2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[sclloyd]

My guess is Liza lost the level feature on the first basic camel position in her CCoSp, she only did 1 1/2 clear revolutions before changing position, minimum is 2 revs according to rules, e.g. Anna did 3 1/2 revs in her CCoSp in the same basic position before switching to a sitspin position, therefore she was given the level feature.

Yes those are the rules I was familiar with hence my confusion. I count two full revolutions. Seems Plushy is right— best make it three so the judges don’t sell you short.

I wasn’t asking about Anna, only why Liza’s spin was degraded. It’s futile to compete with the rest of you who point by point compare skaters.

I will say, I’ve not been a big fan of Liza’s skating in the past, but I actually liked this performance of hers. The new dress is much improved, also. I hope she continues moving in a positive direction.

While we’re still on the subject of scoring... I remember a few weeks ago there was conversation about why Maia’s 4S was counted as << which seems topical again since Anya’s 3Lo was counted as a 2Lo. Shouldn’t it be 3Lo<< because it was supposed to be a 3Lo attempt?

 

[Scott512]

Oh don't be mad. I still root for plushie skaters. Super Sasha and Princess Aliona are fantastic and that is undeniable no matter who they are coached by.

 

[Fool]

If the judges won’t allow Liza to win, then I’m hoping for the young Daria to upset the overwhelming favored Anna.

Strange thing to hope for before anyone has even stepped foot on ice for the actual Free Skate.

 

[plushyfan]

Oh don't be mad. I still root for plushie skaters.

Do you think I'm mad? No. I'm just bored I didn't even read your post to the end. I don’t usually read when I read the same ridiculous and hateful things.

 

[Lunalovesskating]

Yes those are the rules I was familiar with hence my confusion. I count two full revolutions. Seems Plushy is right— best make it three so the judges don’t sell you short.

I wasn’t asking about Anna, only why Liza’s spin was degraded. It’s futile to compete with the rest of you who point by point compare skaters.

It wasn't two. The revolutions start to count as soon as she is in full position not before that, from the point she is in the full camel position till she turns downwards to change position are only 1 1/2 revs. Yes, it is best to do 3 just in case

 

[Tolstoj]

But see, that's the point. Your liking is not in the rules. There is a difference.

I said judges specifically cause what i think is right is also in the rules.

For example:

- If the take-off is not good (like a full blade instead of a toe pick in a flip or lutz) you should NOT even be able to get a +4 or +5, but only up to +3, regardless of the difficulty entry.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

 

[NadezhdaNadya]

Why no one has uploaded Alina Zabora's performance?
What happens with Tarakanova and Gubanova?

 

[NadezhdaNadya]

I said judges specifically cause what i think is right is also in the rules.

For example:

- If the take-off is not good (like a full blade instead of a toe pick in a flip or lutz) you should NOT even be able to get a +4 or +5, regardless of the fancy entrance.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

I love your post.
Plus Anna's triples do not have significant height nor significant distance.

 

[yume]

I'm interested, where exactly Shcherbakova should have lost points and where Tuktamysheva should have gained more? What should have been their scores?

 

[TripleAxelQueens3]

I do think Anna was overscored here, but I don't think it was anything too horrible. She's almost always been overscored (not hate to her, honestly, all the top Russian ladies are overscored), so her score makes some sense here in comparison to her scores throughout her career. If I were to really grade harshly, I think I would've given her 70 points (maybe one spin bonus), but you can argue for why she deserved her score.

 

[TripleAxelQueens3]

I'm interested, where exactly Shcherbakova should have lost points and where Tuktamysheva should have gained more? What should have been their scores?

1. Anna's GOE for her jumps should've been +3, there were a few +4s out there for the 2A and 3F which don't make sense for me because her heights don't get the height nor distance to qualify for "good height and distance" in my opinion (it's so sad that objective things like good height and distance and now opinionated. I'd say Kostornaia's jumps, maybe Anna's quads and Sasha's quads and Kamila's quads deserve this bullet.)
2. Her skating skills shouldn't have been 9.40. Anna does a wonderful job of emoting and captivating the audience, but she is relatively slower on ice, and her step sequence, at spots, feels labored (though this is partially the fault of the bad choreography). Her edges could be better too.
3. Step sequence shouldn't have gotten so many +4s, I'd say it's a +3 MAX, and I'd give it a +1.5. It just doesn't match the music. But her edges are okay, and she's very committed.
4. Not a big fan of her spins, I don't like her upright position (I really like the camel, but it wasn't at its best today), but they do match the bullets for GOE, so I get the spin bonuses.
5. ! call for lutz, so should be -3 for the entire combo (-1 for edge, -2 for bad landing)
6. Also composition should be lower, it doesn't match the music.
7. The other PCS categories I agree with, her performance ability is really very good. She interprets the music really well!

I think Liza's score was fair enough (maybe one of the spins should've been a level higher but maybe I'm just really bad at counting).

 

[yume]

1. Anna's GOE for her jumps should've been +3, there were a few +4s out there for the 2A and 3F which don't make sense for me because her heights don't get the height nor distance to qualify for "good height and distance" in my opinion (it's so sad that objective things like good height and distance and now opinionated. I'd say Kostornaia's jumps, maybe Anna's quads and Sasha's quads and Kamila's quads deserve this bullet.)
2. Her skating skills shouldn't have been 9.40. Anna does a wonderful job of emoting and captivating the audience, but she is relatively slower on ice, and her step sequence, at spots, feels labored (though this is partially the fault of the bad choreography). Her edges could be better too.
3. Step sequence shouldn't have gotten so many +4s, I'd say it's a +3 MAX, and I'd give it a +1.5. It just doesn't match the music. But her edges are okay, and she's very committed.
4. Not a big fan of her spins, I don't like her upright position (I really like the camel, but it wasn't at its best today), but they do match the bullets for GOE, so I get the spin bonuses.
5. ! call for lutz, so should be -3 for the entire combo (-1 for edge, -2 for bad landing)
6. Also composition should be lower, it doesn't match the music.
7. The other PCS categories I agree with, her performance ability is really very good. She interprets the music really well!

I think Liza's score was fair enough (maybe one of the spins should've been a level higher but maybe I'm just really bad at counting).

Ok. That means that she should have lost how many points? 2-3?

 

[Lzbee]

I can only find 3 of the performances from today on YouTube somehow.

Liza was so lovely today, she's improved so much in her artistry and spins and the dress is gorgeous. Truly the empress. I'm really pleased to see her team take on board the criticisms they've had in the past.

Poor Anna has to work really hard to make the choreography match the music and whilst she is lovely and does a fair job of it, I'm still not a fan of the program. It's clear she's grown a lot since last season and it's impressive that she's managed to keep such a high level of tech but it's also obvious that she's getting national champ bonus. That wasn't a 37 pcs performance for me. Her spins definitely deserve the bonus marks though so I'm not complaining about the scores. She's only .11 ahead of Liza anyway.

Daria is so nice to watch, she really has something special. I feel like all her programs so far have been similar but I don't feel bored by it somehow. She reminds me of the golden age Hollywood actresses, full of glamour and elegance and class. Anyway, I'm glad the judges didn't shy away from putting her ahead of Anna this time.

 

[Novalis]

I can only find 3 of the performances from today on YouTube somehow.

Liza was so lovely today, she's improved so much in her artistry and spins and the dress is gorgeous. Truly the empress. I'm really pleased to see her team take on board the criticisms they've had in the past.

Poor Anna has to work really hard to make the choreography match the music and whilst she is lovely and does a fair job of it, I'm still not a fan of the program. It's clear she's grown a lot since last season and it's impressive that she's managed to keep such a high level of tech but it's also obvious that she's getting national champ bonus. That wasn't a 37 pcs performance for me. Her spins definitely deserve the bonus marks though so I'm not complaining about the scores. She's only .11 ahead of Liza anyway.

Daria is so nice to watch, she really has something special. I feel like all her programs so far have been similar but I don't feel bored by it somehow. She reminds me of the golden age Hollywood actresses, full of glamour and elegance and class. Anyway, I'm glad the judges didn't shy away from putting her ahead of Anna this time.

Also:

Sofia Samodurova: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBeqXucJuGw

Anastasia Gulyakova: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-guUtXu2lhw

 

[Jontor]

Well, yes, but it makes no sense, really, that a visually clean 3Lz+3T (even if there was an UR, it isn’t as disruptive as Anna’s turn/step out) would get -0.59 while a much bigger mistake would only have a deduction of -0.83. And on top of that, Anna‘s lutz didn‘t get the ! call it would have deserved...

I agree with this. I find it irritating that a visual "clean" jump or combination gets butchered more than other visual mistakes like step-outs, bad landings, hands down etc. In Liza's case though, it was very obvious on the replay that the 3T was under.

The thing is what happens is that visual mistakes gets downgraded with GOE -1-2 or something. But underrotations gets lower BV, and THEN they ALSO downgrade the GOE with -1-2 which means underrotations get much more deductions.

This is the main flaw I can see in the judging system now. It is SO irritating to see a "clean" skate and you get the tech points in the corner, but then suddenly the total tech score is 10 points lower because of underrotations. It is very annoying.

I remember Talalaykina at Stage One, when she skated a "clean" free skate to her wonderful Maleficent program. But there were lots of underrotations in there, and her score got butchered. It was sad to see, because she was so happy with her skate but when the scores came there was only disappointment.

This is also something I notice that non skating fans don't understand when they watch figure skating. They can't understand why that person won, though she had a fall, while the other who was "clean" didn't.

I don't have any solution to this problem. It is what it is under the current judging system.

 

[Fluture]

I'm interested, where exactly Shcherbakova should have lost points and where Tuktamysheva should have gained more? What should have been their scores?

I did a quick rescoring and will now object myself to the scrutiny. (kinda makes you appreciate the judges‘ jobs more lol)

Here‘s my ranking:
1. Usacheva 73,93 (76,93)
2. Tuktamysheva 71,72 (73,72)
3. Shcherbakova 69,58 (71,58)

Usacheva 73,93 (with spin bonuses 76,9)
2A +4
3Lze -1
FCSp4 +5
3F+3T x +3
CCoSp4 +4
StSq4 +3
LSp4 +5

Total TES: 39,73

PCS:
SS 8,75
TR 8,75
PE 8,25
CO 8,50
IN 8,50

Total PCS: 34,20

Tuktamysheva 71,72 (with 3A bonus 73,Or do you get one point for a 3A, don‘t remember)

3A +2
3Lzq+3T< -2
FCSp4 +2
3Fx +3
LSp3 +3
StSq2 +1
CCoSp3 +2

Total TES: 38,52

PCS:
SS 8,00
TR 8,00
PE 8,50
CO 8,50
IN 8,50

Total PCS: 33,20

Shcherbakova 69,58 (with spin bonuses 71,58)
2A +2
3F +3
CCoSp4 +5
3Lz!+2Lo x -3
FCSp4 +3
StSq4 +2
LSp4 +5

Total TES: 35,58

PCS:
SS 8,00
TR 8,75
PE 8,50
CO 8,50
IN 8,75

Total PCS: 34,00

Tbh, the ranking is as I expected it. Though I thought the difference between Liza and Anna would be bigger. But this really shows what a difference spin levels and PCS can make.

Well, that‘s just from Subjective Judge Fluture. What d‘yall think?

 

[TripleAxelQueens3]

But see, that's the point. Your liking is not in the rules. There is a difference.

I'm sorry but this is not a like or dislike thing. You can do a split jump into spread eagle into back counter into spiral into bracket into quad lutz, but if that lutz is an inside edge, it's flawed. The million transitions ahead of it don't change that fact. Sure, the GOE will be better, but it's flawed. Just like the fact that big jumps don't necessarily equal clean jumps, difficult entrances don't equal good edge takeoffs. And that's a fact. And as Tolstoj says, it is in the rules that flawed jumps don't get high GOE.

 

[Jontor]

I kind of feel like the judging system is a mess. It is.confusing and if they are going to reward a sub par skate by Anna over that of Tut - and it is justified with the scoring system - the scoring system needs a complete overhaul. At least with the old 6.0 system it was somewhat clearer

Oh no it was not clearer with the 6.0 system. Then you had repeatedly no clue on what score to expect. There was no transparency on why the judges gave the scores they gave, and the reputation scoring was everything back then.

 

[TripleAxelQueens3]

Ok. That means that she should have lost how many points? 2-3?

My total was 70.14, so around 5 points.
For reference:
1. 2A - +3
2. 3F - +3
3. CCoSp4 - +4
4. 3Lz!+2Lo - -3
5. FCSp4 - +3
6. StSq4 - +1
7. LSp4 - +4

SS - 8.50
TR - 9.25
PE - 9.25
CO - 8.50
IN - 9.50

 

[Lzbee]

Also:

Sofia Samodurova: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBeqXucJuGw

Anastasia Gulyakova: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-guUtXu2lhw

Thank you!

Nice to see Sofia get her jumps back but she seems more flaily than before. I don't know, I'm missing some of her previous pizzazz... The score seems about right to me.

Guliakova is nice but I can help but compare to Yuna's program when I hear this Scheherazade music so the skater/program would have to be truly exceptional. Her Lutz edge doesn't look correct even in real time so I'm surprised no e call here.