2023-24 Russian Grand Prix - Stage 3 - Krasnoyarsk

[AlexBreeze]

First medal for M/U in two years!

 

[anonymoose_au]

I'm watching but distractedly. Very much looking forward to Sasha and Ivan though.

Katsalapov liked it.

Katsalapoooov! Is he commentating or just in the audience? I saw Viktoria there the other day.

In other news I finally solved my stream problem...set my VPN to Russia. Duh.

 

[AlexBreeze]

Katsalapoooov! Is he commentating or just in the audience? I saw Viktoria there the other day.

He was in the audience yesterday. Today he is commentating.

 

[AlexBreeze]

Quick observations:
Shanaeva/Drozd got lower score than Khavronina/Narizhny. I think it's wrong to compare different judging panels but still.
Mironova/Ustenko became closer to the top teams especially in the FD. And it's considering there some small mistakes.

 

[niks]

They did it! They did it! No big mistakes! I don't remember when their FD had all the elements green last time.

They had a great performance, I liked their program and it was skated with grace and flow

 

[AlexBreeze]

Shevchenko/Ezhlov got deductions for the music requirements. Not sure I've ever seen that.

 

[Skating91]

What is the music they use when presenting the medals?

 

[Skating91]

Who is this woman presenting the medals to the dancers? She just whacked Shanaeva on the back lol

 

[thatdarncat]

Who is this woman presenting the medals to the dancers? She just whacked Shanaeva on the back lol

Elena Tchaikovskaia

 

[Skatelife]

If you do a Madonna program and wear glitter you can underrotate 7 times and the judges not call any of them

.. and get your personal best, I don't really believe that international judges are stricter, maybe with the lower ranks

 

[Jumping_Bean]

.. and get your personal best, I don't really believe that international judges are stricter, maybe with the lower ranks

That might be as it is, but as I said GP scoring is not what the Russian girls will face when Russians return to the international stage.
Did you see the scoring at JGP Linz? And the low GOE given at the Challenger events? That kind of scoring is what they'll have to face, not the GP scoring.

And maybe we see them as the best in the World, but for international judges, they will be fresh faces, for the most part. Skaters like Adeliia, Nastya Zinina, Sofia A. and Sofia M. have been to two international competitions, at this point already over 2 years ago, and other top skaters have been to none, like Alina Gorbacheva.

Apart from that, Russia will only have two JGP spots, plus one Jr Worlds spot, so most Jr-age skaters will be left stranded without even having a chance of getting a Season's Best score, so if Russia were to be readmitted next season, of all of the skaters turning Senior-eligible in the Olympic season, only three at the very most would even have any chance of qualifying for the Grand Prix. That's not a lot either, is it?

 

[yume]

That might be as it is, but as I said GP scoring is not what the Russian girls will face when Russians return to the international stage.
Did you see the scoring at JGP Linz? And the low GOE given at the Challenger events? That kind of scoring is what they'll have to face, not the GP scoring.

And maybe we see them as the best in the World, but for international judges, they will be fresh faces, for the most part. Skaters like Adeliia, Nastya Zinina, Sofia A. and Sofia M. have been to two international competitions, at this point already over 2 years ago, and other top skaters have been to none, like Alina Gorbacheva.

Apart from that, Russia will only have two JGP spots, plus one Jr Worlds spot, so most Jr-age skaters will be left stranded without even having a chance of getting a Season's Best score, so if Russia were to be readmitted next season, of all of the skaters turning Senior-eligible in the Olympic season, only three at the very most would even have any chance of qualifying for the Grand Prix. That's not a lot either, is it?

Even the tradionally overscoring Lombardia trophy was stingy this year? I don't remember challengers being that stingy aside US and autumn classic, at least with top skaters from big feds.

True that the most of skaters will have to wait another year to compete in GPs, euros, worlds. I already feel for those who will be left at home, but i feel the most for the one from each discipline who will be sent out with the mission to get back the max 3 spots. I don't know how it works for the max 18 spots of GPs, i don't if worlds result counts for the max spots. But fed can at least send 9 skaters to challengers who will try to get on SB list. I know it is not the only criteria to get selected but it's already something.

The pressure could be overwhelming.

 

[Skating91]

That might be as it is, but as I said GP scoring is not what the Russian girls will face when Russians return to the international stage.
Did you see the scoring at JGP Linz? And the low GOE given at the Challenger events? That kind of scoring is what they'll have to face, not the GP scoring.

It becomes absurd if someone like Valieva, Petrosian, Akatieva (her career skating ultra-si might be over) skate clean content with multiple quads, multiple 3-3 combos and maybe even triple axel, are getting components in the low 60s similar to Gubanova. We know they have quite intricate programs too. Loena got 70 PCS for the Madonna skate, I'm not saying this is incorrect in any way, but if Valieva came up afterwards skating something similar to her I See Red program (if it were a free skate) she would never score lower components. The sport would lose all credibility if they did.

Still, even with Loena having a 7-8 point PCS advantage over a Russian girl with quads (which would never happen maybe a couple points at worst), the huge base value on their programs would eliminate any of this disadvantage. The top Russian girls are better than anyone at rotating their jumps consistently.

 

[Jumping_Bean]

Even the tradionally overscoring Lombardia trophy was stingy this year? I don't remember challengers being that stingy aside US and autumn classic, at least with top skaters from big feds.

True that the most of skaters will have to wait another year to compete in GPs, euros, worlds. I already feel for those who will be left at home, but i feel the most for the one from each discipline who will be sent out with the mission to get back the max 3 spots. I don't know how it works for the max 18 spots of GPs, i don't if worlds result counts for the max spots. But fed can at least send 9 skaters to challengers who will try to get on SB list. I know it is not the only criteria to get selected but it's already something.

The pressure could be overwhelming.

Lombardia was definitely not generous this season, at least not for most women. Chaeyeon for example got a 63.27 for her SP, with the only errors in the protocol being a 3Lz+3Tq, 3F! and LSp3 - Lower than at Worlds where she had a really iffy landing on the 3Lz and an under-rotation & bad landing on the 3F+3T combo.

For at least one guaranteed GP spot, a skater has to be in the top 12 at Worlds (Note that Russia only has one spot for both Jr and Sr Worlds), top 3 at Jr Worlds (and moving to Seniors the following year), be in the top 24 in World Standing/Season's best scores. "Come-back skaters" (placed in top 6 in the last 10 years) get spots too. The rest are filled by the host skaters, and skaters in the top 75 on the Season's best scores list. If skaters withdraw, winners of Challengers in the running season can also be considered. however from this season on they are added to the bottom of the replacement list (In women's this basically means it is impossible for them to be picked, as the replacing skater has to be picked from the top 10 of the replacement list).

Keep in mind with Challenger that only those senior-eligible can be sent to them (i.e. the youngest gen is that of Adeliia and Sofia Muravieva, anyone younger cannot go until the Olympic season).

It becomes absurd if someone like Valieva, Petrosian, Akatieva (her career skating ultra-si might be over) skate clean content with multiple quads, multiple 3-3 combos and maybe even triple axel, are getting components in the low 60s similar to Gubanova. We know they have quite intricate programs too. Loena got 70 PCS for the Madonna skate, I'm not saying this is incorrect in any way, but if Valieva came up afterwards skating something similar to her I See Red program (if it were a free skate) she would never score lower components. The sport would lose all credibility if they did.

Still, even with Loena having a 7-8 point PCS advantage over a Russian girl with quads (which would never happen maybe a couple points at worst), the huge base value on their programs would eliminate any of this disadvantage. The top Russian girls are better than anyone at rotating their jumps consistently.

The thing is, most of them would not be meeting her at all in competition. Sofia Akatieva is too young for Seniors anyway, and Kamila and Adeliia are not eligible for the GP, plus only one of the two could be sent to Worlds, and Loena hasn't done any Challengers this season and might not do so next season either, so judges would never have to compare them directly

 

[Mathematician]

(i.e. the youngest gen is that of Adeliia and Sofia Muravieva, anyone younger cannot go until the Olympic season)

Muravieva is 2006 and Petrosian 07

 

[Jumping_Bean]

Muravieva is 06 and Petrosian 07

And they are still the same gen in skating. Mura was born in the second half of 2006, Adeliia in the first half of 2007, meaning they both turned junior and senior in the same season, while Kat (born in the second half of 2007) is officially a year younger for skating purposes.

 

[Pairluv]

Even the tradionally overscoring Lombardia trophy was stingy this year? I don't remember challengers being that stingy aside US and autumn classic, at least with top skaters from big feds.

True that the most of skaters will have to wait another year to compete in GPs, euros, worlds. I already feel for those who will be left at home, but i feel the most for the one from each discipline who will be sent out with the mission to get back the max 3 spots. I don't know how it works for the max 18 spots of GPs, i don't if worlds result counts for the max spots. But fed can at least send 9 skaters to challengers who will try to get on SB list. I know it is not the only criteria to get selected but it's already something.

The pressure could be overwhelming.

That's exactly the pressure Sotnikova and Tuk were under as well as Kovtun prior to the 2014 Olympics. And then Lipnitskia scooped Tuk and went instead. If they are allowed in for the 2024-2025 Worlds, the pressure to get 3 spots in ladies and pairs will be heavy. Less so for men and dance as those odds are not as good. They'll be hoping for two and may have to settle for one.

 

[Skatelife]

From my pov If Russians are admitted to worlds any woman and any pair sent to worlds will get the 3 spots back. Unless a total melt down. In woman the only competition is with Kaori.

 

[Jumping_Bean]

From my pov If Russians are admitted to worlds any woman and any pair sent to worlds will get the 3 spots back. Unless a total melt down. In woman the only competition is with Kaori.

In pairs, they are likely to send seasoned teams like M/G, or B/K, who I think are unlikely to experience a total meltdown, but in women's, it might be a completely different story. The only skaters on the national team with WCh experience are Sasha, Anya and Liza, and all three are currently taking a sabbatical and might not be interested in returning. Kami and Adeliia can be a bit nervy at times, and it would be their World Champion debut, and particularly for Adeliia a very new experience (she's never even been to Jr Worlds).

That's exactly the pressure Sotnikova and Tuk were under as well as Kovtun prior to the 2014 Olympics. And then Lipnitskia scooped Tuk and went instead. If they are allowed in for the 2024-2025 Worlds, the pressure to get 3 spots in ladies and pairs will be heavy. Less so for men and dance as those odds are not as good. They'll be hoping for two and may have to settle for one.

And, if they only can go to next season's Worlds, they can actually at most get 2 spots for the Olympics under the current rules (One skater skating the FS at Worlds, another confirming the second spot at Nebelhorn Trophy, where entry is limited to one per country).

 

[yume]

From my pov If Russians are admitted to worlds any woman and any pair sent to worlds will get the 3 spots back. Unless a total melt down. In woman the only competition is with Kaori.

Since 2nd place is enough to get the three spots, i would say yes. There are multiple skaters/pairs able to achieve a 230+ score.
Unless, judges decide to give them high 50s/low 60s PCS. Which would be purely political.

In pairs, they are likely to send seasoned teams like M/G, or B/K, who I think are unlikely to experience a total meltdown, but in women's, it might be a completely different story. The only skaters on the national team with WCh experience are Sasha, Anya and Liza, and all three are currently taking a sabbatical and might not be interested in returning. Kami and Adeliia can be a bit nervy at times, and it would be their World Champion debut, and particularly for Adeliia a very new experience (she's never even been to Jr Worlds).

Valieva never had a meltdown, aside that FS at olys. When she does mistakes, it's usually one per program / per competition. And you left out Muravieva who not only has good jumps with good technique but also strong SS and performance skills. I would like to see a judge give her 62 PCS while Speedy Gonzales would be at 75 PCS. She can make a mistake but never had a meltdown.