2024 U.S. Nationals Senior Women's Free Skate

[taikwan]

Just adding - and Milan is right around the corner.

 

[JeanA]

They absolutely have to send Amber Glenn and Isabeau Levito to Worlds. Period. Sure, Ava could win/medal at 4CC but with the Japanese and Koreans that's a tall order. And it would be unfair to Levito who wasn't even put on the team if she wanted to redeem herself. And who knows, Levito might just end her season after yesterday if she chooses, similar to Kevin Aymoz.

To get three skaters back for Worlds, they need 13 or lower. I'm not seeing that happening. But to keep two spots all they need is 28 or lower, which seems (crossing my fingers) very doable. Placing 13th and 14th will do the trick. Even if one of the two doesn't qualify all the other skater has to do is place top ten. And if Glenn or Levito can't even do that, then we deserve to have only one spot.

 

[Minz]

Okay so if we don’t get the third spot at this worlds this year, then we can still get it next year and have three spots for the Olympics but we’ll have to confirm at Nebelhorn.

Regarding Isabeau, I think only time will tell. But I hope that she is able to do well.

 

[ramurphy2005]

They absolutely have to send Amber Glenn and Isabeau Levito to Worlds. Period. Sure, Ava could win/medal at 4CC but with the Japanese and Koreans that's a tall order. And it would be unfair to Levito who wasn't even put on the team if she wanted to redeem herself.

Because of the timing, I think interested skaters had to tell the selection committee that they wanted their hats in the ring, at least that was my reading of things. So, I think because of already making one trip to China for the GPF, I could easily see Isabeau not wanting to take another long trip like that so soon after the first one, and that's even before everything happened this week.

 

[midori green]

Lindsay seems to always have a look of either terror or disinterest when she skates. How did Johnny Weir describe her? I'm not sure what she needs to do to stop giving off that impression. She seems to be an inward and introverted skater. A coach can't just push her out on the ice and tell her to smile and say "Sparkle, Lindsay, sparkle!!!". Some people don't want to sparkle or are incapable of it.

She looks more calm this season (as opposed to scared to death/about to cry or puke). I don't think she'll be one to project out to the audience. What she needs to do is invite the audience in to whatever she is feeling/portraying. This year's programs (especially the short) are a step in the right direction. I agree that she can't be pushed to smile and sparkle. I'd go with the approach of "show people you're enjoying what you're doing" for facial expression.

Thinking about it, Jason Brown tends to be more of an "invites you in" vs a "projecting out" skater during his programs. They seem deep and introspective, but he grabs you and lets you join the experience. He shifts more outward during his bows/waves and seems to have an outgoing personality in general, but his performance style is different. Of course, Jason Brown-esque performance is a lofty goal for anyone, let alone Lindsay, but my point is you don't have to project outward to improve performance/audience engagement.

 

[JeanA]

Okay so if we don’t get the third spot at this worlds this year, then we can still get it next year and have three spots for the Olympics but we’ll have to confirm at Nebelhorn.

I'm not exactly sure how Nebelhorn works. I know you can earn one spot for a country at the Olympics by placing X (6th? 10th?) at Nebelhorn, but I don't know if, say, the US who earned 2 spots for the Olympics/Worlds can get a third spot by placing at Nebelhorn. Can anyone clarify that?

I'm also not sure what is going on with the ISU and Russia. Is a Russian allowed to compete next season as Unaffiliated Skater from Russia or however they want to call it? I assume only one will be allowed to compete at Worlds next year, but if that skater, say Petrosyan places top two then they earn three spots for the Olympics/Worlds? Or could they earn three at Nebelhorn that year if they sweep the podium there? That's beyond my level of knowledge on the subject.

 

[Crowdproud]

I'm not exactly sure how Nebelhorn works. I know you can earn one spot for a country at the Olympics by placing X (6th? 10th?) at Nebelhorn, but I don't know if, say, the US who earned 2 spots for the Olympics/Worlds can get a third spot by placing at Nebelhorn. Can anyone clarify that?

It works like this: Imagine, the two US women at Worlds place 5th & 8th = 13 points. In a non-Olympic year, it would simply mean that they earned 3 spots for the next Worlds. In terms of Olympic qualifications, however, it would mean that another US woman would have to go to Nebelhorn the next fall and place top 6 among the skaters trying to qualify for the Olympics.

This is what Vincent Zhou had to do when he unexpected bombed out of the Worlds SP in 2021. By not qualifying for the free, he thus "lost" the 3rd Olympic spot for the US. However, Nathan's and Jason's placements were such that the Nebelhorn route was open for the US and Vincent was able to secure a 3rd spot by placing 1st in the competition.

 

[JeanA]

Thank you for the explanation. But, more questions, since there were three men at that Worlds (as opposed to two for the US women who place 6+9=13) why would Vincent have to go? I understand how because there were only 2 US women at Worlds that someone else had to go to Nebelhorn to get that allotted third Olympic spot (Alysa Liu). But there were three US Men at that Worlds already. Did Vincent (or whoever) have to go to Nebelhorn because he did not qualify for the free skate? And if he had been one place higher in the short and advanced to the free skate that he (or whoever) wouldn't have had to go to Nebelhorn?

I think I understand it, but if you only have two competitors at the previous Worlds (Karen Chen and Bradie Tennell) that earned three spots, then a third woman whoever it is needs to place top 6 to solidify the extra spot. But why the US men, who had three spots at the previous Worlds need to solidify a third spot? Just because he didn't advance to the freeskate and didn't get any final placement at that Worlds? Because the third ranked Russian woman Trusova or any Russian didn't have to go to Nebelhorn to solidify their third spot.

Along those lines, if UnaffiliatedRussian Petrosyan places top two at next year's Worlds and earns three spots for Olympics, then two other UnaffiliatedRussians will have to go to Nebelhorn and place top 6 to solidify those additional two spots, right? So we're back to three (Unaffiliated) Russians at the next Olympics? That won't help the other countries hoping to solidify their spots (or even to get an Olympic spot) by placing top 6 at Nebelhorn if there are already two UnRu's there, for sure. Plus if by a miracle the two US women at next year's Worlds qualify three skaters, they'd have to send another US woman to compete there.

I think I have this straight now. I hope....

 

[Crowdproud]

Along those lines, if UnaffiliatedRussian Petrosyan places top two at next year's Worlds and earns three spots for Olympics, then two other UnaffiliatedRussians will have to go to Nebelhorn and place top 6 to solidify those additional two spots, right? So we're back to three (Unaffiliated) Russians at the next Olympics? That won't help the other countries hoping to solidify their spots (or even to get an Olympic spot) by placing top 6 at Nebelhorn if there are already two UnRu's there, for sure. Plus if by a miracle the two US women at next year's Worlds qualify three skaters, they'd have to send another US woman to compete there.

I think I have this straight now. I hope....

Regarding Vincent Zhou, yes, it was important to whoever was 3rd in the rankings (out of three participants) to advance to the free, regardless of placement.

Regarding the hypothetical Russians, yes, placing 1st or 2nd at the pre-Olympics Worlds by the country's sole entry earns 3 *potential* spots at the Olympics, which would need to be solidified at Nebelhorn. That would leave only 4 other spots for all other countries trying to qualify spots they were unable to get at the previous Worlds -- assuming the two other Russian women grab 2 out of the top 6 at Nebelhorn.

The US have a chance this year to earn three spots for the pre-Olympics Worlds, if the US team (presumably Amber & Isabeau) place to earn 13 points or less, which I think they are capable of. Then at the 2025 Worlds, they would just need to maintain the three spots, w/o needing to go to Nebelhorn. Keeping three spots seems easier then earning an extra spot.

 

[TontoK]

Jackie reporting that the World's team will be Isabeau and Amber.

So, I guess they didn't wait to see how Ziegler skates at 4CC. Fair enough, I guess.

Edit: It appears that they ARE waiting until after 4CC to name any alternates in any discipline.

 

[Jontor]

Oh, just realized that US women only have two spots for Worlds. That's a pity as I think the only medal chances US have is Levito/Thorngren. And it will obviously be Levito/Glenn going to Worlds.

 

[labgoat]

Regarding the other ladies in the field I have these observations

• Alex Evans strong skater
• Brooke Gewalt looks both Lisa Marie Allen and Ashley Cain
• Soho Lee had the most incredible white dress with the perfect skirt, amazing talent at 14 years old

 

[Maribelle]

Well Amber wasn't perfect, but she did enough. I thought between the two programs she was the deserved winner. I'm so pleased for her.

And great for the couple of young skaters who did so well!

But I think people have to remember how much less pressure they had on their shoulders than Glenn, Levito and Thorngren. Skating as a young kid when you have nothing to lose is much, much easier than under the weight of expectations.

The top skaters going to world have to toughen up.

 

[Maribelle]

I think it was a mistake for NBC's Andrea Joyce to interview Levito before she skated her long program. I think it could have interfered with her focus. In the future, the skaters should refuse interviews before they skate. Also, cameras following around the skaters during their warmups should also be not allowed.

 

[rain]

The top skaters going to world have to toughen up.

A lot of people can find that attitude very toxic, and it actually erodes their confidence and resiliency rather than strengthening it. We've come a long way in understanding mental health and how important it is, but unfortunately in sports culture we often still lag far behind.

 

[Jeanie19]

I think it was a mistake for NBC's Andrea Joyce to interview Levito before she skated her long program. I think it could have interfered with her focus. In the future, the skaters should refuse interviews before they skate. Also, cameras following around the skaters during their warmups should also be not allowed.

That should never happen. Skaters need that time to warm up physically and emotionally.

 

[Skater Boy]

They absolutely have to send Amber Glenn and Isabeau Levito to Worlds. Period. Sure, Ava could win/medal at 4CC but with the Japanese and Koreans that's a tall order. And it would be unfair to Levito who wasn't even put on the team if she wanted to redeem herself. And who knows, Levito might just end her season after yesterday if she chooses, similar to Kevin Aymoz.

To get three skaters back for Worlds, they need 13 or lower. I'm not seeing that happening. But to keep two spots all they need is 28 or lower, which seems (crossing my fingers) very doable. Placing 13th and 14th will do the trick. Even if one of the two doesn't qualify all the other skater has to do is place top ten. And if Glenn or Levito can't even do that, then we deserve to have only one spot.

Well Ava gambled and lost even before she skates. Isabeau and Amber are going to worlds. And truth be known even if Ava won i t is against a watered down Japanese team. Korea has been very inconsistent this year too so it was not impossible or is not impossible for her to beat them I guess she would need two very high scores to merit any consideration even then her body of work is much less than Amber or Isabeau. If Levito and Glenn skater their best they could be like third and fifth maybe even second with some luck. They won't lose two spots. Even if one skater wd or did poorly that is 16 pts so the other skater just needs a 12th to hold on to two spots. Russia doesn't have three or any ladies so no worries about holding on to the two spots. I wonder how Ava is feeling.

I don't think about the comment that Isabeau could pull an Aymoz. This is hardly the same circumstance.

 

[JeanA]

They won't lose two spots. Even if one skater wd or did poorly that is 16 pts so the other skater just needs a 12th to hold on to two spots.

Actually, if a skater withdrew or did not make the 24 cut to the free program they would be assigned 18 points, so the other skater would have to place top ten. There should be no excusable reason for the US to lose two spots. But otherwise I agree with your post.

 

[skatingguy]

I think it was a mistake for NBC's Andrea Joyce to interview Levito before she skated her long program. I think it could have interfered with her focus. In the future, the skaters should refuse interviews before they skate. Also, cameras following around the skaters during their warmups should also be not allowed.

Top athletes have to learn to deal with the media, and that includes interviews before, during, and after competition. That being said, I don't think the interview had anything to do with how Levito skated, and speculating about the reason without some insights into her practices leading up to the event is meaningless.

 

[Skater Boy]

Actually, if a skater withdrew or did not make the 24 cut to the free program they would be assigned 18 points, so the other skater would have to place top ten. There should be no excusable reason for the US to lose two spots. But otherwise I agree with your post.

Ah okay; I thought it was 16 my bad. Still I have faith they will get at least two if not 3 spots.