2022 World Figure Skating Championships: Men's Free Skate | Page 54 | Golden Skate

2022 World Figure Skating Championships: Men's Free Skate

4everchan

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 7, 2015
Country
Martinique
Exactly @Jeanie19. I think Keegan was really worried about losing two spots when he saw his scores. Fortunately for Canada's men, Roman Sadovsky skated well enough to place 9th overall.

@mrrice, with two entries for a country, if one of the entries places in the top ten, then two spots are secured.
except this is not accurate
Roman finished 12th overall.
WIth two entries for a country, one needs to finish 10 if the other one doesn' t make the free... as not making the free earns 18 points.
Here they both made the Free, so they needed still a total of 28, but the lowest score a skater can get in the free is 16... So Roman's 12th place was enough.
 

Cilla70

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 20, 2022
I also remember that Shoma was crying at his very first World Championship for disappointment.
I think todays result was an eye opener that will aid Ila for future competitions. Losing hurts even more when those around you re-enforces the good and not the bad. He should spend sometime talking to Nathan who had the weight of his country on his shoulder at the 2018 Olympics.
 

BlissfulSynergy

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 1, 2020
Country
Olympics
The judges were 100% onboard with Malinin. Before the competition, I had his PCS at 38-39 for a clean SP and 76-79 for a clean FS. This is not high PCS, but his PCS didn’t need to be high to get on the podium. He would’ve accomplished that on tech. However, he broke 40 in the SP and so I figured he’ll score low 80s if clean in the free. But the judges gave him something like an 83 for a skate with several errors. The planned second-half 4T+1Eu+3S became a downgraded +REP, which cost him at least 15 points. That is what buried him. We’re not talking stepouts and hands-down here. The judges can’t do anything about downgrades and a fall. That’s on the technical panel and the panel was correct. The judges, however, were with Malinin the whole way. They gave him the GOES he deserves and too high PCS.
I don't argue with the PCS that Malinin got. I'm not saying that he didn't deserve to go down in the standings. And 9th isn't unreasonable for Ilia. I just think it doesn't seem as fair, when you look at the other guys messing up and not dropping as much. Sure Shoma & Yuma are good, but they aren't Gods.

Yes, the judges love skaters with quads and they will be rewarded. Still, there is unfairness based on country status and rep. In Ilia's case, as I said, he's new to seniors and has more to learn, so he'll be more harshly judged. I agree that when downgrades happen, the judges have to score accordingly. The judges didn't give Ilia 83 tech. He received 81+ tech because he had enough clean content to warrant that tech score. With skating completely clean, he would have scored high 90s, low 100s on tech. So 81+ is not generous, when he would have scored 20+ higher without mistakes. What's generous is throwing a ton of high PCS marks at the top favored skaters because the perception is that they deserve high PCS. Yuma, not unlike Ilia has much more to learn presentation-wise. But the judges feel that since Yuma is such a technical prodigy with soft knees and a lightness over the ice, along with quads, that he can do no wrong and deserves humongous PCS with mistakes. Shoma's PCS should have come down slightly too. They were both going to win anyway.

I don't have big complaints about Ilia's placement. It's just in comparison with the unevenness of scoring in other instances. This coupled with not scoring Deniss and Kevin fairly on PCS, and with not giving Camden more points in both programs. As I said earlier, I know they don't particularly trust Camden's consistency, so he'll have to prove he can skate brilliantly and clean consistently. Meanwhile, based on their talent alone, skaters like Shoma and Yuma tend to get spotted a few mistakes regardless. And they have PCS cushions to rely on.

PCS scores are what they are, and they're hardly ever judged accurately or fairly.
 

BlissfulSynergy

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 1, 2020
Country
Olympics
Thanks for the link to Roman's fp @siberia82. I hope a link to Camden's program gets posted to YouTube.

I'm glad that Roman got back into a better groove, and ended up salvaging Canada's two spots for men.

Here's a link to the small medals ceremony and press conference for men's fp:

ETA:

Wow, what these guys said seems so OTT. Vincent is really saying that he's still struggling with what happened at the Olympics, because he couldn't compete in the men's singles event. He said that he called his coach and good friends to say he felt his whole career was a waste, and that he had to find motivation to even come to Worlds. That just seems so over-involved and self-indulgent. But I'm not at athlete, so I guess I shouldn't judge.

Shoma even said that he isn't sure what motivates him, and that he has trouble skating for himself. He said that he wants to win, but somehow competing is hard, and that his main goal is competing well for his coach, which sounds somewhat strange. He also said he doesn't know what his goal is, except to attain more growth. He's not really motivated by the Olympics. Shoma sounds like he still needs to mature. I think Stephane offers good guidance for Shoma.

Yuma's response sounded reasonable, that he had struggled earlier this season. I think that's because of over-expectations coming from everyone around him. Yuma also recognizes that he didn't skate that well, and he wants to improve next season. And he's a two-time World medalist. It's good that he realizes he got those medals with mistakes.
 
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BlissfulSynergy

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 1, 2020
Country
Olympics
except this is not accurate
Roman finished 12th overall.
WIth two entries for a country, one needs to finish 10 if the other one doesn' t make the free... as not making the free earns 18 points.
Here they both made the Free, so they needed still a total of 28, but the lowest score a skater can get in the free is 16... So Roman's 12th place was enough.

Thanks for the explanation of how that calculation works. When I mentioned Roman's placement, I forgot that I was looking at the results screen for the free skate, where Roman was 9th. My mistake, he was 12th overall.
 

YagsFan

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 25, 2010
Yeah this has always happened to Shoma. Behind Yuzu's shadow and now being tread on by Lambiel but he doesn't know anything different so is ok with it. But no what Lambiel did there is not cool he should control himself.
Oh, come on! Who doesn't want an exuberant, happy coach after becoming a World Champion?!! Do you remember the scene at the OLympics when the Chinese pair won----there was a group mash the size of a small town, with just about anybody who was anybody in Chinese pair skating! There are moments to be reserved and moments to let it go. Also, I noticed that Shoma was very emotional at that moment; he seems to be kind of a shy type, so maybe he wouldn't think it bad that someone was blocking him from view for just a short bit of time. At any rate, I don't think he would think Lambiel was "treading on him".
 

treblemakerem

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 24, 2014
Wow, what these guys said seems so OTT. Vincent is really saying that he's still struggling with what happened at the Olympics, because he couldn't compete in the men's singles event. He said that he called his coach and good friends to say he felt his whole career was a waste, and that he had to find motivation to even come to Worlds. That just seems so over-involved and self-indulgent. But I'm not at athlete, so I guess I shouldn't judge.
It’s really not. He trained his entire life for that moment and ended up spending it isolated in a room not getting to experience any of it. That would be an extremely traumatic experience. Skating is his life and he has sacrificed so much for it. I can’t even imagine what that would be like and how to get over it. I’m so glad he won this medal. He deserves it and should be proud.
 

BlissfulSynergy

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 1, 2020
Country
Olympics
It’s really not. He trained his entire life for that moment and ended up spending it isolated in a room not getting to experience any of it. That would be an extremely traumatic experience. Skating is his life and he has sacrificed so much for it. I can’t even imagine what that would be like and how to get over it. I’m so glad he won this medal. He deserves it and should be proud.
I get it. But Vincent got to go to the Olympics in 2018, and he skated extremely well. At one point over this quad when he was attending Brown University, Vincent thought about quitting skating. So, again it's not for me to judge but I think Shoma and Vincent in particular seem to have very sensitive, hard to figure out personalities. Part of it for Shoma, as someone was saying, is his shyness. Plus, being adulated as a skater from such a young age. That's kind of like child actors who are fawned on by adults, and begin to lose a sense of self, or don't gain a sense of who they are and what they want because of being caught up in something all-enveloping that they are prodigies at, when they are very young and their personalities, experiences, and perceptions are still developing.

It also seems like both Shoma and Vincent have trouble figuring out why they are doing what they're doing and if they want to be doing it. And they get caught up in feelings of failure. From what Shoma said, it appears to me that he may have been caught up in competing for the federation, for fans, for his former coaches, maybe for his family, and he just lost a sense of himself (ETA: after he had initially been inspired to emulate Dai Takahashi). Vincent maybe was competing to please an authority figure. This is not to ignore that both guys probably enjoy skating and do want to win. But being young and sensitive, they've had difficulty dealing with outside pressures, and with understanding themselves.

Shoma was really in a bad funk for awhile. And working with Stephane Lambiel has rejuvenated his skating career and his mindset. But he's still growing as a young person. Yuma seems much more grounded, well-rounded and self-motivated than Shoma and Vincent. Yet, Yuma is still very young and growing mentally, physically, emotionally.
 
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BlissfulSynergy

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 1, 2020
Country
Olympics
I think todays result was an eye opener that will aid Ila for future competitions. Losing hurts even more when those around you re-enforces the good and not the bad. He should spend sometime talking to Nathan who had the weight of his country on his shoulder at the 2018 Olympics.
Yes, it's a learning experience for Ilia. Seemingly, Ilia's parents try to balance being coaches with being parents. I don't get a sense that they're pushing him, though I could be wrong. Just from watching interviews with Ilia himself, he seems self-motivated, ambitious, confident, and very happy about skating and accomplishing goals in skating. Still, he's young, and he'll obviously go through a lot that when you're young it's not easy to contemplate or put into perspective. His parents and coaches will be there to help guide him. I believe that Ilia will be taking some instruction from Raf in California too.
 

msteach3

Medalist
Joined
Mar 28, 2013
Country
United-States
I get it. But Vincent got to go to the Olympics in 2018, and he skated extremely well. At one point over this quad when he was attending Brown University, Vincent thought about quitting skating. So, again it's not for me to judge but I think Shoma and Vincent in particular seem to have very sensitive, hard to figure out personalities. Part of it for Shoma, as someone was saying, is his shyness. Plus, being adulated as a skater from such a young age. That's kind of like child actors who are fawned on by adults, and begin to lose a sense of self, or don't gain a sense of who they are and what they want because of being caught up in something all-enveloping that they are prodigies at, when they are very young and their personalities, experiences, and perceptions are still developing.

It also seems like both Shoma and Vincent have trouble figuring out why they are doing what they're doing and if they want to be doing it. And they get caught up in feelings of failure. From what Shoma said, it appears to me that he may have been caught up in competing for the federation, for fans, for his former coaches, maybe for his family, and he just lost a sense of himself (ETA: after he had initially been inspired to emulate Dai Takahashi). Vincent maybe was competing to please an authority figure. This is not to ignore that both guys probably enjoy skating and do want to win. But being young and sensitive, they've had difficulty dealing with outside pressures, and with understanding themselves.

Shoma was really in a bad funk for awhile. And working with Stephane Lambiel has rejuvenated his skating career and his mindset. But he's still growing as a young person. Yuma seems much more grounded, well-rounded and self-motivated than Shoma and Vincent. Yet, Yuma is still very young and growing mentally, physically, emotionally.
Parents and their approach make a huge difference in a young skater’s development. The answer to why some people seem more sensitive and struggle vs those who are more grounded can usually be found here.
 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
... ETA:

Wow, what these guys said seems so OTT. Vincent is really saying that he's still struggling with what happened at the Olympics, because he couldn't compete in the men's singles event. He said that he called his coach and good friends to say he felt his whole career was a waste, and that he had to find motivation to even come to Worlds. That just seems so over-involved and self-indulgent. But I'm not at athlete, so I guess I shouldn't judge. ...

I would say that none of us should judge any athlete who is struggling to come to terms with a major adversity.

Was Jason Brown "over-involved and self-indulgent" when he declined 2018 Worlds because he was struggling with missing the 2018 Olympic team?
My answer would be No.
Jason decided that it was better for his emotional recovery not to go to 2018 Worlds, even though as first alternate, he had right of first refusal after Rippon stepped aside.
Some of Jason's own words (from May 2018) about his struggles at that time:
"I was shattered, but I tried to keep the pieces glued together until Four Continents (where he finished third behind Jin and eventual Olympic silver medalist Shoma Uno of Japan)," Brown said. "After that event, I broke. I needed to call someone every day (usually his dad) to get me out of bed. The funk would have lasted much longer if it hadn't been for how incredible my family and friends were."​

I found it easy to not judge Jason.
And for me, it is just as easy to not judge Vincent.
 
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Jaana

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Country
Finland
Well, Malinin should remember perhaps, that also Ilia Kulik at 17 (as European and JW champion) became 9th at his first Worlds in 1995...

Malinin´s jumps were spectacular until the first mistake and he had a very hard fall. It was a good achievement that all Americans were among top 9! I was very glad for Zhou´s bronze medal and Pulkinen skated really well in this competition.

Congratulations to all medalists!!!
 
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Arigato

Medalist
Joined
Nov 13, 2021
Country
Olympic
He could have easily politely walked by and said excuse me. No, not him. Yes, cigar.

Only an ass would have done that to Shoma. Under no circumstances do you walk in front of or behind anyone on camera during their interview. As for Shoma, he later laughed about it. Thankfully some have a sense of humor.
 
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