2023 World Figure Skating Championships Rhythm Dance

[icewhite]

I have loved this RD for Chock & Bates all season because for once Madi & Evan are being themselves and not some characters. It is honest in the same way that LoLo & Nik are themselves in their RD. I could see C/B on vacation after worlds last year dancing somewhere to this music on the floor and deciding to take it to the ice. The team that Igor warned would always have judging issues due to their height difference on matching lines and who decided to take their chances anyway. They have built their strengths of lifts and spins. Madi has worked hard on her technical skills and has steadily improved since coming to Montreal. Evan and Madi have worked hard to compromise and match their lines as best as they can. They have maximized what they can do best. They were lovely, musical and fun and relatable for the average audience member.

I am frustrated by all the teeth gnashing, this team of all the others has worked and waited the longest for this chance. I had hoped for some acknowledgement that perhaps today they did what they do the best and came out on top. The event is not over yet and the final results are not in. CIf they win or not can we at least admit that they are very worthy competitors or is that too much for some of you. Lets not pretend that they are terrible dancers who because it is simply unfair to them, their coaches and the judges. Are we really gonna bash them even if they win and move into the sunset without giving them any credit.

CATUTION: The following may be unpopular with some of you,but I am being honest here. I have very mixed feelings as I will miss their style and creativity very much when they move on, but might get an extra year if they try again in Canada. I think it is unlikely they would win in Canada hence their all out effort here. They began their career in Saitama it seems circular and right for it to conclude here. How cool would it be for Canada to potentially win at home in Canada as the Japanese pair team did?

They are not terrible dancers of course, they are world class. It's just that compared to some other top teams, especially her, they are terrible dancers. "They have waited so long" - that's not how a sport works, usually...

 

[4everchan]

I have loved this RD for Chock & Bates all season because for once Madi & Evan are being themselves and not some characters. It is honest in the same way that LoLo & Nik are themselves in their RD. I could see C/B on vacation after worlds last year dancing somewhere to this music on the floor and deciding to take it to the ice. The team that Igor warned would always have judging issues due to their height difference on matching lines and who decided to take their chances anyway. They have built their strengths of lifts and spins. Madi has worked hard on her technical skills and has steadily improved since coming to Montreal. Evan and Madi have worked hard to compromise and match their lines as best as they can. They have maximized what they can do best. They were lovely, musical and fun and relatable for the average audience member.

I am frustrated by all the teeth gnashing, this team of all the others has worked and waited the longest for this chance. I had hoped for some acknowledgement that perhaps today they did what they do the best and came out on top. The event is not over yet and the final results are not in. CIf they win or not can we at least admit that they are very worthy competitors or is that too much for some of you. Lets not pretend that they are terrible dancers who because it is simply unfair to them, their coaches and the judges. Are we really gonna bash them even if they win and move into the sunset without giving them any credit.

CATUTION: The following may be unpopular with some of you,but I am being honest here. I have very mixed feelings as I will miss their style and creativity very much when they move on, but might get an extra year if they try again in Canada. I think it is unlikely they would win in Canada hence their all out effort here. They began their career in Saitama it seems circular and right for it to conclude here. How cool would it be for Canada to potentially win at home in Canada as the Japanese pair team did?

I think 4 of the top 5 teams have been waiting for a long time... not just Madi and Evan.
I think most of the criticism is not really towards the skaters themselves... but the way it's been judged. 4 points in ice dance is like a quad axel difference... quite a lot to make up in the FD. I think, if scores were closer, fans would be less vocal about it... especially since 2 teams have beaten them earlier this season and those 2 teams are being dropped way too far to come back in the FD.
I agree with you that they have found their own recipe on what will earn them best scores... but here, it's not where they earned their lead.. they did so on the step sequence, which is a bit surprising.

In the end, it shouldn't matter where the event is held. I mean, if they are planning to retire after this, yes, it may be a great story to win the title... but does that mean that Keegan should win tomorrow because he is retiring after a very long career??? Or should Piper and Paul have to return next year to try it all again.. let's not forget they were planning to retire and decided to come back this season because they felt it wasn't a good way to end with how it went last year... I am just writing all this because I don't believe that world championships should be a lifetime achievement award....

And final words, I don't like their programs this year. Last year : I LOVED them... this year, I prefer the creative output of others. They are actually not as special as they usually are... Just my opinion.

Let's hope for a good event tomorrow !

 

[labgoat]

Madison Chock's skating shouldn't get her into a medal position.

Judging panels since 2015 have always had her and Evan in the mix. Are they all wrong?

 

[labgoat]

I think 4 of the top 5 teams have been waiting for a long time... not just Madi and Evan.
I think most of the criticism is not really towards the skaters themselves... but the way it's been judged. 4 points in ice dance is like a quad axel difference... quite a lot to make up in the FD. I think, if scores were closer, fans would be less vocal about it... especially since 2 teams have beaten them earlier this season and those 2 teams are being dropped way too far to come back in the FD.
I agree with you that they have found their own recipe on what will earn them best scores... but here, it's not where they earned their lead.. they did so on the step sequence, which is a bit surprising.

In the end, it shouldn't matter where the event is held. I mean, if they are planning to retire after this, yes, it may be a great story to win the title... but does that mean that Keegan should win tomorrow because he is retiring after a very long career??? Or should Piper and Paul have to return next year to try it all again.. let's not forget they were planning to retire and decided to come back this season because they felt it wasn't a good way to end with how it went last year... I am just writing all this because I don't believe that world championships should be a lifetime achievement award....

And final words, I don't like their programs this year. Last year : I LOVED them... this year, I prefer the creative output of others. They are actually not as special as they usually are... Just my opinion.

Let's hope for a good event tomorrow !

I too hope for a good event tomorrow, may the teams present the best version of themselves and the judging be fair. Have a good sleep and I'll be back tomorrow to root for your teams, my teams, the Italians and everyone else to have clean skates and happy finishes.

 

[DSQ]

What a humilation for Gilles and Pourier, I am very sad.
Nearly 5 points behind, I can not tunderstand this big difference.
I am sure they will get the silver tomorrow, but what a disappintment with 10 points behind Chock and Bate at the very end likely.
Its politics as it always was. Shame on the system.

Look even I agree the scores were crazy but look at the levels between Chock & Bates and Gilles & Pourier. I think personally the Americans had the superior performance of the night here. Had the Canadians been more technically secure they’d have been much closer.

 

[labgoat]

In the end, it shouldn't matter where the event is held. I mean, if they are planning to retire after this, yes, it may be a great story to win the title... but does that mean that Keegan should win tomorrow because he is retiring after a very long career??? Or should Piper and Paul have to return next year to try it all again.. let's not forget they were planning to retire and decided to come back this season because they felt it wasn't a good way to end with how it went last year... I am just writing all this because I don't believe that world championships should be a lifetime achievement award....

I agree I dislike the idea of a lifetime achievement award and wish I had been clearer. I am speaking more of fate. You are right many teams here are equally worthy. My frustration was that others seem to think Madi gets by on makeup and costumes and is just carried around by Evan and does not have to skate to really earn her scores. It takes two to dance.

Regarding the location, it is simply an observation that fate sometimes creates these circumstances such as R/K faltering last year and winning at home instead. If they had won and Alexa & Brandon not, then K/F might not have been able to win because of the Todd Sand situation. Sometimes things turn out the way they do for a reason. I just sit back and wait to see how it turns out. For example I believe their is the possibiity of multiple dance medals next year for Canada. I also believe G/F will skate in Italy and anchor a team medal for them at home. I also believe that sometimes when you have a setback and get another go in the same place, often you get different results (Case in point Saitama for Chock & Bates). How many times have you seen a skater or team win at home after a setback the previous year. It happens often enough.

 

[LadyB]

considering PCS, Piper and Paul could beat G/F tomorrow... their free dance is really going to bring the crowd in. FBS better take down F/G as well...

Totally agree with P/P, they should beat a snooze fest anytime. As far as FBS v F/G is concerned I'm sitting on the fence, as I like them both. Just think that F/G should change their style, they're becoming a bit predictable, while FBS have always something different up their sleaves.

 

[NoNameFace]

Couldn't keep my self-vow to not watch and not check any results (decided to not watch/follow Worlds due to variety of reasons, peace of mind being one of them).
The only things I'll say is that a) getting attached to a ID team(s) is a curse and b) the way ID goes proves to me I could NEVER be a professional, competing athlete, wouldn't have not only body, but more importantly brains for it.
Hope Piper and Paul are happy, regardless of anything. And I hope Evita goes their way tomorrow.

 

[theblade]

Urgh. Should have gone to sleep right after Guignard and Fabbri, then at least I'd harbour happy delusions about ice dance judging for a few more hours...

Also, probably a minority opinion but I like their RD artistically as well as technically.

Another maybe unpopular opinion, I am looking forward to YGA (Zanni) teams duking it out with IAM in the near future. The Egna dancers all seem to have this steamroller-like driving edge quality. I get the sense that if forced to prioritise between skating skills and crowd-pleasing performances they'll go for the former (which obviously vibes with me, being a G/F fan).

Not unpopular with me. I have been thinking this for the entire season; even last year could see what was coming out of YGA. There is a lot to like about what they are doing as a coaching facility.

 

[mskater93]

And I'm saying that as someone who likes Fear/Gibson, but they are not a top team in terms of skating. And Madison Chock's skating shouldn't get her into a medal position.

Did you actually WATCH this performance? I've never been a huge Madison Chock fan in terms of her skating quality and felt like Evan Bates more or less got to coast on his previously built talent levels and that Emily Samuelson was immensely more talented (I harbor that bitterness that far back!!), but she has worked her @ss off on that RD for power, speed, depth of edge, edge security, and it showed.

 

[TontoK]

Look, this isn't a mystery and it's not a conspiracy.

Piper had an emergency surgery, and they lost a lot of training time. If you look at the protocols, the difference is nearly all on the technical side, right where you'd expect them to be hurt the most.

It is very unfortunate that this happened so close to the end of the season. It's not her fault, and it's not the judges' fault, and it's not her competitors' fault. They're wonderful athletes, and by all accounts they're good people, too, but sometimes bad breaks just come your way.

What do y'all expect the judges and tech panel to do? Input the scores from the elements they performed at a competition three months ago?

 

[TontoK]

What a humilation for Gilles and Pourier, I am very sad.
Nearly 5 points behind, I can not tunderstand this big difference.
I am sure they will get the silver tomorrow, but what a disappintment with 10 points behind Chock and Bate at the very end likely.
Its politics as it always was. Shame on the system.

Humiliation? Are you kidding me?

This was a personal triumph, a tremendously great result! I had genuine concerns that they'd have to withdraw.

To come back and do as well as they did after what they've been through? Putting themselves on competitive ice after what happened? When it would have been so easy, and so understandable, to say, "It wasn't meant to be." C'mon.

 

[rain]

If you mean Canadian skaters must be in tears, I doubt it... They know that they can only control what they put on on the ice.. and they were both stellar tonight.

If you mean Canadian fans must be in tears... I can only speak for myself... I am not crying over judging i will vent and let the negative thoughts out... but will be fine in 10 minutes... Yes... Canadian skaters are often dropped... In what world Fear and Gibson are almost stronger than Piper and Paul and beating Laurence and Nikolaj? Only in the world of ice dance judges. I actually believe that some of the penultimate group are stronger than Lilah and Lewis. As for the Italians, they did what they do best very well. GIve them points if you wish... but it was bland like always. Madison and Evan started with slightly off twizzles yet, I wouldn't be surprised they got the highest GOEs for that element... already, I was done hoping for a title for Piper and Paul... It was obvious their score was going the get huge... when the steps came out at level 4... HA !!!! Okay..... fine... going to bed see.. I am done venting I am already better

I'm pissed off for Piper and Paul that they got shafted. As soon as I saw the skate order I called it. And they made sure to give Chock/Bates a huge cushion so there's no chance they will be beaten. I find Chock/Bates's RD the worst thing they've done in years and this is the reward it gets. I shouldn't be surprised, but still manage to be disappointed.

 

[GGFan]

Watched the final two groups. This was not a P/C or V/M event where just by looking at the skating skills and transitions I could tell the winners were in a class of of their own.

Found Allison and Saulius more impressive than usual--they really brought the energy. Pleasantly surprised to see Green and Parsons scored so well. The top teams all seemed to bring it, which I was very happy to see.

This is ice dance and while I want to argue that C/B definitely deserved to be first it would be naive for me to think that's the only thing going on here. Politics have always mattered. I think Montreal and Barbara are better at this game than Carol Lane.

On the other hand do I think G/P or FB/S skated so above the level of C/B and G/F that someone was clearly robbed? No. Chock and Bates have improved throughout the season and Guignard/Fabri probably deserved their levels. It does seem like the judges are favoring Chock and Bates but the free dance should be interesting. Gilles/Poirier have the most moving program of the bunch so they should at least move up to silver and they might even win the free.

 

[4everchan]

Humiliation? Are you kidding me?

This was a personal triumph, a tremendously great result! I had genuine concerns that they'd have to withdraw.

To come back and do as well as they did after what they've been through? Putting themselves on competitive ice after what happened? When it would have been so easy, and so understandable, to say, "It wasn't meant to be." C'mon.

I think some of us feel they were lowballed... nothing to do with their brilliant skate.... being 5 points away from the lead and in 3rd place, when they have wom every event they have taken part in this year is pretty "humiliating" from the judges...

And you are correct, what a tremendous effort to skate so well after surgery. If we had not been apprised of her appendectomy, nobody would have suspected what they had to deal with.

Which teams got season's best scores? Which teams didn't ? Was Piper and Paul pattern worse than in their previous competitions where they scored higher?

As a fan of the sport, with very incomplete knowledge on ice dance, it does get tiring to see teams delivering and being so so so far away from other teams... the final straw what fear and gibson ahead of fbs and close to piper and paul. No offense but they are a step lower from the other teams in the group.

 

[TontoK]

Which teams got season's best scores? Which teams didn't ? Was Piper and Paul pattern worse than in their previous competitions where they scored higher?

Did you expect Piper and Paul to pull in a season's best score when they've been off the ice for months? Did you expect that their pattern would be as fast and crisp as it was at GPF and other events where they had much more time to prepare? Did you expect that other teams would suspend their training out of sympathy for them, and NOT work to improve their elements and delivery before the world championships?

 

[muptgirl]

Wow... interesting that Patrice only appeared for Chock and Bates too...while MF did the job for everyone else... I guess he is ISU coach of the year and shows up for the chosen ones.

PS i am not that mad... if i were, I wouldn't watch this sport anymore... but really... i feel my limits being tested

For clarification, Patrice was also in K&C with FBS. So maybe multiple chosen ones

 

[4everchan]

Did you expect Piper and Paul to pull in a season's best score when they've been off the ice for months? Did you expect that their pattern would be as fast and crisp as it was at GPF and other events where they had much more time to prepare? Did you expect that other teams would suspend their training out of sympathy for them, and NOT work to improve their elements and delivery before the world championships?

Actually, yes and no.

What I will tell you is that I thought possible for them to have issues but I also thought, since the intervention may not have been very complex, that it may be just fine for them and that they wouldn't be set back much if at all with the health issue. In the end, they skated perfectly well. I actually loved their pattern dance... fine, I am not a technical specialist, but to me, it looked interesting, intricate and very well choreographed to the music. It was also skated smoothly.

Now, here is the catch : whether or not we thought they may not be as fit as previously in the season is irrelevant. What matters is how they skated. They were, for me at least, just as good as at GPF. If I hadn't known they had stopped training for a few weeks, I would never have been able to tell. I am fine saying that Chock and Bates have improved since GPF. I am fine with them being ranked 1st in the FD, though perhaps in that department, if we only look at technique, the Italians are stronger. If we are going to talk about technical content, let's be fair. Chock and Bates's twizzles were a bit off... no major error, maybe it's the camera angle, but they ddin't look perfectly well matched.

Piper and Paul had a 0.5 lead after the RD at GPF over C/B and 1.5 over G/F so with the gap they end up being it's a huge turnover. In ice dance a 5+ lead after the RD is like a quad axel kind of lead. I saw the protocols. I understand how scoring works. Do I think that C/B were 5 points better than Piper and Paul? No... Does it matter what I think? No. Can I voice my opinion ? Certainly

In the end, all I wish for ALL TEAMS is to skate well... I am able to deal with my own expectations about the judging.

 

[4everchan]

For clarification, Patrice was also in K&C with FBS. So maybe multiple chosen ones

Gosh.. i guess I was busy looking at Nik's V neck

 

[TontoK]

I am not a technical specialist, but to me, it looked interesting, intricate and very well choreographed to the music. It was also skated smoothly.

I'm not a technical expert in dance either. I couldn't tell you the differences between a L2 pattern and a L3 if my life depended on it. But looking at the protocols, the differences make sense to me, given the situation. Piper and Paul didn't have the same time to prepare for this competition as their rivals, and it showed in the technical marks.

In terms of my own enjoyment of the program, that didn't matter. But I'm not the one marking their scoresheet.

I'm certain that I'll personally enjoy their FD more than C/B, as I have all season. And I'm rooting for them to do well because they've endured a hardship when it looked like their time had arrived. But there are no components called "Tonto liked it" or "Compelling backstory."