A fair way to pick GPF finalists?

[Skater Boy]

What is fair is what depends on what you see as fair and that usually depends on one's own bias for whatever skater - what benefits them the most. However, I don't think they cn use the sP as the final results Unless it was in the rules an incomplete event goes by the last current standigns but that is not in the rules. some people might argue their lp is .sstronger so it isn't fair to them if the get penalized their strongest event never got done. at the same point I see the argujment it isn't fair to rely on the lp . Still you can't even average out results as each skater only has two events. I am not sure what the problem is but especially since they waited so long they can't say it is fair to make decision to include the sp s the final results. I guess it is just unlucky nd skaters at teb are just going to have to suck it up. still not fair but life isn't fair. .........................there are consequences sadly for misfortune- usually because as we saw last year somehow Hanyu though not his fault didn't have much repercusssionss for him skating with a concussion or head injury.

 

[ice coverage]

Karne, YES, YES, YES. Skaters at the other five events had a chance (for good or ill) to skate two performances. The competitors at TEB did not.. Why is that so hard to understand?

No, it's not fair. The rain falls on the just and the unjust. (No wait -- that IS fair. Never mind. ) ...

What karne understands perfectly well is that it is not fair -- as you said.

And the lack of fairness is troubling to her. As it is to me.

To turn your question around on you: "Why is that so hard for you to understand?"

 

[ice coverage]

They said it would be decided by the end of Wednesday. ...

Aren't they required to abide by the deadline they set...?

But "they" were not the ISU.
The ISU itself never said that it had set any deadline for itself, AFAIK.

If I'm not mistaken, the only mention of Wednesday was in the Russian press ... and was attributed to Kogan of the Russian fed, IIRC.

 

[Krunchii]

Well TEB SPs were the only segment where all the skaters had equal opportunity, it wasn't reflective of everything they have prepared for the season but these are extraordinary circumstances, there's not really a truly fair decision that is efficient and cost-effective.

I'll be sad not seeing talent like Patrick, Max and Liza at the GPF if they choose to use the SPs scores and their ranking points are not enough but because of the circumstances it happened under I can't really be mad. It's hard to make a good decision. As Patrick said it puts life into perspective. If they have to stay home then maybe they could concentrate on Nationals (well mostly Max and Liza) and maybe spend a little more time with family. I worry a bit about Patrick and his world ranking points but maybe if he doesn't make the GPF we'll see him at 4CCs? He hasn't been since 2012 so it'll be a treat.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

What karne understands perfectly well is that it is not fair -- as you said.

And the lack of fairness is troubling to her. As it is to me.

To turn your question around on you: "Why is that so hard for you to understand?"

Well I for one find it very unfair to select a few skaters and award them special privileges based on events that happened in the past. I don't doubt that they are right now conjuring up a plan to accomplish this but I wouldn't call it fair. Unless of course every person at TEB is granted some consideration too. Maybe some in 4th that didn't already have success should also be given some WR and GP points since the potential was there in the FS for them to make up ground. I mean....can we assume that everyone had the same chance to make up ground. Those skaters that get to go to GPF will in fact be able to score extra WR points. It looks to me though like only a few skaters are going to be given special treatment here and it isn't going to be given out across the field of competitors and it most certainly won't be based on how anyone skated in this event.

I just don't like condoning the concept of basing expected results on prior events. This isn't something I feel comfortable with the ISU putting into practice so blatantly. It lends itself to the consistency and integrity of the other events IMO. Like planting little seeds in a garden.

 

[ice coverage]

Well I for one find it very unfair to select a few skaters and award them special privileges based on events that happened in the past. ...

I just don't like condoning the concept of basing expected results on prior events. This isn't something I feel comfortable with the ISU putting into practice so blatantly. It lends itself to the consistency and integrity of the other events IMO. Like planting little seeds in a garden.

LOL, the entire GP system already rests on giving special privileges based on events that happened in the past.

The GPs are not open competitions. Past results determine who qualifies for the GP series. (The entire series, not just the final.)

And the GPs already base expected results on prior events. Why else is the skate order in the SPs/SD based on ISU World Standings?

As for consistency and integrity:
Acceptance of the SP results from TEB (without adjusting the GPF qualification procedure) would be an EGREGIOUS example of undermining the consistency and integrity of the GP series.

ETA:

I would be happy for everyone from TEB to be granted some consideration. And I have never said otherwise.​

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I've never been fond of how GP's are given out myself and the way "spots" for WC births are awarded

I never claimed you said that everyone shouldn't be given the same consideration. I said the ISU will likely just choose a few to grant special privileges too and it's one of the main reasons why I and maybe others may find it unfair. I don't even think I've disputed your points but maybe I just don't find it to be so unreasonable to hold everyone to the same standard without exceptions.

 

[Mathman]

To turn your question around on you: "Why is that so hard for you to understand?"

Of course I understand. It is not fair that some skaters got caught up in a terrorist attack while others didn't, and that this affected their skating opportunities.

As for the Grand Prix final, we must go with the results on the ice regardless of how that slippery surface might offend our sense of fairness.

Fair? Where are the justice warriors campaigning for Tarasova and Morosov? For Gilles and Poirier? For Sequin and Bilodeu?

 

[Marin]

http://www.isuresults.com/ws/ws/wsmen.htm
I am confused, SP results are added

 

[Mathman]

As for consistency and integrity:

Acceptance of the SP results from TEB (without adjusting the GPF qualification procedure) would be an EGREGIOUS example of undermining the consistency and integrity of the GP series.

This assertion has been repeated many times. Repetitions and capitalizations do not comprise an argument.

 

[peese]

Not the place to post this...but......Free Dance at Tallin Trophy is on livestream right now! Just thought I would notify here since the majority of the gang is on this post.

 

[ice coverage]

This assertion has been repeated many times. Repetitions and capitalizations do not comprise an argument.

Pot calling the kettle black -- definitely as far as repetitions :yes:.

(I don't remember whether you have used capitalizations.)

ETA, Sam-S is the one who brought up "integrity" again -- and I was responding to Sam-S.​

Of course I understand. It is not fair that some skaters got caught up in a terrorist attack while others didn't, and that this affected their skating opportunities.

As for the Grand Prix final, we must go with the results on the ice regardless of how that slippery surface might offend our sense of fairness.

Fair? Where are the justice warriors campaigning for Tarasova and Morosov? For Gilles and Poirier? For Sequin and Bilodeu?

The ISU has not yet spoken, so we do not yet know what "we must go with" re the GPF.

And as you well know, no one is stopping anyone's fans from speaking up for them in this thread.

The SP-results-only option would be the easiest to implement from the standpoint of practicality -- but whether it is more fair than other options is very much a matter of opinion.
And yes, I prefer fairness in sport . The ISU cannot control the terrorists, but the ISU can control its response to the havoc wreaked by the terrorists.

 

[Mathman]

And as you well know, no one is stopping anyone's fans from speaking up for them in this thread.

I guess we will have to wait and see whether the ISU is a "fan" of skaters like Sequin and Bilodeu, or only of Patrick Chan.

 

[ice coverage]

http://www.isuresults.com/ws/ws/wsmen.htm
I am confused, SP results are added

Thanks for the alert. A hopeful sign that an ISU announcement is coming soon.

 

[ice coverage]

I guess we will have to wait and see whether the ISU is a "fan" of skaters like Sequin and Bilodeu, or only of Patrick Chan.

You keep talking about realities.
The reality is that Patrick already won a GP this season. The reason his name keeps being invoked by people on every side of this issue is that he already won a GP this season.

I happen to like Patrick, but if he had not already earned 15 ranking points from 2015 Skate Canada, I for one would not be spending any extra time considering possible repercussions for him as opposed to any other TEB skater (Julianne/Charlie or anyone else).

 

[chuckm]

Thanks for the alert. A hopeful sign that an ISU announcement is coming soon.

Awarding the points from TEB changed the start order for the ladies at CoR: Rodeghiero moved up several places and now starts after Chartrand and Helgesson.

 

[qwertyskates]

Any news yet? I hope that they try to let any skater who had a good chance of getting to the GPF, eg. Tuk, Chan, Aaron, etc. participate for the sake of goodwill after such a trauma.

 

[ice coverage]

Awarding the points from TEB changed the start order for the ladies at CoR: Rodeghiero moved up several places and now starts after Chartrand and Helgesson.

Very interesting, chuckm.

I see now that the morning of Nov 18 is the time-stamp for the most recent updating of all the World Standings charts.

Also interesting that Nagai's bronze at Skate Canada International is mentioned in the ISU's preview of Rostelecom that was just published within the last hour.
But no mention of Rodeghiero's third place in the TEB SP. So I guess the ISU did not want to go there.

http://www.isu.org/en/single-and-pair-skating-and-ice-dance/news/2015/11/gp-rus-preview​

 

[ice coverage]

http://www.isuresults.com/ws/ws/wsmen.htm
I am confused, SP results are added

Interesting that Shoma's bio still does not show any placement for 2015 TEB.
http://www.isuresults.com/bios/isufs00012455.htm last update: 12.11.2015 16:34:07

But ... Rodeghiero's bio does now credit her with third place at 2015 TEB.
http://www.isuresults.com/bios/isufs00008959.htm last update: 18.11.2015 19:49:45

 

[Marin]

Interesting that Shoma's bio still does not show any placement for 2015 TEB.
http://www.isuresults.com/bios/isufs00012455.htm last update: 12.11.2015 16:34:07

But ... Rodeghiero's bio does now credit her with third place at 2015 TEB.
http://www.isuresults.com/bios/isufs00008959.htm last update: 18.11.2015 19:49:45

ISU..............:hpull: