2024-25 Russian Women's Figure Skating

[Skating91]

Well done to Eteri for cancelling the debt to Plushenko. She's loyal to her skaters. It's a little unreasonable to expect her to just cancel the debt with her own money, she has a daughter that money can go to. I'm sure Eteri has done well, but she wouldn't have anything like the money that a typical figure skating parent in the US or Canada has. Eteri is an incredible story basically got scammed into going America, left for dead over there having to find money for food, starts coaching kids to make ends meet, little by little achieves results, builds her list of clients, 20 years after that was the best coach in the world. I think she just has high expectations for skaters because she knows what is possible to endure and survive.

 

[Mathematician]

Premier of Akateva's FS



And a 3-3 for fun



You can find a premier of Petrosian's SP as well, but I couldnt watch past 2 seconds, it was too beautiful already so I'm waiting until test skates.

 

[Mathematician]

Hello doubters Adeliia is calling You can stay quiet now

 

[uwoawuwoa]

I just saw Adeliia's short program for this season and I am so excited. Personally I love it and am even more excited to see her free with the tango theme. I love that she did her 3A in the warm up, but wish she put it in the program too. It looks so smooth and she seems confident so why not? Daria landed her 4T! I hope she can become a big star this season, because I doubted her last season (and she proved me right with her inconsistency losing to Ksenia and Frolova). This season I'd like for her to be stable with her 4T and no falls at the end of the program.

Alena Prineva must have some mental block going on or something. It makes zero sense how she lands her 4Lz so well in warm up with no pressure, but she still falls with the music on and zero pressure (no scoring/no real comp). Is it mental or a timing issue to land on the music? She's my favorite junior but she won't get gold this season if she keeps falling on 4T and 4Lz especially with the new Tut girls who became junior like Andreeva with 3A and now 4S (I am shocked Liza has a quad so quickly. She seemed to only have 3A for the longest and I thought she'd end up like Kostornaia by seniors but she proved me wrong this season with her new 4S and landed it in her first comp too!).

Sofia is looking strong, but I'm not sure about her ultra-c at all. I don't think she'll land them all this season since she's still recovering.

 

[uwoawuwoa]

Premier of Akateva's FS



And a 3-3 for fun



You can find a premier of Petrosian's SP as well, but I couldnt watch past 2 seconds, it was too beautiful already so I'm waiting until test skates.

Akateva and Petrosian looked beautiful at Open skates along with Daria. I didn't expect to like Daria's performance as much I did today.

 

[uwoawuwoa]

Hello doubters Adeliia is calling You can stay quiet now

Will she have 2 clean programs with 3A and quads this season? That is the ultimate question....

 

[Mathematician]

Will she have 2 clean programs with 3A and quads this season? That is the ultimate question....

The question now is only in her 4F

Her 4T was stable already last season. Her 3A has always been her worst jump. It doesnt favour the smaller girls because its about power and momentum rather than snap. To see her explode into it and maintain lightness like that is shocking. Her 3A last season had a colossal entry, now it looks like shes strolling into a 2A. Unbelievable. Even before test skates. So I can not imagine her struggling with this jump at finals, especially considering Eteri's peaking strategy versus maintaining... If this is indicative of her general form and potential 4F stability she is looking to break a world record. Last season she struggled with multiple sicknesses and little competition - everyone judged her resulting sub-perfect performance crying that shes inconsistent. She was castigated for only scoring 250. People were also shaming her size claiming she will grow too much and the 3A is gone forever. Now they are quiet. I want them to stay quiet and watch, they can maintain a semblance of dignity if they are humbled and let the bandwagon pass by.

I will almost lament if she skates a perfect season, over the lost potential for last years FS...

Valieva was special but I am 100% sure Petrosian has the potential to become the best skater the world has ever seen.

I just saw Adeliia's short program for this season and I am so excited. Personally I love it and am even more excited to see her free with the tango theme. I love that she did her 3A in the warm up, but wish she put it in the program too. It looks so smooth and she seems confident so why not? Daria landed her 4T! I hope she can become a big star this season, because I doubted her last season (and she proved me right with her inconsistency losing to Ksenia and Frolova). This season I'd like for her to be stable with her 4T and no falls at the end of the program.

Alena Prineva must have some mental block going on or something. It makes zero sense how she lands her 4Lz so well in warm up with no pressure, but she still falls with the music on and zero pressure (no scoring/no real comp). Is it mental or a timing issue to land on the music? She's my favorite junior but she won't get gold this season if she keeps falling on 4T and 4Lz especially with the new Tut girls who became junior like Andreeva with 3A and now 4S (I am shocked Liza has a quad so quickly. She seemed to only have 3A for the longest and I thought she'd end up like Kostornaia by seniors but she proved me wrong this season with her new 4S and landed it in her first comp too!).

Sofia is looking strong, but I'm not sure about her ultra-c at all. I don't think she'll land them all this season since she's still recovering.

Even from the 2 seconds I saw of Adeliia I know she is brining us a masterpiece season. She is 100% far clear of any lady in the world right now by every metric. I wish we could get a new SP from Akateva as well but the effectively new FS should suffice. Also extremely interested in Muravieva's programs which we have zero info about. A dark horse as usual.

Prineva, I think she struggles with strong hesitation. I dont know if its nerves specifically but there is a strong mental block of some sort. I can relate to her strongly when it comes to public performance. Seems she is an over-thinker. Her FS music is rather disappointing as well, there will be little PCS for her as a result. The junior competition is developing by magnitudes. We could actually have a JGP Final where every contestant lands an ultra-c.

Akateva's form is impossible to tell. Her 3-3 is flawless. I can easily see her jumping the 4T, especially judging by her 3F. I didnt see any 2A so cant judge any 3A potential. The fact that she is jumping a 3S over a 3Lo might seem concerning, but en contraire the ease of her execution gives me hope she is actually feeling out a 4S; I just really cant imagine a 3Lo is difficult for her with how splendid her execution is looking. My only concern is a 2T over a 3T on the flip combo, otherwise I would be convinced in a 4T by finals at minimum. For now I will hope it is a fluke or she was being lazy. I can say I will be extremely surprised if she does not finish on podium. Even if she chooses to avoid ultra-c for recovery (this season has minimal consequence compared to the following Olympic year, and the first place looks unreachable for anyone regardless), she should still be far clear of Frolova or Sinitsina holistically as a skater. Without ultra-c she is a comfortable pick for bronze.

Sadkova is an unlikely threat. Her 4T looked decent but almost hand on ice. If it was late season I would be concerned, but for pre-season it allows me to maintain hope for her. Overall not enough info to judge much. She is an underrated artist for sure. Great energy. Her non-jumping elements are extremely developed and impressive. Unfortunately she keeps getting poor music for some reason (maybe her SP will break the pattern).

 

[Skating91]

The question now is only in her 4F

Her 4T was stable already last season. Her 3A has always been her worst jump. It doesnt favour the smaller girls because its about power and momentum rather than snap. To see her explode into it and maintain lightness like that is shocking. Her 3A last season had a colossal entry, now it looks like shes strolling into a 2A. Unbelievable. Even before test skates. So I can not imagine her struggling with this jump at finals, especially considering Eteri's peaking strategy versus maintaining... If this is indicative of her general form and potential 4F stability she is looking to break a world record. Last season she struggled with multiple sicknesses and little competition - everyone judged her resulting sub-perfect performance crying that shes inconsistent. She was castigated for only scoring 250. People were also shaming her size claiming she will grow too much and the 3A is gone forever. Now they are quiet. I want them to stay quiet and watch, they can maintain a semblance of dignity if they are humbled and let the bandwagon pass by.

In that clip, the 3A is still very low and not far from q but she does well to hold onto it.

I will almost lament if she skates a perfect season, over the lost potential for last years FS...

Valieva was special but I am 100% sure Petrosian has the potential to become the best skater the world has ever seen.

Her PCS is already very high I'm not sure if they can increase it much more. She was getting 9.5's last year for a program with a fall. Akatieva back probably puts a cap on Petrosian's PCS because Akatieva should almost always be ahead of Petrosian for PCS.

If Petrosian puts a 3A back into both programs, has three quads in the free skate, has two perfect programs she still won't beat Valieva's Rostelecom Cup score but will come close, let alone the 283 from the Russian Nationals. She's never going get 4's and 5's for her jumps.

Also, there's cheap points to be gained now with the full value given to sequences that Kamila didn't have when she set her records.

Even from the 2 seconds I saw of Adeliia I know she is brining us a masterpiece season. She is 100% far clear of any lady in the world right now by every metric. I wish we could get a new SP from Akateva as well but the effectively new FS should suffice. Also extremely interested in Muravieva's programs which we have zero info about. A dark horse as usual.

Prineva, I think she struggles with strong hesitation. I dont know if its nerves specifically but there is a strong mental block of some sort. I can relate to her strongly when it comes to public performance. Seems she is an over-thinker. Her FS music is rather disappointing as well, there will be little PCS for her as a result. The junior competition is developing by magnitudes. We could actually have a JGP Final where every contestant lands an ultra-c.

Akateva's form is impossible to tell. Her 3-3 is flawless. I can easily see her jumping the 4T, especially judging by her 3F. I didnt see any 2A so cant judge any 3A potential. The fact that she is jumping a 3S over a 3Lo might seem concerning, but en contraire the ease of her execution gives me hope she is actually feeling out a 4S; I just really cant imagine a 3Lo is difficult for her with how splendid her execution is looking. My only concern is a 2T over a 3T on the flip combo, otherwise I would be convinced in a 4T by finals at minimum. For now I will hope it is a fluke or she was being lazy. I can say I will be extremely surprised if she does not finish on podium. Even if she chooses to avoid ultra-c for recovery (this season has minimal consequence compared to the following Olympic year, and the first place looks unreachable for anyone regardless), she should still be far clear of Frolova or Sinitsina holistically as a skater. Without ultra-c she is a comfortable pick for bronze.

There is no reason to rush Akatieva they are taking it slowly. Just aim for medals not gold.

3.5 months until Russian championships and 5 months until GP final.

 

[Mathematician]

In that clip, the 3A is still very low and not far from q but she does well to hold onto it.

"Not far from q" is a really unique way of saying "fully rotated". I have never heard that before in my life. I would like to see some humility from you after you dragged her name through pessimism the entirety of last season every time she wasn't perfect. Apparently her gravestone was already finely carved next to Akateva's and we could sit waiting for Bazyluk's senior eligibility. And again, now we didnt get prime Kostornaia in the pre-season so she is lucky to hold on to that little thread of a 3A. She landed a way cleaner one, too, but I couldn't find it on instagram. The lightness is astounding, like a 2A. She was farming effortless 3As before in her career NEVER. I couldnt even tell it was a triple rotation. She is "holding on" to nothing, just skipping through the park. Its already improved massively from finals and its barely the pre-season. This proves that last season was plumber season like I predicted and recall she scored 250 anyways.

Akatieva should almost always be ahead of Petrosian for PCS.

Hilarious. Before we were thinking Akateva will not even restore a quad. She was down in the dumps for missing that crucial season. Rightfully forgotten. Now she will be beating Adeliia on PCS. They have the same choreographer - composition will be the same in theory but Adeliia likely processes more choreography and advanced transition. More versatility without doubt - her forte in which she has no comparison. Petrosian is a polymath. Akateva fell often. She didnt even get good PCS. Usually 9, 9.25 when she was winning. So please provide your empirical basis for the expectation of beating Petrosian who you referenced as a 9.5? Artistically Akateva beats Petrosian in solemnity of temperament only which has almost zero do with PCS. Petrosian moves significantly better. Her choreo is way denser and seamless. Go watch Akateva's old FS. Petrosian is literally flawless, there are no fingers out of place. Even in the plumber season Petrosian's proprioception suffered in no way similar to her jumps. Akateva had hesitations. Petrosian is a born artist and performer. She stutters never. The program is one movement. She lives for the crowd and for the catharsis. Akateva is an introverted Shcherbakova. She is sophisticated, highly intelligent, but doesnt possess the performative intangibles. At least least they have never demonstrated to any degree reasonably comparable to the incomparable Petrosian. She does not sympathize with the crowd. I really like Akateva, I would be thrilled if proven wrong because it means the genius present in this season has doubled and therefore the quality of my life will follow exponentially. But there is no proof. I however admit that I will be unsurprised if she demonstrates Kostornaia level SS as she leaves behind the Eteri firecracker image and develops into a mature ladies skater.

If Petrosian puts a 3A back into both programs, has three quads in the free skate, has two perfect programs she still won't beat Valieva's Rostelecom Cup score

Can you explain how 2 4Fs and a 4T dont beat 2 4Ts and a 4S?

She's never going get 4's and 5's for her jumps.

This could be a problem. But simultaneously there is no real basis for this claim. Last season was a plumber season this is already established. The season before she did get 4s. 4s are entirely reasonable considering she is in her best form.

Meanwhile PCS, no idea. Sometimes the judges are feeling altruistic and you couldnt fit all their gifts in an 18-wheeler, and other times they are taking out lifetimes of anger on the contestant's component scores. Welcome to Russia.

 

[Skating91]

"Not far from q" is a really unique way of saying "fully rotated". I have never heard that before in my life. I would like to see some humility from you after you dragged her name through pessimism the entirety of last season every time she wasn't perfect. Apparently her gravestone was already finely carved next to Akateva's and we could sit waiting for Bazyluk's senior eligibility. And again, now we didnt get prime Kostornaia in the pre-season so she is lucky to hold on to that little thread of a 3A. She landed a way cleaner one, too, but I couldn't find it on instagram. The lightness is astounding, like a 2A. She was farming effortless 3As before in her career NEVER. I couldnt even tell it was a triple rotation. She is "holding on" to nothing, just skipping through the park. Its already improved massively from finals and its barely the pre-season. This proves that last season was plumber season like I predicted and recall she scored 250 anyways.

It's a 3A I probably wouldn't give more than +1. It's not like one of those big Valieva, Akatieva, Kostornaia triple axels landed clean with great height. They usually upload the best example of a jump as well.

Hilarious. Before we were thinking Akateva will not even restore a quad. She was down in the dumps for missing that crucial season. Rightfully forgotten. Now she will be beating Adeliia on PCS. They have the same choreographer - composition will be the same in theory but Adeliia likely processes more choreography and advanced transition. More versatility without doubt - her forte in which she has no comparison. Petrosian is a polymath. Akateva fell often. She didnt even get good PCS. Usually 9, 9.25 when she was winning. So please provide your empirical basis for the expectation of beating Petrosian who you referenced as a 9.5? Artistically Akateva beats Petrosian in solemnity of temperament only which has almost zero do with PCS. Petrosian moves significantly better. Her choreo is way denser and seamless. Go watch Akateva's old FS. Petrosian is literally flawless, there are no fingers out of place. Even in the plumber season Petrosian's proprioception suffered in no way similar to her jumps. Akateva had hesitations. Petrosian is a born artist and performer. She stutters never. The program is one movement. She lives for the crowd and for the catharsis. Akateva is an introverted Shcherbakova. She is sophisticated, highly intelligent, but doesnt possess the performative intangibles. At least least they have never demonstrated to any degree reasonably comparable to the incomparable Petrosian. She does not sympathize with the crowd. I really like Akateva, I would be thrilled if proven wrong because it means the genius present in this season has doubled and therefore the quality of my life will follow exponentially. But there is no proof. I however admit that I will be unsurprised if she demonstrates Kostornaia level SS as she leaves behind the Eteri firecracker image and develops into a mature ladies skater.

I don't think Akatieva will beat Petrosian this season, but Akatieva is the better skater if you remove ultra-c. Although Petrosian is improving what I saw of her looks great it looks like she's improved since last season. Of course, hopefully Akatieva can restore her previous content and add some stability (although Petrosian has lacked stability I can't remember her ever performing a clean free skate.

This is the third season with no international event and egregious violation of the Olympic charter, yet Petrosian's motivation seems higher than ever. The short clips I saw would suggest she has improved since the last season which is impressive. There's a lot of fight in her.

Can you explain how 2 4Fs and a 4T dont beat 2 4Ts and a 4S?

She will probably be ahead of Valieva's best in term of base value, but Petrosian has the benefit of free points from the jump sequence. She usually jumps two 4T and one 4F, but still this would be slightly ahead (Valieva would be the second 4T in a cascade with euler and salchow so not a direct comparison although very close). Valieva would get easy 4's on her jumps with good reason.

This could be a problem. But simultaneously there is no real basis for this claim. Last season was a plumber season this is already established. The season before she did get 4s. 4s are entirely reasonable considering she is in her best form.

Meanwhile PCS, no idea. Sometimes the judges are feeling altruistic and you couldnt fit all their gifts in an 18-wheeler, and other times they are taking out lifetimes of anger on the contestant's component scores. Welcome to Russia.

Alysa Liu had a base value for her free skate in the 40's and was getting 8.5's from judges, so for sure it is possible for some sky high marks (I haven't watched her performance maybe this performance in the 40's for base value was worth 8.5's or maybe more.

 

[Mathematician]

It's a 3A I probably wouldn't give more than +1. It's not like one of those big Valieva, Akatieva, Kostornaia triple axels landed clean with great height. They usually upload the best example of a jump as well.

Ok, so its fully rotated, which you called "almost a q". Amazing. Dont compare Kostornaia's 3A to the other two. Muravieva's 3A is way bigger than theirs as well. And now we can ignore your comment that they upload the best example. Here is here other one finally, maybe also a +1 and "almost q"?

Akatieva is the better skater if you remove ultra-c.

Elaborate. I explained everything. You did not provide any rebuttal of specificity, just an unsubstantiated claim. I already proved the PCS gap using your own claim on Petrosian's PCS. You ignored it. I must assume you are talking about tech gap then and concede PCS. "Without ultra-c" is hilarious. How would Petrosian's "without-ultra-c" skating improve if she decided to switch her focus and not train ultra-c? Amazing. Sounds like she is picking the more difficult challenge because it requires more skill and presents more reward. So this "if" is irrelevant. This is the same argument the international fans make against all the Russian skaters. I'm sure they are adamant that Kaori is far superior to Valieva if we ignore ultra-c. Her tech IS ultra-c. Tech is tech score, she gets higher while maintaining PCS. Its finished there.

(although Petrosian has lacked stability I can't remember her ever performing a clean free skate.

Petrosian lacked no less stability than Akateva in her only senior season who performed a clean FS zero times. Meanwhile in juniors Petrosian was busy going for a 4Lo which she achieved within viably scored confirmation.

She will probably be ahead of Valieva's best in term of base value, but Petrosian has the benefit of free points from the jump sequence. She usually jumps two 4T and one 4F, but still this would be slightly ahead (Valieva would be the second 4T in a cascade with euler and salchow so not a direct comparison although very close). Valieva would get easy 4's on her jumps with good reason.

Two 4Ts and a 4F in the plumber season where she barely scraped a 3A. Lets see this season then when she already annihilated her last final's 3A in pre-season. You yourself gave me best possible scenario when making the argument. We already established Petrosian has gotten 4s. But I agree the GOE gap is a valid argument in your case, for now. But its a narrow sense. You are comparing a really small girl to a bigger one. Valieva's jumps will be bigger but actually her landings were not particularly smooth consistently. There are other factors to look for with Petrosian like speed, entry/exits, axis and lightness as she leaves behind the firecracker style to a real ladies's style while maintaining the small size. Actually this is the theoretical best case scenario for jump GOEs. A normal girl like Valieva necessarily has visible separation in jump and choreo due to weight, Petrosian no. She is one of one. By the way her height on the 3A looked quite adequate, and her forte is toe jumps. Meanwhile the jump sequence only helps my case?

Alysa Liu had a base value for her free skate in the 40's and was getting 8.5's from judges, so for sure it is possible for some sky high marks (I haven't watched her performance maybe this performance in the 40's for base value was worth 8.5's or maybe more.

I saw the score card. It was shocking. I agree with you that I will not be watching the replay...

 

[uwoawuwoa]

In that clip, the 3A is still very low and not far from q but she does well to hold onto it.

Her PCS is already very high I'm not sure if they can increase it much more. She was getting 9.5's last year for a program with a fall. Akatieva back probably puts a cap on Petrosian's PCS because Akatieva should almost always be ahead of Petrosian for PCS.

If Petrosian puts a 3A back into both programs, has three quads in the free skate, has two perfect programs she still won't beat Valieva's Rostelecom Cup score but will come close, let alone the 283 from the Russian Nationals. She's never going get 4's and 5's for her jumps.

Also, there's cheap points to be gained now with the full value given to sequences that Kamila didn't have when she set her records.


There is no reason to rush Akatieva they are taking it slowly. Just aim for medals not gold.

3.5 months until Russian championships and 5 months until GP final.

I don’t agree that Akateva’s PCS should be above Adeliia’s if we look at specific categories.

Both are incredible skaters so my comparison below is not saying anyone is bad but rather comparing the strengths and weaknesses between two of Russia's most powerful active female skaters in the senior division.

Back to the main topic—this is a lengthy analysis, so feel free to skim if you have a short attention span. I know my writing can be pretty detailed, and I totally understand if you don’t get through all of it!

This is PCS as in Presentation, Composition, and Skating skills. 3 whole parts making a whole puzzle not one part being the only and final factor of the entire PCS criteria and there are several (a lot) of sections to tackle for PCS.

In the Presentation category 1 of “Expressiveness and projection”

Adeliia is a lot more expressive and projects at a higher level according to the music piece she’s given which Akateva is not doing at the same high level objectively. If you put their faces side by side and frame by frame Adeliia is a lot stronger in the emotional interpretation section throughout the program and Akateva should be nowhere near this area nor should she surpass her if scored fairly.

Emotional expression and projection is one area Akateva needs to strengthen, because she is not there at all if compared to Adele.

In Presentation Category 3 of “Musical sensitivity and timing” Adeliia is much stronger than Akateva.

Adele excels in this so much so that she will even time her fast spins to match the music using her arms and high speed in her spins to flow with the sound which Akateva seldom does to highlight musical control over her body.

In Presentation category 2 of “Variety & contrast of energy and of movements” Adeliia excels again over Akateva as she can vary her speed and quickness in dynamic movement with more accuracy.

Akateva has a soft ethereal aesthetic to her skating that captivates but can’t shift the energy or force in fast paced areas of the music in her programs. When she tries it looks awkward (remember that program she got in Juniors with the fun Asian melody? A song from Mulan? She had very awkward and slow movements to a very upbeat joyful melody in the second half). This one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKhVSK5b-g0 The musical precision for Sofia was very weak here in comparison to her softer instrumental pieces (she was younger here so she’s a lot stronger currently of course, but even now she'd fail this exact program. It was not for her). If you gave Adele that song/program it would have worked much better as she's more dynamic with quicker sharper movements and higher musical precision.

Sofia's movements stay polished and gentle but the energy does not shift into high intensity. She doesn’t transition from “soft” to “high energy” and vice versa. She stays graceful, soft and gentle throughout. On the opposite side Adeliia can increase her energy in a song transitioning from slow to fast and break the “ethereal” aesthetic on command. She can contrast her movements a lot better than Akateva can, shifting the weight of her movements from soft and lyrical to dramatic and sassy or even playful should the music call for it.

Her exhibition to "Gypsy Girl" last season was a fantastic display of energy control, starting with a slow, playful pace that seamlessly transitioned into a faster tempo towards the end, nicely in sync with the music—without relying on big jump passes (like quads or 3A). The music is slower at the beginning and she matches the slow but playful pace. Then as the tempo speeds up and climaxes towards the end she matches the fast pace even with her spins and arm variations. When her knee slide comes to a stop as the song is set to end she keeps up with the ongoing beat with her arm movements. Pays attention to the details while she increases or decreases the energy of her movements based on the accents of the music. High musical precision from the girl (back to category 3 here).

For example, Adeliia can smoothly glide into a counter, and as the music swells, she transitions effortlessly into a speedy twizzle, excellently mirroring the intensity and drama of the sound. Then, as the music softens, she gracefully comes to a stop, her arms and hands moving in a soft, relaxed stroke. Akateva, on the other hand, doesn’t contrast her movements as much with the musical accents. Sofia has a steady, sleek streamlined style, radiating tenderness with divine grace. But Adele brings more theatrical flair and precision, both in her expressions and movements, placing her on a higher level of performance that truly elevates her connection to the music.

Presentation of PCS is Adeliia’s main strength overall. In 3 out 3 singles categories she overtakes Akateva based on the criteria. Category 4 "oneness" is a section specifically designed for couples not really singles which is why it's 3/3 and not 3/4. With fair judging, Akateva shouldn’t outscore Adeliia Petrosian in Presentation if both are performing at their best. The only way it would be fair for Sofia to beat Adele in this area is if Sofia dramatically improves her presentation skills or if Adele, like Sasha, shifts her focus to landing five quads and her presentation suffers as a result.

Let’s move on to C. The Composition of PCS.

In Composition category 1: “Multidimensional movements and use of space.”

This is Adele’s main strength in the composition section. She has more versatility in movement in comparison to Akateva. Makes more use of the entire body using a variety of highs, mediums, and lows. Akateva does not make as much use of mediums and lows. She makes great use of highs, has good mediums, but plateaus at the lows in comparison to Adele.

Akateva is not "bad" at all or anything of that sort. She just does not do it to the level of Adele. Like I said, both are incredible girls so me saying one does "less" over the one doing "more" still means the one doing "less" is amazing but not at the same level as the other spectacular skater doing "more".

The only skater I can think of who rivals Adeliia in multidimensional movement from Team Tut is Arseny. He’s just as versatile, excelling in using the full range of motion—particularly the lower and medium planes, which most skaters don’t make full use of while sticking mainly to the higher planes barely affecting the main body core to its full extent. His use of movements in the lows is on par with Adeliia's (greater truthfully), though they’ll never directly compete against each other as man vs woman, so it’s a null comparison. Now that I’m thinking of others, Yammetova also stands out for her incredible use of lows and mids, especially among the senior female skaters from other camps. Even Yurova, the new junior skater from Plushenko’s camp, impresses with her dynamic range, particularly in the low planes.

For this section of composition we can’t blame the choreographer because they don’t control the moves the skater themselves are capable of. Multidimensional movements is a skater issue. The choreographer cannot choreograph past the physical limits of the skater’s own movements. Here's a very random example, they cannot give a skater choreo with a backflip if the skater cannot physically execute a backflip on ice. That’s a Skater issue not a choreographer issue. Being less versatile in movement and having lower multi-dimension compared to Petrosian is an Akateva issue either due to her stamina (because she can’t jump 3-3's at the end of her program or spin if she's out of gas) or due to the limitations of her actual limbs.

Dani G can’t be blamed for Sofia's own physical limits. Now, if you take Adele out of the comparison, Sofia Akateva still has impressive highs, mediums, and lows compared to the rest of the field, placing her above most competitors (except honestly Zhilina from Plushenko---she too can go against Adele in multi-dimension for the mediums and low planes at high level for body movement. But she's always out with injury so I can't even evaluate her. When is the girl not injured and missing a whole season? Zhilina has strong lows while Muravieva from the same camp and same choreographer has much weaker lows. She can even fall when executing movements in the lows so she refrains heavily from moving much in the low planes. It's a skater body movement limitation rather than a choreographer issue) but directly against Adele, Sofia A isn't as strong head to head. Sofia is great but not as exceptional in movement across different planes (high, medium, and low) as Adeliia.

In composition category 2: “Connections between and within elements.”

Both skaters dominate each other and overtake other skaters here thanks to Dani G's choreography, which is packed with intricate transitions, constantly flowing from “element-to-movement-to-element” without a break. It’s a true test of endurance and skill with no time for emptiness in between elements. Adele’s choreography feels even more loaded, likely due to her higher stamina or perhaps fewer lower-body limitations compared to Akateva. However, where Akateva really stands out is in her incredibly smooth, high-level flow, which gives her the edge in this aspect.

I attribute a lot of this to Akateva's skating skills (SS)—her glide and flow, which are at the highest level in the current senior women's division. Personally, I still rank her second to Kostornaia when it comes to glide, though opinions vary. Some fans argue Sofia's glide surpasses Kosto's, but I disagree. Akateva's flow and speed can give the impression that her glide is superior, but side by side, Kosto's glide is softer and has less friction than Sofia’s. I'm focusing purely on glide here, not on clean turns or flow and speed in and out of them—this is where Sofia excels. Kosto’s glide has just a touch more buttery smoothness, and though it's subtle, that extra degree makes a difference for me.

That said, Sofia has an overall better flow, which is like the cherry on top. She maintains incredible speed even in step sequences, which is a testament to her control and precision. Her flow and glide help tie everything together with a seamless, uninterrupted quality. While this section (connection between and within elements) isn't specifically about skating skills (SS), Sofia's smooth effortless flow is a crucial factor when comparing her to Adele. Her ability to move fluidly from element to element—especially when she skates clean—gives her the edge in this criteria of Composition over Petrosian, even though Adele’s choreography might be more densely packed. The smoother connections in Sofia’s program just create a stronger overall impact.

I would definitely place Sofia over Adele in terms of flow elevating its impact on the element-movement-element connection, but that was before I saw Adeliia’s latest short program, which has shown notable improvement in flow as the season has progressed.

I’m unsure if Akateva will sustain her exceptional flow this season given her recent injury (her flow is truly majestic, so I hope the stress fracture hasn’t affected it too much), but Adele has certainly made significant strides in this area based on what I’ve seen.

In competitions, Adeliia sometimes slips back into old habits from her junior days, which can slightly disrupt her otherwise beautiful flow. For example, those random toe pushes that used to appear in her routines (although she did them less last season, they were still noticeable in my favorite program, “Viola”). It’s puzzling to see such a skilled skater, with edges as deep as Adele’s, and high speed with strong pushes adding unnecessary weak toe pushes. It might be a psychological lapse from bad habits, which, as they say, “old habits die hard.”


In composition category 3: “Choreography reflecting musical phrase and form.”

Now we can blame or praise Dani G.
Given that Dani G is behind the choreography for both skaters, it's fair to attribute their performances to his influence. Sometimes he tailors his choreography based on a skater's current form or needs, like adjusting for injuries or stamina. So, in this case, it's a bit of a draw.

Both Adeliia and Sofia have showcased standout Dani G programs—like Adele's "Viola" and Sofia's "Clouds" from their short programs that season. Each program aligns well with its music’s structure, with a clear beginning, climax, and end. Adele’s ability to reflect the musical phrase through her projection gives her a slight edge overall. However, when it comes to strictly choreographic form in relation to musical form, it's all down to Dani G’s vision, as neither skater creates their own choreography. Therefore, their performances are closely matched, depending on the program and how well they execute it on any given day.


In composition category 4: “Pattern and ice coverage.”’

In the "Pattern and Ice Coverage" category, we're talking about how well a program utilizes the ice surface and the strategic placement of movements to keep things visually engaging. Both Adeliia and Sofia have impressive speed and can cover a lot of ice, but there's more to it than just speed.

It's not just about how much ice is covered; it's also about how movements are placed to create an interesting visual experience from an overhead perspective. Dani G plays a big role here by designing the choreography to make the most of the space on ice, while the skater's job is to execute these movements exactly where Dani G intended.

To give a fair comparison, we'd need to see their current season’s programs in action. Falls can disrupt this careful planning (especially how long the skater takes to get up from a fall), causing skaters to play catch-up and potentially miss the intended patterns or correct placement of elements on the ice.

Ultimately, since both skaters are working with the same choreographer, their programs likely follow a similar structure aimed at maximizing points. So, unless we're comparing specific programs, I'd say they’re about even in this area.


In composition category 5: “unity”

I mainly evaluate couples for this section, but it can still be applied to singles in a slightly different way. In singles it would be mainly about the completeness regarding the coherence of a program taking into consideration everything mentioned above. Unity and connection of elements through movement and good use of space across different planes from highs to lows as the choreography crafted to make use of the full ice surface responds and molds to the music while an interesting pattern is created.

Depending on the Dani G program, the composition can vary in cohesiveness. Sometimes it's beautifully unified, while other times it might fall short. The sense of unity can differ based on the specific program each skater has for the season and their execution on the day of the competition. Therefore, the “winner” of this category isn’t fixed—it could be Adele on one day and Sofia on another, depending on the program.

Overall, Adele thrives in Category 1, while Akateva has the upper hand in Category 2. Both skaters rely on Dani G for strong choreography in Category 3 and depend on him for program design in Category 4. The pendulum swings back and forth in Category 5, with each skater taking turns excelling.

In terms of composition, they are pretty evenly matched due to Dani G’s influence. Each skater edges out the other in their specific categories, making it a balanced contest for composition.



In Skating skills:


In category 5 “Power and speed”
Both skaters can glide the full length of the ice in just three strokes before hitting their triple axel. They both have very good speed. I give Adele the edge here for power because she’s got a knack for accelerating and decelerating on cue while syncing her speed and varying her energy at a greater level. I’ll give Akateva the edge on ease over Petrosian, because she looks even more effortless. If Adele makes it look easy Akateva makes it look easier.

In category 4, “Flow”

They are both good but Akateva was always a head above practically everyone—at least she was until the short of open training for Adele yesterday. In the short this season Adele improved her flow to keep up with Akateva. She's taking much longer strides on her deep edges instead of connecting them with short strokes like she would before sometimes which for me would break the flow a bit. Short stroke = Jerky movements. Jerky cracks the flow. Mini cracks in a beautiful routine by Adele, but thankfully the cracks are finally sealing this season. We'll see in competition though if Adele can keep her improved flow with her longer strokes going. So far so good this season.


In category 3, “Balance and Glide”.

Part one Glide:

It's a close competition between them. Adele has a lovely glide and soft knees, but when matched up against Sofia Akateva, Sofia’s glide takes the top spot. Her glide is even more fluid and buttery, and she covers the ice with a longer, smoother stroke.

On the other hand Adele glides on deeper edges than Sofia A especially on one foot and leans further into the circle as she’s skating on bigger lobes and even deeper curves. I can showcase screenshots of Adele’s deepest edge vs Sofia’s in their one foot turns which will showcase Adele as the clear winner for deepest edges between the two.

It's up to the judge if they prefer Akateva’s deep edges with a super buttery smooth glide and longer strides across the ice surface or Petrosian’s even deeper edges with medium-long length strides and a smooth light buttery glide (but not extra buttery like Sofia) across the ice. Sofia's glide is the epitome of buttery, which could be the deciding factor between the two. I love her extra buttery glide.

Part two Balance:

Both skaters display excellent weight distribution and confident strides, but I give Sofia the edge here. Her flow remains uninterrupted and smooth, whereas Adele’s flow sometimes gets disrupted by her random toepick pushes—something she does less of now, but still affected her overall performance from last season. Sofia’s seamless transition from one move to the next enhances her sense of balance, making her glide appear more fluid and continuous. While balance and glide go hand in hand, it’s the uninterrupted flow that truly completes Sofia’s look. This season will be crucial for assessing whether Adele has managed to improve her flow in both the short and free programs going head to head with Akateva, as just seeing the short isn’t quite enough for a complete comparison for the girls overall.


In category 1, "Variety of edges, steps, turns, movements and directions"

They are both super strong here with slight differences. For example, Adeliia will straight up rocker-counter-choctaw in one go either before or after her set of three-turns, crossovers, choreographic hops, and mohawks. She then rides out a deep, long right back outside edge from one end of the rink to the other before launching into a very fast 3A (see her "Viola" short at the Grand prix final). Meanwhile Sofia will spread her rocker-counter-choctaw in between her crossovers, mohawks, and three turns and choreographic hops before jumping a super massive 3A (see her "Clouds" Nationals performance). Both powerful but different approaches using a variety of difficult turns and steps before their elements. Also how Dani G laid it out for them as well in the choreography so that’s also at play here.

Their directional skills are equally impressive, as both skaters maintain high speed while seamlessly transitioning between forwards and backwards, and clockwise and counter-clockwise movements. In this area, they don’t outshine each other—both are incredibly skilled and impressive. Both win this category.

In Category 2, "Clarity of edges, steps, turns, movements and body control"

Part one: Clarity of edge, steps and turns

This aspect really depends on the day of skating, as the execution of the turns can vary. Have you've ever noticed a skater getting a Level 4 on a step sequence one day and a Level 2 on the same program another day? Then you might understand what I'm talking about. It all comes down to how well the turns and steps are executed on any given day.

The key here is that on any given competition day, the turns and steps might not always be executed with the same precision. This is why a skater can score a Level 4 step sequence one day and a Level 2 the next. The clarity of the edges and the precision of the turns weren't quite up to par on the day and in the moment of execution.

For instance, if a skater is supposed to execute a Choctaw from an outside edge on one foot to an inside edge on the other, but ends up transitioning from a back outside edge to a forward outside edge—or even a flat edge—this can lead to a drop in their level as it won’t count. Or when performing a rocker, if a skater transitions from a right forward inside (RFI) to a right back outside (RBO), that’s an incorrect edge. The edge should not change on a rocker like it does on a 3-turn. Similarly, if the tech panel struggles to identify the steps in a sequence due to poor clarity, they might not count the combo at all.

This applies to all skaters including Akateva and Petrosian on the day of their performance; neither consistently outshines the other in this area since the clarity of their edges can fluctuate depending on the day. They both have strong performances, but their level of execution can vary. Even in this category.


Part two: movements and body control

When it comes to controlling their core and executing precise movements across all planes, Adele has a slight edge over Sofia. Adele shines with her multidimensional movements—highs, mediums, and lows—showcasing a level of body control that stands out. Both skaters exhibit strong control, but Adele's ability to maneuver across various planes sets her apart.

If a judge prioritizes the softest glide with deep edges, long strides, excellent balance, high speed, diverse turns and steps, and superior flow, Sofia might come out on top for SS. On the other hand, a judge who values the highest level of body control, deeper edges, high speed, varied turns and steps, smooth glide, great balance, multidirectional movement, very good flow and superior acceleration/deceleration might lean towards Adele in SS. Ultimately, the clarity of their performance can depend on the specifics of each competition day.

Both skaters are truly remarkable, and I absolutely adore them. I’m so grateful just to have the chance to watch them perform. I’d be heartbroken if there were no streams to catch their incredible routines.

 

[Mathematician]

I don’t agree that Akateva’s PCS should be above Adeliia’s if we look at specific categories.

Both are incredible skaters so my comparison below is not saying anyone is bad but rather comparing the strengths and weaknesses between two of Russia's most powerful active female skaters in the senior division.

Back to the main topic—this is a lengthy analysis, so feel free to skim if you have a short attention span. I know my writing can be pretty detailed, and I totally understand if you don’t get through all of it!

This is PCS as in Presentation, Composition, and Skating skills. 3 whole parts making a whole puzzle not one part being the only and final factor of the entire PCS criteria and there are several (a lot) of sections to tackle for PCS.

In the Presentation category 1 of “Expressiveness and projection”

Adeliia is a lot more expressive and projects at a higher level according to the music piece she’s given which Akateva is not doing at the same high level objectively. If you put their faces side by side and frame by frame Adeliia is a lot stronger in the emotional interpretation section throughout the program and Akateva should be nowhere near this area nor should she surpass her if scored fairly.

Emotional expression and projection is one area Akateva needs to strengthen, because she is not there at all if compared to Adele.

In Presentation Category 3 of “Musical sensitivity and timing” Adeliia is much stronger than Akateva.

Adele excels in this so much so that she will even time her fast spins to match the music using her arms and high speed in her spins to flow with the sound which Akateva seldom does to highlight musical control over her body.

In Presentation category 2 of “Variety & contrast of energy and of movements” Adeliia excels again over Akateva as she can vary her speed and quickness in dynamic movement with more accuracy.

Akateva has a soft ethereal aesthetic to her skating that captivates but can’t shift the energy or force in fast paced areas of the music in her programs. When she tries it looks awkward (remember that program she got in Juniors with the fun Asian melody? A song from Mulan? She had very awkward and slow movements to a very upbeat joyful melody in the second half). This one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKhVSK5b-g0 The musical precision for Sofia was very weak here in comparison to her softer instrumental pieces (she was younger here so she’s a lot stronger currently of course, but even now she'd fail this exact program. It was not for her). If you gave Adele that song/program it would have worked much better as she's more dynamic with quicker sharper movements and higher musical precision.

Sofia's movements stay polished and gentle but the energy does not shift into high intensity. She doesn’t transition from “soft” to “high energy” and vice versa. She stays graceful, soft and gentle throughout. On the opposite side Adeliia can increase her energy in a song transitioning from slow to fast and break the “ethereal” aesthetic on command. She can contrast her movements a lot better than Akateva can, shifting the weight of her movements from soft and lyrical to dramatic and sassy or even playful should the music call for it.

Her exhibition to "Gypsy Girl" last season was a fantastic display of energy control, starting with a slow, playful pace that seamlessly transitioned into a faster tempo towards the end, nicely in sync with the music—without relying on big jump passes (like quads or 3A). The music is slower at the beginning and she matches the slow but playful pace. Then as the tempo speeds up and climaxes towards the end she matches the fast pace even with her spins and arm variations. When her knee slide comes to a stop as the song is set to end she keeps up with the ongoing beat with her arm movements. Pays attention to the details while she increases or decreases the energy of her movements based on the accents of the music. High musical precision from the girl (back to category 3 here).

For example, Adeliia can smoothly glide into a counter, and as the music swells, she transitions effortlessly into a speedy twizzle, excellently mirroring the intensity and drama of the sound. Then, as the music softens, she gracefully comes to a stop, her arms and hands moving in a soft, relaxed stroke. Akateva, on the other hand, doesn’t contrast her movements as much with the musical accents. Sofia has a steady, sleek streamlined style, radiating tenderness with divine grace. But Adele brings more theatrical flair and precision, both in her expressions and movements, placing her on a higher level of performance that truly elevates her connection to the music.

Presentation of PCS is Adeliia’s main strength overall. In 3 out 3 singles categories she overtakes Akateva based on the criteria. Category 4 "oneness" is a section specifically designed for couples not really singles which is why it's 3/3 and not 3/4. With fair judging, Akateva shouldn’t outscore Adeliia Petrosian in Presentation if both are performing at their best. The only way it would be fair for Sofia to beat Adele in this area is if Sofia dramatically improves her presentation skills or if Adele, like Sasha, shifts her focus to landing five quads and her presentation suffers as a result.

Let’s move on to C. The Composition of PCS.

In Composition category 1: “Multidimensional movements and use of space.”

This is Adele’s main strength in the composition section. She has more versatility in movement in comparison to Akateva. Makes more use of the entire body using a variety of highs, mediums, and lows. Akateva does not make as much use of mediums and lows. She makes great use of highs, has good mediums, but plateaus at the lows in comparison to Adele.

Akateva is not "bad" at all or anything of that sort. She just does not do it to the level of Adele. Like I said, both are incredible girls so me saying one does "less" over the one doing "more" still means the one doing "less" is amazing but not at the same level as the other spectacular skater doing "more".

The only skater I can think of who rivals Adeliia in multidimensional movement from Team Tut is Arseny. He’s just as versatile, excelling in using the full range of motion—particularly the lower and medium planes, which most skaters don’t make full use of while sticking mainly to the higher planes barely affecting the main body core to its full extent. His use of movements in the lows is on par with Adeliia's (greater truthfully), though they’ll never directly compete against each other as man vs woman, so it’s a null comparison. Now that I’m thinking of others, Yammetova also stands out for her incredible use of lows and mids, especially among the senior female skaters from other camps. Even Yurova, the new junior skater from Plushenko’s camp, impresses with her dynamic range, particularly in the low planes.

For this section of composition we can’t blame the choreographer because they don’t control the moves the skater themselves are capable of. Multidimensional movements is a skater issue. The choreographer cannot choreograph past the physical limits of the skater’s own movements. Here's a very random example, they cannot give a skater choreo with a backflip if the skater cannot physically execute a backflip on ice. That’s a Skater issue not a choreographer issue. Being less versatile in movement and having lower multi-dimension compared to Petrosian is an Akateva issue either due to her stamina (because she can’t jump 3-3's at the end of her program or spin if she's out of gas) or due to the limitations of her actual limbs.

Dani G can’t be blamed for Sofia's own physical limits. Now, if you take Adele out of the comparison, Sofia Akateva still has impressive highs, mediums, and lows compared to the rest of the field, placing her above most competitors (except honestly Zhilina from Plushenko---she too can go against Adele in multi-dimension for the mediums and low planes at high level for body movement. But she's always out with injury so I can't even evaluate her. When is the girl not injured and missing a whole season? Zhilina has strong lows while Muravieva from the same camp and same choreographer has much weaker lows. She can even fall when executing movements in the lows so she refrains heavily from moving much in the low planes. It's a skater body movement limitation rather than a choreographer issue) but directly against Adele, Sofia A isn't as strong head to head. Sofia is great but not as exceptional in movement across different planes (high, medium, and low) as Adeliia.

In composition category 2: “Connections between and within elements.”

Both skaters dominate each other and overtake other skaters here thanks to Dani G's choreography, which is packed with intricate transitions, constantly flowing from “element-to-movement-to-element” without a break. It’s a true test of endurance and skill with no time for emptiness in between elements. Adele’s choreography feels even more loaded, likely due to her higher stamina or perhaps fewer lower-body limitations compared to Akateva. However, where Akateva really stands out is in her incredibly smooth, high-level flow, which gives her the edge in this aspect.

I attribute a lot of this to Akateva's skating skills (SS)—her glide and flow, which are at the highest level in the current senior women's division. Personally, I still rank her second to Kostornaia when it comes to glide, though opinions vary. Some fans argue Sofia's glide surpasses Kosto's, but I disagree. Akateva's flow and speed can give the impression that her glide is superior, but side by side, Kosto's glide is softer and has less friction than Sofia’s. I'm focusing purely on glide here, not on clean turns or flow and speed in and out of them—this is where Sofia excels. Kosto’s glide has just a touch more buttery smoothness, and though it's subtle, that extra degree makes a difference for me.

That said, Sofia has an overall better flow, which is like the cherry on top. She maintains incredible speed even in step sequences, which is a testament to her control and precision. Her flow and glide help tie everything together with a seamless, uninterrupted quality. While this section (connection between and within elements) isn't specifically about skating skills (SS), Sofia's smooth effortless flow is a crucial factor when comparing her to Adele. Her ability to move fluidly from element to element—especially when she skates clean—gives her the edge in this criteria of Composition over Petrosian, even though Adele’s choreography might be more densely packed. The smoother connections in Sofia’s program just create a stronger overall impact.

I would definitely place Sofia over Adele in terms of flow elevating its impact on the element-movement-element connection, but that was before I saw Adeliia’s latest short program, which has shown notable improvement in flow as the season has progressed.

I’m unsure if Akateva will sustain her exceptional flow this season given her recent injury (her flow is truly majestic, so I hope the stress fracture hasn’t affected it too much), but Adele has certainly made significant strides in this area based on what I’ve seen.

In competitions, Adeliia sometimes slips back into old habits from her junior days, which can slightly disrupt her otherwise beautiful flow. For example, those random toe pushes that used to appear in her routines (although she did them less last season, they were still noticeable in my favorite program, “Viola”). It’s puzzling to see such a skilled skater, with edges as deep as Adele’s, and high speed with strong pushes adding unnecessary weak toe pushes. It might be a psychological lapse from bad habits, which, as they say, “old habits die hard.”


In composition category 3: “Choreography reflecting musical phrase and form.”

Now we can blame or praise Dani G.
Given that Dani G is behind the choreography for both skaters, it's fair to attribute their performances to his influence. Sometimes he tailors his choreography based on a skater's current form or needs, like adjusting for injuries or stamina. So, in this case, it's a bit of a draw.

Both Adeliia and Sofia have showcased standout Dani G programs—like Adele's "Viola" and Sofia's "Clouds" from their short programs that season. Each program aligns well with its music’s structure, with a clear beginning, climax, and end. Adele’s ability to reflect the musical phrase through her projection gives her a slight edge overall. However, when it comes to strictly choreographic form in relation to musical form, it's all down to Dani G’s vision, as neither skater creates their own choreography. Therefore, their performances are closely matched, depending on the program and how well they execute it on any given day.


In composition category 4: “Pattern and ice coverage.”’

In the "Pattern and Ice Coverage" category, we're talking about how well a program utilizes the ice surface and the strategic placement of movements to keep things visually engaging. Both Adeliia and Sofia have impressive speed and can cover a lot of ice, but there's more to it than just speed.

It's not just about how much ice is covered; it's also about how movements are placed to create an interesting visual experience from an overhead perspective. Dani G plays a big role here by designing the choreography to make the most of the space on ice, while the skater's job is to execute these movements exactly where Dani G intended.

To give a fair comparison, we'd need to see their current season’s programs in action. Falls can disrupt this careful planning (especially how long the skater takes to get up from a fall), causing skaters to play catch-up and potentially miss the intended patterns or correct placement of elements on the ice.

Ultimately, since both skaters are working with the same choreographer, their programs likely follow a similar structure aimed at maximizing points. So, unless we're comparing specific programs, I'd say they’re about even in this area.


In composition category 5: “unity”

I mainly evaluate couples for this section, but it can still be applied to singles in a slightly different way. In singles it would be mainly about the completeness regarding the coherence of a program taking into consideration everything mentioned above. Unity and connection of elements through movement and good use of space across different planes from highs to lows as the choreography crafted to make use of the full ice surface responds and molds to the music while an interesting pattern is created.

Depending on the Dani G program, the composition can vary in cohesiveness. Sometimes it's beautifully unified, while other times it might fall short. The sense of unity can differ based on the specific program each skater has for the season and their execution on the day of the competition. Therefore, the “winner” of this category isn’t fixed—it could be Adele on one day and Sofia on another, depending on the program.

Overall, Adele thrives in Category 1, while Akateva has the upper hand in Category 2. Both skaters rely on Dani G for strong choreography in Category 3 and depend on him for program design in Category 4. The pendulum swings back and forth in Category 5, with each skater taking turns excelling.

In terms of composition, they are pretty evenly matched due to Dani G’s influence. Each skater edges out the other in their specific categories, making it a balanced contest for composition.



In Skating skills:


In category 5 “Power and speed”
Both skaters can glide the full length of the ice in just three strokes before hitting their triple axel. They both have very good speed. I give Adele the edge here for power because she’s got a knack for accelerating and decelerating on cue while syncing her speed and varying her energy at a greater level. I’ll give Akateva the edge on ease over Petrosian, because she looks even more effortless. If Adele makes it look easy Akateva makes it look easier.

In category 4, “Flow”

They are both good but Akateva was always a head above practically everyone—at least she was until the short of open training for Adele yesterday. In the short this season Adele improved her flow to keep up with Akateva. She's taking much longer strides on her deep edges instead of connecting them with short strokes like she would before sometimes which for me would break the flow a bit. Short stroke = Jerky movements. Jerky cracks the flow. Mini cracks in a beautiful routine by Adele, but thankfully the cracks are finally sealing this season. We'll see in competition though if Adele can keep her improved flow with her longer strokes going. So far so good this season.


In category 3, “Balance and Glide”.

Part one Glide:

It's a close competition between them. Adele has a lovely glide and soft knees, but when matched up against Sofia Akateva, Sofia’s glide takes the top spot. Her glide is even more fluid and buttery, and she covers the ice with a longer, smoother stroke.

On the other hand Adele glides on deeper edges than Sofia A especially on one foot and leans further into the circle as she’s skating on bigger lobes and even deeper curves. I can showcase screenshots of Adele’s deepest edge vs Sofia’s in their one foot turns which will showcase Adele as the clear winner for deepest edges between the two.

It's up to the judge if they prefer Akateva’s deep edges with a super buttery smooth glide and longer strides across the ice surface or Petrosian’s even deeper edges with medium-long length strides and a smooth light buttery glide (but not extra buttery like Sofia) across the ice. Sofia's glide is the epitome of buttery, which could be the deciding factor between the two. I love her extra buttery glide.

Part two Balance:

Both skaters display excellent weight distribution and confident strides, but I give Sofia the edge here. Her flow remains uninterrupted and smooth, whereas Adele’s flow sometimes gets disrupted by her random toepick pushes—something she does less of now, but still affected her overall performance from last season. Sofia’s seamless transition from one move to the next enhances her sense of balance, making her glide appear more fluid and continuous. While balance and glide go hand in hand, it’s the uninterrupted flow that truly completes Sofia’s look. This season will be crucial for assessing whether Adele has managed to improve her flow in both the short and free programs going head to head with Akateva, as just seeing the short isn’t quite enough for a complete comparison for the girls overall.


In category 1, "Variety of edges, steps, turns, movements and directions"

They are both super strong here with slight differences. For example, Adeliia will straight up rocker-counter-choctaw in one go either before or after her set of three-turns, crossovers, choreographic hops, and mohawks. She then rides out a deep, long right back outside edge from one end of the rink to the other before launching into a very fast 3A (see her "Viola" short at the Grand prix final). Meanwhile Sofia will spread her rocker-counter-choctaw in between her crossovers, mohawks, and three turns and choreographic hops before jumping a super massive 3A (see her "Clouds" Nationals performance). Both powerful but different approaches using a variety of difficult turns and steps before their elements. Also how Dani G laid it out for them as well in the choreography so that’s also at play here.

Their directional skills are equally impressive, as both skaters maintain high speed while seamlessly transitioning between forwards and backwards, and clockwise and counter-clockwise movements. In this area, they don’t outshine each other—both are incredibly skilled and impressive. Both win this category.

In Category 2, "Clarity of edges, steps, turns, movements and body control"

Part one: Clarity of edge, steps and turns

This aspect really depends on the day of skating, as the execution of the turns can vary. Have you've ever noticed a skater getting a Level 4 on a step sequence one day and a Level 2 on the same program another day? Then you might understand what I'm talking about. It all comes down to how well the turns and steps are executed on any given day.

The key here is that on any given competition day, the turns and steps might not always be executed with the same precision. This is why a skater can score a Level 4 step sequence one day and a Level 2 the next. The clarity of the edges and the precision of the turns weren't quite up to par on the day and in the moment of execution.

For instance, if a skater is supposed to execute a Choctaw from an outside edge on one foot to an inside edge on the other, but ends up transitioning from a back outside edge to a forward outside edge—or even a flat edge—this can lead to a drop in their level as it won’t count. Or when performing a rocker, if a skater transitions from a right forward inside (RFI) to a right back outside (RBO), that’s an incorrect edge. The edge should not change on a rocker like it does on a 3-turn. Similarly, if the tech panel struggles to identify the steps in a sequence due to poor clarity, they might not count the combo at all.

This applies to all skaters including Akateva and Petrosian on the day of their performance; neither consistently outshines the other in this area since the clarity of their edges can fluctuate depending on the day. They both have strong performances, but their level of execution can vary. Even in this category.


Part two: movements and body control

When it comes to controlling their core and executing precise movements across all planes, Adele has a slight edge over Sofia. Adele shines with her multidimensional movements—highs, mediums, and lows—showcasing a level of body control that stands out. Both skaters exhibit strong control, but Adele's ability to maneuver across various planes sets her apart.

If a judge prioritizes the softest glide with deep edges, long strides, excellent balance, high speed, diverse turns and steps, and superior flow, Sofia might come out on top for SS. On the other hand, a judge who values the highest level of body control, deeper edges, high speed, varied turns and steps, smooth glide, great balance, multidirectional movement, very good flow and superior acceleration/deceleration might lean towards Adele in SS. Ultimately, the clarity of their performance can depend on the specifics of each competition day.

Both skaters are truly remarkable, and I absolutely adore them. I’m so grateful just to have the chance to watch them perform. I’d be heartbroken if there were no streams to catch their incredible routines.

Astounding but the analysis on flow fell apart to me. Also disagree on choreographic issues. Your following step sequence commentary however was stellar and more technically sophisticated than what I would produce, unfortunately... I must study on the specifics of edge changes so we can delve further on the issue in the future. I continually mean to do this but procrastinate. That is your category alone for now.

About flow... Sorry but it is not about who has better flow but if it is even worth comparing.

Sofia is amazing, but she is an elevator music merchant like Valieva. She has flow because if she didnt have flow with her music then there will be no point in even skating. Petrosian masters each style under the sun executed in tandem. She is literally rebuilding her deck for every season and still demonstrates choreographic density and transitional sophistication beyond every girl now on ice. Never before seen in skating. Even with Kostornaia despite possessing the ballerina-bombshell dichotomy in between there was nothing. With Adeliia it is a spectrum without breaks, not a binary.

Next we can analyze the "flow" of my buddy driving down the street and pro rally racer. We can conclude my buddy is the better driver because of his flow. Give Mr. Rally Racer my buddy's car on the street and it will feel like you're in a hovercraft. Likewise set Adeliia to Strauss and watch the entire belle-epoch resurface before your eyes. Of course, if Akateva's one trick pony runs fastest her scorecard will show, but I am interested in skill not numbers.

Yametova as the outliar for multidimensionality. You are speaking about choreographic tempo rather than in the artistic or temperamental sense? I can understand. However Zhilina next to Petrosian in BODY CONTROL? Maybe elaborate. I genuinely don't know what you mean. Zhilina is not a dancer or really a musical empath comparable to Adeliia in any sense. Yurova I will not debate, I am not an expert in juniors like you presumably are. The claim seems so outlandish that I unsarcastically concede you know something I dont about her.

Interesting you made the right call on Akateva limiting Dani-G in composition but then put choreography on his shoulders entirely? Its the same issue. Adellia's cognitive dynamics are more plastic - her mind holds more information and combines it more effectively. Her kinaesthetic memory is more efficient. Akateva will stutter when handling multiple subconscious processes. Akateva is an intellectual no doubt but in the conscious sense. As opposed to subconscious multitasking required for multidimensional choreography in which Adeliia could be a genius. Its demonstrable. Akateva has exactity but it doesnt preclude her programs suffering thematic and choreographic separation. Even from memory, I still compartmentalize Akateva's programs by section. I remember 3 distinct separations in her last FS. With Adeliia however despite also operating under multiple tracks and sharp musical rests, her programs are in my mind as a gestalt. Reminisce on the thematic and musical combinations Adeliia has exhibited in single programs now question if you are thinking of them as a unit or under reduced sections. Now see if the same occurs with anybody else under comparable musical demand.

Overall a very sophisticated analysis from you. I see a lot of points I made earlier being expanded upon much deeper than I did. Also an astute observation about Plushenko's skaters weakening under low tempo. I never made this specific connection. I am not trying to criticize you harshly with my post, it is just useless to write out everything I agree with. There is only a point in conversing about disagreements here. Overall a really good post.

P.S.

Akateva's SS - I am sure it will not diminish. As her size and maturity increase SS will only follow. Its clear to me already from her recent SP performances and the open training. It is absolutely unthinkable to me Akateva is going to be less than inarticulably beautiful on ice any time soon - the question is only if she will be challenging Adellia technically by the Olympic season.

I also agree her balance is better than Petrosian and maybe anybody. Her relative core and hip strength may be unparalleled.

 

[uwoawuwoa]

Next we can analyze the "flow" of my buddy driving down the street and pro rally racer. We can conclude my buddy is the better driver because of his flow. Give Mr. Rally Racer my buddy's car on the street and it will feel like you're in a hovercraft. Likewise set Adeliia to Strauss and watch the entire belle-epoch resurface before your eyes. Of course, if Akateva's one trick pony runs fastest her scorecard will show, but I am interested in skill not numbers.

The analogy doesn't quite apply because both Adele and Sofia are elite skaters competing against each other in an aesthetic sport (same). Your driving buddy and the pro racer aren't in the same class and he would most likely be absolutely crushed in pure speed by the pro

Judges judge by what they see on the day and in the program. They aren't watching Adele maintain flow in 20 different musical mediums on the day. On the competition day if Akateva has impeccable flow in two elevator music programs (short and free) while Adele is doing a tango with great flow in the short and one elevator music program with less flow than Akateva in the free. Sofia will overtake her in flow for both since Akateva didn't show a program showcasing less adaptability than Petrosian. That's her saving grace as singles skaters are not required to skate multiple musical mediums or themes that don't suit them like ice dancers have to. She can do 2 elevator music programs until the end of her career.

Let's take a look at the flow before a jump element like 3F.

Akateva has better flow as she moves her head, arms, and feet with a steady smoothness. She glides and takes longer strides on each foot when alternating feet a maximum of 2 times doing a counter, then 3-turns into her flip. She has continuous movement thus having high connection in movement before her jump element. She doesn't leave a stretch of empty space at all. The flow throughout the body is continuous smooth and steady with high efficiency while staying at high speed.

Adele has good flow with beautiful movements of her arms and head until she choctaws and stills them at her sides immediately. Rather than continue her flow of movement she focuses on setting up her 3F. She takes shorter strides and alternates feet about 6 times doing a choctaw, randomly toe pushes as she's changing edge from inside to outside (for absolutely no reason because it was unnecessary) and then 3-turning back to the inside edge as she takes off to a beautiful 3F.

For better flow in her upper body she should keep her gorgeous soft gentle arm movement she had going (she's usually a pro here so I notice when she slightly let's go). For better flow in the feet matching Akateva, when Adele hops from her left foot to the right in the beginning she could have held that edge (she had enough speed, momentum, and has good rhythmic knee action) then choctaw back to the left foot alternating feet 3 times max with no toe push when changing of edge and into her 3-turn. Doing that would match her but instead she hops from left to right, cross stepping back to the left foot with a short stroke, then back to the right foot breaking that flow and level of of ease and efficiency that Akateva gets from two good long strokes into her counter and 3-turn taking off into a flip while maintaining high speed. Adele isn't always like this, but these are some of the times I'm referring to where flow could be improved when going head to head against Akateva. On her own Adele is fine here and is still skating with speed and ease.

Back to being good at different styles of music....

Adele is good across different genres of music while Akateva gets lost however when Sofia is back in her domain of elevator music she has stronger flow weaving the elements together better with smooth continuous movement with higher efficiency throughout.

If you'd like to debate flow across several different styles of program (a fun upbeat tango, another Mulan style program, etc) when it comes to Adele vs Sofia that's not happening at the moment for Sofia. Thankfully Dani G does not give Sofia Akateva programs that doesn't fit with her angel like compartment anymore so we most likely won't ever debate it

We will instead have waltz and more nice programs like "Clouds" that fits Sofia's soft ethereal aesthetic and plays with her strength.

Elevator music is where she thrives and there's nothing wrong with that in my opinion but of course you can disagree if you feel a skater should be able to adapt to various musical styles instead of dominating just one in order to truly top a PCS criteria.

Let's keep in mind though most successful singles programs are elevator music programs. Many fans love Valieva's storm (or at least loved it before the 2022 olympic scandal), praised Aliona Kostornaia's "Angel" to the ends of the earth, and still cry over Yulia's "Schindler's list which are all in the realm of elevator music. If Adele's Viola were instrumental it too would fall under the elevator music branch and that program is also very loved (by me as well).

Sofia sticks to her strength which is better than not knowing your strength at all and looking worse than you actually are. I think that's a good thing. Her Mulan program in juniors did her no favors and I would not come to love watching her. If Dani G set her to more Mulan style music we may never have seen how amazing Akateva is on ice with slower lyrical programs and instrumentals. She'd just stay there either barely moving or moving awkwardly. It gets her the big points/scores in PCS and that's where she should stay to maximize her points. I see no issues with it. If one cannot adapt to different styles of music like other teammates why force it and lose points on the table? Aliona did this and it did not work in her favor as her PCS struggled.

Yametova as the outliar for multidimensionality. You are speaking about choreographic tempo rather than in the artistic or temperamental sense? I can understand. However Zhilina next to Petrosian in BODY CONTROL? Maybe elaborate.

No not choreographic tempo. Purely movement itself--mute the music. Remove it entirely when looking at the movements.

For "multidimension" I'm strictly speaking about the movement of the body only. The design and dimension of movement itself away from the main body core in it's usual basic upright position while utilizing full reach and stretch putting higher difficulty on the body core. This is more difficult and requires more control and unwavering confidence to do at high speed.

Now about Zhiline....

What do you mean about Zhilina? I'm confused why you may think she doesn't have as much body control as Petrosian? Was there a program you can refer me to that I can check out where she's severely lacking in control? Maybe she was injured there? Or do you mean something else going on somewhere with her? She is very emotionless so no control over her face but otherwise good control and moves very well--sharp and fast with precision. It's difficult to move as precise as Zhilina does with the same speed and accuracy.

Adeliia and Veronika can both move and accelerate with lots of speed, control that speed, and decelerate all while simultaneously moving their head, legs, and arms which requires a high level of control. If Nika lacked control she'd fall over attempting what she does with her body at such high speed.

Zhilina isn't lacking in movement and isn't far behind at all. Adele in the final pose of the gif after coming out of the loop does stretch and reach out more fully extending her arms in one direction leaning away from the body core and counters that with a high extended free leg in the other direction which is more difficult due to physical demand all the while covering more space around her straight out of her combo/cluster which is impressive (Nika did not do the moves in my gif below out of a combo this is why the twizzle is on the right foot and her loop on the left foot while Adele who is finishing a combo stays on one foot entirely. Just in case anyone is wondering what's happening in the Gifs. They are both in different sections of their step sequences). Adele is stronger, but still both are very good. With some work Zhilina can give her a run for her money (except now she has back problems flaring up again which limits movement so she may lose a bit of range if it's not fully healed when she returns).

Now about Dani G and choreo

Interesting you made the right call on Akateva limiting Dani-G in composition but then put choreography on his shoulders entirely? Its the same issue.

No not the same issue. For example, if a skater can't do a spiral that's a skater limitation issue. Element placement is a choreographer issue.

Imagine the following:

A skater can do several beautiful sets of spirals (classic spiral, Kerrigan spiral, fan spiral, skid spiral, etc). They are not limited for this specific move.

When the most intense part or note of the music happens where it would make sense to place a beautiful well held spiral captivating the audience and the judges the choreographer has the skater doing pantomime and toe steps not matching with the phrase of the music at all yet on the portion where the musical note speeds up with suspense where the miming and toe steps would make more sense he has the skater do a quick Kerrigan spiral barely lasting 1.5 seconds. That is poor element placement and bad choice from the choreographer when creating the program not a skater issue. Not saying Dani G would do this exactly, but he has had his moments with the pantomiming at the top of the program which not everyone appreciated.

I forgot her name, but in the Russian senior GP last season a choreographer inserted a "coco" music portion and had a beautiful skater smiling and quacking her arms like a chicken or flapping bird in the second half ruining an otherwise beautiful program for me. The shift made no sense in the program. Poor choice by the choreographer.

Sometimes we see skaters with wide range of skills having poor element placement in relation to the music due to bad choreography which isn't a skater problem but a choreographer problem. That is what I'm referring to and I don't view it as the same issue as it's the choreographer's choice not the skater's own limitations. I hope that clarifies.

 

[Mathematician]

The analogy doesn't quite apply because both Adele and Sofia are elite skaters competing against each other in an aesthetic sport (same).

It applies in the perspective of my focus, which is separate from competitive results. Hence the distinction:

Of course, if Akateva's one trick pony runs fastest her scorecard will show, but I am interested in skill not numbers.

Which also addresses your point:

Judges judge by what they see on the day and in the program. They aren't watching Adele maintain flow in 20 different musical mediums on the day... singles skaters are not required to skate multiple musical mediums or themes that don't suit them like ice dancers have to. She can do 2 elevator music programs until the end of her career.

And I can respond to the following with an unedited quote from my post:

Your driving buddy and the pro racer aren't in the same class and he would most likely be absolutely crushed in pure speed by the pro

Likewise set Adeliia to Strauss and watch the entire belle-epoch resurface before your eyes.

So I mentioned it is not about rebutting your argument as it pertains to Skating91's PCS analysis, who I likewise strongly adressed on most of the same points. Simply I am modifying the relevance of your comparison as it pertains to summatively assessing the vastness of their brilliance. Your analysis, being accurate in context, still by my feeling warranted expansion to avoid potential confusion in the misapplication of the same argumentation by less informed readers in understanding the skaters' holistic athletic and artistic excellence. You are correct that, program for program, Akateva's flow may be judged as superior to Petrosian's if scrutinizing the execution of specific particularities.

Observing the praise of one above another in an exclusive context, a reader may concede the validity of that specific comparison yet interject shifting the focus to a broader sense in satisfying a personally important truth. Might Horowitz challenge Rachmaninoff as the greatest ever pianist? An acceptable discussion. Though, is it remarkable that Rachmaninoff was not foremost a pianist, but a composer and simultaneously a conductor? My disposition was as such in shifting the topic from competitive scoring of flow to the greater mastery of art. If you find such an interjection irrelevant, feel free to ignore.

Adele has good flow with beautiful movements of her arms and head until she choctaws and stills them at her sides immediately. Rather than continue her flow of movement she focuses on setting up her 3F. She takes shorter strides and alternates feet about 6 times doing a choctaw...

For better flow in her upper body she should keep her gorgeous soft gentle arm movement she had going (she's usually a pro here so I notice when she slightly let's go). For better flow in the feet matching Akateva, when Adele hops from her left foot to the right in the beginning she could have held that edge (she had enough speed, momentum, and has good rhythmic knee action) then choctaw back to the left foot alternating feet 3 times...

In my research I could catch no instance of senior Akateva neglecting arm movement or breaking speed before any sort of jump in any similar way that Adeliia does in the GIF presented. Adeliia, on the other hand, demonstrated this identical mistake during her nationals performance in addition to this Spartakiad performance you have shown.

[Akateva] glides and takes longer strides on each foot when alternating feet a maximum of 2 times doing a counter, then 3-turns into her flip. She has continuous movement thus having high connection in movement before her jump element. She doesn't leave a stretch of empty space at all. The flow throughout the body is continuous smooth and steady with high efficiency while staying at high speed.

If comparing Adeliia's last season, and Akateva's senior season, then I concur that the latter demonstrates this specific characteristic of flow more often, and more consistently. Adeliia is also more often guilty of unnecessary interrupting pre-jump glides. Furthermore, Akateva maintains gliding speed more effectively and consistently. This is correct.

Moving on to your consistent following criticism of Adeliia and its presentation as an ostensive difference to Akateva:

randomly toe pushes as she's changing edge from inside to outside (for absolutely no reason because it was unnecessary)

[Akateva demonstrates] no toe push when changing of edge and into her 3-turn

Adeliia sometimes slips back into old habits from her junior days... For example, those random toe pushes... It’s puzzling to see such a skilled skater... adding unnecessary weak toe pushes.

First of all, I take issue with the comparability of your GIFs in question - Akateva following a momentous 3A in the beginning of her SP, versus Adeliia towards the end of her FS. I could find no example of Adeliia making a similar mistake in her SP last season.

Meanwhile here I discovered that Akateva struggles with a comparable mistake more than once (as Adeliia does) needlessly toe-pushing on her 3-turn into a 3F, similarly towards the end of her FS:

Figure 1 - Russian Nationals 2023, 3:54
Figure 2 - Channel 1 Cup 2023, 3:15

Let me know if you partake in any further analysis and can statically determine that Adeliia has a significantly higher rate of such mistakes. It seems so far they are 1:1 with a consistent 3-turn-toe-push on their 3F entry towards the end of their last two free skates. Neither skaters makes such a mistake in any SP recording I could find in which they perform a 3F, in their last two senior seasons. I can ascribe no benefit to Akateva's toe-push. It was, as you describe, unnecessary. If she wished to shift momentum to the left, the edge of her blade would suffice as is expected at her level. There was no rush, and she experienced no significant increase of speed. Two such examples at subsequent events leave no doubt that she is in error of habit like Adeliia.

Let me know if you find the comparison unfair because Akateva is exiting a cantilever into a combo rather than a glide into a solo 3F. I find these factors worthy of mention, however, not enough so to justify this critique of Adeliia as being particularly useful in distinguishing their skill. Both make the same mistake, and only in the same scenario.

I conclude this section on "flow" by reiterating my unchanged position that Akateva absolutely has a case to be scored higher by specialized definitions of this single characteristic. She exceeds in consistency of handwork, efficacy and speed throughout the gliding entry. I further reiterate that my entire premise is to...

concede the validity of that specific comparison yet interject with a shift of focus to a broader sense to satisfy a truth (I) feels is important: the superior holistic talent of [Petrosian]. My disposition [is] as such in shifting the topic from competitive scoring to general affluence for music, art and mastery.

Moving on.

We will instead have waltz and more nice programs like "Clouds" that fits Sofia's soft ethereal aesthetic and plays with her strength.

Absolutely! I have many times elucidated my massive appreciation for Akateva as a skater. Her programs are just splendid, and her personality is immensely likable - she is one of my favorites.

elevator music is where she thrives and there's nothing wrong with that in my opinion but of course you can disagree if you feel a skater should be able to adapt to various musical styles instead of dominating just one in order to truly top a PCS criteria.

I absolutely don't think there is anything wrong with such a strategy. I can think of no skater but Adeliia who managed to so prodigiously evade being defined by any genre. She is one of one - something I ceaselessly expound on. I am particularly passionate about Petrosian's talent, but I am not short of respect for Akateva:

It is absolutely unthinkable to me Akateva is going to be less than inarticulably beautiful on ice any time soon

I sympathize entirely with the interpretation that I may have been intentionally harsh or at least dismissive towards Akateva. I suppose it isn't sufficiently obvious the praise I imply by even efforting to seriously compare her with Adeliia. There is no other active skater who can be justified such a discussion. In fact, Akateva may be my second favourite skater, depending entirely on Muravieva's new programs at test skates. Regardless, from an analysist's perspective I see no case for her to be considered as anything less than the second best active skater until proven otherwise, regardless how much pessimism the less informed might drag her through over a common injury or missed season.

No not choreographic tempo. Purely movement itself--mute the music. Remove it entirely when looking at the movements... For "multidimension" I'm strictly speaking about the movement of the body only...

It is a good suggestion to review skaters without music. I argue tempo remains relevant even without an external music source. I do think I understand your point: Yametova is distinguished by her consistent, specific intentionality and control over her body during both fast and slow movement. I find no reason to argue against such an assertion.

The design and dimension of movement itself away from the main body core in it's usual basic upright position while utilizing full reach and stretch putting higher difficulty on the body core. This is more difficult and requires more control and unwavering confidence to do at high speed.

References to core strength and stability are absolutely relevant to Yametova.

I'm confused why you may think [Zhilina] doesn't have as much body control as Petrosian? [She is] sharp and fast with precision. It's difficult to move as precise as Zhilina does with the same speed and accuracy.

Adeliia and Veronika can both move and accelerate with lots of speed, control that speed, and decelerate all while simultaneously moving their head, legs, and arms which requires a high level of control. If Nika lacked control she'd fall over attempting what she does with her body at such high speed... Zhilina isn't lacking in movement and isn't far behind at all.

I believe I have identified our misunderstanding with your elaboration in the above. Perhaps you are focusing more on athleticism. I consider body control from the perspective of a dancer - a ballerina. Indeed, under competition of raw athleticism I find no difficulty imagining Zhilina beating almost anyone except perhaps the classic era Trusova.

I consider less for body control the perspective of energy dynamics and stability. Instead, I consider the cognizance of kinaesthetic minutia alongside exactity of bodily placement and versatility in movement. Under the competition of dance, Adeliia is untouched by any active skater. She is, I would perhaps controversially wager, standing on isolated ground with Valieva. Extrapolating into the future, I am fearless in the prediction that Adeliia will surpass and remain unbeaten, eventually becoming peerless; unequaled forever.

Element placement is a choreographer issue.

I am not arguing whatsoever that Dani G or any choreographer remains unfaulted in cases of poor programming.

For example, if a skater can't do a spiral that's a skater limitation issue. Element placement is a choreographer issue.

I suppose again we are operating from different perspectives...

In cases of inappropriate elemental planning the skater is unfaulted. However expert cohesion of the finest choreographic elements can be limited by the skater's neural plasticity. The choreographer has no effect on this. He can establish an appropriate combination of choreography for the chosen music, reductionistically; gestalt's burden rests on skaters' shoulders. I can add that all of our elite ladies are unquestionably capable of gorgeous programs under a willing choreographer - nobody is below the intellectual threshold of producing extreme beauty.

Still when approaching excellence or genius there is a deterministic factor. We accept the determinism of a skater's incapability to develop Valieva's 180 degree Biellmann, for example. Why be troubled in likewise acknowledging the intellectual demands of choreography?

I must assume we are considering separate conditions. Perhaps you are considering from the reductionist perspective required of judges applying numerical scores to the immaterial nature of choreographic expression?

Another possibility, you consider that diamonds like Adeliia are in excess of what is required for effectively perfect score-cards? Proper choreographic treatment will result in near-flawless scores from any elite lady? Exceeding such an expectation is then irrelevant to your current analysis dealing with score-cards alone.

Otherwise, I remain confused in where the misunderstanding might exist. I am unsure how the following confuses:

Reminisce on the thematic and musical combinations Adeliia has exhibited in single programs now question if you are thinking of them as a unit or under reduced sections. Now see if the same occurs with anybody else under comparable musical demand.

Is Dani-G responsible? Why was he incapable of producing the same with Akateva, or others? Where we find massive technical disparity between junior and senior seasons, it seems that contrastingly this artistic phenomena concerning Petrosian reaches to her furthest roots which I can remember. The correlation does not give me any sense that it is a choreographer's effect. Genius is untrained, it is a blessing. Akateva, again, intellectually deviates still even from the other elite crowd. I described her as an introverted Shcherbakova - lacking sympathy for the crowd, but more thoughtfully and gently personally expressed. I actually like Akateva more and consider her more talented than Shcherbakova. I have called her a genius before and stranger things have happened than if she surpasses Petrosian.

I am only questioning patterns we see between different skaters; investigating large data sets about a single choreographer we discover massive disparities on intangible factors of artistic & proprioceptive cohesion. I am unsure what might be your alterative explanation for such observations.

I forgot her name, but in the Russian senior GP last season a choreographer inserted a "coco" music portion and had a beautiful skater smiling and quacking her arms like a chicken or flapping bird in the second half ruining an otherwise beautiful program for me. The shift made no sense in the program. Poor choice by the choreographer.

Agaeva. My complaints followed each performance of this program. She exuded an uncharacteristically classy charm for juniors, alas a coarse intercession loomed...

Sometimes we see skaters with wide range of skills having poor element placement in relation to the music due to bad choreography which isn't a skater problem but a choreographer problem. That is what I'm referring to and I don't view it as the same issue as it's the choreographer's choice not the skater's own limitations. I hope that clarifies.

Indeed, we are incessantly privy to choreographers' shocking and unusual abuse of talent. I suppose you are examining specific situations in which it is necessarily the choreographer's fault, as opposed to a conjoined effort - or conjoined diseffort... In this case I agree, that choreography is not necessarily the skater's fault.

We do, though, observe statistically significant disparities which supersede any explanation external to the skater.

Thank you for the discussion. Too few find interest conversing on such detail.

P.S.

Can we merge our efforts to extract a substantive response from @Skating91 on calling a fully rotated jump "almost q".

Next time my buddy informs me that he aced the exam, I'll let him know to settle down; I mean, he almost got a question wrong!

P.P.S

Skating91, you know I mean no harm... We share an inextricable bond over skating; forum buddies, devoted forever... But come on, almost q... Its quickly going to become a meme if you don't acknowledge this egregious disrespect of Ms. Petrosian...

 

[uwoawuwoa]

Akateva’s toe push into her 3-turn in your gif was of the same style as Adele’s and so unnecessary. The Free program especially show Sofia’s cracks. A toe push does nothing good. Pushing on the toepick actually has the opposite effect.

However Adele adds extra unnecessary steps which makes the tiny issues (like the toe push, extra shifting of feet, short strokes, less efficiently, etc) more obvious and stand out over Akateva. For someone of her caliber (she likes being on deep edges and big lobes which should in itself give her top speed. And it does so she really doesn’t have to do any extra steps unless she can’t break the habit. Same goes for Sofia with the toe pick push in your gif but Akateva does not enter her 3-turn on big arcs/curves and deeper edges like Adele) and because Adele is my favorite I especially don’t want to see her keep doing unnecessary steps that can be used against her when pointing out her strengths/weaknesses. I think I focus way more on her flaws than Akateva’s flaws since I’m rooting for her improvement the most. I go over her with a fine tooth comb so that when cracks fully disappear I can see everything that improved and there are no obvious weaknesses anymore. With Sofia not so much since she’s not experimenting in musical styles like Adele. She’ll eventually iron out any wrinkles in her elevator music domain since it’s her bread and butter where she dominates. If she was experimenting with styles I would be worried (as that’s her weakness) and I’d hyper focus on Sofia’s flaws over Adele since Akateva is my favorite as well.

In the free they both do something I highly dislike before quads (and I think you may see it too). The long stillness before take off which I understand since they are getting the correct timing on the quads and don’t want to mess up such an important jump. But it’s still slightly annoying to me when watching, and the annoyance only disappears if they land the quad because then it was worth it.

When it comes to Zhiline and dance ability. I think they all take dance classes, but a dancer paired with athletics doesn’t always translate.

I heard Vadislav from the men’s is a dancer????I can’t believe it and I love him as he could become Russia’s Nathan Chen or Ilia. He is closest to 4A and jumps many quads! Incredible! I didn’t think anyone other than Ilia would ever get close but Vlad is another potential prodigy for the men. Pure athlete with lots of potential if he stays healthy. Yet please watch his free program from last season and how he moves in the step sequence. He’s super athletic and supposedly a dancer off the ice yet moves on the ice like he’s scared to fall over. He doesn’t carry the confidence of Adeliia or Nika despite being a dancer in real life.

I think Zhilina is miles ahead of him in movement and confidence of her dance ability on ice so I can’t say I’m only seeing it from just the athletic perspective. Vlad is even more athletic than her and an actual dancer yet not exuding the same level of confidence with his moves.

She could have let go and looked like him on the ice—scared to even move and very careful in movement. His dance ability doesn’t translate for whatever reason. It may be his coach too because a girl from that same team with a 3A looks as slow, scared, careful, and stiff as Vlad does when executing moves. She was in the GP series last season. I forgot the coach’s name but he is the tall tan bald man who coaches that adorable Junior girl with the heart issues this season too. I am forgetting everyone’s names this season, sorry.

Back to my point …

I do think Zhilina has dance ability. Is she lacking control in terms of dance? Dancers adjust their weight of movement and power they exert in the move (hard, soft, playful, intense) to the sound of music which Adele does while Zhilina doesn’t adjust throughout according to shifts in sound. Eh, maybe she does lack it. So from that perspective of art and dance in terms of style reflective of the music I will agree that I may be focusing on her athletic execution of the moves instead of the nuances related to dance itself.

About Adele’s jump.

“Not far from q” is quite funny because it applies to everyone fully rotating their jump. A bit less and it’s a q for everyone.

Her triple axel in comparison to herself in the past is looking more effortless and easy which is a bullet point for jumps. It’s light with a soft smooth landing. I’m happy the landing isn’t as abrupt or rough which she was missing last season. She has a nice running edge out of it at open trainings. It seems last season she was adjusting to her new body and newfound growth. She has good length on the jump but the height requirement is up to the judges.

I could see her getting +3 if she maintains that look of light and effortless with good landing and good position from beginning to end of the jump. She’s very good at timing her jump with the music so she should with a good 3A reach +3.

A +4 and +5 is up to the judge if they want to fully give her bullet point one in terms of height (I see distance but height is debatable). If they compare it to the next best skater with a massive 3A in the same event we can forget about +4 and +5.

Considering how much more height she gets on toe jumps like 4T and 4F the same can’t be said for her 3A since there’s no toe pick to assist her.

I will have to look at the GOE of international skaters with small 3A. I haven’t been watching international but I saw a video of a Korean junior who apparently is a twin and they both do 3A? Very cool! Reminds me of the Miltos but only one does ultra-c. I saw she jumps 3A but even smaller and with even less distance than Adeliia and without her musicality. I’ll check her GOE on that 3A.

 

[Mathematician]

Akateva’s toe push into her 3-turn in your gif was of the same style as Adele’s and so unnecessary. The Free program especially show Sofia’s cracks.

I'm glad you agree! Free programs in general elucidate minute shortcomings of this sort. Again, in the SP Adeliia and Sofia exit their 3A with momentum and confidence, remaining sharp and escaping habit. Contrastingly, avoiding total failure becomes the foremost concern of our thoughts as free skates end and endurance wanes. As such, the original comparison of FS to SP was incomplete; further research was required into direct comparisons. I think it was valuable elaboration to compare identical scenarios.

However Adele adds extra unnecessary steps which makes the tiny issues... more obvious and stand out over Akateva.

Yes, we have reached agreement on this long ago. I concede this superiority of Akateva's glide to Adeliia.

...and because Adele is my favorite I especially don’t want to see her keep doing unnecessary steps that can be used against her when pointing out her strengths/weaknesses. I think I focus way more on her flaws than Akateva’s flaws since I’m rooting for her improvement the most. I go over her with a fine tooth comb so that when cracks fully disappear I can see everything that improved and there are no obvious weaknesses anymore. With Sofia not so much since she’s not experimenting in musical styles like Adele. She’ll eventually iron out any wrinkles in her elevator music domain since it’s her bread and butter where she dominates. If she was experimenting with styles I would be worried (as that’s her weakness) and I’d hyper focus on Sofia’s flaws over Adele since Akateva is my favorite as well.

Aha! So we are beginning to merge on the same point I was making from the beginning. Adeliia is not playing with the rest! Its no wonder or controversy that Akateva valiantly defends her personal, isolated kingdom. A kingdom which, again, still conquers probably everyone else! How unbelievable is the talent we find in skating??

In the free they both do something I highly dislike before quads (and I think you may see it too). The long stillness before take off which I understand since they are getting the correct timing on the quads and don’t want to mess up such an important jump. But it’s still slightly annoying to me when watching, and the annoyance only disappears if they land the quad because then it was worth it.

It is a valid criticism. Adeliia and Akateva do tend to freeze often under such pressure.

Shall we venture further on this fascinating matter? Is this a particular weakness of theirs or a general struggle for quadsters? Let's find out!

Beginning naturally with our two favourites in question:

I consider the beginning single-foot glide as no freeze, it is a beautiful and light hold, generating anticipation and stealing breath from the viewers as we soar towards the jump. Neither do we expect twizzles into a 4F! However, her extended arms freeze during the 3-turn as if carefully holding something? It is awkward. On principle, I actually prefer such a position as opposed to the standard T-pose every girl freezes into. This could be a uniquely beautiful entry, but the near absolute freeze is off-putting. Why not slowly lift her arms into said position, then quickly swing down to the hips and back up for momentum? It would be beautiful. Or, she could begin at the apex and slowly decline to her hips from which she then likewise swings in.

Akateva, her arms are unfrozen, unlike Adeliia's - a serious distinction; yet the general entry holds no dynamics. I can see a case for it to be considered above Adeliia, being so effortless and escaping awkward breaks, despite its simplicity and lacking excitiement. Consider also though that this is a 4T compared to Adeliia's 4F... Close... but at face value I think I prefer Akateva's!

Now lets look at the classic era quadster trio:

Shcherbakova is reminiscent of Akateva, though the hand-over-head into the 3-turn renders her the best so far, notwithstanding an arguably inferior flow to Akateva (or should we say Akateva is reminiscient of Shcherbakova? We are speaking about the Olympic Champion!). Remember the observation: Akateva is an introverted Shcherbakova? I am noticing it more!

In these entries we observe strikingly similar cognitive planning, alongside equally wonderful distinctions in their external personality! Notice Shcherbakova's explosivity and flare, juxtaposed with Akateva gentler, intelligent and smooth flow into a similarly impressive takeoff.

[Akateva is] an introverted Shcherbakova - lacking sympathy for the crowd, but more thoughtfully and gently personally expressed.

And we continue

Distinct to all aforementioned skaters, Valieva doesn't freeze or hold any sort of pose whatsoever. She drops her hands as if there is no care for the jump. I cannot even judge her dynamics because there are none. For this reason she is my least favourite in this context. I can not even comment on anything; nothing is happening. Consider also these are 4S and 4T - not even a 4F!

And unsurpsingly my favourite today:

Intelligent, effective, gorgeous turns as she builds momentum, letting her arms follow the bends of her knees. The handwork holds no tension, remaining elegantly dynamic. The formerly discussed artists - hypnotized in their contemplation of a jump's personality, negotiating for compromise... Ignatova - ceaselessly baring herself forward as David to Goliath! No judgement, no questions, and no fear!! There is only charge by the sword for Ignatova leaves desolate once soaring banners of the 4F!! To at once lull and liven the ice in one entry... We are unsurprised given her temperament and athletic superiority. Her unparalleled physical gift allows easy mastery in circumstances under which others freeze or flounder.

In conclusion, I find your critique entirely valid, though not necessarily separating the two from anyone but Ignatova.

Akateva walks the easiest road to perfection here, without stutter or distinct freeze but merely a lethargic atmosphere. I am not detecting poor subconscious habits in her case - which are the most dangerous factors potentially encountered under stressful circumstances like a quad entry. Shcherbakova flows, and her dynamics supersede most, but there is still separation between the sections of her entry; Akateva is more seamless, she just needs to become cognizant of adding dynamics.

Adeliia's entry is more unique than Akateva, also exhibiting greater energy and dynamics, but we observes something far more concerning: habit of total freeze in the aforementioned held pose on the 3-turn. If she can fix this stutter she should be the best of the 3.

Despite even my celebration of Petrosian's talent, Ignatova's in this context should remain an isolated case.

When it comes to Zhiline and dance ability. I think they all take dance classes, but a dancer paired with athletics doesn’t always translate.

I heard Vadislav from the men’s is a dancer... Yet please watch his free program from last season and how he moves in the step sequence. He’s super athletic and supposedly a dancer off the ice yet moves on the ice like he’s scared to fall over. He doesn’t carry the confidence of Adeliia or Nika despite being a dancer in real life.

Yes. But I am speaking about transferring dance on ice to off ice, rather than vice versa as with Dikidzhi.

I've seen clips of Adeliia's off-ice dance training, directly next to Akateva and some leading Tutberidze girls; she is noticeably beyond them. I haven't actually seen Dikidzhi's dancing outside of TikTok gimmicks; is he really a dancer or just an intermediate hip-hop enthusiast?

I often make the dance comment to elucidate my criteria as being similar to such an art as opposed to sport, rather than directly measuring them as literal dancers, which would be impossible given variety of genre and also useless since they are skaters, not dancers.

Yes, I mentioned the two in a competition of dance, but I present it as a reasonable thought experiment further elucidating my approach, rather than a literal suggestion. For example, we may conclude Zhilina's strictly athletic competitivity, independent of skating, yet we aren't suggesting a gymnastics tournament.

Recall my criteria, by which I then simply draw parallel with a ballerina as opposed to a sportsman:

I consider less for body control the perspective of energy dynamics and stability. Instead, I consider the cognizance of kinaesthetic minutia alongside exactity of bodily placement and versatility in movement.

I also don't recall implying that Zhilina "lacks" in any way, simply that under the above criteria she is incomparable to Adeliia.

Under the competition of dance, Adeliia is untouched by any active skater. She is, I would perhaps controversially wager, standing on isolated ground with Valieva. Extrapolating into the future, I am fearless in the prediction that Adeliia will surpass and remain unbeaten, eventually becoming peerless; unequaled forever.

So here I should have perhaps elaborated on my intention with "competition of dance".

In any case, I think you understand my position now quite well. If we consider exactly as such, perhaps you might sympathize with my initial shock in comparison of Adellia and Zhilina? Macro-physicality exists with the latter in debatably comparable magnitude, but not the finer dynamic gentleness as described in the previous quotes.

Like with Akateva, there is no dismissal of Zhilina - simply Petrosian flies above.

I think Zhilina is miles ahead of him in movement and confidence of her dance ability on ice so I can’t say I’m only seeing it from just the athletic perspective. Vlad is even more athletic than her and an actual dancer yet not exuding the same level of confidence with his moves.

I am doubtless that Zhilina supersedes comparison with Dikidzhi.

Indeed, you may be considering past raw athleticism, I wouldn't ever accuse you of lacking dimensionality in your analyses! Ponder on Zhilina even further under my criteria, compared with Adeliia, which was the original issue - see if we might agree.

A +4 and +5 is up to the judge if they want to fully give her bullet point one in terms of height (I see distance but height is debatable). If they compare it to the next best skater with a massive 3A in the same event we can forget about +4 and +5.

I do not believe the 3As she demonstrated in the discussed open training are worthy of +5, especially if considering Kostornaia or Muravieva for that matter. I hope few if any perceived such a suggestion from my commentary.

I was debating with Skating91 about her general scoring and potential to break the world record. She would not require +5s across her entire elemental repertoire, but average 4s for toe-jumps (absolutely reasonable) and her 3A remains an easy +3 if she executes it as seen in the clip above.

Some may struggle with my appeal to possibility, but, recall in context that Skating91 explicitly allowed me the best case scenario. Furthermore, considering her improvement from finals to pre-season, we do have empirical data to support extrapolation into the future that the aforementioned GOE is reasonable. I also mentioned that she has earned 4s in previous seasons, during which she was significantly weaker, so the suggestion is supported by data although far from proven - something I never contradicted.

Supplementally, your quote:

Considering how much more height she gets on toe jumps like 4T and 4F the same can’t be said for her 3A since there’s no toe pick to assist her.

P.S. The extensive analysis required for my last reply proved most valuable to my understanding of figure skating. Thank you for challenging me. I only now realize my developed efficacy in StSq analysis, resulting from the research I completed on edge changes and turns to properly assess the skills of our two favourites.

 

[Skating91]

Ok, so its fully rotated, which you called "almost a q". Amazing. Dont compare Kostornaia's 3A to the other two. Muravieva's 3A is way bigger than theirs as well. And now we can ignore your comment that they upload the best example. Here is here other one finally, maybe also a +1 and "almost q"?

Yeah looks almost a q. She does well to hold it. You can see the jumps are becoming much harder for her now.

 

[Remilia]

are you guys writing academic essays here some interesting stuff to read

 

[Mathematician]

You can see the jumps are becoming much harder for her now.

Although Petrosian is improving what I saw of her looks great it looks like she's improved since last season.

...yet Petrosian's motivation seems higher than ever. The short clips I saw would suggest she has improved since the last season which is impressive. There's a lot of fight in her.

Yeah looks almost a q.

Dude, a landing requires an EDGE. You dont judge by the pick hahahaha.

Does an axel have an outside takeoff PICK and outside landing PICK?

Does a flip having an inside takeoff PICK and outside landing PICK? Lets check by assessing Valieva's CURRENT WORLD RECORD using YOUR LEVEL OF SCRUTINY.

THIS IS LITERALLY A 3F ENTRY DUDE:

Where is she going???

I guess prime Valieva couldnt even land a 3F fully rotated. Thats not almost Q thats not even a real jump.

But in motion it looks mostly fine:



Let's see Adeliia. Here's her worst of the two executions which you have fixated on, judging from the EDGE, because you cannot have a takeoff PICK, you have a takeoff EDGE, and you have a landing EDGE.

And the good one now:

Dude, I dont know if you think I was sarcastically patronizing you with my kind words towards the end of one of my last posts. You are one of my favourite people here to analyze with, and you share most of my dissident opinions which get me ostracized by most of the bigger circles here. We agree on most things, and few people here are actually passionate about skating, but you are, which I always related to.

Adeliia's improvement is a conspicuous truth. In any case though you cannot even claim ignorance because you are caught now saying Adeliia is getting better multiple times just 2 days ago under the context of the exact same clips - why the sudden switch? So at this point I have no other option but to conclude that you are saying these things in an attempt to get me upset on purpose because you misinterpreted some of my words as hostile.

Hostility was not my intention at all, I genuinely like you. I can get sarcastic for sure, but I thought since we are well acquainted you will understand I am just sparring with you. Its cheeky and I expected you to return with the same disposition so we can have some laughs in our conversations over some witty digs. If you felt offended its my fault and I apologize and I will refrain from doing so in the future. I just couldn't understand why you were calling her normal 3A a q, why not just give her credit? The problem is that it follows a consistent pattern with your posts about Adeliia. Last season consistently predicting she will get too big, and how she is so unstable, now Akateva is better without quads, she doesnt deserve high GOE, her PCS wont grow, etc... I honestly understand you are pessimistic about skaters in general, its a fair attitude, but I wish you would support your claims if you are going to engage on why I'm wrong. Maybe you dont want to get your hopes up, or maybe you just dont like operating under assumptions and ambiguity. But then why always predict negatively? Why not just remain conservative but open? I am an ultra-optimist, unlike most, but you need to engage with the specifics of my extrapolations and not just make claims (well, you dont HAVE to do anything). I was trying to have a discourse with you and fundamentally understand your position towards Adeliia specifically and why its so harsh. You were harsh with Akateva too last season, quite certain she cant recover form, or she might also grow too much, but even still when compared with Adeliia she is the superior skater. Its a valid opinion but you must support it. It was frustrating because you wouldn't give an elaborate answer. And now you are making claims specifically to get me upset, which maybe would have actually worked, if I didnt have evidence that is exactly what you are probably doing. If you actually changed your opinion on the exact same data then let me know why. In any case, despite my sarcasm (my kind words were not sarcastic, though playfully hyperbolic, the premise was sincere), I was never actually personally upset with you or trying to subvert you.