2023 4CC: Women | Thoughts

[gsk8]

Haein Lee catapults to gold at Four Continents

2023 Four Continents Figure Skating Championships Women’s Free Skate South Korea’s Haein Lee catapulted to gold at the 2023 Four Continents Figure Skating Championships on Friday night. The defending silver medalist […]

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What a dramatic conclusion to the women's event!

Levito is so young and I hope she gets the support she needs as she continues

There were so many beautiful skates!

 

[Lamente Ariane]

An exciting event with many wonderful skates! Besides the top five I loved Sara-Maude Dupuis, Tara Prasad, Jocelyn Hong and of course Hana Yoshida’s free and Amber Glenn’s short. I hope Isabeau feels better soon and am glad she didn’t force herself to compete if she felt ill tonight. Health should always be a priority.

Also… my most embarrassing prediction fail in some time— I got fifth place perfect and 5 points from putting Yelim in 4th instead of 2nd What was I thinking, even I can’t remember!

 

[JimR]

I feel so, so sorry for Levito. She wasn't well enough to even practice before the short program, but they forced this young girl out there only to withdraw from the event. The new age rules are designed to avoid this kind of scenario where 15 and 16 year olds have their health exploited and put at short and long term risk for the sake of a medal. This leaves me with this icky feeling. I'm concerned she doesn't have any adults in her life that knows what is best for her.

I don't like the idea of sending this young girl to worlds in Japan. She is not a strong, powerful skater as it is and her jump technique is an injury waiting to happen. I'm seriously concerned for her health. They are already pushing her so hard at only 15!

Despite this, great performance from the Korean and Japanese skaters. They are without a doubt the two strongest nations at ISU level. It must be satisfying after being completely overlooked for the ISU awards!

 

[gsk8]

I feel so, so sorry for Levito. She wasn't well enough to even practice before the short program, but they forced this young girl out there only to withdraw from the event. The new age rules are designed to avoid this kind of scenario where 15 and 16 year olds have their health exploited and put at short and long term risk for the sake of a medal. This leaves me with this icky feeling. I'm concerned she doesn't have any adults in her life that knows what is best for her.

We don't know the situation nor have the facts, so shouldn't assume anything.

 

[JimR]

We don't know the situation nor have the facts, so shouldn't assume anything.

You are correct.

All we know is that she was not able to skate in practice before the short program. Sure, I'm assuming, but I think there's a 99.9% chance it would be some kind of injury or illness because it would be unprecedented for a skater to skip their practice session before the short program of one of the biggest tournaments of the year if they didn't have an injury or illness.

We also know that she was withdrawn minutes before the free skate warm up for illness (official reason). That is a fact. So she has either come down with a sudden illness minutes before the warm up, sent to the arena with a pre-existing virus potentially infecting other athletes, if it was something not infectious like from food poisoning then it would be very dangerous to send someone to an arena in an attempt to skate.

If it's a sudden illness she came down with within minutes of the warm up starting, then that is rotten luck. If it's something she came to the arena with, it's not a good look from her coaches.

Of course the withdrawal from practice before the short program and the withdrawal from the event before the free skate warm up could be completely unrelated. She could have had an injury or completely unrelated illness that required her to miss the short program practice, then has suffered an unrelated illness ahead of the warm up in the free skate.

All we can hope now is that she receives the care she needs and can overcome these setbacks.

 

[yume]

This was Korea and USA A-teams against Japan B-team (minus Rinka). I was expecting 1.USA 2. KOR 3.KOR after the short but glad that Mone ended on podium. Sorry for Levito though. Didn't expect Haein on podium. I thought that even if she was clean she would get ur calls again. Glad for her even tho i would have loved Yelim to win.
Expected a better result for Hana but at least she fought well in the free.
Loved Tara Prasad too. I hope she will get the minima for worlds someday.

The PCS were criminal in this event.

 

[4everchan]

I really enjoyed watching this event (came in late, so I saw only the last two flights).

The final flight took another colour with Isabeau's w/d. They announced that it is for a medical reason without details, so let's hope she recovers quickly from whatever prevented her from competing.

I was rooting super hard for Yelim as I find her skating more mature and refined and to my taste. Too bad it didn't work out for her for the gold but with how Haein had performed, Yelim needed a clean skate. Good for Lee !

I hadn't seen Mone very often so she is the one who impressed me the most. Her skating is exquisite. That's the word I used in the competition thread, and it's worth repeating.

I was glad Rinka did better here. She clearly has ups and downs.

I was not expecting Bradie to be on the podium as she is still on the recovery path, nor did I expect Amber there either. However, after the SP, they had a legitimate shot. But not with how well the Korean women and Mone and Rinka skated.

Canada sent their National champion who has been struggling (my opinion) with pressure of doing too well... She has the potential for sure but she gets lost out there on the ice when things start going badly.
With Madeline struggling, it was refreshing to see young Sara-Maude Dupuis skate a clean program. Dupuis was 4th at Nationals so for many, it was a bit unexpected to see her ending up as highest Canadian. Her TES was strong (ahead of everyone not Japanese nor Korean). As a relative new comer, and with her powerful athletic style, PCS will take time I am afraid. We will see if she decides to be more ambitious with her layout in order to trigger better recognition. She has landed the 3a in practice... and could be the first Canadian woman to succeed landing it in competition.

 

[DancingCactus]

I haven't had time to watch any 4CC yet, but my predictions for the women's event can be safely flushed down the toilet...
Very interesting!

 

[rain]

I had a few overall thoughts on the women, which I posted in the competition thread, but I think are worth a re-post here:

First, those lamenting how terrible and backward and unimpressive the international women's field is are completely wrong, and we only have to look at the incredible free skate competition from last night to see it. A single pop was enough to bump people off the podium! Amazing, stellar skating from almost the entirety of the last two groups. I wish some of the programs were more individual and interesting, but that's been a general complaint of mine for years.

I was rooting super hard for Yelim as I find her skating more mature and refined and to my taste. Too bad it didn't work out for her for the gold but with how Haein had performed, Yelim needed a clean skate. Good for Lee !

Yelim is my favourite this season. Her short program is just everything I love about skating. I still would probably have given her the win, due to her mature presentation, which, IMO, was a cut above most of the field, but Haein Lee certainly skated lights-out for the nod here.

With Madeline struggling, it was refreshing to see young Sara-Maude Dupuis skate a clean program. Dupuis was 5th at Nationals so for many, it was a bit unexpected to see her ending up as highest Canadian. Her TES was strong (ahead of everyone not Japanese nor Korean). As a relative new comer, and with her powerful athletic style, PCS will take time I am afraid. We will see if she decides to be more ambitious with her layout in order to trigger better recognition. She has landed the 3a in practice... and could be the first Canadian woman to succeed landing it in competition.

I expected nothing from Dupuis. I barely remembered her from nationals — basically just as one of the skaters that used "Take the A Train" for her music, since I dislike it, lol. But boy did she step up here. Lets hope she can repeat the technical performance and improve the artistic. You are right that she's one of those athletic skaters who is never going to be balletic out there, so much like Kaori Sakamoto, she needs programs that are going to highlight her strengths, not generic ones like she has now that are basically paint-by-numbers meant to fit a wide variety of conventional skaters.

And on a completely different note: Can we talk about what a disappointing non-entity the choreo sequences in the women's programs are? The element has been added to lend some spice and individuality, and IMO, it's been a complete failure. All we've seen are some mostly lacklustre spirals and uninteresting knee slides. Come on!

 

[4everchan]

I expected nothing from Dupuis. I barely remembered her from nationals — basically just as one of the skaters that used "Take the A Train" for her music, since I dislike it, lol. But boy did she step up here. Lets hope she can repeat the technical performance and improve the artistic. You are right that she's one of those athletic skaters who is never going to be balletic out there, so much like Kaori Sakamoto, she needs programs that are going to highlight her strengths, not generic ones like she has now that are basically paint-by-numbers meant to fit a wide variety of conventional skaters.

I remember Dupuis from when she won Challenge in Juniors and then Nationals were canceled due to Covid. Strong jumper... but then, she seemed to struggle.. until recently. I agree she will need to get better programs. She reminds me of Gabby a lot... but I think her jumps are even more sound technically.

 

[rain]

I remember Dupuis from when she won Challenge in Juniors and then Nationals were canceled due to Covid. Strong jumper... but then, she seemed to struggle.. until recently. I agree she will need to get better programs. She reminds me of Gabby a lot... but I think her jumps are even more sound technically.

I actually just rewatched Dupuis's skate and she was actually better artistically than I remembered from first watch, lol. Her arms are actually quite lovely, though she does not appear particularly flexible, so they'll have to work around that (I actually think the extreme flexibility they almost require now — think the now-ubiquitous Beillman — needs to be toned down as a necessity, as for skaters for whom it does not come naturally — and even those it does — it can lead to serious and chronic injury. And I don't need to see that many Beillmans anyway. They're not longer special. Give me some creativity and variety.) I do think her jumps are more controlled than Gabby's. Gabby can get a bit wild, with too much power.

 

[SmileHappy34]

All skated well. Japan due to comeback of these Japanese skaters more heavily favored . Korean skaters did great. Look forward to see them skate at worlds. Hope USA team improves and impress. The medalist up the bar not in technique but in consistency and clean. Job well done. Impressed

 

[Fluture]

I feel sorry for Isabeau. I think it's fair to be concerned because she's so young and already under a ton of pressure. USFS has learned nothing when it comes to absolutely overhyping their young talents. It happened to Gracie, then to Alysa and now to Isabeau. I wish they'd just let them develop without putting all these expectations on them. Isabeau (and Alysa, too) were/are just children. There's also the elephant in the room of her coach openly admiring Tutberidze's style of training, which … yikes. Everyone talks about the jumping technique, so I won't repeat that here. But it is what it is.

She still did really well in the SP (even though she did look kind of ill there too) and she's a lovely skater. I hope she comes back soon.

That out of the way, this was a great event! I'm so happy for Haein, I've already rewatched her FS about three times. She's been continuously underscored in the past, so to finally see her being rewarded might be one of my favorite moments of this entire season

Sorry for Yelim, but she still did really well, especially given how overworked she is by her fed. All those unnecessary ranking competitions… sigh. She's so elegant and I love her programs! Hopefully she'll skate cleanly at Worlds.

Mone has amazing skating skills and her step sequences are to die for. Still missing in the performance aspect but that will come with time.

Sad for Chaeyeon, she seemed so upset. She's normally so consistent and I think that makes people forget how young and inexperienced she really is. This was only her second international senior event and she was third after the short too. It's a lot to handle. She'll come back stronger.

I‘m happy for Bradie, she has come a long way this season. Very inspiring! That being said, I don't agree with the scores. The FS is … Benoit at his worst, the whole global warming aspect seems tacked on without any substance. Also, skating after the Japanese skaters and Haein really showed her lack of knee bend and deep edges. Don't agree with her getting the highest PCS here whatsoever.

I love Rinka and fifth is a good result but it really stings that she could have medaled here with a better SP. Maybe change the combo to 3Lo+3T in the short? She just never seems to rotate the lutz toe…

For Amber, I'll just say: PLEASE for the love of everything, include three combos! She‘s missed one all season, so this wasn't a fluke and it drives me crazy. The FS wasn't her day but I loved her performance in the SP.

Hana's PCS were a joke (60… really?!) and it hurts that her inconsistency has ruined her reputation this much. She started the season with solid PCS on the JGP season but it's all gone downhill since the JGPF…

Shoutout to Sara-Maude and Tara, two other standouts from the earlier groups.

A last comment on the judging and the minimum scores … I just CAN'T with how they raised the minimums and then will scrutinize smaller fed skaters to the last smallest detail and call literally EVERYTHING. This doesn't happen to the last two groups and it‘s just unfair. Does the ISU just not want skaters at Worlds, or for small feds to develop their programs? 32 in the SP for women is insane, when the men's minimums are only 34 and they can do quads….. Just no

 

[moonvine]

You are correct.

All we know is that she was not able to skate in practice before the short program. Sure, I'm assuming, but I think there's a 99.9% chance it would be some kind of injury or illness because it would be unprecedented for a skater to skip their practice session before the short program of one of the biggest tournaments of the year if they didn't have an injury or illness.

We also know that she was withdrawn minutes before the free skate warm up for illness (official reason). That is a fact. So she has either come down with a sudden illness minutes before the warm up, sent to the arena with a pre-existing virus potentially infecting other athletes, if it was something not infectious like from food poisoning then it would be very dangerous to send someone to an arena in an attempt to skate.

If it's a sudden illness she came down with within minutes of the warm up starting, then that is rotten luck. If it's something she came to the arena with, it's not a good look from her coaches.

Of course the withdrawal from practice before the short program and the withdrawal from the event before the free skate warm up could be completely unrelated. She could have had an injury or completely unrelated illness that required her to miss the short program practice, then has suffered an unrelated illness ahead of the warm up in the free skate.

All we can hope now is that she receives the care she needs and can overcome these setbacks.

We know she was not at practice. It’s a wild extrapolation to say she was “unable to practice.” Athletes come to practice and mark their jumps. Athletes skip practice. Doesn’t mean they are “unable to practice.”

 

[moonvine]

And on a completely different note: Can we talk about what a disappointing non-entity the choreo sequences in the women's programs are? The element has been added to lend some spice and individuality, and IMO, it's been a complete failure. All we've seen are some mostly lacklustre spirals and uninteresting knee slides. Come on!

Unless one is maxed out on jumps and spins (whatever that means for that skater, whether that’s ultra C or triple triples or what) there’s not enough points there to mess with. Unfortunately…they’re not there for our entertainment…they’re there to get points from judges.

 

[Fluture]

Also, I forgot to say it in my already way too long post (lol) but the level of performances was amazing for this kind of altitude. I was worried after the first two groups and prepared for a total splatfest but the last two groups really came through! Just to illustrate it - Torino, where the GPF was held, is at 784 feet. Colorado Springs at 6035!! They were all gasping for breath after the program, and yet so many managed to get through their free clean or nearly clean. Just goes to show how well conditioned they are (still wish they held the competition in a different place though).

 

[b-man]

We know she was not at practice. It’s a wild extrapolation to say she was “unable to practice.” Athletes come to practice and mark their jumps. Athletes skip practice. Doesn’t mean they are “unable to practice.”

At US Nationals, Levito also skipped a practice.

 

[Jontor]

I feel sorry for Isabeau. I think it's fair to be concerned because she's so young and already under a ton of pressure. USFS has learned nothing when it comes to absolutely overhyping their young talents. It happened to Gracie, then to Alysa and now to Isabeau. I wish they'd just let them develop without putting all these expectations on them. Isabeau (and Alysa, too) were/are just children. There's also the elephant in the room of her coach openly admiring Tutberidze's style of training, which … yikes. Everyone talks about the jumping technique, so I won't repeat that here. But it is what it is.

She still did really well in the SP (even though she did look kind of ill there too) and she's a lovely skater. I hope she comes back soon.

That out of the way, this was a great event! I'm so happy for Haein, I've already rewatched her FS about three times. She's been continuously underscored in the past, so to finally see her being rewarded might be one of my favorite moments of this entire season

Sorry for Yelim, but she still did really well, especially given how overworked she is by her fed. All those unnecessary ranking competitions… sigh. She's so elegant and I love her programs! Hopefully she'll skate cleanly at Worlds.

Mone has amazing skating skills and her step sequences are to die for. Still missing in the performance aspect but that will come with time.

Sad for Chaeyeon, she seemed so upset. She's normally so consistent and I think that makes people forget how young and inexperienced she really is. This was only her second international senior event and she was third after the short too. It's a lot to handle. She'll come back stronger.

I‘m happy for Bradie, she has come a long way this season. Very inspiring! That being said, I don't agree with the scores. The FS is … Benoit at his worst, the whole global warming aspect seems tacked on without any substance. Also, skating after the Japanese skaters and Haein really showed her lack of knee bend and deep edges. Don't agree with her getting the highest PCS here whatsoever.

I love Rinka and fifth is a good result but it really stings that she could have medaled here with a better SP. Maybe change the combo to 3Lo+3T in the short? She just never seems to rotate the lutz toe…

For Amber, I'll just say: PLEASE for the love of everything, include three combos! She‘s missed one all season, so this wasn't a fluke and it drives me crazy. The FS wasn't her day but I loved her performance in the SP.

Hana's PCS were a joke (60… really?!) and it hurts that her inconsistency has ruined her reputation this much. She started the season with solid PCS on the JGP season but it's all gone downhill since the JGPF…

Shoutout to Sara-Maude and Tara, two other standouts from the earlier groups.

A last comment on the judging and the minimum scores … I just CAN'T with how they raised the minimums and then will scrutinize smaller fed skaters to the last smallest detail and call literally EVERYTHING. This doesn't happen to the last two groups and it‘s just unfair. Does the ISU just not want skaters at Worlds, or for small feds to develop their programs? 32 in the SP for women is insane, when the men's minimums are only 34 and they can do quads….. Just no

I've been getting nuts over Amber as well. It seems she always misses at least one combo! I think there must be a lack of a Plan B. She needs to work on alternative scenarios! If she is missing a combo early on she needs a backing plan to fix it. With this going on, neglecting to do all the jumps, she really leaves a lot of points on the table.

 

[b-man]

With Liveto's withdrawal, and Bradie and Ambers' post free skate comments, all three US competitors were sick or under the weather.

 

[Sai Bon]

With Liveto's withdrawal, and Bradie and Ambers' post free skate comments, all three US competitors were sick or under the weather.

Makes you wonder - but since this event was held in the US, I can't imagine they travelled together, so just coincidence? Maybe they were all affected by altitude sickness. I've had it climbing Mount Fuji, and it's no fun.