2023 Four Continents Free Dance

[almiranara]

Who are T/V??

Turkkila/Versluis, the Finnish dance team

 

[Jumping_Bean]

I'm always fascinated when people assert this. G/P and C/B both have all level 4 lifts. The end.

Levels =/= complexity.

Levels are about ticking boxes and not necessarily about the actual difficulty of a movement, and teams can achieve all features with "easier" lifts while others go above and beyond in terms of complexity, creativity, or difficulty, and might still receive lower levels. People are free to not enjoy it when people take the easy road, and for a team like Piper and Paul who have had very complex lifts in the past, the lifts they are doing this season are certainly on the simpler side, even if they are level 4 lifts.

As a small example of levels not necessarily corresponding to (visual) complexity, only one of these two (very well-executed) lifts received a level 4 - Can you tell which one?

 

[4everchan]

At the same time, both FBS and CB received one level 3 lift for their Free Dance at 4cc... and I don't believe that's the plan for them or how it is always scored. Levels can be lost easily. All top teams are aiming for level 4 lifts. Now, we could say the same about every single element. There is a balance between quality and difficulty. Piper and Paul probably have chosen lifts that will hit the level requirements but will work well with their choreography. This is what Carol Lane excels at : integrating elements seamlessly in a program... I think this shouldn't be looked at negatively, quite the opposite. Papadakis and Cizeron are not known for difficult lifts either. In ice dance, should lifts be more important than what actually happens when both partners are on the ice?

 

[VickB]

FB/ S .. I must say that the 2nd element mark of 3.52 GOE for the straight line lift 4 may been hardest element I ever seen... It should have been 4 GOE or more... maybe the judges should be more careful... It looked and is very hard like a quad ... they did it beyond perfect

also quality, artistry and technical and skating mostly with one feet instead of skating mostly on 2 foot and doing silly tricks...

OK... I am still happy for them... they brought out the gauntlet and 214.08 is now 3rd highest score of this season...and side note 9.5 points more than Poje and Weaver highest mark .

Vick
.

 

[TontoK]

FB/ S .. I must say that the 2nd element mark of 3.52 GOE for the straight line lift 4 may been hardest element I ever seen... It should have been 4 GOE or more... maybe the judges should be more careful... It looked and is very hard like a quad ... they did it beyond perfect

also quality, artistry and technical and skating mostly with one feet instead of skating mostly on 2 foot and doing silly tricks...

OK... I am still happy for them... they brought out the gauntlet and 214.08 is now 3rd highest score of this season...and side note 9.5 points more than Poje and Weaver highest mark .

Vick
.

Flag on the play. Weaver and Poje skated in an era that included completely different required elements, in both the short and long dances. Comparison of total score is meaningless.

But, for the record, I prefer FB/S over W/P in general. The programs are more interesting and accessible.

 

[Jumping_Bean]

Piper and Paul probably have chosen lifts that will hit the level requirements but will work well with their choreography. This is what Carol Lane excels at : integrating elements seamlessly in a program... I think this shouldn't be looked at negatively, quite the opposite.

The issue is that not all of their lifts work particularly well choreographically in my opinion, and unfortunately that detracts from Piper and Paul's magic for me. In particular, it is their very simple straight-line lift in the Free (which regrettably just reminds me of this emoji:) that feels out of place for a team of their caliber, which is a shame as they can do wonderful lifts, they literally have an actually complex, well-choreographed and unique rotational lift not even half a minute prior to the stationary lift in their Free.

Papadakis and Cizeron are not known for difficult lifts either. In ice dance, should lifts be more important than what actually happens when both partners are on the ice?

You're right, Papadakis/Cizeron are not known for difficult lifts either, and yes, a lot of their lifts last season were also simple, non-risky choices (though they had a great rotational lift in the Free, which was ironically enough the only one of their lifts to get a level 3 at the Olympics). This was also criticized about their skating then, just as other aspects like skating skills are criticised about other teams.
And yes, they won the Olympics with "standard" lifts, and yes, that is because other aspects of skating are of course also important... But also because the judging system often rewards safety over innovation.

I don't blame skaters, coaches and choreographers for choosing to take the "easy road", it leads to results after all, doesn't it? That does not mean I have to enjoy the outcome, and that is also ok. If you enjoy it, or it doesn't bother you, or you don't even consciously take notice of it because you focus on other aspects more, that's also completely fine. As humans, but especially as fans of this sport, we don't have to agree on everything, that's one of the amazing things about life.

Maybe I just personally am missing teams that were well-balanced, with good presentation, connection, skating skills and unique and difficult elements including lifts. A lot of the current top teams, while all wonderful people and ice dancers, have clear strengths and weaknesses, so while you still get to see all of those wonderful things, you don't often see them all at once.

 

[Weathergal]

The issue is that not all of their lifts work particularly well choreographically in my opinion, and unfortunately that detracts from Piper and Paul's magic for me. In particular, it is their very simple straight-line lift in the Free (which regrettably just reminds me of this emoji:) that feels out of place for a team of their caliber, which is a shame as they can do wonderful lifts, they literally have an actually complex, well-choreographed and unique rotational lift not even half a minute prior to the stationary lift in their Free.

You're right, Papadakis/Cizeron are not known for difficult lifts either, and yes, a lot of their lifts last season were also simple, non-risky choices (though they had a great rotational lift in the Free, which was ironically enough the only one of their lifts to get a level 3 at the Olympics). This was also criticized about their skating then, just as other aspects like skating skills are criticised about other teams.
And yes, they won the Olympics with "standard" lifts, and yes, that is because other aspects of skating are of course also important... But also because the judging system often rewards safety over innovation.

I don't blame skaters, coaches and choreographers for choosing to take the "easy road", it leads to results after all, doesn't it? That does not mean I have to enjoy the outcome, and that is also ok. If you enjoy it, or it doesn't bother you, or you don't even consciously take notice of it because you focus on other aspects more, that's also completely fine. As humans, but especially as fans of this sport, we don't have to agree on everything, that's one of the amazing things about life.

Maybe I just personally am missing teams that were well-balanced, with good presentation, connection, skating skills and unique and difficult elements including lifts. A lot of the current top teams, while all wonderful people and ice dancers, have clear strengths and weaknesses, so while you still get to see all of those wonderful things, you don't often see them all at once.

Interesting points. Who are some of the teams who you believe are well balanced?

 

[4everchan]

The issue is that not all of their lifts work particularly well choreographically in my opinion, and unfortunately that detracts from Piper and Paul's magic for me. In particular, it is their very simple straight-line lift in the Free (which regrettably just reminds me of this emoji:) that feels out of place for a team of their caliber, which is a shame as they can do wonderful lifts, they literally have an actually complex, well-choreographed and unique rotational lift not even half a minute prior to the stationary lift in their Free.

You're right, Papadakis/Cizeron are not known for difficult lifts either, and yes, a lot of their lifts last season were also simple, non-risky choices (though they had a great rotational lift in the Free, which was ironically enough the only one of their lifts to get a level 3 at the Olympics). This was also criticized about their skating then, just as other aspects like skating skills are criticised about other teams.
And yes, they won the Olympics with "standard" lifts, and yes, that is because other aspects of skating are of course also important... But also because the judging system often rewards safety over innovation.

I don't blame skaters, coaches and choreographers for choosing to take the "easy road", it leads to results after all, doesn't it? That does not mean I have to enjoy the outcome, and that is also ok. If you enjoy it, or it doesn't bother you, or you don't even consciously take notice of it because you focus on other aspects more, that's also completely fine. As humans, but especially as fans of this sport, we don't have to agree on everything, that's one of the amazing things about life.

Maybe I just personally am missing teams that were well-balanced, with good presentation, connection, skating skills and unique and difficult elements including lifts. A lot of the current top teams, while all wonderful people and ice dancers, have clear strengths and weaknesses, so while you still get to see all of those wonderful things, you don't often see them all at once.

This is why I like LaLa so much. I think they have it all.

 

[Jumping_Bean]

Interesting points. Who are some of the teams who you believe are well balanced?

Like @4everchan has already said, among the top internationally competing Seniors LaLa are probably the most well-rounded team right now, though I'd also like to give a little shoutout to Miku and Tyler, despite them, unfortunately, having some health issues and barely competing this season. Some teams, like the Browns, could relatively easily become more well-rounded with different packaging, but currently aren't quite hitting the spot for me personally. Edited to add, because I forgot: I appreciate for example Hawayek/Baker trying their best to be as well-balanced as they can possibly be and acknowledge that there are just some things they physically can't do when it comes to lifts, even if it obviously, unfortunately, still affects how well-balanced they do appear.

I must admit, I was following Jr Ice Dance much more closely this season than Sr Ice Dance, and I think there's quite a number of Jr Ice Dance teams that are already very well-rounded like BaBe (Bashynska/Beaumont), Bekker/Hernandez, Grimm/Savitskiy, and a number of other teams, and some that can be equally as well-rounded when they're on, like Mrazkova/Mrazek (who sometimes seem to lose just a little bit of their presentation when they lose focus) or Lim/Quan (who have a less equal balance within the partnership when it comes to e.g. presentation but still achieve a pretty well-balanced impression overall).

Obviously, all of this is my personal opinion, and I am just as biased as any other person toward some teams, that might actually not be as well-rounded as my rose-coloured glasses lead me to believe.

 

[double_sal_gal]

I often wonder if skaters listen to the lyrics and consider the possibilities. Can't remember now who it is in women's singles who was using "I Dreamed a Dream" this season and late in the program is the line about "so different from this hell I'm living". I always thought, "What if she's having one of those nightmare outings?"

There's a line in Miura/Kihara's FS music that goes something like "steal the oxygen from my lungs." At least Darian Kaptich managed to "keep that breathless charm" in his FS!

I have a whole Spotify playlists of songs that talk about falling. I think I called it "do not skate to these songs." You can't be too careful...

 

[Diana Delafield]

There's a line in Miura/Kihara's FS music that goes something like "steal the oxygen from my lungs." At least Darian Kaptich managed to "keep that breathless charm" in his FS!

I have a whole Spotify playlists of songs that talk about falling. I think I called it "do not skate to these songs." You can't be too careful...

Now I'm having a senior moment and can't think of the song's title, but one I've always sworn I'd never skate a pairs program to has a repeated line: "Don't look down, it's a long, long way to fall."

 

[Diana Delafield]

Now I'm having a senior moment and can't think of the song's title, but one I've always sworn I'd never skate a pairs program to has a repeated line: "Don't look down, it's a long, long way to fall."

Just remembered a minute after signing off. Evita. "High Flying Adored." Not recommended for pairs.

 

[Skater Boy]

Eh, I like the Evita program less every time I see it (but I’m a known contrarian when it comes to Gilles/Poirier) and even though this is my least favorite Chock/Bates FD in years, I’d still take it any day over most of the field. Their lifts remain some of the most exciting in the entire discipline.

That said, I think Fournier-Beaudry/Sorensen and Guignard/Fabbri deserve to be scored at least within striking range and I still wonder what might have been if Hawayek/Baker had won Skate America like they should have earlier in the season. I feel the worst for Hawayek/Baker, who have basically been shut out of even the bronze medal race before it begins for absolutely no discernible reason beyond not being USA #1. Politics stink.

I actually really like the Evita program. But I think this was Chock and Bates coronation. I think they have done a good just to fix or improve the FD. One thing I will say = it is not organic but that doesn't matter. It is like they didn't have a real concept when they chose they music and sort of made it up as the season progressed = literally making something up to make it sound and look purposeful, with reason. I kind of feel their skating this year was give us our gold medal, we deserve it, we persevered, the big contenders are gone. I don't think they expected the Canadians to be such a threat but as fate would have it that doesn't look so great now as Piper had an appendectomy. CB for gold inflated scores or not I don't see the Italians having enough to contend and GP are going to struggle not having competed in a while.