2024 CS Lombardia Trophy Men's FS
- Thread starter dorispulaski
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- Apr 2, 2016
I LOVE Ilia’s long but I’m also here for camp. Ilia is camp and dramatic and I love it. Let people skate what they want to skate to- I’m here for young athletes breaking down people’s expectations. The last minute was FIRE. If this is what it looks like in September, it’s going to bring down the house at Boston.
i am not happy about ilia now having the best PCS over this field. There are quite a few skaters who have better components than him.
I am willing to give him kudos for his intensity in his performance but that's just one aspect of it. In my world, Ilia is 10 points lower in PCS than Yuma.
He'd still win it... it doesn't matter. He should win it... but i will never agree with this kind of scoring... and no, I am not anti-Ilia. I am anti giving him things he doesn't yet deserve... that's all
He doesn't deserve Hanyu, Chan, Uno PCS. Never has and never will. It's not about winning, its about clean judging and avoiding teaching young skaters that poor skating skills may be rewarded.
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- Mar 7, 2015
I would add so many names to the list of skaters who are definitely ahead of Malinin in PCS. That's just the reality, except for Lombardia judges.
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- Mar 14, 2007
Yes!
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- Dec 5, 2015
After watching the top 5, I think the programs this year are, in general, pretty good matches for the skaters.
Malinin's program is kitschy but he clearly likes it. It is empty but that is, sadly, very common among top senior men focusing on their jump content. Still probably the best free he has had because he is committed to the limited choreo in the program. The jumps are clearly incredible. He deserves the win but definitely not the PCS scores he got. I can see high scores in performance but the choreo in this program is pretty limited and his skating skills are the worst, by far, among the top guys. (Sarah Everhardt's biggest weakness is also her skating skills..this is something that their coaches clearly don't prioritize. ) Hard to justify anything over an 7.5/8 in the SS and choreo categories.
Yuma's program is nice and its a good music choice IMHO. He has room to grow into his program and the he clearly isn't quite ready with the technical content yet. He should still be getting much higher PCS than Ilya just because the complexity of the program and his SS are just so much better.
Shun's FS was the best of the night IMHO. I prefer the SP to the FS and based on his comments Shun does too. But, he is very committed to the choreo in this program, too. Nice lines, nice edges and SS. Ready to perform. It irks me a bit that he got the same PCS as Muira who has an empty program and showed almost no musicality. Muira and Malinin are similiar in PCS IMHO (Muira has better SS and Malinin showed more commitment to the choreo but they should be getting similar overall PCS). Shun, though, is definitely ahead of them in all PCS categories. I think, like Matteo Rizzo, Shun might get lower PCS because he has lovely edges but isn't the "fastest" skater. I would like to remind the judges there is more to PCS than speed.
As mentioned Miura's program is pretty empty and he really showed no musicality in this program. It is probably the least suitable choice among the top men here. Still, it could be an ok program if he tries to listen to the music. He is very fast and jumps very high...but those aren't the only skills you need to create an interesting program...
Jimmy is always fun. I can't help but root for his wacky, unpolished programs. He did well. I hope he can be a bit more consistent this season.
Malinin's program is kitschy but he clearly likes it. It is empty but that is, sadly, very common among top senior men focusing on their jump content. Still probably the best free he has had because he is committed to the limited choreo in the program. The jumps are clearly incredible. He deserves the win but definitely not the PCS scores he got. I can see high scores in performance but the choreo in this program is pretty limited and his skating skills are the worst, by far, among the top guys. (Sarah Everhardt's biggest weakness is also her skating skills..this is something that their coaches clearly don't prioritize. ) Hard to justify anything over an 7.5/8 in the SS and choreo categories.
Yuma's program is nice and its a good music choice IMHO. He has room to grow into his program and the he clearly isn't quite ready with the technical content yet. He should still be getting much higher PCS than Ilya just because the complexity of the program and his SS are just so much better.
Shun's FS was the best of the night IMHO. I prefer the SP to the FS and based on his comments Shun does too. But, he is very committed to the choreo in this program, too. Nice lines, nice edges and SS. Ready to perform. It irks me a bit that he got the same PCS as Muira who has an empty program and showed almost no musicality. Muira and Malinin are similiar in PCS IMHO (Muira has better SS and Malinin showed more commitment to the choreo but they should be getting similar overall PCS). Shun, though, is definitely ahead of them in all PCS categories. I think, like Matteo Rizzo, Shun might get lower PCS because he has lovely edges but isn't the "fastest" skater. I would like to remind the judges there is more to PCS than speed.
As mentioned Miura's program is pretty empty and he really showed no musicality in this program. It is probably the least suitable choice among the top men here. Still, it could be an ok program if he tries to listen to the music. He is very fast and jumps very high...but those aren't the only skills you need to create an interesting program...
Jimmy is always fun. I can't help but root for his wacky, unpolished programs. He did well. I hope he can be a bit more consistent this season.
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- Aug 16, 2018
Well, that was quite a showdown for... (checks calendar), early September. We barely started the season and we already have a Worlds-esque top skater showdown for the men!
But that brings me to an observation: Ilia and his team came to Lombardia with a mission to deliver this statement. And that statement was delivered. To be that ready this early in the season, they clearly knew the Top 3 of Japan was attending Lombardia and brought the fight to them, especially Yuma. I can't really remember if male rivals (specifically reigning 1st and 2nd at Worlds kind of rivals, rivals from different coaching teams) have ever met this early in the season. Hanyu and Chen mostly left each other alone until GPF (and even then, Hanyu missed a couple of GPFs) and Worlds (they don't even attend 4CC most of the time). So this feels... purposeful and intentional. Add to it Ilia's selection of his GPs, and I think we have a very savvy competitor in the reigning World Champion right now.
In terms of programs, I feel like it's too early in the season for me to judge them comprehensively.
But that brings me to an observation: Ilia and his team came to Lombardia with a mission to deliver this statement. And that statement was delivered. To be that ready this early in the season, they clearly knew the Top 3 of Japan was attending Lombardia and brought the fight to them, especially Yuma. I can't really remember if male rivals (specifically reigning 1st and 2nd at Worlds kind of rivals, rivals from different coaching teams) have ever met this early in the season. Hanyu and Chen mostly left each other alone until GPF (and even then, Hanyu missed a couple of GPFs) and Worlds (they don't even attend 4CC most of the time). So this feels... purposeful and intentional. Add to it Ilia's selection of his GPs, and I think we have a very savvy competitor in the reigning World Champion right now.
In terms of programs, I feel like it's too early in the season for me to judge them comprehensively.
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- Mar 21, 2018
I wouldn’t have said it last season, but I think he has a realistic shot. One could have a good argument for him placing second here and I absolutely think he should have at least beaten Kagiyama in the SP. Regardless, he was only about 5-6 points away from Kagiyama’s PCS across both programs and that’s significant because the TES is even enough. My first impression is that he has better programs than Kagiyama too and sells them better. Judges like him.
Funnily enough, though, Sato will find it harder beating Kagiyama domestically than internationally. NHK is going to be interesting. Home ice, but international judges.
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- Jan 28, 2013
Later to the party than most. On Ilia:
These are not music choices I would make. I wouldn't listen to either on its own.
But, as much as I dislike them - especially the short - he does skate to them well. I felt as though I was watching something authentic, rather than seeing an actor following stage directions.
I enjoyed watching the programs to the music much more than listening to the music... if that makes sense.
If he continues on this trajectory, he'll be very hard to beat this season. The FP 4Z aside, the jumps were ten kinds of smooth, racking up pretty healthy GOE I imagine. And I suspect he's got some base value he isn't showing yet.
These are not music choices I would make. I wouldn't listen to either on its own.
But, as much as I dislike them - especially the short - he does skate to them well. I felt as though I was watching something authentic, rather than seeing an actor following stage directions.
I enjoyed watching the programs to the music much more than listening to the music... if that makes sense.
If he continues on this trajectory, he'll be very hard to beat this season. The FP 4Z aside, the jumps were ten kinds of smooth, racking up pretty healthy GOE I imagine. And I suspect he's got some base value he isn't showing yet.
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2006
Was at Bergamo and it was fun, though the free skates were mostly long 4 minutes... Some brief thoughts.
Aleksandr Selevko apparently can really take on any style and make it his own - not a fan of single skater tangos, but this one I can watch, hope to catch it clean late in the season.
Many of the latter two group's frees were very very long 4 minutes (Vinokur, Egadze, Ma etc.). Tried hard to not start looking at my phone.
Not sure if Miura has what Cherbourg would require. Very empty for the most part.
Sato's free was better than his short as a choreo, but it is weird how there is very little glory in his skating. he does not fill the ice like some do, he looks tiny out there.
The same cannot be said of Yuma (who is smaller than Sato). I am pretty hard on Spanish themes (just check my handle pic and you see why), but this one gets my approval. The slow first part hides the jump entries adequately and the change of pace and intensity for the last minute or so was just phenomenal! I would like to see them fix his hands, though. They were very often very ugly.
Ilia's Vampire was built roughly the same way, but the first part was just a little bit tedious despite the quadfireworks. Somehow the tension released in the steps and ChSq just did not build enough. But the last minute was very good indeed. I agree with many that giving him the best PCS was a bit of a joke, Yuma should have gotten them no doubt about it.
E
Aleksandr Selevko apparently can really take on any style and make it his own - not a fan of single skater tangos, but this one I can watch, hope to catch it clean late in the season.
Many of the latter two group's frees were very very long 4 minutes (Vinokur, Egadze, Ma etc.). Tried hard to not start looking at my phone.
Not sure if Miura has what Cherbourg would require. Very empty for the most part.
Sato's free was better than his short as a choreo, but it is weird how there is very little glory in his skating. he does not fill the ice like some do, he looks tiny out there.
The same cannot be said of Yuma (who is smaller than Sato). I am pretty hard on Spanish themes (just check my handle pic and you see why), but this one gets my approval. The slow first part hides the jump entries adequately and the change of pace and intensity for the last minute or so was just phenomenal! I would like to see them fix his hands, though. They were very often very ugly.
Ilia's Vampire was built roughly the same way, but the first part was just a little bit tedious despite the quadfireworks. Somehow the tension released in the steps and ChSq just did not build enough. But the last minute was very good indeed. I agree with many that giving him the best PCS was a bit of a joke, Yuma should have gotten them no doubt about it.
E
I thought the music was glorious. The small but sharp details in the choreo that are in sync with the music were not lost on me, and I would like to see him doing that more often. I have high hopes for this program and if he can work hard and nail everything to the highest standard while pressing himself to skate "bigger" as he sweeps the ice, he will make quite the statement on what it means to be a total package skater. I wish him well and hope to see this program become everything I know it can be.
Agree. To me, the story of Lombardia was that Shun came ready to play and nearly got second overall and distanced himself from Kao. Three out of the seven judges' scores were higher for Shun than for Yuma in both the SP and LP. Of course, Yuma had minor TES errors, but they were much closer than expected. I do expect Yuma to score higher and higher though as the season progresses, and we'll see the gap widen.
I think Kao needs to put together two good skates very soon. He seems to be on a downward trend, and momentum counts for a lot. When I first heard that he was skating to Cherbourg, I thought it'd be a good stretch for him, but he did not fit his movements to this music style very well. His interview also makes it sound like he's injured, which is not great.
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- Aug 16, 2018
This is actually pretty realistic. Personally I think Shun would have a better chance next season (and wouldn't that add more intrigue to the Olympics!) if he manages to finish this season as the clear #2 in Japan (decisively passing Kao, Sota and Kazuki) and finally break that 300+ total score on his own. I thought it was significant that there are judges who already are willing to put Shun above Yuma for this competition, especially thinking of their current reputation (Yuma: reigning World silver (and 3x Worlds silver), Shun: hasn't made it to the senior Worlds team yet)
Also yes- domestically Japanese Nationals is a different beast. Then again, Yuma has a history of faltering and making small but significant mistakes at the Japanese Nationals when he arguably had a strong case to finish above Shoma in 2021 and 2023, so who knows.
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