2025 U S.Nationals Senior Women's Short Program

[Seven Sisters]

Amber brought up in the press conference how fatigued she was from the scheduling leading up to this event due to competing in the 3rd and 6th GP events, the Grand Prix Final, all the shows and media attention resulting from her success, and being sick prior to Nationals. She hasn’t had time to come down from the high of the fall season to take a break. She looks forward to skating the FS and will work hard to take so much pressure off of herself.

I thought about this last night, and decided that while there are undoubtedly those within USFS who accept Amber for the skater and person she is, and see the marketing opportunities in her, there are probably also those who prefer the more conventional package that is Isabeau, and who would very much like to have her successfully petition to the Worlds team.

Those in the latter camp might think it hurts Isabeau’s chances to have Amber run away with this. Hence, higher scores than might be expected, for Bradie and Alysa.

 

[Dawn825]

Amber brought up in the press conference how fatigued she was from the scheduling leading up to this event due to competing in the 3rd and 6th GP events, the Grand Prix Final, all the shows and media attention resulting from her success, and being sick prior to Nationals. She hasn’t had time to come down from the high of the fall season to take a break.

I understand sickness affecting her performance. But the GP that ended 6 weeks ago? Not sure about that...

i feel awful for Lindsay...i'm not a fan of her skating but wow that was harsh. it seems they're totally writing her off. i thought it would be around 65.

She gets no grace from any judges anywhere. She needs perfectly clean jumps to ever be scored well at this point. I think someone said she has a new coach? So we may have to wait till next season to see if they're able to help her achieve that.

 

[readernick]

This competition really did cement my love for Sherry Zhang which I have had since last year. Her skating is amazing live. Her jumps are powerful, her speed and SS really set her apart, and she is a great spinner. Last year, she consistently messed up the 3-3 in her SP. It was wise for her to go for a 3-2. This program is also a great choice for her. If she can keep this up in the LP I imagine she will be first choice for junior worlds.

 

[4everchan]

My concerns about a slack tech panel have played out just as I feared they would.

I was enthralled by Alysa's skating and the emotional maturity, but let's be honest. The back half of that combo was under. On the other hand, everything else was immaculate. The spins were beautiful in position and solidly centered. Not a millimeter of travel.

Amber's axel was under, not q, and the loop was at least a q. Her skating this season has been lovely overall, but this program was overscored tonight. Everything looked frantic.

The cleanest skater was Sarah. Every element was neat as a pin. That would be a clean scoresheet internationally. If I were in the smokey back room with the selection panel, I'd be working like mad to get her named to the World team, because she's going to deliver a solid performance in the best position to provide a second placement if needed to get the third Olympic spot.

Maybe next year, Canada and USA should exchange tech panel wouldn't that be funny

 

[figureskatingandrainbows]

I understand sickness affecting her performance. But the GP that ended 6 weeks ago? Not sure about that...

A lot of athletes have this sort of post-GP slump, especially when you have a ton of success on the GP circuit. Amber started her season in August, and has been training at a very high level, with a 3A and lots of other high-intensity jumps, for 5 1/2 months now. She needs to have a come-down break, otherwise she runs the risk of burning out before Worlds. Ilia has done the same the past few seasons, as he knows that he is pretty much guaranteed a Worlds spot, and so uses the space before National to break in new boots and have a bit of a come-down - that's why his Nationals skates are normally a little rough. The two of them, as well as many other athletes who follow the same strategy, aren't intentionally sabotaging their Nationals skates or anything, but rather trying to prioritize their physical health and best performances for later on in the season. It's just different peaking strategies - other athletes, like Kaori Sakamoto and Yuma Kagiyama, will do a slow build towards Worlds, so they don't have a mid-season slump, but they tend to have poorer performances in the GP series as a result. I don't think Amber and her team planned to have this space as a come-down, but it was just a side effect of her successful opening season. The emotional and physical toll that skating well on the GP series and then winning a huge event like the Final would have had on Amber can't be overstated - that's a lot of adrenaline, travelling, emotional baggage, and competition in just a few weeks, and that's not even mentioning the sickness.

 

[Joekaz]

This competition really did cement my love for Sherry Zhang which I have had since last year. Her skating is amazing live. Her jumps are powerful, her speed and SS really set her apart, and she is a great spinner. Last year, she consistently messed up the 3-3 in her SP. It was wise for her to go for a 3-2. This program is also a great choice for her. If she can keep this up in the LP I imagine she will be first choice for junior worlds.

She was the most talented skater of the event when it comes to pure skating . Very confident and no weakness shown. Remarkably polished for her age.

 

[Skating91]

i think Amber's going to have an Ashley Wagner moment and knock it out of the park tonight. she's gotta be mad at herself and she's in a great spot to skate without the pressure of winning the short. i believe in her.

She double footed on the 3A and it seemed a forward landing that should have been downgraded, underrotated the loop. That's in a program with three jump elements. In a program with seven, I think she will really struggle.

But this is Amber, her form runs in streaks.

i feel awful for Lindsay...i'm not a fan of her skating but wow that was harsh. it seems they're totally writing her off. i thought it would be around 65.

They are clearly victimising her, trying to discourage her, break her spirit for some reason. Hard to watch someone being treated so badly.

I thought about this last night, and decided that while there are undoubtedly those within USFS who accept Amber for the skater and person she is, and see the marketing opportunities in her, there are probably also those who prefer the more conventional package that is Isabeau, and who would very much like to have her successfully petition to the Worlds team.

Those in the latter camp might think it hurts Isabeau’s chances to have Amber run away with this. Hence, higher scores than might be expected, for Bradie and Alysa.

No way, Amber had a double footed landing on the 3A which should have been downgraded but only got a q, didn't get dinged for the loop which was underrotated but at a minimum a q. They really looked after her.

But I do agree about Isabeau, even at international level they overlook the underrotations on jumps and awkward technique awarding huge GOE. I do enjoy watching her skate, but the officials just have to be honest. We can still enjoy Isabeau finishing 6th or 8th she doesn't have to finish in the medals.

I went over this in the World's threads last season with video evidence showing her cheating landings. Most jump elements were blatantly cheated but not called by the officials. This is not Isabeau's fault and I really enjoy her programs, but they just have to judge her honestly. At some point it diminishes and discredits the sport when it is so blatant (how they help some skaters, but go out of their way to victimise skaters like Lindsay poor woman).

 

[TontoK]

Those in the latter camp might think it hurts Isabeau’s chances to have Amber run away with this. Hence, higher scores than might be expected, for Bradie and Alysa.

I don't know about that. Undoubtedly, the top contenders benefitted from a loose tech panel, but Amber's boost came from a forklift.

While I didn't get to see all the skaters, the only internationally clean protocol would have been awarded to Sarah Everhardt.

 

[Skating91]

A lot of athletes have this sort of post-GP slump, especially when you have a ton of success on the GP circuit. Amber started her season in August, and has been training at a very high level, with a 3A and lots of other high-intensity jumps, for 5 1/2 months now. She needs to have a come-down break, otherwise she runs the risk of burning out before Worlds. Ilia has done the same the past few seasons, as he knows that he is pretty much guaranteed a Worlds spot, and so uses the space before National to break in new boots and have a bit of a come-down - that's why his Nationals skates are normally a little rough. The two of them, as well as many other athletes who follow the same strategy, aren't intentionally sabotaging their Nationals skates or anything, but rather trying to prioritize their physical health and best performances for later on in the season. It's just different peaking strategies - other athletes, like Kaori Sakamoto and Yuma Kagiyama, will do a slow build towards Worlds, so they don't have a mid-season slump, but they tend to have poorer performances in the GP series as a result. I don't think Amber and her team planned to have this space as a come-down, but it was just a side effect of her successful opening season. The emotional and physical toll that skating well on the GP series and then winning a huge event like the Final would have had on Amber can't be overstated - that's a lot of adrenaline, travelling, emotional baggage, and competition in just a few weeks, and that's not even mentioning the sickness.

While physically demanding, these are athletic performances lasting several minutes, with each program performed in competition maybe 6-7 times per year. Tennis players are competing weekly for 11 months per year, multiple matches lasting hours every week.

 

[sjchilly]

My opinion is this Alysa wion the night period. Amber left points in the table and that why she is where she is. I think Bradie was over scored and Sarah was underscored badly. Think that if Isabeau does not go to Worlds then the team should be Alysa, Amber and Sarah. If we talking about the 3rd women who just has to make the free skate then let's give to the one who is going to be our future then the one from our past

I remember thinking Sarah was robbed last year at Nationals both in score and event invitation though I can't remember why I thought that. U.S. only had 2 spots on the World Team and 4 Continents team was named before Nationals. I'm not sure Sarah was eligible/interested in World Juniors nor do I think she got an alternate position.

 

[sjchilly]

I understand sickness affecting her performance. But the GP that ended 6 weeks ago? Not sure about that...

She gets no grace from any judges anywhere. She needs perfectly clean jumps to ever be scored well at this point. I think someone said she has a new coach? So we may have to wait till next season to see if they're able to help her achieve that.

There were no spring/summer U.S. skating tour last year after Worlds. I remember Amber expressing disappointment at the time. I think she was not only competing this fall but taking show opportunities to make some money.

 

[Jammers]

If Isabeau isn't 100% by the time of Worlds they should keep her off the team since they will decide not just spots for Worlds next season but the Olympics. Last season i wouldn't have said that but the US Ladies are so much deeper this year with Alysa and Bradie's return and Sarah having a breakout year.

 

[Kris135]

I remember thinking Sarah was robbed last year at Nationals both in score and event invitation though I can't remember why I thought that. U.S. only had 2 spots on the World Team and 4 Continents team was named before Nationals. I'm not sure Sarah was eligible/interested in World Juniors nor do I think she got an alternate position.

She got the 1st alternate for Junior Worlds which I thought was nuts. I think that if Sarah had been sent last year she had a good chance of getting on the podium.

 

[noskates]

This will undoubtedly be an unpopular opinion but it's mine - I'm kind of tired of Amber and all her foibles. I respect the fact that she's working to stay healthy but she just plain got outskated yesterday. I don't buy the excuse that in 6 weeks she hasn't been able to get her strength back from the GPF. And she's not the first skater to be sick prior to a competition. She's an elite figure skater - that's her job - and at this point in the season Nationals should be her first responsibility. . She's supposedly taking care of her mind and her body so I just can't buy the excuses. I also have a hard time believing that the judges are involved in some kind of conspiracy to promote Isabeau. I think given Isabeau's record so far this year it will be interesting to see if the Worlds committee (or whomever) gives her a by to go to Worlds.

That's the best I've seen Bradie skate in a long time. She looked like she was enjoying herself and it showed in her performance. I do like Sarah Everhardt but was a little disappointed that Elise Lin Gracie didn't skate better. She's beautiful on the ice.

 

[TontoK]

She (Lindsay) gets no grace from any judges anywhere. She needs perfectly clean jumps to ever be scored well at this point. I think someone said she has a new coach? So we may have to wait till next season to see if they're able to help her achieve that.

On the one hand, I don't have a problem with Lindsay getting dinged for rotations. Those dings were accurately applied.

On the other hand, dinging her and ignoring similar (and more egregious) deficiencies from other skaters supports a narrative that the playing field is not level, and that officials are tinkering with the scores to achieve an outcome they desire.

In the future, suppose an AI program is developed to accurately mimic a tech panel without bias. I suspect the most vocal critics of this would be the federations. It would limit their ability to "massage" the results.

And lest I be accused of my own bias in pointing out the unfairness of Lindsay's situation in relation to the other skaters, I'll add this: I don't particularly enjoy her skating.

 

[Minz]

I don't get everyone bashing on Amber. This was not, by any stretch of the imagination, a "disaster". People aren't robots. She's been skating well all season, and literally won the GPF! If she can skate fine tonight this one SP won't matter in the grand scheme of things.

 

[TontoK]

I don't get everyone bashing on Amber. This was not, by any stretch of the imagination, a "disaster". People aren't robots. She's been skating well all season, and literally won the GPF! If she can skate fine tonight this one SP won't matter in the grand scheme of things.

I'm not bashing on anyone. I haven't seen anyone else do that either. I have seen dispassionate critiques of the program. I stand by mine.

I agree she's skated well this season. Yes, she won the GPF. All of that is admirable, but it should not reflect on how this competition is judged. If we're going to start applying "body of work" to determine the outcomes of separate events, what is the point?

I join you in hoping that she skates well tonight.

 

[macy]

This will undoubtedly be an unpopular opinion but it's mine - I'm kind of tired of Amber and all her foibles. I respect the fact that she's working to stay healthy but she just plain got outskated yesterday. I don't buy the excuse that in 6 weeks she hasn't been able to get her strength back from the GPF. And she's not the first skater to be sick prior to a competition. She's an elite figure skater - that's her job - and at this point in the season Nationals should be her first responsibility. . She's supposedly taking care of her mind and her body so I just can't buy the excuses. I also have a hard time believing that the judges are involved in some kind of conspiracy to promote Isabeau. I think given Isabeau's record so far this year it will be interesting to see if the Worlds committee (or whomever) gives her a by to go to Worlds.

That's the best I've seen Bradie skate in a long time. She looked like she was enjoying herself and it showed in her performance. I do like Sarah Everhardt but was a little disappointed that Elise Lin Gracie didn't skate better. She's beautiful on the ice.

this is unreasonably dismissive and critical, Amber is a human. she a has an existence outside of skating and things that happen to her outside of skating that will affect her skating. she said last night in her interview she's had things going on outside the rink recently. it's not excuses, it's life.

 

[Mathman]

I'm not bashing on anyone. I haven't seen anyone else do that either. I have seen dispassionate critiques of the program. I stand by mine.

I think the criticism is directed against posters who strum the same sad tune over and over, that Amber is suddenly the darling who gets undeserved high marks -- and here is a stop-frame video tp prove it -- both nationally and internationally all the time. This is quite an unfair, even an absurd, take on this skater's career and even on her current standing in the sport.

More inetersting to me are the questions about conditioning. Is Amber all skated out at the moment? Will Alysa's SP lead hold up? The LP is an enurance test and an obstacle course. Alysa, at Skate Canada got 2nd in the short and 7th in the long. At NHK she got 4th and 4th, but head to head against Brady, Alysa beat her in the short, lost to her in the long.

All of these athletes are in good shape. Are they, as they say in boxing, in "ring shape"? We'll soon see.

By the way, personally I am more invested in who wins this competition than I am in who is tapped for the world team.

 

[Mathman]

In the future, suppose an AI program is developed to accurately mimic a tech panel without bias. I suspect the most vocal critics of this would be the federations. It would limit their ability to "massage" the results.

Naw, the most vocal critics would be us. "Oh, those nefarious scoundrels at the ISU have hacked their own program to cheat as usual." Or, "How did that blind AI program miss that q? I saw it with my own eyes."

GS will see post after post along such lines -- written by the posters' own AI composition programs for maximum effect.