2021 Worlds: Pairs' Free Skate

[ancientpeas]

All this outrage at M/G winning. They where the only pair to skate two clean programs and have the most difficult content. But lets be real had everyone skated clean the final scores would have been
S/H
T/M
B/K
M/G

M/G took the oppertunity when everyone else fell/URd/step out etc. So s/H, T/M, and B/K only have themselfs to blame and will just have to fix their issues until next time.

yeah.. you can feel (and always feel) how much the judges want to give T/M the marks. They are beautiful and elegant and what pairs skating should be (and in so many ways certainly closer to the archetype than S/H) and yet there is always something that gets in the way.

Part of me really hopes they come back next season and knock our socks off. If they can get on the Russian team for the Team event they will almost certainly have a gold medal)

 

[Vilord]

S/H didn't do bad today, they delivered their program and they leaded the SP. The final gap is tiny but the PCS is so close between them and a Russian junior pair.

Sure they didnt do bad but they lost a lot of points on underrotated jumps as well as having significantly lower BV compared to what M/G have and what they themselfs have had before.

 

[Lota]

I was thinking what the situation at Moskvina's team was reminding me of and just recalled - Papadakis/Cizeron and Virtue/Moir in Ice Dance. One team was with the coaches for a longer time and BAM! new team arrives and steals the thunder (not that V/M were a new team, just, you know, new to the training camp). And just in time for the Olympic season too Well, at least the overall situation in Pairs is better in that there are several teams that could theoretically win, rather than just two like in Ice Dance for the last... God knows how many Olympics and Championships (first D/W vs V/M, then P/C vs V/M) Anyway, may all the Pairs rest well and prepare peacefully for the next season and not receive any hate and nasty comments

 

[ancientpeas]

LAST TIME: M/G are NOT A JUNIOR PAIR. They are competing in seniors. Please stop this erroneous assertion

 

[Flying Feijoa]

The UR is already fully deducted from S/H's score. And clearly S/H has bigger throws, but it's not reflected in the scores.
Remember S/H only loss less then 2 points in total finally, which actually should be covered by PCS. However, it's all about Russians.

Base value though. 3S-1Eu-3S is worth more than 3T-2T-2T. And it's not just UR causing GOE/base value of S/H's SBS jumps to drop, M/G also had more height and distance.

As for the throw jumps, S/H have decent throws but they're not *bigger* than M/G's. Big in proportion to their own height, yes, but in terms of absolute height/distance, no.

 

[apgold]

I think the standings were pretty fair, actually. I think M/G they deserved the win - they were the best technically. I'm kind of over Queen programs at this point, but they were into the performance and I like their spirit.

I wanted S/H to win because I just love them, but Sui had a few UR issues on the SBS. I'm also happy I won't have to hear "The Writings on the Wall" ("I've been here before.." yes we have) anymore from B/K - I am looking for a new program from them. Yes S/H reused "Rain in Your Black Eyes" but we haven't seen them since last year so it didn't feel so repetitive.

 

[ancientpeas]

I was thinking what the situation at Moskvina's team was reminding me of and just recalled - Papadakis/Cizeron and Virtue/Moir in Ice Dance. One team was with the coaches for a longer time and BAM! new team arrives and steals the thunder (not that V/M were a new team, just, you know, new to the training camp). And just in time for the Olympic season too Well, at least the overall situation in Pairs is better in that there are several teams that could theoretically win, rather than just two like in Ice Dance for the last... God knows how many Olympics and Championships (first D/W vs V/M, then P/C vs V/M) Anyway, may all the Pairs rest well and prepare peacefully for the next season and not receive any hate and nasty comments

More Davis and White and Virtue and Moir to me. By the time V/M go to Montreal they are already Olympic champions and considered great. M/G and B/K are incredibly talented but I wouldn't say they are great yet.

 

[cathlen]

And I'm gonna get in trouble but I don't care.

Are you S/H fans gonna take a leaf out of the Yuna Kim fan's book?

Will M/G have to deal with SIX YEARS OF CONSTANT ABUSE for bearing your precious pair like Adelina Sotnikova?

Have the death threats started yet?


Nothing would surprised me anymore.

Because it's only allowed for some? Like God forbid you think such and such a skater is better than this other one. God forbid you enjoy something different from S/H because their PCS is the only kind that matters right?

If you're not S/H you can just get f'ed.

And you can complain about PCS scoring without making disgusting comments like M/G have the worst components of the event. That's a bald face lie and you know it.

AHA. Do you even read the thread? I am actually happy for M/G. And why do you throw all the S/H fans into one bag? I didn't like even that comment and yet you're acting like I was writing it. Calm down, and ignore the trolls. And for example, I personally am not fan of Jason Brown. You're never going to find me cheering for him. That does not mean I disagree with him earning high PCS for his performance level. I have no problem with him earning the same PCS as Yuzuru because his level of performance was great, maybe even better. I have eyes (and glasses) to see. Btw. T/M has still more Championship golds than my faves, Stolbova & Klimov, but unlike you, I didn't blame fans or other teams for this....

 

[SNAKSuyun]

I can say. Especially compared to the current World Champions M/G, who skated two clean programs and if it wasn't for errors of others, wouldn't have won. I think that's kind of simple math.

PCS should have been different. I'd have S/H around 75+, but I don't feel like it would be fair for them to win with errors in three jumping passes on the competition. They are better in may categories of the PCS, and certainly have some better elements, but I don't think they were it this time. You can disagree, and that's fine.

I think that's the thing, I'd have been fine with a world in which S/H gets 75 something (especially more points in eg performance) and the final gap between M/G and S/H ends up being less than a point, kinda like the gap between S/M and S/H at Pyeongchang. (Coincidentally, S/H also messed up SBS jumps there too after a lead in the short.) M/G keeps their victory, S/H keeps their lead in PCS in the field. Would have been great.

 

[Fluture]

S/H didn't do bad today, they delivered their program and they leaded the SP. The final gap is tiny but the PCS is so close between them and a Russian junior pair.

Can you stop calling them that? I‘m unhappy S/H lost, too, and privately think they should have won but that‘s just disrespectful. They delivered and the judges did with it what they did. Not their fault at all. On the contrary, they deserve a lot of respect.

 

[chasingneverland]

The difference is small. But in time when Boikova/Kozlovski alreaday gained their junior silver Mishina weren't even paired with Galliamov yet.

Yes, but Mishina DID already have a junior silver (winning the year before B/K) and won JGPF that year. So it's not like she was a completely unknown skater then.

 

[ancientpeas]

AHA. Do you even read the thread? I am actually happy for M/G. And why do you throw all the S/H fans into one bag? I didn't like even that comment and yet you're acting like I was writing it. Calm down, and ignore the trolls. And for example, I personally am not fan of Jason Brown. You're never going to find me cheering for him. That does not mean I disagree with him earning high PCS for his performance level. I have no problem with him earning the same PCS as Yuzuru because his level of performance was great, maybe even better. I have eyes (and glasses) to see. Btw. T/M has still more Championship golds than my faves, Stolbova & Klimov, but unlike you, I didn't blame fans or other teams for this....

I'm actually horrified more that you don't love Jason Brown. We might be fighting now.

 

[litenkyckling]

More Davis and White and Virtue and Moir to me. By the time V/M go to Montreal they are already Olympic champions and considered great. M/G and B/K are incredibly talented but I wouldn't say they are great yet.

I have a feeling it will end up like that for these two - and I think it will similarly mean people come down on one side and we will all argue over it every season with no one ever being 100% correct!

 

[ancientpeas]

I have a feeling it will end up like that for these two - and I think it will similarly mean people come down on one side and we will all argue over it every season with no one ever being 100% correct!

So something for me really to look forward to then (sarcasm font enabled)

 

[saturdaysun]

I can say. Especially compared to the current World Champions M/G, who skated two clean programs and if it wasn't for errors of others, wouldn't have won. I think that's kind of simple math.

PCS should have been different. I'd have S/H around 75+, but I don't feel like it would be fair for them to win with errors in three jumping passes on the competition. They are better in may categories of the PCS, and certainly have some better elements, but I don't think they were it this time. You can disagree, and that's fine.

I do disagree. Jumps are not everything in pairs the way they are in singles. They're not even the highest-scored elements. M/G were gifted in GOEs in many elements, including throws, as discussed before, and their lifts, which are more important than jumps. So... an UR on a jump vs lack of flow and speed in a lift... All this before we even begin to talk about PCS.

 

[cathlen]

I'm actually horrified more that you don't love Jason Brown. We might be fighting now.

Sorry, not sorry. I prefer Brezina and Han Yan

 

[Flying Feijoa]

I think S/H also need some changes. Maybe skating to some upbeat music. Something different in their programmes and the elements, whatever that is. Watching them this time i felt as i already saw all of that in the past. Nothing new, just same old, same old. While M/G looked as a dish of breath air comparing to them. I bet some judges thought the same (with both S/H and T/M), and you need to reward creativity (as one of the defining parts of artistic impression) in the elements/components-composition after all.

To be fair they had understandable reasons for recycling programmes (Han's surgery, difficulty working with their usual choreographer, no real international season). But I agree with you, this is the 3rd season with Rain In Your Black Eyes (the music which incidentally I dislike, but was able to overlook the first time round). Would have preferred them to recycle their Worlds 2017 LP instead, which only got performed twice. The more you perform a programme, the more it invites comparisons with past performances. In my eyes they didn't perform the SP as well as in Worlds 2017, nor the LP as in Worlds 2019.

 

[chasingneverland]

I was thinking what the situation at Moskvina's team was reminding me of and just recalled - Papadakis/Cizeron and Virtue/Moir in Ice Dance. One team was with the coaches for a longer time and BAM! new team arrives and steals the thunder (not that V/M were a new team, just, you know, new to the training camp). And just in time for the Olympic season too Well, at least the overall situation in Pairs is better in that there are several teams that could theoretically win, rather than just two like in Ice Dance for the last... God knows how many Olympics and Championships (first D/W vs V/M, then P/C vs V/M) Anyway, may all the Pairs rest well and prepare peacefully for the next season and not receive any hate and nasty comments

That's completely different. That was V/M - OGM/OSM and winners of pretty much everything. That literally sent thundershocks through the ice dance world - not the least of which was because they weren't a talented unknown couple, they had won everything and had only been gone two years =. Really only Yuna Kim's return or Aliona's return are comparable. And V/M came back the season before the Olympic season (not the Olympic season) and won everything that year.

 

[ancientpeas]

Sorry, not sorry. I prefer Brezina and Han Yan

Han Yan I am a huge fan of. I think Brezina gets the judges by using the good ole "Le Sexy" ploy. I root for him too.
But the Jason Brown thing.. it's horrifying. I'm horrified. THE HORROR!!

 

[Vilord]

yeah.. you can feel (and always feel) how much the judges want to give T/M the marks. They are beautiful and elegant and what pairs skating should be (and in so many ways certainly closer to the archetype than S/H) and yet there is always something that gets in the way.

Part of me really hopes they come back next season and knock our socks off. If they can get on the Russian team for the Team event they will almost certainly have a gold medal)

I have a feeling next year will be the last season for T/M (possibly also for S/H) they have been doing this so long and are now getting beaten by the younger russian teams on rotation.
I hope they will give us one last hurrah and end on a high note with finaly winning either Olympics or worlds (I will be fine with either and S/H can win the other) but knowing them and their track record I wont keep my hopes up....