Replay Lounge 2025 Skate Canada

[Mathman]

Why?

Just asking. The purpose is always important.

To me, the main problem is that the skater is constantly turning from beginning to end.

She is turning when the notion first occurs to her that she should try a jump. She is turning as she approaches take-off, during take-off, while in the air, when she touches down, when her landing blade starts to bear weight, as she exits and starts thinking about the next element.

Assuming we have technology that can measure all this turning with great accuracy, from where to where should we count rotations?

Another factor is this, IMHO. How's this for a definition? Figure skating = what figure skaters do. Or at least what the best figure skaters do (who?)

I am the best figure skater. This is how I do a triple toeloop. There... as you can plainly see, it has 2 and a quarter revolutions in the air, just as my famous coach taught me. By definition, this is what we mean by a fully rotated triple toe-loop.

 

[sworddance21]

I'm just starting to catch up. Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I really enjoyed Bradie's free program. She's so quiet and mature. I was skeptical of The Mission music because I find Matt Savoie's skate to that to be iconic, but I loved it. She may not be a front runner for the Olympic team right now, but I'm looking forward to seeing how she continues to grow over this season.

 

[Lamente Ariane]

I have seen a lot of people ragging on Lajoie/Lagha's RD so maybe it's because I went in with low expectations but I actually think it's kinda great? Like yes, it's very obnoxious and OTT but in a fun way that makes them stand out. I think they're giving what the judges want from this theme, which is aggressive full-out energy that hypes up the crowd. The mistakes at the end were unfortunate but they had a later start to the season than they wanted and they've always been a team who peaks later in the season, I think it's going to be dynamite at Nationals.

OTOH I was extremely underwhelmed by Gilles/Poirier's RD. IMO they need to take Too Sexy out and replace it with a song that isn't being used better by multiple other teams, one at this very event... and it doesn't go with Supermodel. Why not use two RuPaul songs? Skated tentatively throughout, imo... hours later, I can't remember a single choreographic moment.

 

[Anna K.]

To me, the main problem is that the skater is constantly turning from beginning to end.

Why is it your main problem instead of a skater landing an aesthetically pleasing jump?

Just curious.
All these data regarding the actual rotation degrees have nothing to do with an aesthetically pleasing jump that is well incorporated in the program. A smooth landing does. Hence it has been the only criterion thus far.
I can't wait to see what changes the changes might make.

I think that the mark on the ice has to be completed by the direction of the jump, and also looked at closely because the arrival of the jump may not mark strongly from the very landing, and the first light mark may mix with previous marks.
I think that sensors on a blade would be fine because we would have the line of the jump, the instant of the touch on the ice at a really puny fraction of second, there would be no doubt. It's not AI, it's just automatised measurement. The style of the skater, the angle of the landing from the Technical Panel, the position of the foot, wouldn't hamper anymore with the assessment.

Imho the key word is "measurement" instead of landing quality that has been the criterion thus far.

In figure skating, no straight line skating exists. The skater's trajectory is a curve, the deeper the better. Hence in theory, the supposed 360 degree turn can't be 360 degrees or the "no straight line" rule will be violated. So I am curious, in example, how the measurement criteria will be set. Will there be a certain range of percentage defined? Or, will they set a specific "straight line for jumps" rule? How will this affect the programs and jumping techniques?

By the way, feel free to cross-post me to a thread that is more suitable for such discussion because here this is a bit... (should it be moved altogether? )

 

[Skating91]

Chiba was clearly the best, and shouldn't have had to fight so hard for victory. She had virtually identical PCS to Levito as well which was kind of odd because Chiba had so much speed in comparison, so could have been a lot higher. It was really apparent with Chiba skating straight after.

Well, for the ladies I don't think we can complain too much about over-lenient tech panels on this one.

Levito got 3 <s and a !
Tennell got 2 <s and a q
Gutmann got a << and 2 qs
Aoki got 5 qs and a !

With Levito though they miss the q on the 3Lo and UR on the 3S (she tries to hide it by doing almost a full rotation before leaving the ice) and both jumps have poor technique. Still the judges give both these jumps mostly 3's!!

On the 3F-2A miss the q on the 3F and very very clear UR on the 2A. 2Lo also needed a q as well.

Thankfully it didn't affect the result of the gold medal.

 

[Isk]

Which doesn't change anything point wise either
Unless you show me an ISU rule that states otherwise, of course.


That's why only the "hard evidence" - mark on the ice after landing is what counts when URs are determined.

Anyway, I can't wait for the ISU to implement the AI measurements. I'm curious about the data that will become available and about how it will change the jumping techniques and figure skating in general.

AI doesn't measure anything, it processes data and gives an answer approximation based on what it has been trained. It will have to be trained on human data, which at this point comes from 1 camera. This is why I think the only good use of it can be as a tool to alert TPs to certain tech elements that might need to be reviewed, but the decision will be TP's. Its use in judging PCS at this point seems impossible, because human PCS judging does not follow the rules. Training AI on this data is useless, it'll do the same.
My grave doubt is: if ISU is already so poor that they can't afford a second camera for TP or payment for the judges, who is going to pay for technology? It took quite a while to produce decent translators and search engines, whole companies worked on it, whose employees are very well-paid. So far nobody invests in music making AI and it sucks.

Just got back from women's free, and we found it interminably boring.

We, stream-watching people, did too.

To me, the main problem is that the skater is constantly turning from beginning to end.

She is turning when the notion first occurs to her that she should try a jump. She is turning as she approaches take-off, during take-off, while in the air, when she touches down, when her landing blade starts to bear weight, as she exits and starts thinking about the next element.

Assuming we have technology that can measure all this turning with great accuracy, from where to where should we count rotations?

Another factor is this, IMHO. How's this for a definition? Figure skating = what figure skaters do. Or at least what the best figure skaters do (who?)

I am the best figure skater. This is how I do a triple toeloop. There... as you can plainly see, it has 2 and a quarter revolutions in the air, just as my famous coach taught me. By definition, this is what we mean by a fully rotated triple toe-loop.

I think one should measure those angles w.r.t. the straight line along which the skater moves forward during the flight phase of the jump, so one would need the line segment connecting the take off and landing spots, on which both take-off and landing traces are overlaid.
My coach taught me that loop takes off from an arc and is landed into an arc, and because there is forward motion during the flight phase of the jump, the arc tangents at the take-off and landing spots shouldn't be collinear to the forward motion. So +-q/2 on take-off and +- q/2 on the landing is normal. It helps you to translate the gliding motion into forward + rotation, and then vs versa to retain speed and flow after the landing. It's different on the flip: the arc you glide along before take-off is almost straight. Of course I never did triples, these things are taught on single jumps. Intuition suggests that you might need a sharper take-off arc with more rotations, but the force of take-off push, the height/length of the jump, rotation speed (tightness of air position) and checking play a big role.

 

[Blades of Passion]

With Levito though they miss the q on the 3Lo and UR on the 3S

On the 3F-2A miss the q on the 3F and very very clear UR on the 2A

Those jumps were fine.

Her 3Lz should have been an 'e' call instead of < though

 

[ladyjane]

I wish people in the women's part wouldn't go into endless debates about ur's, prerotations, etc. It makes me want to watch this discipline even less. I don't mind a bit of discussion, but to me it's just awful how detailed everything gets. Are you even watching the discipline for enjoyment, or just to prove how knowledgeable you are and your favourite got called and her competitior didn't? Why does this happen the most with the women's? It happens with the men too but to a much lesser extent, and doesn't put me off. Sorry. Rant over.

Time for the pairs FS, which was enjoyable as always. I was so happy for Anastasia and Luke to have a redemptive skate after that horrible SP yesterday. They showed us they really can do it! A well executed triple twist, good jumps, nice lifts. Yay! This is menning in a good way. Sadly the same cannot be said about Ioulia and Michal who had a terrible outing. It did please me to see Michal thinking: ok this wasn't our day, and being supportive. Oxana and Tom's programme was rather bland to me. I recall Brian Joubert doing a FS to this music in a comparable outfit that was much more diverse (and that is saying something about that jumper) even if that was in another discipline and another era. No matter, it wasn't so good this time, but this team will continue to grow even if she looks like a little throwable doll. She doesn't act like one. I see good things for them in the coming years. Hurrah for Kelly Ann and Loucas. They look so mature now. I really enjoyed watching them. This is a pair that also will continue to grow, they are getting better. You can see it allready. Ellie and Danny are so wonderful together when the throws work. One was not perfect but landed, the other was just solid with that free leg in the air. A standing ovation well earned. Well done you too. It's as if Lia and Trennt always have one good and one not so good programme. This time their SP was exquisite, but their FS lacking. Some uncharacteristic mistakes, but it brought them out of medal contention. Deanna and Maxime were superb. Sure, they have to make their double SBS into triples, but they looked so good. Lovely programme, a shame about their last lift where Max bent his arm, but on the whole so well executed. Very well done. Minerva Fabienne and Nikita did not have their day. As Kirstin said (yeah I was watching on the Canadian daily motion stream with Ted and Kirstin), usually they have to make up after their SP, now their SP was almost perfect but some very costly mishaps (falls from both, and not simultaneously) in the FS. Still, third in the segment and second overall.

 

[throw_triple_flip]

Incredible comeback for the British Pair- I don't think it'll take too long for them to become a grand prix podium threat. Kam and O'Shea while not flawless were brilliant- i cheered when she landed that throw Loop. Very deserved win for Stellato and Deschamps but Pereira and Michaud continue with the worrying trend of error prone free skates.

 

[lariko]

I didn't focus on rotations, because it is up to judges to decide, rather on the lack of energy and competitive spirit and willingness to engage the audience. Women's event just dragged on and on and on. It didn't feel like competition, it was impossible to latch on anyone and cheer for them or want to know their placements. They didn't make you care, and all appeared sort of just wanting to get it over with and hated every minute of it by mid-skate. I mean, expect maybe Shiryaeva who looked positively giddy to be there. Nothing like Kelowna, Missasuaga or the Texas events I went to previosly. Particularly Kelowna.

But today is another day and maybe things will be okay.

 

[ladyjane]

Well, the men's SP was very high level. Even the guys who came in the lower placements were very good. Stephen Gogolev is on! He's a different skater than before, such fun to watch. I am so pleased for him, and that he's healthy is just great. Sure, Aleksa still has a lot to learn, but I still liked his skate performance wise. Roman had a wonderful 4salchow, and then has a miss in his combination. Still counted as a combination, and he is nice to watch in between the elements. Vladimir had a good skate, also fun to watch, even if his placement makes it seem he didn't. Tomoki did really well. His scores rightly were higher than in his first GP, but the level in general was higher here. Very much a joy to watch. Alexandr was just wonderful to watch, especially that expression in the steps and choreo (and his jumps weren't to be sneered at either). And, of course, I love this music. Kazuki had a glorious skate. Maybe not perfect, but he is always so musical. Nikolaj did quite well too. I always wonder how such a tall guy manages to do the jumps, and Tosca is just his thing. Kao had a very powerful programme that did justice to his strengths. Not perfect yet, but his form seems to be returning. I always love Kevin. He might not have the technical ability of some, but he is always so original and innovative in his programmes. What shall I say about Nika? When he's not perfect in his jumps (although all were landed), there's not much else, even if his spins definitely have improved. And Ilia? Well, a very wel deserved winner. He makes everything look so easy, even making set ups for jumps and the jumps themselves part of the choreography.

Now, let's hope the FS will also be at a high level!

 

[Skating91]

Those jumps were fine.

Her 3Lz should have been an 'e' call instead of < though

I'll just start with the 3Lo. It's kind of time consuming to do them all.

Even if you for some reason refuse to believe that is a q (I'd actually go with an underrotation looking at it again but a q would be acceptable I suppose), does it deserve four 3's from the judges?

 

[Zora]

I didn't enjoy the ladies, very uninspired programs. Even skipped some programs like Bradie's, because it really wasn't my cup of tea. Lara certainly tried, the idea was good. Isabeau has great attention to detail and positions, but sadly a boring free program.

I enjoyed Selevko's short program.

 

[gsk8]

Here are recaps and quotes from top four Pairs

Stellato-Dudek and Deschamps win third consecutive Skate Canada title

2025 Skate Canada: Pairs Deanna Stellato-Dudek and Maxime Deschamps of Canada rose from second place to take their third consecutive Skate Canada title on

www.goldenskate.com

 

[sisinka]

Please, don't post any pictures!
I'm sorry but still images only make everything more confusing.

I would appreciate if you could timestamp her competition video though.

Mone Chiba - Short Program - 3flip + 3toeloop, 3lutz, 2axel (click through all three videos).

 

[sisinka]

I agree, videos are definitely better than pictures.

Isabeau Levito - Short Program - three videos - 3flip + 3toeloop, 3loop, 2axel.

 

[TontoK]

I didn't enjoy the ladies, very uninspired programs. Even skipped some programs like Bradie's, because it really wasn't my cup of tea. Lara certainly tried, the idea was good. Isabeau has great attention to detail and positions, but sadly a boring free program.

I enjoyed Selevko's short program.

I won't comment on a specific discipline or athlete, but this competition has reinforced my opinions about the lack of high-quality programs this season in general. They're all fine. Just fine. But that's not enough. I want more. I remain hopeful that as the season progresses and these programs evolve, I'll enjoy them more.

The biggest surprise for me this competition so far is Ellie and Danny. This is a pair that I had almost written off. I mean I was an inch away from dismissing them as not worth the time it took to watch. When they're not falling and stumbling all over the place, they actually have a nice connection. I liked their LP enough to care about them again. Perhaps this nice outing will instill more confidence and consistency. I'm giving them another shot, and I rarely do that.

 

[gsk8]

Women's Recaps and Quotes:

Mone Chiba dominates women for first Grand Prix gold at Skate Canada

2025 Skate Canada: Women Mone Chiba of Japan dominated the Women's figure skating event in Saskatoon, taking her first Grand Prix gold medal on Saturday.

www.goldenskate.com

 

[sisinka]

Lara Naki Gutmann - Short Program - three videos - 3toeloop + 3toeloop, 2axel, 3lutz.

 

[4everchan]

I won't comment on a specific discipline or athlete, but this competition has reinforced my opinions about the lack of high-quality programs this season in general. They're all fine. Just fine. But that's not enough. I want more. I remain hopeful that as the season progresses and these programs evolve, I'll enjoy them more.

Why would skaters try to do so much better than fine, when fine still gets them the PCS needed ? The focus has to remain on jumping because when that doesn't work out, the points are truly lost. It's a sport after all and we cannot have l'argent et l'argent du beurre (which means that you cannot have the butter and the money needed to buy the butter)... So, skaters make the obvious choice and focus on jumps. Even spins and steps are for some almost an afterthought.

So, as long as the big jumpers will get big PCS for empty programs, the whole sport will remain "fine but not special" because truly, one cannot invest on interior design if the foundation of the house is not solid.

So that's how I would interpret the sport now.

That's not my wish for it. I wish that the sport would recognize diverse approaches but it doesn't anymore. And that's why my friend, some of us are complaining when some skaters get crazy PCS for OK programs... just because they can jump.

And yes, even if those skaters would still win with lower PCS and that it doesn't change the rankings, the message sent is clear. So it does matter.

YMMV

PS. And, because it's an Olympic year, I expect skaters focused on where the points are earned... and not on being special.. so that would explain why it's even worse this year.