2021-22 Russian Women's Figure Skating

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I observe those frustrated people since 2014. I know where their frustration is coming from. They may be right in one thing. Eteri skaters might reach the peak of their tech excellence at 16. We don't have enough statistics yet to either prove or refute that statement. What is absolutely clear to me that if Eteri skaters including Alina demostrated the tech level of the current top American skaters many of whom cannot even jump a 3-3 combo, they could easily compete through their twenties. The problem is that you will be no one in Russia skating like that. Surely, no international assignments. Why would Alina be interested in being outside top 10 in the Russian nationals?

 

[flanker]

Zhenya and Anna? Alina won everything when she was 16 but if she wanted to continue A couple more years at a high level she could have even without an ultra jump.

Anna is having some struggles but putting up some good numbers still. I would not be surprised if she made the podium at the Olympics and she's almost 18 I also expect sasha to stay competitive for a couple more years.

Even if there is some regression in there for these skaters they're still really good.

That's it, objectively every skater I'm aware of had fluctuations in consistence between let's say 15 and 20 caused by body changes, growth, social environment etc. It is not an exclusivity for a certain school. The skaters who are given as an example of longevity etc. are in fact:
1. very rare cases,
2. even them had those issues,
3. have (had) completely different level of competition in their own country and after every not so good skate weren't publicly insluted with "she's done" narrative.

 

[Ziotic]

Well english is surely not the native language in my country that you can recognize from the flag under my avatar (we the people of the slavic countries do not speak english just with weird accents like in hollywood movies after all ). My english certainly has flaws and I am the first one who is willing to admit that, so if you have problems with it we can switch to my native, I'm sure our mutual understanding will reach much higher level

You certainly are not indifferent, but I really do not think it has anything to do with actual overscoring, but rather with your actual feelings (feelings of superiority and "moral high ground") about the particular parts of the world (the talks about true skating, right choreos, best coaches etc. are much more about this superiority complex than actual qualities). Anna has the bad luck of being currenly the one who is the embodiment of the frustration of particular people (you included) from the current development of the sport, definitely in the ladies category. She prolongs this line started with Evgenia (or maybe Adelina), continued with Alina, now it is her when it comes to this kind of criticism that doesn't come from the real evaluating of the skaters qualities but much more from personal gfeelings about other things.

But let's return to the modest beginnings. The original statement talked about regress at the certain age, when an example showing the difference was given, the topic was changed. So, let me claim that Anna is the example of a consistent skater at higher age than the original "thesis" introduced. And I certainly do not see skaters from elsewhere who could be offered as an example of the obvious belief "we do it better".

You’ve unfortunate over played your hand.

I’m a huge fan of Yulia, Sasha, Kamilla and Aliona. All of whom have their own flaws but would embody the “current development of the sport” as you put it.

It isn’t about one school or one coach, it’s about unfair scores and favours for performances that don’t warrant it.

An equal playing field. That’s what I want to see and I don’t currently see it.


Alas, Anna often takes the brunt of critique as she is consistently rewarded even when she has mistakes.

None of the critiques I made had anything to do with “right coaches” or “best choreography”. Although Alina had some atrocious programs that were still rewarded.

 

[icybear]

I observe those frustrated people since 2014. I know where their frustration is coming from. They may be right in one thing. Eteri skaters might reach the peak of their tech excellence at 16. We don't have enough statistics yet to either prove or refute that statement. What is absolutely clear to me that if Eteri skaters including Alina demostrated the tech level of the current top American skaters many of whom cannot even jump a 3-3 combo, they could easily compete through their twenties. The problem is that you will be no one in Russia skating like that. Surely, no international assignments. Why would Alina be interested in being outside top 10 in the Russian nationals?

Except when every one of Eteri skaters follow the same pattern, its hard for people to not follow that conclusion. Before 15/16, they are able to jump so easily like Alina in 2018, Kamila now, Anna in her first senior season. Then every season after that, their jumps get heavier and more and more labored. You could say that happens to every other skater because of puberty changes but do you honestly believe that Anna jumps will improve by the time she is 20 or will she end up like Evgenia unable to jump anything except for a triple salchow at a gala. And Alina is pretty much the same.

 

[brakes]

Except when every one of Eteri skaters follow the same pattern, its hard for people to not follow that conclusion. Before 15/16, they are able to jump so easily like Alina in 2018, Kamila now, Anna in her first senior season. Then every season after that, their jumps get heavier and more and more labored. You could say that happens to every other skater because of puberty changes but do you honestly believe that Anna jumps will improve by the time she is 20 or will she end up like Evgenia unable to jump anything except for a triple salchow at a gala. And Alina is pretty much the same.

I'm pretty sure that if Evgenia and Alina kept training, while taking care of their body and pacing themselves properly, they would've easily beaten Mariah Bell at the latest US Nats even with their heavier and more laboured jumps.

 

[flanker]

Except when every one of Eteri skaters follow the same pattern, its hard for people to not follow that conclusion. Before 15/16, they are able to jump so easily like Alina in 2018, Kamila now, Anna in her first senior season. Then every season after that, their jumps get heavier and more and more labored. You could say that happens to every other skater because of puberty changes but do you honestly believe that Anna jumps will improve by the time she is 20 or will she end up like Evgenia unable to jump anything except for a triple salchow at a gala. And Alina is pretty much the same.

Alina has shown flips and Lutzes at her appearances. She certainly does not train on competitive level currently, but no, she is not "pretty much the same", she's not injured and there is no obstacle to her if she wants to.

 

[Jeanie19]

Except when every one of Eteri skaters follow the same pattern, its hard for people to not follow that conclusion. Before 15/16, they are able to jump so easily like Alina in 2018, Kamila now, Anna in her first senior season. Then every season after that, their jumps get heavier and more and more labored. You could say that happens to every other skater because of puberty changes but do you honestly believe that Anna jumps will improve by the time she is 20 or will she end up like Evgenia unable to jump anything except for a triple salchow at a gala. And Alina is pretty much the same.

Evgenia is injured. She has had minor back surgery and jumping all jumps, except the salchow hurts her. There is no reason to cause herself pain skating in a gala. But at age 22, she has learned pair elements so that is impressive.

 

[flanker]

You’ve unfortunate over played your hand.

I’m a huge fan of Yulia, Sasha, Kamilla and Aliona. All of whom have their own flaws but would embody the “current development of the sport” as you put it.

It isn’t about one school or one coach, it’s about unfair scores and favours for performances that don’t warrant it.

An equal playing field. That’s what I want to see and I don’t currently see it.


Alas, Anna often takes the brunt of critique as she is consistently rewarded even when she has mistakes.

None of the critiques I made had anything to do with “right coaches” or “best choreography”. Although Alina had some atrocious programs that were still rewarded.

Still the same. As for Anna, it certainly is not about her scoring when you for instance use other skaters results (at events where she was not present at all) to make her look weak, hardly competitive etc. It is all about some deeply embedded feeling for people like you that you are the ones with the higher recognition of how the scoring should look like, which skaters are "favoured for performances that don't warrant it", which programs are "atrocious" (when you personally do not like them) etc. While I certainly understand that people have different taste, I for instance would never criticize the programs as if I was Gaius Petronius Arbiter. When you write things like "I want to see how outrageous the scores can be" (or how exactly it was expressed, I might not remember it word from word but I hope I remember the meaning), or perpetual insinuations how Russians are cheaters and all, it takes away every reason why to take any of your comments into serious consideration, it just shows that it all comes from sympathy/antipathy.

And it is still changing of the topic. You claim skaters from a certain school regress after the certain age, but Anna (and even Sasha) can be shown as the example of the opposite. And when you meet such evidence, to keep your original thesis alive you change it to "nah overscoring and favouritism" narrative.

 

[Greengemmonster]

Why is everyone so worried about the Russian ladies and their "regressing" jumps when others are inconsistent with 3-3s and in some cases can't eek out a 3-3 or fall on single triple jumps?

 

[brakes]

Why is everyone so "worried" about the Russian ladies and their "regressing" jumps when others are inconsistent with 3-3s and in some cases can't eek out a 3-3 or fall on single triple jumps?

Corrected.

 

[Ziotic]

Still the same. As for Anna, it certainly is not about her scoring when you for instance use other skaters results (at events where she was not present at all) to make her look weak, hardly competitive etc. It is all about some deeply embedded feeling for people like you that you are the ones with the higher recognition of how the scoring should look like, which skaters are "favoured for performances that don't warrant it", which programs are "atrocious" (when you personally do not like them) etc. While I certainly understand that people have different taste, I for instance would never criticize the programs as if I was Gaius Petronius Arbiter. When you write things like "I want to see how outrageous the scores can be" (or how exactly it was expressed, I might not remember it word from word but I hope I remember the meaning), or perpetual insinuations how Russians are cheaters and all, it takes away every reason why to take any of your comments into serious consideration, it just shows that it all comes from sympathy/antipathy.

And it is still changing of the topic. You claim skaters from a certain school regress after the certain age, but Anna (and even Sasha) can be shown as the example of the opposite. And when you meet such evidence, to keep your original thesis alive you change it to "nah overscoring and favouritism" narrative.

I guess we shall see who’s correct if the 15 yr olds ever stop beating the 18 year olds.

Also about cheating, why again does Russia not get to fly their flag at the Olympics …right that must baseless slander

 

[brakes]

Also about cheating, why again does Russia not get to fly their flag at the Olympics …right that must baseless slander

Like your mule kick allegation?

 

[Jontor]

I observe those frustrated people since 2014. I know where their frustration is coming from. They may be right in one thing. Eteri skaters might reach the peak of their tech excellence at 16. We don't have enough statistics yet to either prove or refute that statement. What is absolutely clear to me that if Eteri skaters including Alina demostrated the tech level of the current top American skaters many of whom cannot even jump a 3-3 combo, they could easily compete through their twenties. The problem is that you will be no one in Russia skating like that. Surely, no international assignments. Why would Alina be interested in being outside top 10 in the Russian nationals?

And that is exactly what people tend to forget. There are so many talented Russian women that the tech is what drives them. They have to, or else they would be outside of the top 10 at Russian nationals and have no international assignments.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

I guess we shall see who’s correct if the 15 yr olds ever stop beating the 18 year olds.

Also about cheating, why again does Russia not get to fly their flag at the Olympics …right that must baseless slander

Also about cheating, how do you have a Community award when your communication is not really communitive?

 

[Amei]

/Comparing Anna's results, not just numbers but the actual skating says her skating isn't much different from previous seasons. E.g. during her debut senior season she had problems with her short program several times. Previous season can't be fully compared as there were more domestic competitions but Anna's skates at the cup stages was similar to her skates at the GP stages this season. She currently doesn't do 4Lz, but she didn't do it at the cup stages previous season as well. I would really like to see a skater as consistent as Anna through three consecutive seasons at this age.

Disagree, while she still is 1 of the best skaters, in comparison to her 19/20 season and 20/21 season, she has had a bit of a regression on her TES. Which what started this discussion was a comment from someone remarking that Eteri's skaters regress after 15/16 years old. Shcherbakova is a great performer, my opinion is that how she feels and performs the music makes me forget issues that happen in her skating, and her ability to not let falls impact her performance is unmatched, especially among the Russian senior ladies. But TES has had a regression, I know she had the toe injury in the offseason that probably has impacted her, but the number of quads she is attempting this season as opposed to 2 seasons ago is less and her success rate is lower.

• 19/20 she was doing 2 quads, 1 in combination at both GP events and by the GPF she added a third quad - the only times she fell was her first competition attempt at GPF of the quad flip and then at Euros when all 3 Russians were not in their best shape. But in that whole season she attempted 14 quads with 2 falls
• 20/21 - yes this was only domestic events and then Worlds and WTT. 4 of the 6 competitions she only did 1 quad in the FS. Only 1 fall.
• This season with the exception of IDF she's only done 1 quad in each FS, Fall at Budapest trophy, botched take-off at IDF resulting in a missed jumping pass and fall at Nationals. So she's had 6 attempts of those 6 she's fallen twice and one botched take-off.

 

[Ziotic]

Also about cheating, how do you have a Community award when your communication is not really communitive?

I’ll admit the cheating comment was underhand. However, there was evident found by the IOC that systematic cheating was occurring, it’s not slander, it’s a fact and the reason Russia cannot raise their flag. I don’t think any current Russian skaters have cheated.

The skaters don’t control their scores, that’s on the ISU. What I have expressed is that scores are not reflective of what a skater puts out on the given day. I’ve provided specific examples, however, I’ve dared to point out Anna’s faults which is just unacceptable apparently…

 

[lopsilceci]

It's unfair and biased to single out Anna as the one who is not skating to her max level compared to 2 seasons ago.
First of all, last season was covid season and all skaters from all disciplines suffered from the consequences and "regressed" a bit from the previous seasons.
This season, we have many of the top skaters from 2 seasons ago who are not even going to the Olympics because of injury, lack of consistency or other reasons... Rika, Bradie, Aliona, etc. Alysa Liu, for example, has not been skating anywhere close to how she was 2 seasons ago but she has benefited from the lack of competition and consistency among US women.

It's not like Anna has lost her quads. If anything, her problems this season seem to be more in her head and still, she has done enough to keep medalling at every big competition and be the solid no. 2 russian woman.

 

[Greengemmonster]

It's unfair and biased to single out Anna as the one who is not skating to her max level compared to 2 seasons ago.
First of all, last season was covid season and all skaters from all disciplines suffered from the consequences and "regressed" a bit from the previous seasons.
This season, we have many of the top skaters from 2 seasons ago who are not even going to the Olympics because of injury, lack of consistency or other reasons... Rika, Bradie, Aliona, etc. Alysa Liu, for example, has not been skating anywhere close to how she was 2 seasons ago but she has benefited from the lack of competition and consistency among US women.

It's not like Anna has lost her quads. If anything, her problems this season seem to be more in her head and still, she has done enough to keep medalling at every big competition and be the solid no. 2 russian woman.

So true!!! I love Rika and Bradie to bits and still can't quite process that they're both out at the same time.

I actually think that Anna, Sasha and Aliona have done amazingly well and should be applauded for having pretty good longevity. There was a bit of drama, coach switching and a freaking pandemic but it's not like all of them just lost their jumps while the world was peachy. 2/3 are going to the Olympics. Sasha falls not because she's lost her jumps but because she does like a billion quads and it's trying the 3A in the short. Anna looks to be bouncing back from whatever issues that were plaguing her.

Now I adore the Russian juniors. I think they are absolutely amazing, fabulous, heck I even said they "wuzz robbed" based on Nationals performances etc etc.

However that was one competition! Sasha and Anna have plenty of weapons to challenge the up coming juniors and it will be about who is healthiest and can get it together on the day not because Anna and Sasha are barely able to eek out a triple.

 

[flanker]

Disagree, while she still is 1 of the best skaters, in comparison to her 19/20 season and 20/21 season, she has had a bit of a regression on her TES. Which what started this discussion was a comment from someone remarking that Eteri's skaters regress after 15/16 years old. Shcherbakova is a great performer, my opinion is that how she feels and performs the music makes me forget issues that happen in her skating, and her ability to not let falls impact her performance is unmatched, especially among the Russian senior ladies. But TES has had a regression, I know she had the toe injury in the offseason that probably has impacted her, but the number of quads she is attempting this season as opposed to 2 seasons ago is less and her success rate is lower.

• 19/20 she was doing 2 quads, 1 in combination at both GP events and by the GPF she added a third quad - the only times she fell was her first competition attempt at GPF of the quad flip and then at Euros when all 3 Russians were not in their best shape. But in that whole season she attempted 14 quads with 2 falls
• 20/21 - yes this was only domestic events and then Worlds and WTT. 4 of the 6 competitions she only did 1 quad in the FS. Only 1 fall.
• This season with the exception of IDF she's only done 1 quad in each FS, Fall at Budapest trophy, botched take-off at IDF resulting in a missed jumping pass and fall at Nationals. So she's had 6 attempts of those 6 she's fallen twice and one botched take-off.

Anna also fell during the SP at Skate America while executing a step sequence. When considering scores, her technical scores from GP Italy and Europeans are fully comparable with her previous highest int. scores at Skate America and 2019/20 GPF, while her interpretation level has increased. I don't think that should be called regression when she actually keeps scoring on more or less the same level and her worst international placement for the three senior seasons is silver position. If we want to do a double-take at every mistake she did, then we should do the same with the number of other skaters as well. I would really like to ask for an example of a skater who between the age of 15 and 18 keeps Anna's level of consistency even with an easier layout. Just compare her with Rika, Alysa Liu, You Young and others of the more or less same age who try hard layouts. Then all the "Eteri skaters regress after 15/16" look biased and not "well thought-out". Yes, Eteri skaters are not and will be not pitch perfect at every single occasion. Show me someone who is with their level of difficulty and we can talk.

 

[JazzUp]

Choreographer and coach of Eteri Tutberidze's group Daniil Gleikhengauz and Director General of the Russian Figure Skating Federation (FFKR) Alexander Kogan got positive tests for coronavirus.

This is reported by RBC-Sport, citing sources in the FFKR and the Russian Olympic Committee.

“Gleikhengauz and Kogan passed the test the day before, it showed a positive result. The disease is asymptomatic,” the source said.