2021-22 Russian Pairs' Figure Skating | Page 19 | Golden Skate

2021-22 Russian Pairs' Figure Skating

vorravorra

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 9, 2016
Not sure if that is good enough excuse to traumatise other people. Doesn’t she realise that people are thinking something about her needing to look at herself in the mirror?
That's not an excuse, more of an explanation. Plus they do not encounter any resistance to their approach, so why change? No skater/gymnast is going to tell Mozer or Viner to look in the mirror unless they are contemplating career suicide.
 

skylark

Gazing at a Glorious Great Lakes sunset
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Aug 12, 2014
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Yes, as per her interview- she skated with Mironov, and then the coaches split them up, gave Mironov Geinish and she was paired with Antonyshev. But then she was not landing jumps with Antonyshev either, and the coaches gave up far too soon. .... I remember Mozer mentioning in the interview a year or two ago how M/M had big future
TSL have mentioned how frequently Mozer splits up pairs couples. I took it with a grain of salt until I started paying attention to the announcements. Mozer really does seem to have a record of splitting existing pairs and re-pairing them with others. It's strange -- a female coach ought to understand that changes caused by puberty may require some time to adjust. And Diana & Ilya apparently were a promising pair.

It's a very interesting article. Diana is quite a young woman. She mentions twice how important it is to feel that your coaching team believes in you. And how much a difference it makes that instead of being scolded, she's now being praised by Pavel P. when she does something well, which encourages her when she needs to make an adjustment.

I really enjoyed learning about Diana from her own words. Thanks for the link, @CrazyKittenLady
 

hanca

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
That's not an excuse, more of an explanation. Plus they do not encounter any resistance to their approach, so why change? No skater/gymnast is going to tell Mozer or Viner to look in the mirror unless they are contemplating career suicide.
I am surprised that some of the kids’s relatives did not put it online anonymously, asking Mozer to look into a mirror.
 

CrazyKittenLady

Team Moskvich - Stable of Dark Horses
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Diana seems to be a very sensible young woman. She is aware that the changes her body is going through are completely natural and not some bad thing that needs to be fought. She reminds me of Nastia Mishina in that regard, and look where she is now.
This is also the third interview in the past two months where I've read a skater say that one if not the most important thing is their coach believing in them. Just goes to show that the coach-student relationship is so much more than just a business relationship.
 
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Flying Feijoa

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I'm a bit surprised - wasn't she paired with another partner? I remember I was joking that he was so handsome that I could understand Liza's decision to switch to pairs...
Do you mean Osokina's former partner (Andrei Rud)? I wonder who he's skating with now, if anybody 🤔
 

hanca

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
Yes, I think it was Andrei Rud. Honestly, it's not easy to follow all that partner switches in Mozer team :)
I think someone mentioned on Russian forum that Rud is injured. That’s why they apparently took Antonyshev from Mukhametzianova and gave him to Osokina. Osokina probably looked more promising (because she currently doesn’t struggle with puberty) and they didn’t want to waste her time sitting and waiting for Rud when she needs to be learning pairs elements. (They didn’t write anything specific about the injury, but my guess would be that it must be something that is supposed to be healing for a while- like matter of months rather than just a simple sprain, because surely they would wait if it was just a matter of a few weeks…)
 

Mauvedreamer

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 3, 2021
TSL have mentioned how frequently Mozer splits up pairs couples. I took it with a grain of salt until I started paying attention to the announcements. Mozer really does seem to have a record of splitting existing pairs and re-pairing them with others. It's strange -- a female coach ought to understand that changes caused by puberty may require some time to adjust. And Diana & Ilya apparently were a promising pair.

It's a very interesting article. Diana is quite a young woman. She mentions twice how important it is to feel that your coaching team believes in you. And how much a difference it makes that instead of being scolded, she's now being praised by Pavel P. when she does something well, which encourages her when she needs to make an adjustment.

I really enjoyed learning about Diana from her own words. Thanks for the link, @CrazyKittenLady
Yes I did too. Thankyou.@cazykittenLady. Pavel seems come across as a very balanced and good coach. He certainly has a lot of talent. I like him a lot. On the subject any news on Panfilova and Rylov. Apologies if spelling is wrong. I miss them so much. 😪
 

Vasilisa1

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 26, 2021
TSL have mentioned how frequently Mozer splits up pairs couples. I took it with a grain of salt until I started paying attention to the announcements. Mozer really does seem to have a record of splitting existing pairs and re-pairing them with others. It's strange -- a female coach ought to understand that changes caused by puberty may require some time to adjust. And Diana & Ilya apparently were a promising pair.

It's a very interesting article. Diana is quite a young woman. She mentions twice how important it is to feel that your coaching team believes in you. And how much a difference it makes that instead of being scolded, she's now being praised by Pavel P. when she does something well, which encourages her when she needs to make an adjustment.

I really enjoyed learning about Diana from her own words. Thanks for the link, @CrazyKittenLady
TSL was right. This is an ‘answer’ of Mozer’s team to Diana’s interview:
Hi, my name is Natalya Kalugina. And I work for MozerTeam in the context of the club's media project. I really do not want to involve the coaches in the discussion that arose on the basis of the separation of the couple Diana Mukhametzyanova and Ilya Mironov. Therefore, I want to dot the i with the minimum participation of specialists, who already have a lot of work in the season (and out of season).

All athletes mentioned here have specific names and surnames. But they weren't allowed to reveal their little female secrets. Unlike Diana Mukhametzyanova, who provoked these reflections.

Let's start with the simplest. Has anyone heard of the so-called pyramid in sports? It's so simple - out of ten thousand recruited kids, one will become an Olympic champion. On the one hand, these numbers are needed in order to understand that there will not be ten thousand, which means that the country's chance of getting an Olympic champion is significantly reduced. But there is a flip side to the medal: one will become an Olympic champion. The other 9999 people, having passed through the crucible of selection, will be eliminated at different stages. Including at the stage of transition from juniors to adults. By the way, during this period, the most painful losses occur - the first results seem to be there, but they cannot be confirmed. The body is changing. Doesn't obey. And the coach saw no prospects. This is exactly what happened to Diana Mukhametzyanova. The question arises: why exactly with her?

- The partner was gaining weight. This became dangerous for Ilya Mironov. The risk of injury increased when performing paired elements. - Says Vladislav Zhovnirsky, Honored Coach of the country. - But that's not the point. We tried to save Diana's back. At such a weight, she could injure her back, which is already sick with her. She's going to live on ...

In principle, the answer is comprehensive. And this could be the point. But maybe the skater switched to parsley with one black crouton, a spoonful of caviar, two pineapple slices a day and a little dried apricots to support the heart muscle? And maybe she did cross-country runs every day in two sweaters and a synthetic suit, and then, after the bath, trained in full volume? So they brought one champion to the Olympic Games. This is atrocity, but that athlete TOGETHER with the coach strove for a medal and deliberately went to self-torture. Maybe the coaches underestimated Diana's aspiration?

Choreographer Ramil Mehdiev reports:

- When Diana was still a child, her performance was very high. She was very talented and she did it well. She did not spend much effort because it was convenient for her to do it. As soon as the weight problems started, things became much more difficult. Plus, when a person grows up, complexes appear. When I was doing zoom with them during a pandemic, I gave them a folk lesson. For each skater, I came up with some movements. For Diana, I made a Tatar combination. Diana, a person outwardly very calm and emotionless, did not say anything to me. When the time came for the report, she said that she would not perform the combination I proposed. I - and so and so with her. She is not in any. I gave her combination to another girl, which again did not cause any emotions in Diana. But emotions appeared in her mother - she called me and said that I had to make her daughter work. Diana grew up and there were problems. When I worked with her, it was very difficult to get her image and character out of her. She seemed to be dodging her work. Of course, it could have been put into a difficult regime, but it would hardly have been successful. The fact is that figure skating is a kind of sport where an athlete must want the result himself, he must not do it out of hand. A coach is not a whip, a coach is not a Cerberus. A coach is a person who helps to correct mistakes. For two years Diana could not lose weight. I personally looked for both nutritionists and doctors. But nothing helped. I talked to her in a good way, and in a bad way - she doesn't want to, that's all. Lack of motivation or willpower. Or the age has come such when you don't want to do anything. All this time, Diana worked half-leg and did not want to fulfill any requirements. Here…

There is one point that Ramil did not want to talk about - a genetic predisposition. If it is in the genetics that at maturation the girl will never return to low weight, then this will be so. However, the whole question is in relation to the situation of the heroine of history and her mother.

... About six months before the Olympic Games, we sat in a good coaching company and chatted. The topic was the weight of the potential leader of the national team. Her personal trainer and part-time mom sighed:


- First menstruation. We will not return to sports form for the Games ...

One of her colleagues smiled.

- Don't you know how it's done? Reduce her weight below menstrual (42 kg) - you will not notice puberty. You will have it ringing ...

- Are you suggesting that I choose between a medal and future grandchildren?

The trainer mom's eyes narrowed. She thought for a second. She sighed. And I went to cook my daughter's favorite dumplings. That athlete has been working as a coach for a long time, a happy mother and a happy wife.

Sport sometimes ends with a medal, and sometimes only begins with its loss. Do you remember figure skater Moser? Do you know the coach Nina Mikhailovna Moser? Do you remember figure skater Osipova? And the coach Elena Anatolyevna Tchaikovskaya? Continue the list? Such is the fate of those 9999 who did not reach a single victory, did not pass through the terrible sieve of elite sports, but fell madly in love with it and made it their life.

If Diana Mukhametzyanova loves figure skating so much, then one day she will make a set of children. In the first set, most likely, there will not be a single potential champion. There will be a second, third, fifth ... In each set, she will save someone's life and health. And one day a flower from coach Mukhametzyanova will bloom. And she and her mother, husband and child will come to Nina Mikhailovna and say thank you for the happiness of being with your family and the happiness of being in the profession. Until they realize it.

The source


it’s really a great fortune Mishina or Boikova (they were criticized by Mozer) didn’t get into MozerTeam whlie they were children.
 

lurkerghost1

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 6, 2021
Yes I am wondering about Panfilova/Rylov too, they should be the #5 team this year if they are healthy ahead of Artemeva/Nazarychev. Artistically I thought they had the most potential of the current Russian teams too.

Between Kostiukovich/Ialin, Panfilova/Rylov, Akhanteva/Kolesov, Mukhametzianova/Mironov, and Artemeva/Nazarychev, A/N would have been the last ones I expected to transition well to seniors given their weird twist and yet here they are, 1st reserves to the Grand Prix final and none of the other teams can be heard from...
 

skylark

Gazing at a Glorious Great Lakes sunset
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TSL was right. This is an ‘answer’ of Mozer’s team to Diana’s interview:

it’s really a great fortune Mishina or Boikova (they were criticized by Mozer) didn’t get into MozerTeam whlie they were children.

I'm not familiar with Boikova's history, but I've been thinking the same thing about Anastasia Mishina. I think she and Aleksandr said something like, "we found each other." Of course, they had the same coaches already, and it seems they didn't have resistance from the coaches to their teaming up. From what I've read (not much, as I'm restricted to English), it sounds like Nastia was pro-active about everything, saying publicly beforehand that she and Mirzoev would likely split; and "she said that he was struggling with her weight but that it was not possible for her to lose more." (According to Wiki). I think that shows real spirit and a very strong groundedness, especially for a 15-year-old girl.

I didn't know that Mishina and Boikova had been criticized by Mozer. When was that? Was it about their weight? Do you have a link to an article?
 

Mauvedreamer

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 3, 2021
Yes I am wondering about Panfilova/Rylov too, they should be the #5 team this year if they are healthy ahead of Artemeva/Nazarychev. Artistically I thought they had the most potential of the current Russian teams too.

Between Kostiukovich/Ialin, Panfilova/Rylov, Akhanteva/Kolesov, Mukhametzianova/Mironov, and Artemeva/Nazarychev, A/N would have been the last ones I expected to transition well to seniors given their weird twist and yet here they are, 1st reserves to the Grand Prix final and none of the other teams can be heard from...
Rylov did have a back injury but I have no idea if they are back training? Just wondered If anyone knew .
 

hanca

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
I'm not familiar with Boikova's history, but I've been thinking the same thing about Anastasia Mishina. I think she and Aleksandr said something like, "we found each other." Of course, they had the same coaches already, and it seems they didn't have resistance from the coaches to their teaming up. From what I've read (not much, as I'm restricted to English), it sounds like Nastia was pro-active about everything, saying publicly beforehand that she and Mirzoev would likely split; and "she said that he was struggling with her weight but that it was not possible for her to lose more." (According to Wiki). I think that shows real spirit and a very strong groundedness, especially for a 15-year-old girl.

I didn't know that Mishina and Boikova had been criticized by Mozer. When was that? Was it about their weight? Do you have a link to an article?
I don’t think I would call it being proactive. Mishina/Mirzoev were doing pretty well, but she was growing, puberty meant that she was also adding weight. There was an interview from their coach moaning about Mishina, how her emotions were all over the place. She portrayed her as lazy and overly emotional. Then there was an interview from Mishina saying that there was pressure on her to lose weight, but the weight Mirzoev wanted her to be would be unhealthy for her. I don’t recall whether he wanted her to be under 40kg, or something ridiculous like that. They were supposed to split up after the end of the season because Mirzoev was skating with injury and struggled lifting her, but Mirzoev called it off a bit earlier so they were not competing at junior worlds. Based on the interviews, I expected the coaches to be bending backwards for Mirzoev, but fortunately they wanted to help her too. The coaches split up a promising junior pair Osipova-Galliamov to give Mishina a decent partner. So I would take the claims that they ‘found’ each other with a pinch of salt. I think she meant by that that they fit well together, rather than that they actually found each othered. Also, Mishina/Galliamov’s start together was a bit slow. Everyone expected the results much faster, considering her medal from junior worlds and him doing so well with Osipova. At one point their coach even said that whatever they could do before summer holiday they completely forgot, so after summer holiday they were starting again from zero.I think it was quite a relief when they finally gelled together.
 

hanca

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
Yes I am wondering about Panfilova/Rylov too, they should be the #5 team this year if they are healthy ahead of Artemeva/Nazarychev. Artistically I thought they had the most potential of the current Russian teams too.

Between Kostiukovich/Ialin, Panfilova/Rylov, Akhanteva/Kolesov, Mukhametzianova/Mironov, and Artemeva/Nazarychev, A/N would have been the last ones I expected to transition well to seniors given their weird twist and yet here they are, 1st reserves to the Grand Prix final and none of the other teams can be heard from...
I think at the moment you are comparing apples and oranges. A bit unfair putting Panfilova/Rylov into the mix considering that they lost the whole season because of injuries.

And comparing Kostiukovich/Ialin, Akhanteva/Kolesov and Mukhametzianova/Mironov with Artemeva/Nazarychev is also not very good, as A/N are the only pair who actually skated in seniors this season. I think everyone could see it coming that Kostiukovich will outgrow Ialin. With Mukhametzianova/Mironov, his figure was not very compatible with a figure of a female going through a puberty. He is stick think, and she wasn’t, which was not a problem pre-puberty, but did not leave much room for body changes during puberty. It is the same situation as Mishina/Mirzoev a few years back. Akhanteva/Kolesov, on paper they should be great. They are together the longest from the junior pairs, they got to a decent level, and yet they are somehow unable to do the extra step to get on top of junior pairs. They are good enough to be among the better ones (to compete at JGP), but not consistent enough to fight for the top spots.
 

lurkerghost1

On the Ice
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Mar 6, 2021
I think at the moment you are comparing apples and oranges. A bit unfair putting Panfilova/Rylov into the mix considering that they lost the whole season because of injuries.

And comparing Kostiukovich/Ialin, Akhanteva/Kolesov and Mukhametzianova/Mironov with Artemeva/Nazarychev is also not very good, as A/N are the only pair who actually skated in seniors this season. I think everyone could see it coming that Kostiukovich will outgrow Ialin. With Mukhametzianova/Mironov, his figure was not very compatible with a figure of a female going through a puberty. He is stick think, and she wasn’t, which was not a problem pre-puberty, but did not leave much room for body changes during puberty. It is the same situation as Mishina/Mirzoev a few years back. Akhanteva/Kolesov, on paper they should be great. They are together the longest from the junior pairs, they got to a decent level, and yet they are somehow unable to do the extra step to get on top of junior pairs. They are good enough to be among the better ones (to compete at JGP), but not consistent enough to fight for the top spots.
Yes it’s a bit apples to oranges but that was really the point. During September/October 2019 those teams were the top five Russian junior teams and it’s true that at the time I thought for sure P/R and A/K would go win medals in seniors very soon. In fact of these five times Artemeva/Nazarychev were the least decorated in juniors (only one Junior world bronze they got later that season) in addition to having the weird technique on the twist and throws. So it’s surprising to see only two years later they are the most successful and the other teams are not only less successful than them but aren’t skating at all this season.

In fact as I’m sure you remember the whole pairs situation in 19-20 was very up in the air. Tarasova/Morozov were inconsistent and switching coaches after losing to Sui/Han, Zabiako/Enbert retired. B/K were only just becoming a top team and most people didn’t think M/G and P/K were top teams at all (which I always thought was silly considering their superior jumps and being Junior world champs - of course they were going to get big scores). So the predictions for the Olympics outside of T/M were pretty open, I remember many saying Panfilova/Rylov would go the Olympics if they got a 3S. A reminder of how unpredictable this sport is!
 

Flying Feijoa

On the Ice
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Sep 22, 2019
Country
New-Zealand
- First menstruation. We will not return to sports form for the Games ...

One of her colleagues smiled.

- Don't you know how it's done? Reduce her weight below menstrual (42 kg) - you will not notice puberty. You will have it ringing ...

- Are you suggesting that I choose between a medal and future grandchildren?

The trainer mom's eyes narrowed. She thought for a second. She sighed. And I went to cook my daughter's favorite dumplings. That athlete has been working as a coach for a long time, a happy mother and a happy wife.
That's awful :eek2: Also inaccurate, because the BMI/body fat threshold for exercise-induced amenorrhea/RED-S varies hugely between individuals. Thankfully it's reversible, so not a risk to grandkids-in-potentiae (but rather, bone density).

Glad Boikova and Mishina are in a place where their lankiness/muscularity can be capitalised on instead of seen as a liability. To be fair I enjoy watching a lot of Mozer Team skaters, but (kinda like Tutberidze, Davydov etc.) it seems like skaters that don't fit a certain 'ideal' physique (short, slim girl or tall boy) have a tough time there. Although, maybe this is the case with most pairs...
 

hanca

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
Yes it’s a bit apples to oranges but that was really the point. During September/October 2019 those teams were the top five Russian junior teams and it’s true that at the time I thought for sure P/R and A/K would go win medals in seniors very soon. In fact of these five times Artemeva/Nazarychev were the least decorated in juniors (only one Junior world bronze they got later that season) in addition to having the weird technique on the twist and throws. So it’s surprising to see only two years later they are the most successful and the other teams are not only less successful than them but aren’t skating at all this season.

In fact as I’m sure you remember the whole pairs situation in 19-20 was very up in the air. Tarasova/Morozov were inconsistent and switching coaches after losing to Sui/Han, Zabiako/Enbert retired. B/K were only just becoming a top team and most people didn’t think M/G and P/K were top teams at all (which I always thought was silly considering their superior jumps and being Junior world champs - of course they were going to get big scores). So the predictions for the Olympics outside of T/M were pretty open, I remember many saying Panfilova/Rylov would go the Olympics if they got a 3S. A reminder of how unpredictable this sport is!
When I wrote that it is like comparing apples and oranges, I didn’t mean because they are all at a different level. What I meant is that you can’t compare them if for example Panfilova/Rylov didn’t skate at all this season - what are you basing your comparison on? How good they are in your head? Or that they are not good because they are not here? You need to compare the actual results, so we have no data to compare for this pair.

Re: Akhanteva/Kolesov, I never thought that this season they would be in seniors getting medals. If someone is not good enough to get to the top in juniors, I wouldn’t expect them suddenly do miraculously well in seniors. They well in top five (maybe in top three) one season, but they never could push their way up. Look at the last season, they competed in senior Russian cups, and even though they managed to get two second places and qualify for senior and junior nationals, their marks were not great. Decent for juniors, but not for someone who wanted to be in seniors. I guess I did hope that this season suddenly something will click for them and with the strongest again moving up, they will finally be the top junior pair, but again this has not happened. In fact, their results went downhill this season.

With Kostiukovich/Briukhanov, when they got together, there was this hype on this forum how great they will be. It is understandable that two experienced pair skaters should be successful in theory, but one must not forget that the last year of Kostiukovich/Ialin she was seriously struggling with jumps and this problems won’t just disappear by changing a partner. So I was a bit sceptical about this pair having as successful transition to seniors as it was forecasted here, although they did belong into the group of top junior pairs (only because the other junior pairs were not quite ready yet). This season there were suddenly a few new pairs pushing through, and whatever Kostiukovich/Briukhanov and Akhanteva/Kolesov were able to do just was not enough.
 

lurkerghost1

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 6, 2021
Or that they are not good because they are not here?
correct. they are not even in the discussion for the Olympics or Worlds this year, they are a non-factor.
They well in top five (maybe in top three) one season, but they never could push their way up. Look at the last season, they competed in senior Russian cups, and even though they managed to get two second places and qualify for senior and junior nationals, their marks were not great. Decent for juniors, but not for someone who wanted to be in seniors. I guess I did hope that this season suddenly something will click for them and with the strongest again moving up, they will finally be the top junior pair, but again this has not happened. In fact, their results went downhill this season.
A/K were top five in juniors for three seasons: 18-19, 19-20, and 20-21. In fact in 18-19 the top scores on the JGP were: M/G 190, K/I 189, P/R 186, A/K 184. They qualified to the JGPF in 3rd place even ahead of P/K. They were VERY close to the top 3 and would have certainly had a chance to make junior worlds if they didn't pull out from nationals with illness. However at JGPF 19-20 it started getting worse for them, they were passed by M/M at JGPF and missed youth olympics, and then at junior worlds passed by A/N. But even then, can you really say you thought two years ago that A/N would be the first team to win medals in seniors? I think you would need a crystal ball.
 

skylark

Gazing at a Glorious Great Lakes sunset
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Aug 12, 2014
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I don’t think I would call it being proactive. Mishina/Mirzoev were doing pretty well, but she was growing, puberty meant that she was also adding weight. There was an interview from their coach moaning about Mishina, how her emotions were all over the place. She portrayed her as lazy and overly emotional. Then there was an interview from Mishina saying that there was pressure on her to lose weight, but the weight Mirzoev wanted her to be would be unhealthy for her.

I call that being proactive. Standing up for herself and not caving to what he wanted. It was also quite brave to say that publicly.

So I would take the claims that they ‘found’ each other with a pinch of salt. I think she meant by that that they fit well together, rather than that they actually found each othered.

I'm 90% sure it was Galliamov who said "we found each other," in the interview I saw, which was quite recent. Of course, if it was a print interview I probably read it via Google Translate, so there's that.
 

hanca

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
I call that being proactive. Standing up for herself and not caving to what he wanted. It was also quite brave to say that publicly.



I'm 90% sure it was Galliamov who said "we found each other," in the interview I saw, which was quite recent. Of course, if it was a print interview I probably read it via Google Translate, so there's that.
Yes, she might have been proactive in getting her side of story to media rather than losing weight into the extent her partner needed, but she wasn’t proactive in finding a new partner as you suggested. The coaches split Osipova/Galliamov to give her a decent partner. There was interview with Osipova, she wasn’t very impressed!
 
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