2025 Skate Canada Women's Short Program

[Skating91]

Sara-Maude has been pigeon-holed for her entire career with low PCS... yet, she's actually a very strong skater with good presentation.

I thought it was a tad high to be honest, but I understand it's a home event.

 

[Skating91]

Curious if others agree with the inconsistency in the calling of the jumps. You would think that a tech specialist and assistant could confer and get that right.

The tech panels are out of control. The ISU is too afraid to discipline them for getting wrong over and over.

Tennell, Guttman, Chiba, Levito all benefited massively.

Tennell didn't have a single landing that wasn't an UR or q. The Guttman lutz with the unclear/wrong edge (that wasn't called) was not far from being a downgrade yet she just gets a q plus PCS close to the leaders! Nice skater with quirky programs, but wouldn't put her skating ahead of Senuik (who they always go after).

 

[iluvtodd]

I just want to say that I am heartbroken for Maddie. I hope she can put it all together for the free skate.

May everyone skate their best in the free skate!

 

[Isk]

I would like to be a fly on the wall for that one...

This would be too dangerous...

 

[iluvtodd]

Chris, I hate to break it to you, but Isabeau is not from Philadelphia. She is a proud Jersey Girl, from Mount Holly, NJ

Go Birds, though. That’s for @el henry

Actually, we spoke to Isabeau @ the Stars on Ice "Meet & Greet" in Hershey, PA this past May. I think of her as a "Jersey Girl" of course, because of Mt. Holly & her training base, but when we told her we were from Philadelphia, she said she was actually born in Philly!

 

[lariko]

Imo, current situation leaches life out of both international and national Russian skating.

In the arena, live, I liked the most Levito, Chiba, Everhardt and Dupuis in that order. Bummer that Shiryaeva couldn't do her 3Lz3T, she had a really pretty one in practice.

 

[Isk]

Madeline Schizas' SP is just bad. The music cut is from a climactic moment in the ballet, it is strong and has certain flow, but in the program it is constantly interrupted by some horror flash-backs, so the flow of the program is interrupted and it doesn't take off.

 

[labgoat]

Bradie posted on social media that she suffered a bad nose bleed in the locker room that stained her dress and required medical treatment prior to her skate. Kudos to her for keeping her composure as much as she did and skating as well as she did. May you have no further incidents here and be able to skate the free without incident.

I read it late last night and cannot find the link again.
Update: I saw it on facebook posted by Golden Skate #skatecanada

 

[Isk]

The tech panels are out of control. The ISU is too afraid to discipline them for getting wrong over and over.

Tennell, Guttman, Chiba, Levito all benefited massively.

Tennell didn't have a single landing that wasn't an UR or q. The Guttman lutz with the unclear/wrong edge (that wasn't called) was not far from being a downgrade yet she just gets a q plus PCS close to the leaders! Nice skater with quirky programs, but wouldn't put her skating ahead of Senuik (who they always go after).

They kinda go after her, but she gives them reasons to. She has an unstable edge in her combo. She did several changes of edge between the two jumps, something Gutman doesn't do, and neither did her coach Polina Tsurskaya. It's more noticeable in real time than in replay. 2A had a hard landing, 3Lz with pre-rotation, edge pick and wrong edge take-off, and all the jumps had obvious rotation issues. Overall her technique is less than optimal.

 

[4everchan]

Madeline Schizas' SP is just bad. The music cut is from a climactic moment in the ballet, it is strong and has certain flow, but in the program it is constantly interrupted by some horror flash-backs, so the flow of the program is interrupted and it doesn't take off.

it's from Black Swan, the movie... that's why the music is interrupted with the horror flashbacks.

 

[Isk]

Sara-Maude has been pigeon-holed for her entire career with low PCS... yet, she's actually a very strong skater with good presentation.

The beginning of her program was strong, but then it became a bit monotonous, the end was underwhelming. She fought for some of the landings, edges were a bit shallow at places. I think she is working to make herself overall stronger the way she can. She is not the most consistent jumper, although her 2A has room for rotation. Also, she doesn't have either the statuesque aesthetics, or the big amplitude and power that some of more powerful skaters have, she is somewhere in-between. I am guessing this might be reflected in her PCS. Also, there is the question that Canadian women don't compete internationally very much. If their own federation thinks they are not good enough, this affects the judges, although she is probably better than this.
I thought Yuna Aoki surely deserved 9s for composition and 8s for skating skills, yet in PCS she is below Bradie.

 

[4everchan]

The beginning of her program was strong, but then it became a bit monotonous, the end was underwhelming. She fought for some of the landings, edges were a bit shallow at places. I think she is working to make herself overall stronger the way she can.

For having seen this SP before, she got too much adrenaline... and got nervous here. She was a bit wobbly.

She is not the most consistent jumper, although her 2A has room for rotation

She does a triple axel in the LP.

. Also, she doesn't have either the statuesque aesthetics, or the big amplitude and power that some of more powerful skaters have, she is somewhere in-between. I am guessing this might be somewhat reflected in her PCS.

Yes. This is my beef with the judging system. They like the very elegant, classic looking skaters or the powerhouses. Sara-Maude is in the middle. I am reminded a bit of Joannie Rochette who had lower PCS until much later in her career... or even Gabby Daleman, though Gabby is much more powerful, she is not as refined as Sara-Maude... yet it took a while for the judges to reward Gabby (and I was fine with that for a while)... but what will it take for Sara-Maude to be rewarded ? Landing triple axels often I guess...

Also, Canadian women don't compete internationally very much. If their own federation thinks they are not good enough, so do the judges, although she is probably better than this.

That's one of the issues. Skate Canada finally is starting to realize this. All of it is becoming marketing. You got to market your athletes to the system otherwise, they ain't buying it.

I thought Yuna Aoki surely deserves 9s for composition and 8s for skating skills, yet she is below Bradie.

And that's because she is Japan # XX. Another issue here with how the system works.

 

[RafaelAstro]

I honestly think that at this point, the only way we wouldn’t complain about the scores is if AI were in charge of judging the programs. And even then, we can’t be sure it would be 100% transparent, but at least it would likely be more accurate.

 

[RafaelAstro]

Hey, I like that Bradie Tennell is still competing at 27 years old. She and Amber are the type of skaters I really enjoy from the US right now, but for some reason the system wants to push Alysa Liu and Isabeau Levito ahead. They’re great, but they get away with so many calls…

 

[4everchan]

I honestly think that at this point, the only way we wouldn’t complain about the scores is if AI were in charge of judging the programs. And even then, we can’t be sure it would be 100% transparent, but at least it would likely be more accurate.

Like line calls in tennis ? I don't think AI will save figure skating ... but it can try.

 

[museksk8r]

I am reminded a bit of Joannie Rochette who had lower PCS until much later in her career...

Oh boy, I was a huge Joannie Rochette fan and I recall getting SO ANNOYED by how she was scored in PCS. Following her career so closely is how I learned how PCS judging under COP actually works. It’s essentially a consistency and momentum score. Rochette had a habit of skating well in the GP season only to fizzle out by the time of the World Championships. She had won the bronze medal at the 2004/2005 season GPF and skated phenomenally at Canadian Nationals (imagine if she had skated that great at Worlds!) only to have a really unfortunate FS at the 2005 Worlds and finish 11th overall. Rochette was on track to being able to earn a World medal in 2006 skating in Canada after skating a fabulous FS at the 2006 Olympics and finishing 5th and winning the qualifying round at 2006 Worlds, even beating Sasha Cohen in that portion. Sadly, she singled her 2Axel in the SP and had some unfortunate falls in her FS that took her out of the running. Joannie would go on to say that she never believed she could become a world medalist prior to the 2009 season. Like Evan Lysacek’s early career, Joannie Rochette had a habit of not skating to her potential in the SP only to come roaring back in the FS and I learned that the judges would punish her inconsistency through her PCS scoring. It wasn’t until later in her career when she added more transitions in her programs, gained consistency, especially in the 2008-2009 season, and placed ahead of Mao Asada on a few occasions (2008 Trophee Eric Bompard, 2009 4CC, and 2009 Worlds) that the judges finally started giving her her dues in PCS.

 

[Isk]

I honestly think that at this point, the only way we wouldn’t complain about the scores is if AI were in charge of judging the programs. And even then, we can’t be sure it would be 100% transparent, but at least it would likely be more accurate.

I asked Google IA if it can save figure skating and it says it can't save it, it's job is to help humans do it.

 

[DizzyFrenchie]

Yes, they were much harsher on some skaters than others. I understand if things look rotated in realtime but Mone's axel and lutz looked slightly under in realtime and were not called. Other skaters did not get that benefit of doubt.

I checked Mone Chiba's jumps. Her 3Lz was missing about 75° but that's NOT and underrotation, not even a q. I suppose it's a case for a -1 in GOE for incomplete rotation. I think all judges did it because her GOEs were all between -1 (one judge) and +1. They did call her edge too.
Her 2A didn't look underrotated considering her approach line, but she had a slight turn before take off. If one considers the new line, it was really underrotated. Now, I don't know how the Technical Panel apprehend this practically, but I have already seen that problem, uncalled too, and I suppose that it should be addressed, both by judges if they want to call all errors, and by Mone Chiba and her team? She has an excellent 2A, so it appears to me more likely to be a choreography problem (the turn before take off depriving her of some energy) than an inherent problem, I hope that it can be solved because I like very much the new choreography of her Short Program.

 

[DizzyFrenchie]

I honestly think that at this point, the only way we wouldn’t complain about the scores is if AI were in charge of judging the programs. And even then, we can’t be sure it would be 100% transparent, but at least it would likely be more accurate.

Not AI (supposed to be self-learning) but I do think that all Jumps, Spins and Steps calls could be automated, with a range of possible GOEs depending on a judge's own parameters which they could implement previously in the application (the criteria would have to be the same for all skaters in a category of course). This way, at the moment of the skates, the Elements score would be done at maybe 99% by the application, with very little left to think about by the judge. I don't even know if a technical panel would be required, unless there's some technical problem at the moment? I believe that it could be done in a rather brief delay, that we would only need to adapt existing technologies and software.
As to the Components, I think that at the moment, there could be serious assistance by automated measures made available to the judges, but that only on the long term and after long exchanges, enough could be measured to give, with each judge's own parameters and criteria weighting, between 60 and 90% of the scores.

 

[RafaelAstro]

I checked Mone Chiba's jumps. Her 3Lz was missing about 75° but that's NOT and underrotation, not even a q. I suppose it's a case for a -1 in GOE for incomplete rotation. I think all judges did it because her GOEs were all between -1 (one judge) and +1. They did call her edge too.
Her 2A didn't look underrotated considering her approach line, but she had a slight turn before take off. If one considers the new line, it was really underrotated. Now, I don't know how the Technical Panel apprehend this practically, but I have already seen that problem, uncalled too, and I suppose that it should be addressed, both by judges if they want to call all errors, and by Mone Chiba and her team? She has an excellent 2A, so it appears to me more likely to be a choreography problem (the turn before take off depriving her of some energy) than an inherent problem, I hope that it can be solved because I like very much the new choreography of her Short Program.

It's the same choreo...