2024 U.S. Nationals Senior Women's Free Skate

[throw_triple_flip]

Regarding scheduling, I agree that it is odd that the women don't get a day off in between like the other disciplines, and an inequity that the others do. I'm not sure it is a terrible disservice, though, as I don't think this is something the women are unused to. Don't they skate on back to back days on the Grand Prix? It would be unfair if it were a surprise change, but they are aware and can prepare accordingly. (I may also be mis-remembering the grand prix schedule and maybe they don't skate on back to back days??)

At most of the big championships it's usually the Pairs that don't get a day off. Which is arguably the discipline where they need it the most.

 

[Jammers]

Can anyone tell me why the Women skate back to back days while the men get a day off in between programs? I’d think giving the Women Thursday and Saturday and the Men Friday and Sunday would make the most sense and create the best opportunity for skaters to be rested and capable of showing their best efforts. Not only that I’d imagine having the Men and Women Spread out so that each day will feature one of them would likely help keep the attendance up Each day?

Am I just being ridiculous again for asking such questions?

Through 2017 that was the schedule for US Nationals the Ladies had Thursday and Saturday nights and the Men had Friday nights and Sunday afternoon all to themselves. For some reason they changed it in 2018 and have never gone back to the old way and now the Ladies are the only ones to not get a day off. The Men now are having to skate their SP on Friday in the middle of the day when everyone is at work. I mean really USFS?

 

[Skating91]

Most improved-IMO- Mia Kalin. While there is room for improvement, I felt she was lowballed on PCS compared to other skaters. Also loved seeing that Lindsay T. has greatly improved her speed across the ice, she looks to be adjusting to growth this year in addition to the injury.

A stable 4T makes her a contender.

 

[Skating91]

Just found Isabeau's free skate on youtube. That was a hard watch. She just looked so YOUNG when she reacted to her skate. So used to this girl with a confidence beyond her years that you often forget her youth.

I hope she doesn't see the comments under the video. So much spite, much of it under the guise of 'concern'. But the concern is just an excuse to criticise her jump technique and make unfounded allegations about her coaches. Not really about her wellbeing at all.

The age for seniors should be 18 and ultra-c should be somehow discouraged from junior females if not banned. The trouble is it will have to be banned from seniors too to discourage it from juniors. It is the only way otherwise they will still train ultra-c in preparation for seniors but not perform it.

We're going to look back in 5-10 years and wonder how we ever put 15 and 16 year old females through this for our entertainment and amusement. She should be in juniors working on the fundamentals instead it feels like we're watching someone who has already peaked because the form is going backwards. It's no-one's fault it's industry wide all over the world. I'm complicit in this too as someone watching and making comments.

Apart from the jumps (and spins now), Isabeau is great to watch she brings a lot of natural charisma and she will have this for the next decade if she skates that long, so there is huge upside for her if she can fix her current flaws. Hopefully she can. The spins I don't know what is going on, but the jumps are a real struggle now with the landings she has very few fully rotated landings. At international level in a small fed the officials would really pick it apart.

 

[statmam]

Please can you tell me what she said? I missed her interview as I am watching the world feed(and rocking out to Outkast arena music).

In her interview with Andrea Joyce, Amber said that both she and Isabeau were capable of so much more. She also talked about the crushing weight of expectations put on young skaters who succeed as juniors (which seemed to implicitly reference both her own past experience and Isabeau's current situation). It was a kind and gracious statement to make in her moment of victory.

 

[icewhite]

Isabeau was 4th at Worlds last year and did well on the Grand Prix. Of course they will send her! Ava should have skated at Nationals if she wanted a chance at the World team.

was it her decision to go to 4CC though, or did the fed say she should do it?

 

[rain]

Just found Isabeau's free skate on youtube. That was a hard watch. She just looked so YOUNG when she reacted to her skate. So used to this girl with a confidence beyond her years that you often forget her youth.

I hope she doesn't see the comments under the video. So much spite, much of it under the guise of 'concern'. But the concern is just an excuse to criticise her jump technique and make unfounded allegations about her coaches. Not really about her wellbeing at all.

Whoever (and it could be a considerable list) let her get to this point with that jump technique has a lot to answer for, IMO. I thought she looks like she has really worked to improve her speed, but she puts on the brakes into the jumps, which have not changed or improved at all. I would guess they don't want to do anything about her jump technique at this point because she's gotten this far and it would mean a serious overhaul, if she could even change technique at this point. I'm not even entirely sure what led to last night's disastrous skate. It kinda looked like her legs collapsed under her? Anyway, that's not for me to figure out.

To your point about how young she looked, it's because she is still very young. Once again, so many expectations placed on someone so early. Nobody should be made to feel like they have to carry the entire American women's program, but that's what the fed (and many of the fans, unfortunately) have always done the moment a girl shows some promise.

As for Amber, she popped the triple in the 3-jump combo then couldn't seem to figure out fast enough what to do and the moment was gone when she could have salvaged a combo out of it, at least. Then on the flip she clearly just rushed it. I'm not sure if her team has a plan for what she'll do if she has a problem on that combo, but they should, since that's where the biggest point deficit came from. If she'd even managed to do a double-double-double she would have won the free skate. (She was deservedly far ahead of Josephine Lee in PCS.)

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I know she is recovering from injury, but Lindsay always gives me nervous Anna Pogorilaya vibes with her facial expressions. She seems to love to skate, but competing seems to make her hold her breath and not breathe until it is over.

She has IMO the most excellent extensions and command over her movements from this field. She flows very smoothly from element to element but it’s the little flourishes and powerful accents she adds in between that really stood out to me, if I were to compare her skating style to someone from 2014 era it would be more of a Carolina Kostner in terms of the individual movements. She’s not selling her programs like Caro with her face and hamming it up to the crowd just yet. That’s not what I’m saying. It’s how she powerfully executes her turns and adds very meaningful transitions into and out of her choreography. Her entrance into her axel in the SP is a great example (Except that she popped it ). With Lindsay everything seems very deliberate and precise. I think she was a cut above everyone in the field in regards to skating skills and turns and edges but unlike Anna Pogorilaya (who had excellent skating skills) Lindsay isn’t going to randomly fall and splat spectacularly in the middle of the choreography. I know it’s not worth points but the sound her edges make when she’s making a deep cut was noticeably deeper than anyone in the final group IMO.

I saw some comments saying she seemed disconnected from her program too but I found her movements to be very engaging and her skating full of purpose. A true world class talent with probably one of the best foundations of anyone at this event to build on for years to come.

A real shame about the jumps this week because they are gorgeous in person. During warm ups and practices I thought Lindsay and Clare had the most control over their jumps which I’ve always kind of believed to be an indication of a good reliable technic.

 

[Jammers]

In her interview with Andrea Joyce, Amber said that both she and Isabeau were capable of so much more. She also talked about the crushing weight of expectations put on young skaters who succeed as juniors (which seemed to implicitly reference both her own past experience and Isabeau's current situation). It was a kind and gracious statement to make in her moment of victory.

I don't think Amber had that much pressure on her after she won Juniors a decade ago. Certainly not like Gracie who was being called the ONE while still competing in Juniors. No US Lady has had the expectations in the last 15 years that people had in her and while Gracie obviously had her problems living up to her enormous talent just a year after winning Juniors she came within a couple of points of winning Senior Nationals in her first try and even finished in the top 6 at Worlds and helped along with Ashley to get the 3rd spot back.

 

[JeanA]

Yeah, exactly, and with USFS, sometimes it has worked out with youth (Tara, Sarah, Kimmie). Other times, it worked out with veterans (Michelle, Kristi).

With today's age rules, Tara Lipinski, Sarah Hughes, Kimmie Meissner, and Alysa Liu would not have even been allowed to compete as seniors (and incidentally neither would Michelle Kwan who would have been stuck in Juniors and not allowed in Nagano 1998 and would have had to wait until she was 21 to make her Olympic debut). All of their careers ended (actually or effectively) before they turned 18. Other countries have this bad reputation of having their skaters end their careers by that age, but the US isn't any better. However, those countries have skaters that ended their careers because they were displaced by better or more advanced skaters below them. Many of those skaters would still be competitive if they skated for other countries like the US. If the 2018 Olympic Champion Alina Zagitova or 2015 World Champion Elizaveta Tuktamysheva of today would have competed at US Nationals this week they likely would have placed first and second at USNationals.

Isabeau Levito is giving me very strong Kimmie Meissner vibes, actually. Maybe this performance/season is a one-off, but it sure is looking like Meissner's trajectory.

 

[chuckm]

What threw Meissner off-track was the triple axel.

 

[SmileHappy34]

Yes there is pressure but that comes with national champ and medaling in events
This skate from Isabeau reminds me of Michelle Kwan 1997 loss to Tara Lipinski.
They wasn't as kind to Michelle Michelle was Isabeau age at that time 16 years old.
They made fun and mocked her
Michelle want only skater one of 15 year nationals and world champ to lose title at 16. I think part of reason despite clean not win OGm .
Tara was defend world champ.


Thank goodness times changed because I felt for Isabeau. I felt for Amber skate..
Most U.S.women are young when they win it defend it.

 

[JeanA]

Just seen the results, went completely nuts.

To go from that heartbreaking free at Skate America to finally becoming US national chmapion.. all in a matter of a few months. What a story.

Wasn't Amber's heartbreaking free at Skate America almost identical to her US Nationals winning free?

I'm happy for Amber. I think she is the strongest US skater right now and I admire her resilience and longevity. And, a win is a win. One of my favorite Olympic gold medalists is the Australian speed skater Steven Bradbury. He made the finals and knew he had virtually no chance at the podium. So he deliberately skated slowly behind the favorites, watched them all fall right in front of him, and stayed on his feet to finish first. Brilliant. If Amber wins like that, it works for me.

Edited to add the YT link. Bradbury just lets all of his competitors go ahead of him and hope for the best in the end. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAADWfJO2qM

 

[JeanA]

I know she is recovering from injury, but Lindsay always gives me nervous Anna Pogorilaya vibes with her facial expressions. She seems to love to skate, but competing seems to make her hold her breath and not breathe until it is over.

Lindsay seems to always have a look of either terror or disinterest when she skates. How did Johnny Weir describe her? I'm not sure what she needs to do to stop giving off that impression. She seems to be an inward and introverted skater. A coach can't just push her out on the ice and tell her to smile and say "Sparkle, Lindsay, sparkle!!!". Some people don't want to sparkle or are incapable of it.

 

[JeanA]

As for Amber, she popped the triple in the 3-jump combo then couldn't seem to figure out fast enough what to do and the moment was gone when she could have salvaged a combo out of it, at least. Then on the flip she clearly just rushed it. I'm not sure if her team has a plan for what she'll do if she has a problem on that combo, but they should, since that's where the biggest point deficit came from. If she'd even managed to do a double-double-double she would have won the free skate. (She was deservedly far ahead of Josephine Lee in PCS.)

If I were to advise her, I'd tell her to get the big combinations out of the way in the first half. Do 3axel/3flip-toe/3loop-2a-2a/ 3salchow in the first half. Then she has only three jump passes where she can tack on an easy 2toe to any of her next passes (preferably the first one) so the last half can be ///3lutz-2toe/3flip/3loop. They should consider that layout IMO.

 

[Cilla70]

There were signs during the Grand Prix already -- she fell out of a spin; fell on a combo & had trouble getting back into the program; poor showing (relative to earlier events) at the Grand Prix Final; etc.

At Nationals, you could see that she could not sustain an edge out of a jump and just sort of sat down, as if she had no power in her legs. Plus the spin issue in the short. It was unsettling to watch.

I agree. I wonder if it could be an issue of stamina. Hope her team is also concentrating on appropriate diet, weight training, running, etc. She is probably going through puberty and her training program needs to be adjusted. Sending out positive vibes for Worlds.

 

[R.D.]

...I think she was a cut above everyone in the field in regards to skating skills and turns and edges but unlike Anna Pogorilaya (who had excellent skating skills) Lindsay isn’t going to randomly fall and splat spectacularly in the middle of the choreography. I know it’s not worth points but the sound her edges make when she’s making a deep cut was noticeably deeper than anyone in the final group IMO.

I saw some comments saying she seemed disconnected from her program too but I found her movements to be very engaging and her skating full of purpose. A true world class talent with probably one of the best foundations of anyone at this event to build on for years to come.

Funny you mention Pogorilaya because I viewed her the exact same way, until I saw her live in 2016. I finally understood what some fans were saying, and (sort of) why she was scored the way she was.

What threw Meissner off-track was the triple axel.

I don't think it was that so much as it was overtraining and burnout. Compounding the issue was raised expectations following an unprecedented win that she probably could never realistically live up to.

 

[Jontor]

Oh dear. To be honest, I haven't seen any of the performances, but I have seen the protocols. What happened here??

Amber - so she wins with a 9 jump program. Again, she fails to do all the jumps. Like many American girls, she seems to have no Plan B. To be fair to Amber, she did do all the jumps in GP Finland. Well, she popped the Axel, but she managed to do the rest. And see, that is her seasons best result! Doing the whole program, and somehow have a Plan B, that's what you do if you are going to Worlds!

Isabeau - did she really fall three times?? I have always been scared of Isabeau's technique and thought that she would lose it already last year. But she has proven me wrong. Or has she? It seems that these bad performances kinda comes more often now.

Lindsay - still the best American women skater today. I was surprised at how low her score was when her tech wasn't that bad. I think the lowballing in PCS is that she gives out insecurity vibes. She reminds me sooo of Butyrskaya.

I guess Glenn and Levito are through to Worlds. I just hope that the US Fed realizes that the only option for the 3rd spot is Lindsay. Lindsay is the only one with a chance at a medal. If they are sending Andrews or Seo, the US Fed really don't have a clue....I would except Everhardt though.

 

[LazyFuzai]

Well summary of TOP 3:
I.Levito:The entire season looks much worse than last one.Not interesting programs + and perma getting nervous.Before she starts free you could see her heavy breathing and on the jumps her legs were very soft.Seems she really can't handle the pressure while being on a lead (same thing at GP France where she nearly drops her first win.Don't think so she will be much of a threat at Worlds with this skating.Hope to improve her mental for next season.

J.Lee:For sure promising one for the future.Typical 16y doing tango energetic music,but was well done and clean.Not being over her skills what's really important.Hope to see more of her.

A.Gleen:Love her short and still don't know why she isn't more like Loona and keep her both programs in this style instead of trying to be ballerina which she isn't for sure.Lovely 3A,well trained with hitting every try on practice.That's how you do it Hana.On the other hand she always has to miss something and those missing jumps are too much if she want to fight at Worlds.Probably overscored a bit as well,but it's just American school of judging

 

[taikwan]

So.....what's going to happen at World's? Will we actually be in danger of repeating limited to just 2 spots for Women's,,,,,or dare we even think, ONE? I'm happy for Amber but she is notorious for breaking under pressure - actually it happened today too. So....we can only send two ladies to Montreal. They have to go with at least some of the podium but the reality is we're heading for disaster for the future. The selection committee is going to be condemned no matter what they decide to do.