2021-22 Russian Women's Figure Skating

[UpNorth]

Russia shouldn’t even be competing, IMO. They are either banned or they aren’t. There shouldn’t have been some weird new way for them to compete conjured up.
Doping must be punished harshly, so no one wants to risk it in the future. And when an entire country is proven to have a massive cover up, that entire country need to be banned.

 

[Artemisa]

Russia shouldn’t even be competing, IMO. They are either banned or they aren’t. There shouldn’t have been some weird new way for them to compete conjured up.
Doping must be punished harshly, so no one wants to risk it in the future. And when an entire country is proven to have a massive cover up, that entire country need to be banned.

So we need to punish USA ? China? North Korea? Cuba? Almost all countries ex-USSR ? .. because all of them have a good history of doping .. but for some reason only Russia is ROC ...

 

[Fried]

It's sad to see the vultures jumping in at any chance to bash Eteri and her skaters.

These discussions and speculations are pointless before we know the facts.

It's always the same pattern. One is outraged by statements that one assumes of others, but which they never made. I would ask you to quote posts attacking skaters. I haven't found any.

 

[beachmouse]

does kamila have a heart problem? since i heard that what she might have taken if true in december is a medikament for the heart? in which a substance is used that will show up in a drug test?

and with if true i mean since we do not have offical confirmation as of now and dont know for sure if it is kamila but if it is then sorry but what the heck were eteri and the adults up too? it also reflects on her other skaters as well

There is a process for getting a Therapeutic Use Exemption if this is the case. It generally requires significant paperwork and documentation from an athlete's doctor but is seen as generally fair in the end.

yes, they do - by accident; one Russian athlete was penalized for a microscopic amount of banned substance in his test (just like in Kamila's case, meaning it was 100% NOT used as a PED since it - the banned substance - has to be taken as a course for it to have any effect, and the amount then would definitely not be 'microscopic') - and he got it after crushing a pill for his son with a spoon (and using the same spoon later)


the spoon?

A Russian social media post from the other thread mentioned 'microdosing'. If this is a correct translation, then it has a very specific meaning in English language anti-doping- a team of doctors/coaches/pharmacists thinks they have calculated an amount of the substance that is enough to improve performance a little but not enough to be picked up on a drug test. It is why Alberto Salazar is banned from global athletics even though his athletes were generally very good at passing their drug tests.

 

[UpNorth]

So we need to punish USA ? China? North Korea? Cuba? Almost all countries ex-USSR ? .. because all of them have a good history of doping .. but for some reason only Russia is ROC ...

I think perhaps you are confusing what an idividual athlete does vs what an entire organization/country pushes. An elaborate system to cheat like Russia did is worthy of banishment.
What if it came out that the US had a special building built by in Salt Lake when they were hosting, which allowed their athletes to dope, but they could exchange the bad urine with clean?
No matter what country did that, they should be banned. It’s not fair to the rest of the world’s athletes.

 

[Tomadeur]

Russia shouldn’t even be competing, IMO. They are either banned or they aren’t. There shouldn’t have been some weird new way for them to compete conjured up.
Doping must be punished harshly, so no one wants to risk it in the future. And when an entire country is proven to have a massive cover up, that entire country need to be banned.

Russia was banned nearly completly, but because of a court decision by the CAS most of the athletes were reinstated if they could prove their "innocence", because there was no base to ban these athletes. This was done by regular WADA-tests, not training under charged trainers or having contact with charged doctors. Very abbreviated look at it.

And remember the McLaren-Report was only looking at the time between 2011-2016. Many russian athletes weren't professionals back than, especially when you look at the figure skating team.

Edit: I am not saying there's no doping in Russia anymore, but as far as i know we don't have any reports at the moment that there is a doping system in place as before 2016. Would this be the case the punishment (ending 16. Dec. 2022) would already have been extended. Individual cases most probably won't affect this.

 

[UpNorth]

Russia was banned nearly completly, but because of a court decision by the CAS most of the athletes were reinstated if they could prove their "innocence", because there was no base to ban these athletes. This was done by regular WADA-tests, not training under charged trainers or having contact with charged doctors. Very abbreviated look at it.

And remember the McLaren-Report was only looking at the time between 2011-2016. Many russian athletes weren't professionals back than, especially when you look at the figure skating team.

And yet, to my knowledge, no medals were taken away from them?

 

[Artemisa]

I think perhaps you are confusing what an idividual athlete does vs what an entire organization/country pushes. An elaborate system to cheat like Russia did is worthy of banishment.
What if it came out that the US had a special building built by in Salt Lake when they were hosting, which allowed their athletes to dope, but they could exchange the bad urine with clean?
No matter what country did that, they should be banned. It’s not fair to the rest of the world’s athletes.

well.... putting the athletes with diseases and with medication is a form of that ... that is USA method

 

[UpNorth]

well.... putting the athletes with diseases and with medication is a form of that ... that is USA method

Any country can go through the same long certification process to ensure that athletes with legit health conditions can take meds.

 

[Tomadeur]

And yet, to my knowledge, no medals were taken away from them?

There were some medals taken away even if in some cases the athletes got their medals back after filing complaints at CAS, because there was not enough proof. And that's one important point. There was enough proof for systematical doping in Russia, but it's far more difficult to proof this for individuals and there's no collective punishment, so some got away from their punishment unfortunately.

 

[SkatingFann1]

The only area I agree with the Eteri fans is that I find it ridiculous that a test from December was made public exactly at the Olympics. Like they could have done it during Europeans. I feel bad that Kamila might be penalized because of HER TEAM.

 

[Artemisa]

Any country can go through the same long certification process to ensure that athletes with legit health conditions can take meds.

So manny ... it's real a rarity

 

[Scott512]

The only area I agree with the Eteri fans is that I find it ridiculous that a test from December was made public exactly at the Olympics. Like they could have done it during Europeans. I feel bad that Kamila might be penalized because of HER TEAM.

That's the 10 million dollar question! If this was a failed drug test from December of 2021 even if it was only just trace amounts who knew about it and what was done about it if anything? Or was the sample kept on purpose until the Olympics to cause havoc among the Russian sports world?

I hope kV has the right people around her to protect her because the Olympics and being a great figure skater is secondary.

 

[sclloyd]

well well well

I saw this scandal by chance and I just had to see what the Eteri apologetics have to say.

And I’m not surprised that many of you think that Kamila shouldn’t be punished, or at the bare minimum DQd from the Olys. Bashed personally? No. She’s in an abusive environment. But if she tests positive then there’s zero fair justification for her to compete. Maybe she didn’t even know, but it’s still unfair to her competitors.

Hopefully they thoroughly investigate all Beijing skaters after this. Anna and Sasha are my faves but cheating is cheating, regardless of who enabled it.

And if it is true they are illegally doping minors they should fully investigate all TT athletes and ban Eteri from coaching.

As for her having a heart condition… if she does then doping is the least of her problems. Doctors give strict orders to suspend professional careers for aerobic sports for conditions like this. Heart medications given to young people, especially the one she was given, are for conditions no 15 year old should have. Definitely not someone who is a world class athlete.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

But if she tests positive then there’s zero fair justification for her to compete. Maybe she didn’t even know, but it’s still unfair to her competitors.

Again, we should wait for more details before jumping to conclusions. There are a wide range of possibilities for failing a drug test. You could test positive for something not performance-enhancing (i.e. marijuana) out of competition, and that should be treated differently than having something in your system that is a PED and detected at the competition. Until we get confirmation what the substance was, how it can impact performance, and the justification for how it ended up in the athlete's sample, I don't think we should really have strong opinions about this. We've heard rumors about these, but nothing official from the IOC/ISU.

 

[Seruleane]

Again, we should wait for more details before jumping to conclusions. There are a wide range of possibilities for failing a drug test. You could test positive for something not performance-enhancing (i.e. marijuana) out of competition, and that should be treated differently than having something in your system that is a PED and detected at the competition. Until we get confirmation what the substance was, how it can impact performance, and the justification for how it ended up in the athlete's sample, I don't think we should really have strong opinions about this. We've heard rumors about these, but nothing official from the IOC/ISU.

The voice of reason! I haven't seen anything official yet, just a lot of hearsay and speculation (most of it from the Russian media). Let's wait and see...

 

[cheerknithanson]

The voice of reason! I haven't seen anything official yet, just a lot of hearsay and speculation (most of it from the Russian media). Let's wait and see...

7 and a half hours to go....ughhhhh

 

[McBibus]

there have already been people who claim that Eteri feeds all her athletes with doping. And not only on this forum - so said, in particular, Dave Leese.
P.S.
Just in case - to be more precise, Dave Leese stated:

hoping it's just a misunderstanding or a problem with a non declared medicinal to treat something let's be extremely clear:
It's unreasonable to think that Valieva doped herself on her own initiative: she had a fantastic season and a gigantic margin over everyone else.
If there is one girl not needing it as a desperate measure it's her.
It is much more reasonable to think this is just the one get caught and that doping is a team practise.
It will be a very big blow to me because pratically every girl I root for is (or was) from that camp, but considering the strict discipline imposed if there is doping it is reasonable to think it's a team affair.

So said, drawing lines before the investigation is over and a defence has been filed it's speculation, but my position is that I will never think it was the girl alone.

 

[Amei]

Again, we should wait for more details before jumping to conclusions. There are a wide range of possibilities for failing a drug test. You could test positive for something not performance-enhancing (i.e. marijuana) out of competition, and that should be treated differently than having something in your system that is a PED and detected at the competition. Until we get confirmation what the substance was, how it can impact performance, and the justification for how it ended up in the athlete's sample, I don't think we should really have strong opinions about this. We've heard rumors about these, but nothing official from the IOC/ISU.

Yes this is all speculation until the ISU or IOC issues something official but the user you quoted said "BUT IF" so there was a distinction there, which i agree if she tested positive for a banned substance and there is no evidence of a contaminated test, the only appropriate action is a suspension even if she took something by accident. The fed certainly appears to owe the alternates for the ladies discipline and the skaters of the team event for ROC an explanation of the situation should the ISU/IOC statement not provide an explanation as to why she was put on the Olympic team and put in the team event with this apparent situation looming.

I hope this is some crazy game of telephone because many skaters are going to get hurt if some of these reports are accurate.

 

[Amei]

Something unrelated to the current drama not sure if anyone else has mentioned this, I have a logical rational reason for the Fed not substituting any skaters for the team event - Vincent's situation, he participated in the team event then tested positive and was forced to WD from the individual he could not be replaced because he did the team event. If any of the athletes test positive over the next week there's a smaller pool of athletes that are ineligible for replacement with an alternate for the individual event.