Replay Lounge 2025 Skate Canada

[discodisco]

Levito probably should have the lead.

They miss the UR on Levito's 3T, the 3Lo should be a q, but with Chiba they missed the UR on 2A, very very clear UR on the 3Lz. This is just a joke the officiating becomes less and less professional with every event.

Guttman's lutz was nearly a downgrade but they give it a measly q. How does the technical panel miss this? They should be fired for missing something so blatantly clear on replay.

Tennell I couldn't believe just got the one UR and one q despite wrong/not clear edge 3Lz, UR on 3Lz (not called) with a hand down, UR on 3T, 2A very clear UR (not called), 3Lo a q (not called). 65 . Chris the commentator ignores all of it. The 2A is slow motion replay has a huge underrotation and he exclaims "nothing wrong with that". Meanwhile skaters like Senuik he jumps in highlighting every small error. Other skaters we see a huge error in slow mo and he's trying to gaslight the audience? Odd!

Nakai if her 3A is back should take this out, but she didn't look good. Levito probably just has to stay on her feet to win though.

Let's hope the officials (and Chris the commentator) get it together in the free skate.

100%. Chiba's 2Axel was CLEARLY short. Levito's and Tennel's toe the same. Were any of Bradie's jumps rotated? Major pre-rotation/toe - axle on the second part of her combination as well to take away from the total rotations completed.

Overall, SOOOOO many Q's, UR's and downgrades that should have been called... and why even have Edge deduction regulations if you're never going to call them?

 

[discodisco]

This was the first time I saw Isabeau this season and it looked like her jumps had better hight and posture than last season? She really has great skating skills and can create some beautiful pictures but but why does she always have these grandma programs? She isn't even 20 yet, I think, why skate to something like that? Dubidubiduuuuu
Whereas Mone really sold her program, I loved it.

I don't really watch pairs a lot but it looked like the main difference between the first two pairs that Minerva and Nikita skated and rotated way, way faster than the Canadians? I really like it when the rotational lift (do you call it that in Pairs?) rotates so fast it feels like tshe could amost fly away. The Canadian's salto was impressive of course and it will be a sensation at the Olympics.

I actually don't think Levito's skating skills are that impressive at all when it comes to blades and edges on ice. What really shines with her is her choreography, which is very well tailored, and her posture, which is freaking amazing. I'm glad that Osmond noted it in the CBC broadcast because she has such perfect shoulders and back. Both her dress design and overall packaging really highlighted which is great.

For me the saddest part is how she breaks when going into her toe jumps (Flip - gross...). It's kind of like Jeffrey Buttle back in the day, before he fixed his triple axle entry - it was this cringe-worthy part of his program that you had to close your eyes for, when the rest of it was amazing. Either way, I think she has one of my favorite short programs of the season and any discipline, and if she can just amp up the speed a little more to match the choreography and presentation, for sure this an Olympic Worthy program.

 

[TontoK]

The Ladies’ Technical Panel did a mess. That said, from protocols, GOEs and PCS, it seems Isabeau’s competition to lose. I guess USFSA really wanted to make clear who they are backing for those 3 Olympics spots and they want Isa to be in the GPF (and she just might be there only with a win here).
Nikita and Minerva have an elegance and a command on the ice that is really pleasing to watch. While not as exciting as M/K, they are really solid. I am surprised their score here was lower than what M/B got last week. It is looking more and more like a 3-way batte for the gold in Milano. We’ll see in the next competitions if SD/D and S/H will be part of the conversation.

I agree with your first sentence, not necessarily the remainder of your post.

I much prefer a strict tech panel. I can live with a loose tech panel. But I detest an inconsistent one, and this ladies event was very inconsistent in the calls that were made/not made.

It seemed that early in the skate order, the panel was strict, and later in the order the panel was loose. That's not fair. Every skater is entitled to a level playing field.

I didn't get to watch the pairs, so I don't know if there was a similar story in that short.

 

[discodisco]

I had some fun and enjoyment during the pairs SP, and also some sadness. I loved the Swiss pair. Still a lot to do but if they are examples of the future of pair skating, it's gonna thrive. Kelly Ann and Loucas had a good outing considering their rather broken up preparation time (that injury, brr), while I will always remain in love with Ioulia's smile. She has had it forever but with Michal it comes even more to the fore. I was so sad for Anastasia who was really upset after their skate. Not the fall, but the twist. I had the feeling coaches and Luke were all very supportive. Lia and Trennt were superb. I've never seen them skate so well. And that after the mishap with the music. Didn't get the deduction though. For what? I was happy to see both Danny and Ellie going strong after the three months of healing (Danny) and singles skating (Ellie). Sure, their throw pitfall is still there (and I certainly hope she has strong ankles), but the rest seemed beautiful. I always love Deanna and Maxime whether they have level 4's or not, but I didn't understand the level 1 on their ds. The music helps too (I do love a bit of the Carmina Burana). And Minerva Fabiënne and Nikita? That programme is already a joy to watch, and will get beter and better during the season. The fierce expressions of both of them are just priceless!

Watch Max in the death spiral. His hips were way too high, and in fact he was half standing for most of it. That's why it was reduced. It also prevented Deanna from getting as deep and low to the ice as she needed in order to check off her levels.

Max has actually been a bit off in general this year. I know he's really trying with his presentation, but it looks a bit forced and unnatural. His jumps have been really sketchy, and whereas last year Deanna looked to be unfortunately gradually losing her triple jumps, she's got them both back this year, including the salchow. Hopefully he can get his jumps back.

I don't remember them being so inconsistent with their triple toe takeoffs in the past either.... it's like they have different patterns and completely different take off times now and it's like they're not even trying to match them LOL

 

[rain]

I think it's clear, with how the USA deals with selections, "body of work" that the USA will want her at the games. Alyssa will go for sure, no matter how she skates at US Nationals. Amber is also a skater they will send for sure : GPF winner and huge base value with her 3a, so if clean, a medal hope. Isabeau won silver in 2024 worlds. It would be very hard, in my opinion, for anyone else from the USA to grab an olympic spot.

I thought it was already very clear after last season who the U.S. women's team was going to be, and it was going to be an uphill battle for any of the other skaters to make a case for themselves. They needed someone in the presumptive top 3 to really underperform in the early season and to pull out several medals themselves to do it. Neither of those things has happened, so barring injury or one of them absolutely tanking everything until nationals, I think the team is all but set.

 

[discodisco]

I take a simpler view. I am not so much into conspiracy theories involving federation politics and biased judging. To me, the protocols tell the story in easy to understand numbers.

If Ami Nakai had naliled her triple Axel, she would be alone in first place. She didm't, so she's not.

I think that the same will be true in the free skate. Ami with a solid triple Axel and a cleanish skate will win that segment, otherwise it's up for grabs regardless of who the USFSA wants to send to the Olympics.

Agree. Osmond made the comment that the difference in skating skills between the Japanese women and the rest are particularly clear when you see them skating live and back to back. Ironically, one of the skaters that was noticeable with was Sarah- Maude. I agree that she's made a lot of progress, and I think that the short program was a great fit for her (albeit a bit one note without a lot of variety). Still, all her patterns are very small, and although she got her triple triple, it didn't cover much ice or get a lot of height. Same with the Lutz. Still, I think this is her best and most polished program ever, and it's great to see her skate something like this to contrast with her free skate switch tend to be a little more dark. So, very good for her overall.

 

[Anna K.]

Chiba's 2Axel was CLEARLY short.

What makes it "short", dear Sir/Madam?
What I saw was a classic running-edge exit slightly slowed down by the edge change. All rulebooks that I have read list it as fully-rotated, plus 1 GOE.

May you explain to me what am I missing? I value every opportunity to learn more about the scoring details and precious techniques of figure skating.
Thank you in advance.

 

[noskates]

I think it's amazing that people can second-guess the judges when they're sitting at home in front of their TVs and able to replay and slo-mo. Happens every competition. And I acknowledge that the judges have that capability as well but as long as humans are judging figure skating there will always be second-guessing. It just is what it is.

I love Isabeau's short program. I think it's one of the most entertaining of the season and it's perfect for her. I hope she does well in the free skate. Was surprised that Sarah Everhardt ended up as far down as she did. I think she was surprised as well.

 

[TontoK]

I think it's amazing that people can second-guess the judges when they're sitting at home in front of their TVs and able to replay and slo-mo. Happens every competition. And I acknowledge that the judges have that capability as well but as long as humans are judging figure skating there will always be second-guessing. It just is what it is.

I love Isabeau's short program. I think it's one of the most entertaining of the season and it's perfect for her. I hope she does well in the free skate. Was surprised that Sarah Everhardt ended up as far down as she did. I think she was surprised as well.

This was the skater I had most in mind when I wrote earlier about an inconsistent panel. I saw no problem at all with her lutz-toe combo, but the lutz was called under. I just didn't see it. I haven't gone back to review the rotations in detail, because my interest level just isn't that high, but it looked better than jumps from skaters that were called clean. And yes, she seemed very surprised at the score. I think she believed she had skated a great program (so do I).

Edit: I don't mean that Sarah pulled a face or mugged at the camera to relay her displeasure, just that she struggled to maintain the frozen smile.

 

[Anna K.]

In case anyone feels interested: Sarah lost like three points because of that combo but she also got two of her three spins downgraded to level 3 and her StSq - to level 2.
Hence the point difference from her personal best in LOMTRO where she had all level 4 except one spin:

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And, for comparison, here is her SP in GPCAN:

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[TontoK]

In case anyone feels interested: Sarah lost like three points because of that combo but she also got two of her three spins downgraded to level 3 and her StSq - to level 2.
Hence the point difference from her personal best in LOMTRO where she had all level 4 except one spin:

Yes, those spins and the footwork would make a big difference, too, and thank you for reminding me that jumps aren't all that get a score. I still don't see the UR on the lutz. The Canadian feed felt confident it was the right call even though Chris on the ISU feed did not. I don't know if Ted was simply parroting the live protocol, or if he actually saw it as such.

In either case, there is still the issue of inconsistency in the calls. That lutz seemed fine, but several other jumps from others were obviously UR in real time, at least to me, but allowed to score as clean.

 

[4everchan]

Yes, those spins and the footwork would make a big difference, too, and thank you for reminding me that jumps aren't all that get a score. I still don't see the UR on the lutz.

I do...

The Canadian feed felt confident it was the right call even though Chris on the ISU feed did not. I don't know if Ted was simply parroting the live protocol, or if he actually saw it as such.

I would trust Kaetlyn Osmond over Chris tbh

In either case, there is still the issue of inconsistency in the calls. That lutz seemed fine, but several other jumps from others were obviously UR in real time, at least to me, but allowed to score as clean.

 

[discodisco]

This was the skater I had most in mind when I wrote earlier about an inconsistent panel. I saw no problem at all with her lutz-toe combo, but the lutz was called under. I just didn't see it. I haven't gone back to review the rotations in detail, because my interest level just isn't that high, but it looked better than jumps from skaters that were called clean. And yes, she seemed very surprised at the score. I think she believed she had skated a great program (so do I).

Edit: I don't mean that Sarah pulled a face or mugged at the camera to relay her displeasure, just that she struggled to maintain the frozen smile.

I don't think it was fully rotated, but I reviewed it a number of times and didn't think it was enough to be either underrated or downgraded to be honest. Not the most beautiful combo, but certainly not the worst either

 

[paulusfr]

Very good SP skate from Minerva and Nikita, I liked it. I think they've changed some of the choreography again.
They do their best, it's got a lot of hand-in-hand positions and catch-and-release transitions. They could work on expression and passion to improve PCS. The impact should get better as they get more comfortable with the program and polish it. Their lift was underscored. The GOE Pereira/Michaud received for the lift was a bit crazy, especially in comparison with H/V.

 

[discodisco]

What makes it "short", dear Sir/Madam?
What I saw was a classic running-edge exit slightly slowed down by the edge change. All rulebooks that I have read list it as fully-rotated, plus 1 GOE.

May you explain to me what am I missing? I value every opportunity to learn more about the scoring details and precious techniques of figure skating.
Thank you in advance.

Thanks for the question it looked under rotated live, and the angle of the replay that I saw had it very clearly at least a quarter rotation short. Watch the front part of her blade and where it hits the ice. She's on quite an inside lean, and she tends to jump the axel around, versus up. I'll try to post a picture of the demonstrates when her skates hit the ice, which is definitely on the line of a quarter short rotation, possibly more. The second image is after she has landed and completed the quarter rotation on the ice, and the third is as she's unlocking the free leg and pushing into her beautiful extended running Edge.

Chiba 2A UR

I did not take liberties with the freeze frame. You can see by the position of her head on the first picture that she still looking around to finish that last quarter rotation, even though she's already hit the ice, versus the second and third pictures. I have seen jumps that were on the border of the quarter like this that were called under rotations, so I think giving her a Q was not an overly harsh call. I think everyone was beguiled by her extended running Edge on the landing, but I was actually somewhat expecting and under rotation because she missed her double axle a couple times last year specifically due to issues with rotation.

 

[Anna K.]

I'll try to post a picture

Please, don't post any pictures!
I'm sorry but still images only make everything more confusing.

I would appreciate if you could timestamp her competition video though.

 

[Anna K.]

I do...

Me, too

It was only visible in the replay though. During the live stream, we saw that combo from the side and it looked all clean.
In replay, it was shown from behind and it was visible that the toe of her skate points to 3 o'clock when landing the first jump

 

[discodisco]

Please, don't post any pictures!
I'm sorry but still images only make everything more confusing.

I would appreciate if you could timestamp her competition video though.

Oops... I posted a picture sorry! I actually don't know how to timestamp videos believe it or not! Maybe I'll see if I can figure that out, but I just went on to YouTube and they show a clear replay of the double axle toward the end of the video.

 

[DizzyFrenchie]

Levito probably should have the lead.

They miss the UR on Levito's 3T, the 3Lo should be a q, but with Chiba they missed the UR on 2A, very very clear UR on the 3Lz. This is just a joke the officiating becomes less and less professional with every event.

Guttman's lutz was nearly a downgrade but they give it a measly q. How does the technical panel miss this? They should be fired for missing something so blatantly clear on replay.

Tennell I couldn't believe just got the one UR and one q despite wrong/not clear edge 3Lz, UR on 3Lz (not called) with a hand down, UR on 3T, 2A very clear UR (not called), 3Lo a q (not called). 65 . Chris the commentator ignores all of it. The 2A is slow motion replay has a huge underrotation and he exclaims "nothing wrong with that". Meanwhile skaters like Senuik he jumps in highlighting every small error. Other skaters we see a huge error in slow mo and he's trying to gaslight the audience? Odd!

Nakai if her 3A is back should take this out, but she didn't look good. Levito probably just has to stay on her feet to win though.

Let's hope the officials (and Chris the commentator) get it together in the free skate.

I checked the Slow Motion after her skate with speed set at 0.25, and Mone Chiba's Triple Lutz was missing about 75°, which isn't even a q (90°). There was no other call to be made by the Technical Panel than the Unclear Edge which they did. With how her score was low on this jump, I believe that the judges did see the lack of a full rotation and gave her the one point penalty on the GOE for uncomplete rotation.
For her Double Axel, I also believe that it was underrotated but given her turn before the take off (which is also the probable cause of the underrotation, out of energy deperdition), I believe that it was hard to spot. I hope that both her and the panel can address the problems: her and her team the problem of underrotating a Double Axel which he has normally very good and consistent, and the panel how to determine precisely the line of jump.
Overall the panel seems to have been as fair on her as on other competitors. I call severe, fair, because that's what it is. "Lenient" scoring is unfair because those who make more errors get an undue advantage.

 

[Anna K.]

I checked the Slow Motion after her skate with speed set at 0.25, and Mone Chiba's Triple Lutz was missing about 75°, which isn't even a q (90°). There was no other call to be made by the Technical Panel than the Unclear Edge which they did. With how her score was low on this jump, I believe that the judges did see the lack of a full rotation and gave her the one point penalty on the GOE for uncomplete rotation.
For her Double Axel, I also believe that it was underrotated but given her turn before the take off (which is also the probable cause of the underrotation, out of energy deperdition), I believe that it was hard to spot. I hope that both her and the panel can address the problems: her and her team the problem of underrotating a Double Axel which he has normally very good and consistent, and the panel how to determine precisely the line of jump.
Overall the panel seems to have been as fair on her as on other competitors. I call severe, fair, because that's what it is. "Lenient" scoring is unfair because those who make more errors get an undue advantage.

Wait a sec! I'm a bit confused now. What is it that you are talking about - an underrotation or a prerotation?

I believe that these are two different things scoring wise. "Under", which is determined based solely (unless the rules have changed... Have they? ) on the jump exit is punished by reduced point value. "Pre", which is screwed (literally) jump entry, is just as legit as any other entry under IJS and is merely a disputable jumping technique that is not punished anyhow (except by an edge call when it causes a flutz).
Or, have the rules changed already? How can I not know Bring me the link!