2021 Internationaux de France: Men's Free Skate

[el henry]

I hope voodoo attacks won't have an impact on Semenenko
And i hope he won't face all the hate Sasha Samarin faced in 2018 GP france. People wishing him to bomb and celebrating him finishing third (as if their country had won world cup) because it meant Brown had beaten him and Cha was in GPF.

Excuse me? Please show me on Goldenskate where Samarin faced "hate"

I never wished Samarin to bomb. I think he seems to be a genuinely humble and fun person, I think I would like talking to him. Particularly in 2018, his skating was b-o-r-i-n-g to me. Talk about jumpa dee jump jump.

I genuinely felt Jason was the better skater in that comp and was happy that the better skater had placed higher. That is far from hate.

ETA: As for the GPF, I don't care. I would love to see Jason's programs again, but whether he makes it or not is not up to him now, and I never ever ever wish for a skater to bomb. I am very happy with two GP medals for Jason.

 

[treeloving]

To me, Yuma seem to be hesitant with jump landing this season; is it because of growing up and body change?

 

[Totentanz]

i am willing to share with you but stay away from my ice dancers

Accepting this if you leave Wamsteeker and Brissaud to me.

 

[yume]

Shun's Lutz edge was called in the short but in the free his Flip edge was called.

It already happened. The calls are not only (!) but also (e), on both jumps. I wonder how someone can have an inside edge lutz and an outside edge flip at the same time.
That's the most surprising technical call in this event. With Brown's 4S not even getting a q.

 

[Arigato]

Be well, Kevin. I just watched your program again. Good job. Get healthy and stay healthy.

 

[figureskatingandrainbows]

To me, Yuma seem to be hesitant with jump landing this season; is it because of growing up and body change?

He didn't grow much (1 cm) but had an injury in August on his right wrist that required a couple weeks with no jumps

 

[ladyjane]

I've just watched all the men, and I was mostly happy with the event as a whole. Happy because Kevin seems to be back on track (beautiful programme), because Romain and Adam skated to their ability, because Andrei had a career best skate (it was superb), because Keegan showed his last outing was not representative of what he is capable of (and no fall), because Dmitri is also back on track (I love his classical style), because Jason is still improving (and his FS moved me again), because Shun might be just a jumping bean but a good one for all that, that Deniss showed a good skate even if it only reached to 7th (but 4th overall), and that speedy Yuma might not have as good a skate as some weeks ago but still showed us something wonderful. What made me unhappy was seeing Artur and Gabriele struggle so much.

 

[MarkinBerkeley]

Not my favourite program from him but a splat-free great skate, I am all astonishment

I actually was in tears after watching that. It must have meant a lot to him.

 

[4everchan]

Accepting this if you leave Wamsteeker and Brissaud to me.

never LOL

 

[pianistliz]

Is it fair to assume that Yuzuru, Yuma, and Shoma will be the ones Japan sends to the Olympics?

IF Hanyu is sufficiently recovered and wants to go, I will be shocked if that's not the team they choose. If Yuzu declines then Shun.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

I don't know what others think but I completely disagree with the final group scoring. Shun Sato is a nice skater with very good quad jumps, but the GOE was overdone for him. The judges get big eyes and start throwing out GOE like candy. Then a skater will start making errors, and the GOE when the same skater completes other elements successfully starts decreasing. The judges are easily swayed by factors having nothing to do with the actual skill of skaters, especially in PCS categories. Sato went about his business rapping off the elements (with a few mistakes in the mix, which detracted from the overall performance). He definitely did not deserve to be scored 4 points away from highly skilled aesthetic skaters like Deniss Vasiljevs and Kevin Aymoz. Sato only deserved in the mid-70s on PCS. And some of the GOE on Sato's quads was overly high. Apparently, this is just a quad race, with skaters' overall reputations also factoring in.

ISU judges do NOT know how to judge performance value. They simply do not, period. Deniss and Jason deserved their positions in the sp. And then Kevin Aymoz came back from whatever angst and injury he's experiencing to set a high bar in the fp, which every guy tried their best to live up to. I didn't have too many issues with the scoring until all the gift GOE and PCS scores given to Sato.

Deniss Vasiljevs held up under the high-bar competitive pressure. Jason did not. I love Jason, but Jason knows he singled and doubled two planned triples. He should NOT get a medal for that. Deniss deserved to be on the podium. The judges were apparently weighing Deniss against his lesser execution of his quad in the fp, and on his past results and reputation, which has not been high re tech value. But Deniss is very much improved on his tech and on his consistency this season, and he should be rewarded for his noticeable improvements. Obviously, the judges only wanted to reward Deniss with 4th place, despite his superior aesthetic talent, and the fact that he completed two consistent performances.

Had Jason simply skated the way he could, without those failed rotations on jumps that are within in his wheelhouse, Jason would have been in position to win the silver medal. Clearly, the way Deniss was scored, without giving him the credit he deserves on composition and interpretation, coupled with the over-scores for Shun Sato on GOE and PCS, Deniss likely still would have been put in fourth place, regardless of how Jason skated. The judges were apparently ruling that quads are boss, and we want to give Jason a break because we rate him higher than Deniss as a polished skater overall. And it was based on rep factors, since Deniss is not known for landing on major podiums.

The judges took some points off of Deniss' initial tech score for some of his landings, which weren't picture perfect, but still his jumps were fully landed, with no URs* (good technique on entry and better landed than what we often see from some over-rated quad jumpers -- I'm not talking about Sato here because he's got excellent technique, but he has a way to go aesthetically; I am more referencing a quadster with questionable technique, such as Daniel Grassl).

Thanks to all the guys for raising the bar at IDF in the fp (despite errors by some), especially thanks to Kevin Aymoz and to Deniss Vasiljevs. Plus, I love Adam Siao Him Fa's new programs. I hope he rocks them out at the Olympics. Jason Brown should wrap this experience up and remember it, because he wants to make the Olympics again, and should he get there, the pressure will be huge. I know he can stay within himself and fully embrace what he can do and perform extraordinarily well, because he has before on numerous occasions. This was not one of them due to those two jump bail-outs.

Deniss should hold his head high, and continue to perform well. I think training with Shoma Uno has been a wonderful benefit for Deniss. The judges need to be taught how to score superb performance value, which Deniss, Jason, and Kevin have (Sato is not in that same ballpark). The judges need to remove their quad blinders.

ETA:
I checked the protocols and reviewed the program. The judges downgraded Deniss' second 3-axel because his blade turned on the ice. It wasn't apparent in real time because it happened quickly and was not that visible in terms of viewing angles. This tells me that the judges went error-hunting on purpose because Deniss does not have the same quad arsenal as others. He also did not fall on his opening quad, so he should have had less points taken off, not half of the points taken off.

 

[Jeanie19]

I don't know what others think but I completely disagree with the final group scoring. Shun Sato is a nice skater with very good quad jumps, but the GOE was overdone for him. The judges get big eyes and start throwing out GOE like candy. Then a skater will start making errors, and the GOE when the same skater completes other elements successfully starts decreasing. The judges are easily swayed by factors having nothing to do with the actual skill of skaters, especially in PCS categories. Sato went about his business rapping off the elements (with a few mistakes in the mix, which detracted from the overall performance). He definitely did not deserve to be scored 4 points away from highly skilled aesthetic skaters like Deniss Vasiljevs and Kevin Aymoz. Sato only deserved in the mid-70s on PCS. And some of the GOE on Satp's quads was overly high. Apparently, this is just a quad race, with skaters' overall reputation also factoring in.

ISU judges do NOT know how to judge performance value. They simply do not, period. Deniss and Jason deserved their positions in the sp. And then Kevin Aymoz came back from whatever angst and injury he's experiencing to set a high bar in the fp, which every guy tried their best to live up to. I didn't have too many issues with the scoring until all the gift GOE and PCS scores given to Sato.

Deniss Vasiljevs held up under the high-bar competitive pressure. Jason did not. I love Jason, but Jason knows he singled and doubled two planned triples. He should NOT get a medal for that. Deniss deserved to be on the podium. The judges were apparently weighing Deniss against his lesser execution of his quad in the fp, and on his past results and reputation, which has not been high re tech value. But Deniss is very much improved on his tech and on his consistency this season, and he should be rewarded for his noticeable improvements. Obviously, the judges only wanted to reward Deniss with 4th place, despite his superior aesthetic talent, and the fact that he completed two consistent performances.

Had Jason simply skated the way he could, without those failed rotations on jumps that are within in his wheelhouse, Jason would have been in position to win the silver medal. Clearly, the way Deniss was scored, without giving him the credit he deserves on composition and interpretation, coupled with the over-scores for Shun Sato on GOE and PCS, Deniss likely still would have been put in fourth place, regardless of how Jason skated. The judges were apparently ruling that quads are boss, and we want to give Jason a break because we rate him higher than Deniss as a polished skater overall. And it was based on rep factors, since Deniss is not known for landing on major podiums.

The judges took some points off of Deniss' initial tech score for some of his landings, which weren't picture perfect, but still his jumps were fully landed, with no URs (good technique on entry and better landed than what we often see from some over-rated quad jumpers -- I'm not talking about Sato here because he's got excellent technique, but he has a way to go aesthetically; I am more referencing a quadster with questionable technique, such as Daniel Grassl).

Thanks to all the guys for raising the bar at IDF in the fp (despite errors by some), especially thanks to Kevin Aymoz and to Deniss Vasiljevs. Plus, I love Adam Siao Him Fa's new programs. I hope he rocks them out at the Olympics. Jason Brown should wrap this experience up and remember it, because he wants to make the Olympics again, and should he get there, the pressure will be huge. I know he can stay within himself and fully embrace what he can do and perform extraordinarily well, because he has before on numerous occasions. This was not one of them due to those two jump bail-outs.

Deniss should hold his head high, and continue to perform well. I think training with Shoma Uno has been a wonderful benefit for Deniss. The judges need to be taught how to score superb performance value, which Deniss, Jason, and Kevin have (Sato is not in that same ballpark). The judges need to remove their quad blinders.

Great post. I love all 4 men, but Deniss deserved to be on the podium.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

It already happened. The calls are not only (!) but also (e), on both jumps. I wonder how someone can have an inside edge lutz and an outside edge flip at the same time.
That's the most surprising technical call in this event. With Brown's 4S not even getting a q.

Hit or miss scoring. The skaters deserve SO MUCH better. Judging in the sport of figure skating is a huge, annoying joke, most of the time. The skaters do all the hard work, and then have to sit in the kiss 'n cry and grit their teeth and cross their fingers, hoping for reasonably fair judging. And even that low bar is usually not reached by the judges. Granted some judges try to be honest and diligent, but mostly they are ruled by a pi$$-poor judging system, reputation scoring, political scoring, quad-blinders, GOE and PCS gift-giving, bad tech calls, missed tech calls, and nonexistent ability to not only judge PCS fairly but to distinguish between the levels of ability or lack thereof in exquisite aesthetic skills and performance value.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Good grief. It's worse than I thought, when I look at the scoring stats in the men's free program. Deniss did not deserve to drop to 7th place in the fp. I would politely question the judges about this scoring if I was Lambiel. I hate to think what Lambiel feels about this and how he'll be able to keep Deniss on track mentally and emotionally. It's not as if Deniss hasn't ever landed a quad. He faltered slightly in buckling a bit during the landing, but it was still landed, and he was strong on everything else. Clearly, this is about the fact that the judges still wish to make quad the king of men's figure skating. Except for Yuma, who had this in the bag, all the guys Deniss was placed behind in the fp, had tech errors in their programs (aside from Mozalev in the fp). Deniss landed everything under enormous pressure in the fp, and he was consistent across two programs. Plus, Deniss should have received +9s on composition and interpretation. His PCS score should have been at least five points higher. Deniss' tech score was 84+ when he finished skating. Then the judges took off about 5 points to bring Deniss behind Messing. That's like the judges feeling they gave Deniss too many tech points in the sp. Deniss earned his scores in the sp, and he was cheated in the fp.

Deniss is a better performer aesthetically than Messing, Aliev, Sato, and Mozalev, and also more mature aesthetically than Yuma (who is a precocious phenom whom the judges will continue to fawn over, just as they did over Shoma Uno when he first came up to seniors). The judges had Deniss rated on PCS as practically tied with Messing, and one point higher than Aliev. Nope, Deniss deserved at least 89 to 90 on PCS, not 85 (Yuma received 90 on PCS, and Deniss is a more seasoned performer with just as good if not better performance abilities). Jason received the highest PCS at 92.72 (I guess okay for the bit of hesitancy in his fp performance). Sometimes the judges don't give Jason sufficient PCS, depending on who the other competitors are. But that scores seems fair enough here, and they could have gone a point or so lower, considering this is not one of Jason's best performances this season.

 

[Tavi...]

Your post was to someone else but I'll comment. I usually don't have a problem with Jason's skating. Until now. Granted, it's merely 5 seconds or so, but it's in high focus since it's the opening pose of the Sinnerman program and the movement that initially ensues. To say it's a bit much is an understatement. I don't care for either of his programs this year but this is excellent:

Jason Brown soars into second place with terrific Nationals short program | NBC Sports

2015 national champion Jason Brown returns to the ice where he claimed his crown five years ago and puts forth a terrific short program, leaving him only beh...

www.youtube.com

That of course was after he joined team Orser. Jason made it clear who was inspiring him after he joined the team and it showed in his performances. He credited Yuzu. The link is to the program where he beat Nathan's PCS. And deservedly so.

I’m sorry if you don’t like Jason’s programs this year. I myself actually thought the original versions of both were stronger and that the changes they made weakened them.

But quite frankly, it’s one thing to criticize the choreography for being too theatrical or whatever you think is wrong with it (I’m speaking generally here, not to you specifically), and quite another to criticize the skater for performing theatrically (if that’s what the choreography calls for) rather than the choreographer.

Beyond that, I think a lot of the people who criticize Jason- and I’m not saying you are one of them - cross a line when they do it. He’s not your favorite skater? Fine, I have no problem with it. But I find it appalling how many people think it’s okay to make personally nasty remarks about someone they’ve never met - whether it’s Jason or anyone else. Just because you’re anonymous and can get away with it doesn’t mean you should. JMO.

 

[Arigato]

I don't know what others think but I completely disagree with the final group scoring. Shun Sato is a nice skater with very good quad jumps, but the GOE was overdone for him. He definitely did not deserve to be scored 4 points away from highly skilled aesthetic skaters like Deniss Vasiljevs and Kevin Aymoz. Sato only deserved in the mid-70s on PCS.

I just watched his FS before posting, then looked up his GOE. Decent GOE on the opening 4Lz, but they zapped him with an electric cattle prod for his other jumps. That's why I'm a bit baffled by your claim. Now, Sato being scored a few points away from Kevin on PCS? That's bizarre. Sato didn't even hit my radar today for any kind of outstanding skating.

 

[Skater Boy]

Yuma kept it together to earn his gold and GP spot. Jason continue to survive on pcs. I am not overly enamoured with schindler's list bu he has wonderful skating skills. Poor Denis fell to nerves. Keegan struggled here again. Honestly he should be able to eventually beat Jason as he has very good skating skills and technically if he can get it together is significanlty etter than Jason but he has that Canadian curse of lacking consistncy. Yay for our silver medallist Japan so strong even without Hanyu. I still can't figure who is Russia's top man.

 

[opruh]

I hope my fave skaters gets inflated pcs too so they can get medals without quads.

 

[el henry]

I hope my fave skaters gets inflated pcs too so they can get medals without quads.

Do you have any favorite skaters without quads?

My favorite skater had a rotated quad today, albeit two footed. Of course, his execution and performance skills are (typically) second to none, so he doesn't get inflated PCS. He correctly got the PCS he earned in the comp today, and earned a bronze medal.

I am happy that he was rightfully recognized for his skills. I hope your favorite skaters are too.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

I just watched his FS before posting, then looked up his GOE. Decent GOE on the opening 4Lz, but they zapped him with an electric cattle prod for his other jumps. That's why I'm a bit baffled by your claim. Now, Sato being scored a few points away from Kevin on PCS? That's bizarre. Sato didn't even hit my radar today for any kind of outstanding skating.

If you didn't watch the entire competition, then you aren't getting the best understanding. Deniss landed all of his jumps without any URs. They took him down on the basis of his not being a repped quad jumper. And they didn't fairly reward Deniss on his performance qualities. Being at 85+ on PCS essentially tied with Messing and Aliev is incorrect. Deniss is a much better overall performer. Yep, I think a bit of nerves in the fp had Deniss landing some of his jumps not as crisp and clean as he did in the sp. But he landed everything under pressure and he performed his program, which is more of a complete program than Sato's and than Mozalev's. Those two guys are good technicians, who still have a way to go in developing compelling aesthetic performance qualities.

In the sp, Sato had mistakes, but he obviously possesses more quads than Jason and Deniss. Although Sato had higher tech scores than Jason and Deniss in the sp (Sato about 5 pts higher tech than Jason, and about 1.38 higher on tech than Deniss), both Jason and Deniss fairly had higher PCS in the sp -- Jason was 7+ pts higher on PCS than Sato in sp; Deniss was 3+ pts higher on PCS than Sato, but Deniss should have been higher than that, as he's much better on performance qualities and aesthetics than Sato. A 3+ point difference isn't accurate.

I have noticed that in the fp, somehow Sato's PCS scores increased, and the judges threw GOE out like candy on Sato's quads I think 2.50 to 2.75 are reasonably high enough, but not over 3.0+ points, which they were generously handing to him. Sato's PCS abilities did not increase overnight, but his PCS scores did. Sato did not skate with more ability in the PCS categories. It was very much the same, but the judges increased his scores, especially on composition and interpretation. Fine to increase slightly on performance execution, but not the other two categories. They also highly increased Sato's transitions score. Did he have better transitions in the fp than in the sp. Not certain, but I doubt it.

To me it seems as if it didn't sit well in some quarters that two wonderful performers who don't have a quad arsenal were fairly rewarded on clean technical programs and exceptional aesthetic abilities, and were thus in 2nd and 3rd position in the sp. In the fp, the judges obviously felt that Deniss was expendable (he doesn't have the same competitive rep as Jason, and Latvia is not a country with any semblance of having a powerful skating federation). If they wanted to scrutinize Deniss with a fine tooth comb and a high intensity microscope, they should have also done that to all the other competitors. They didn't. It was just very convenient that Deniss got placed so far back behind a bunch of quadsters with errors in both of their programs. And also behind Jason who singled and doubled planned triples. Unfair. But, fans are used to accepting whatever the ISU and the judges wish to dish out. I get it.