Replay Lounge 2025 Skate America

[elbkup]

Now this won't get out of my mind about them so I think it's as well to spoil you the same way?

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The Umbrella Coup - Wikipedia

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OMG!!!

 

[throw_triple_flip]

In our case Skate America is out of the questions because:

1. American border requirements and persistent information of harassment on the border for the Canadians, including phone searches
2. American politics
3. Unrest in American cities
4. Where this Lake Placid even is?
5. Seriously, no Malinin?
6. And who else is there?
7. Still no Russians...

When Russians were competing there were attendance problems at competitions in many countries. Male skaters don't exactly draw in massive crowds in the USA. Even world champions. Your theory about the USA- do you actually know Canadians had trouble at the border? They didn't exactly show up in their droves to Skate Canada either. And people did travel for Worlds in Boston. The political situation isn't much different.

 

[lariko]

When the Russians were competing there were attendance problems at competitions in many countries. Male skaters don't exactly draw in massive crowds in the USA or most other countries. Your theory about the USA- do you actually know Canadians had trouble at the border? They didn't exactly show up in their droves to Skate Canada. Your other points about the States are a bit exaggerated. If people wanted to go to the States to watch skating that would be unlikely to stop them.

Yes, they had statistics that show that Canadians' travel down to US had shrunk -- only a few days ago -- because of border delays and because States percieved as not a good place to visit, they specifically canceled check on Canadian border for air travellers and yes, they search phones now. It certainly stopped Mom and I. We striked out States from the list of countries we'd travel to until that country normalizes internally and its relationship with Canada improve. Plainly put, we hate Trump and Trump's America.

Quote: October marked the 10th straight month of decline in the number of Canadian travellers to the US. Air travel from Canada to the US dropped nearly 24%, while car travel fell more than 30% when compared to the same period last year, according to data released this week by Canada's statistics office.

The US is not yet as hostile to us as they are toward other countries, but they are not welcoming either.

If Russians were competing, it would override many other considerations for me. I'll probably do a tour once they achieve a near full representation and try to go to two events a year afterwards, not just Skate Canada.

 

[4everchan]

It happened that way because there is not enough skaters and four years didn't change the simple fact that the pool is too shallow. There is a way to boost ranks with accomplished, hungry skaters. I am sure ISU can devise another convoluted rule set for it to happen. They are great at devising the rule sets.

I am not so sure that there is not enough good skaters... Now that I am looking at things... there was enough talent in men to have a great event. In women, the final group was great... the problem came from some of the former stars being injured or not quite fit this season yet, Wakaba, Haein, Chaeyeon and Hana for instance. In men, the quadsters just didn't do well (Daniel, Misha and Memola) .. If these skaters had performed better, we would have a different discourse.
In pairs, well, I was expecting that. I have mentioned it earlier in this thread but the American pairs are in some sort of a phase where landing things is not consistent. Thus, when you have a field with 8 teams, three of which are American (including one team coming back from injury and one just out of juniors team) it's bound to happen that there is less depth. So in that, sense, the pairs field was weak indeed but bring in the competitors from the other circuit and still, it wouldn't have changed the field entirely. You'd still have 3 American teams, and a couple teams not from that circuit . ...

 

[lariko]

I am not so sure that there is not enough good skaters... Now that I am looking at things... there was enough talent in men to have a great event. In women, the final group was great... the problem came from some of the former stars being injured or not quite fit this season yet, Wakaba, Haein, Chaeyon and Hana for instance. In men, the quadsters just didn't do well (Daniel, Misha and Memola) .. If these skaters had performed better, we would have a different discourse.
In pairs, well, I was expecting that. I have mentioned it earlier in this thread but the American pairs are in some sort of a phase where landing things is not consistent. Thus, when you have a field with 8 teams, three of which are American (including one team coming back from injury and one just out of juniors team) it's bound to happen that there is less depth. So in that, sense, the pairs field was weak indeed but bring in the competitors from the other circuit and still, it wouldn't have changed the field entirely. You'd still have 3 American teams, and a couple teams not from that circuit . ...

when you have enough great skaters, injured skaters don't have to compete.

 

[4everchan]

when you have enough great skaters, injured skaters don't have to compete.

well I don't think some of these skaters I have mentioned would have given away their spots.
Wakaba was a seeded skater
Haien and Chaeyeon were both top ten last year.

 

[lariko]

well I don't think some of these skaters I have mentioned would have given away their spots.
Wakaba was a seeded skater
Haien and Chaeyeon were both top ten last year.

Yes, but the substitutes would be coming at Litvintzev's level building up a better middle tech group (or better). And, well, some seeded skaters wouldn't be seeded or make top ten in an overall stronger field. Replace any three weakest with a Russian contender, and we have a strong cast of 12 and a cool competition. You want artistic, they have artistic. You want 2 quads in the short and 3 in the free, they have that too now. Just like it's unthinkable to remove American team or a Japanese team in its entirety without hurting the field, removing Russians is hurting the field. It has to be deeper for GP to work around the middle.

 

[Mathman]

There are plenty of good skaters. Plenty of up and comers capable of giving crowd-phasing performances. Plenty of skaters who would jump at the chance to compete at a high level event.

 

[4everchan]

Yes, but the substitutes would be coming at Litvintzev's level building up a better middle tech group (or better). And, well, some seeded skaters wouldn't be seeded or make top ten in an overall stronger field. Replace any three weakest with a Russian contender, and we have a strong cast of 12 and a cool competition. You want artistic, they have artistic. You want 2 quads in the short and 3 in the free, they have that too now. Just like it's unthinkable to remove American team or a Japanese team in its entirety without hurting the field, removing Russians is hurting the field. It has to be deeper for GP to work.

Well... I understand what you are saying but to me, this conversation goes beyond sport and I don't think we can discuss it on this thread. I frankly do not miss a lot of the shenanigans that came with it. So to me, it's almost more enjoyable this way. Of course, just my opinion. Finally, to me, it starts at JGP level and I haven't felt their absence at all there in terms of level. It was a very strong season in all disciplines and I enjoyed myself very much.

 

[lariko]

There are plenty of good skaters. Plenty of up and comers capable of giving crowd-phasing performances. Plenty of skaters who would jump at the chance to compete at a high level event.

If so, how come Circeli, Economides and Dai made it into the senior GP? Kapeikis is an American spot, okay, but come on.... they really no longer have men who can jump a 3A and a quad? Back in 2020 Mozalev barely got one spot in GP with a JW title, 3A, a quad and a decent PCS, and was seventh with 100 points in tech in the free. He would have won bronze here with his combined score, and at the time it was considered a fail.

 

[lariko]

Well... I understand what you are saying but to me, this conversation goes beyond sport and I don't think we can discuss it on this thread. I frankly do not miss a lot of the shenanigans that came with it. So to me, it's almost more enjoyable this way. Of course, just my opinion. Finally, to me, it starts at JGP level and I haven't felt their absence at all there in terms of level. It was a very strong season in all disciplines and I enjoyed myself very much.

There is even more shenanigans now for pity's sake!

And omg, Lazarev, Fedotov, Kolesnikov, Kovtun etc would have been a decoration of any JGP event, trust me, not to mention Dzepka, Pleskacheva and Kostyleva. And the pairs, oh my god... junior Russian pairs are amazing. They even have really good junior dancers now.

You don't miss them because you don't see them. JGP would have been far stronger with cleaner skating and by far, by far more to see in junior men.

 

[lauramartha3]

I was watching 2nd night (LPs) on Peacock (which is only way I can watch figure skating), when halfway through FD, it cut out (in middle of Chekia ice dancers) and went to start of second group of FD, with awful Tara and Johnny commenting (all they talked about were USA skaters and 'inevitability' of Chock and Bates winning the Olympics -- even though Gabriella Papadakis was enamored of Lopareva and Brissaud and said "I wish I could have been skating their program"). I loved L and B, as well as Canadian duo who finished 2nd. Why, after all British commentators for all previous ISU Grand Prix events did 'Skate America' switch to horrible T& J and interminable ads between skaters???? I was really enjoying Chris Howarth et al (who were generally 'country-free', and didn't talk during performances!!!), but Skate America was awful, from performances to use of Gannon/Tara/Johnny (who I really can't stand). Did "Peacock" or ISU send second-rate crew to Lake Placid? I hope they send BBC crew to Finland and to Grand Prix Final.

 

[TontoK]

Japan does not want Rinka to score high and win this GP, because that would add another complication to their Olympic team selection process, with their Nationals podium likely to be occupied by Kaori, Mone and Mao Shimada- meaning it will fall on Japan to choose a senior skater for that 3rd spot and it's always a traumatic process for them without an eleventh hour challenger complicating things.

Wait. What? Please explain exactly how the Japanese federation benefits from having FEWER choices for their Olympic/World/4CC rosters. Logic dictates that they'd want a pool of as many great skaters as possible fighting for those spots. Intentionally and unjustifiably dumping one of them to de-traumatize their selection process seems nonsensical.

 

[lariko]

Wait. What? Please explain exactly how the Japanese federation benefits from having FEWER choices for their Olympic/World/4CC rosters. Logic dictates that they'd want a pool of as many great skaters as possible fighting for those spots. Intentionally and unjustifiably dumping one of them to de-traumatize their selection process seems nonsensical.

Unlike Russians who liked hunger games for selections, Japanese seem to want stability and predictability so their athletes can focus on their goal tournament for as long as possible. They hand out their assignments right at their nationals with like a certificate. I was amazed when I saw it.

 

[Ares]

Yes, they had statistics that show that Canadians' travel down to US had shrunk -- only a few days ago -- because of border delays and because States percieved as not a good place to visit, they specifically canceled check on Canadian border for air travellers and yes, they search phones now. It certainly stopped Mom and I. We striked out States from the list of countries we'd travel to until that country normalizes internally and its relationship with Canada improve. Plainly put, we hate Trump and Trump's America.

Quote: October marked the 10th straight month of decline in the number of Canadian travellers to the US. Air travel from Canada to the US dropped nearly 24%, while car travel fell more than 30% when compared to the same period last year, according to data released this week by Canada's statistics office.

The US is not yet as hostile to us as they are toward other countries, but they are not welcoming either.

If Russians were competing, it would override many other considerations for me. I'll probably do a tour once they achieve a near full representation and try to go to two events a year afterwards, not just Skate Canada.

What phone searches?

 

[saine]

What phone searches?

These ones - https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/us-canada-device-searches-1.7619944

 

[FlyingFeather]

Some random thoughts after finishing watching the competition:
Ice Dance: the decades themes need to go. A return and revision of the SD rules is much better for the sport than the RD. A forced theme with less technical requirements really undercuts the teams growing as artists and makes it harder for fans like me who have never skated to understand the scoring, IMHO. Anyway, the most enjoyable team for me to watch in the RD was surprisingly the Browns. C/B's RD has grown since the beginning of the season. B/H--Phebe is consistently best dressed---creative and beautiful, not vaguely "this looks edgy and hip, right?" like most teams. M/M--can't stand rock or the thought of AI music, but the energy, commitment, and speed is undeniable. I think/hope that they rise to the top next quad. Didn't see all of their FD because of the Peacock stream, but a shame about the fall. C/P--I think this team has potential, but hope they get better programs. Instead of every program being let's be sexy/dramatic, I wonder what would happen if they tried a classical waltz to emphasize their lines and showcase musicality and skating skills. C/B--to my non-skating eye, they are clearly more precise than the rest of the field, even if Madi's edges are flatter than Evan's sometimes. That outfit does need an upgrade, the top is quite tacky and tasteless, not sure how hard it would be to line it. L/L--they have great lines, especially Marjorie.
Women: Sad because Isabeau won't make the GPF, but I completely respect Rinka's technical ability. Just prefer Isabeau because I watch more for the artistic side than the technical side. At this point, it seems the contenders for Japan's third spot are Ami, Rinka, and, depending on how Finlandia goes, Rion. Wasn't Alysa's best skate, but happy she won. I am really rooting for her. What with NBC's high pressure media campaign and general American Olympic expectations, the pressure is immense. I hope she can continue to tune it out. The more I watch Gubanova, the more I love her artistry. I did really want Lara to get her bronze, and it really was so close. I really love both skaters, a shame that they had to compete for the bronze. Happy for Starr, and can't wait to see her in pairs. Wonder who she'll team up with--Mark Sadusky would be good.
Pairs: So so happy for the Canadians. They clearly love the sport and support each other. They earned this moment. Such a shame about so many mistakes from so many teams and I am happy nothing resulted in an injury like last week. C/H--what a beautiful performance, of course will be disappointed to miss out on a medal, but their Olympic hopes are still pretty good seeing as neither M/P and E/M have citizenship.
NBC commentary--why do we still have Tara and Johnny? All of us fans have the same complaints with them every time they commentate. Have JLB and Mark instead of them and Gabi. sigh. NBC insists on continuing all the toxic qualities we are hoping to eliminate from this sport.

 

[DancingCactus]

How about we take the Grand Prix away from the US for a few seasons when they obviously cant make it work? Attendance is embarrassing, the Kiss and Cry is a Joke, apparently they can't get any sponsorship that kind of fit the topic? It's sad to watch the stream and see that half of the seats are empty.
Why not give this one and Finlandia to different European cities each year? Why is there never a Grand Prix of Germany, Italy or Spain? Why not try something different?
Sheffield was a success, wasn't it?

 

[Jammers]

I am not so sure that there is not enough good skaters... Now that I am looking at things... there was enough talent in men to have a great event. In women, the final group was great... the problem came from some of the former stars being injured or not quite fit this season yet, Wakaba, Haein, Chaeyeon and Hana for instance. In men, the quadsters just didn't do well (Daniel, Misha and Memola) .. If these skaters had performed better, we would have a different discourse.
In pairs, well, I was expecting that. I have mentioned it earlier in this thread but the American pairs are in some sort of a phase where landing things is not consistent. Thus, when you have a field with 8 teams, three of which are American (including one team coming back from injury and one just out of juniors team) it's bound to happen that there is less depth. So in that, sense, the pairs field was weak indeed but bring in the competitors from the other circuit and still, it wouldn't have changed the field entirely. You'd still have 3 American teams, and a couple teams not from that circuit . ...

American Pairs have been in this phase of not landing things for over 20 years now.

 

[lariko]

How about we take the Grand Prix away from the US for a few seasons when they obviously cant make it work? Attendance is embarrassing, the Kiss and Cry is a Joke, apparently they can't get any sponsorship that kind of fit the topic? It's sad to watch the stream and see that half of the seats are empty.
Why not give this one and Finlandia to different European cities each year? Why is there never a Grand Prix of Germany, Italy or Spain? Why not try something different?
Sheffield was a success, wasn't it?

I don't think there will be takers. Even the very ambitious Georgian Fed would likely pass. Plus, you can't 'take it away from the States. They did what they could. If they drop their stage, it would probably just go to 5 events