Canada.)
 
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katymay

Medalist
Joined
Mar 7, 2006
The technical panel didn't saw any under-rotations and didn't call any under rotations. If the saw under rations, why should they not call them? That will be unfair and wrong judging. The technical panel is professionals and they are doing their job the best they can, which includes fairness too.

I didn't notice Anna, but it looked to me like Sotoko's combo was UR. I was surprised they didn't call it.
 
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