A fair way to pick GPF finalists?

[mrrice]

I find this situation very unprofessional. I realize these are unusual circumstances. However, the ISU could have a given us a "Status Update" Something like..... "Rather than make an immediate decision, we've decided to wait until after the completion of the Cup Of Russia before making a formal statement." "Following that event, we will have a full report on our decision."

Then, at least we could move on and focus on other things.

 

[Violet Bliss]

But ... it also is significant that the ISU has held off from updating skater bios with TEB placements -- as discussed both in this thread and the other one. (The bio of Rodighiero, a Rostelecom entry, is an exception.)

So I do not feel sure at all that the ISU has made a decision to use TEB SP placements as final.

Usually the ISU bios are updated within hours of the conclusion of a GP. It does not take long at all to get the updating done.

In the case of TEB, the ISU clearly has made a choice not to go forward with all the updating yet.

Maybe so. But they have evidently updated the season's points and standings with TEB SP placements. Currently we have found at least one skater's bio that has been updated in line with that scenario. They may have simply not updated all bios yet, not necessarily a deliberate decision to wait.

 

[TwinnerA]

Because he wants more competition experience in preparation for Nationals and to gain more world ranking points.

It's like Elizaveta going to a million competitions last year.

Didn't she win something like 8 of 9 competitions she entered? Looking back, in her heyday, Michelle Kwan competed in at least 8 or 9 competitions each year and surprise surprise, she won practically all of them!

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Here's another option to consider. It involves reassessing the points given to skaters who did not compete at TEB as well. Please forgive me if this has already been suggested; I haven't read all 50+ pages of this thread.

All skaters could be given points for the short programs and free skates they've done (or will do) in the Grand Prix this season and the skaters with the most points get to compete in or be alternates for the Grand Prix Final. For a first place in a short program, a skater would get 15 points; for a second place in a short program, a skater would get 13 points and so on. For a first place in a free skate, a skater would get 30 points, for a second place in a free skate, a skater would get 26 points and so on—the free skates are worth double the short programs. No points would be awarded for a skater's non scoring event (if there are any skaters competing in three Grand Prix events).

For skaters who competed at TEB (as a scoring event), their total points would be multiplied by 6/4.

This could modify standings between non-TEB skaters, which would be problematic:

SP: 6 LP: 1 Total: 1 (15)
SP: 2 LP: 2 Total: 2 (13)

By counting the SP as a separate event, the silver medalist would get more points towards the GPF. This solution actually would have worked well under 6.0 because only placements mattered.

 

[altuixde]

Ah, good point.

There are pros and cons to every solution, though. Hopefully the ISU will state what they'll do soon enough, so the skaters know whether they need to prepare or not.

 

[Mathman]

We'll see how the final 2 events go... perhaps the ISU should make a decision only after those two events, and assesses who really deserves to be in the final after everyone has done their GPs.

This would reflect the typical ISU mindset. We do what we want and you-all are on a need to know basis.

In a fair contest you have to set the rules first, then see who is able to match the published criteria. The backward way is to give out the prize first, then concoct some post hoc rationale for having awarded it.

 

[altuixde]

In a fair contest you have to set the rules first, then see who is able to match the published criteria. The backward way is to give out the prize first, then concoct some post hoc rationale for having awarded it.

I agree, this is so true. The ISU needs to make an official decision right away, then.

 

[tulosai]

I also agree with mathman on this one. Whatever decision is made should be made now with the information we currently have, not in 2 weeks specifically to benefit one or two specific skaters.

 

[Leonardo]

:dev2: I can't wait anymore. Speedy, please honor your nickname.

 

[moriel]

I think its not only ISU maybe, could be the feds too.
For example, if Radio is high enough on podium to get into GPF, Russia maybe will not be so insistent about Liza, and if V/T and S/K are in, maybe they won't bother with T/M.
Maybe mens get all messed up and Patrick will end up in GPF even taking his SP placement on TEB and then canada will not complain much too..
etc

 

[tulosai]

I think its not only ISU maybe, could be the feds too.
For example, if Radio is high enough on podium to get into GPF, Russia maybe will not be so insistent about Liza, and if V/T and S/K are in, maybe they won't bother with T/M.
Maybe mens get all messed up and Patrick will end up in GPF even taking his SP placement on TEB and then canada will not complain much too..
etc

Right, these are also factors but the point many of us are trying to make is that this is on some level corrupt. I actually liked the example of buying a lottery ticket after the numbers are drawn when everyone else had to buy one before.

If the ISU truly wants certain skaters in the final and that is all that is motivating them, I think they should be brave enough to just say, full stop, 'in light of the tragedy, we have decided that X, Y, and Z will advance to the final based on their high finish in their first GP event and their scoring potential, in addition to the participants that will be selected based on the system that is already in place.' They'd rightly get a lot of flack for such an announcement, but I personally would at least respect that it was honest and transparent. Basically waiting till the last minute to see who actually makes the final, then, once that is known, deciding who else still 'should' go and making up some fake system to make sure they and only they get there is IMO corrupt.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

We've seen several viable proposals on this thread. I can't blame the ISU for taking it's time to consider all of the options they have before them, especially considering that all of this deliberation is possibly being done over e-mail across several time zones.

 

[Pamigena]

:dev2: I can't wait anymore. Speedy, please honor your nickname.

this might be my favorite post in the whole thread

 

[StitchMonkey]

Right, these are also factors but the point many of us are trying to make is that this is on some level corrupt. I actually liked the example of buying a lottery ticket after the numbers are drawn when everyone else had to buy one before.

If the ISU truly wants certain skaters in the final and that is all that is motivating them, I think they should be brave enough to just say, full stop, 'in light of the tragedy, we have decided that X, Y, and Z will advance to the final based on their high finish in their first GP event and their scoring potential, in addition to the participants that will be selected based on the system that is already in place.' They'd rightly get a lot of flack for such an announcement, but I personally would at least respect that it was honest and transparent. Basically waiting till the last minute to see who actually makes the final, then, once that is known, deciding who else still 'should' go and making up some fake system to make sure they and only they get there is IMO corrupt.

Agreed with everything especially the bolded. I would rather the blunt honesty. Heck if they even said "financially it would hurt the sport to not have them there" Id be ok with it because i can understand that is a concern and I don't want the sport hurt. If hypothetically certain skaters in attendance would make enough difference in money that it would affect prize money the next year.... i can't say going with the option that leads to more prize money for all is the wrong answer... it certainly is not evil. ...then again the cynic on my shoulder says i am giving them too much credit to think that they care about skater prize money.

If they just would say "we feel the sport needs these skaters" then i would roll my eyes and move on... maybe even give some benefit of doubt that they did feel trapped. As it stands, it just leaves a worse and worse taste in my mouth.

I don't like or need the endless needless drama. If they have agreed on who gets a bye... just bloody have the courage to tell us and move on. Funny thing is, the sooner they say something, the sooner everyone will be over it... maybe even in time for the final... if they get us an answer before NHK.

 

[moriel]

Right, these are also factors but the point many of us are trying to make is that this is on some level corrupt. I actually liked the example of buying a lottery ticket after the numbers are drawn when everyone else had to buy one before.

If the ISU truly wants certain skaters in the final and that is all that is motivating them, I think they should be brave enough to just say, full stop, 'in light of the tragedy, we have decided that X, Y, and Z will advance to the final based on their high finish in their first GP event and their scoring potential, in addition to the participants that will be selected based on the system that is already in place.' They'd rightly get a lot of flack for such an announcement, but I personally would at least respect that it was honest and transparent. Basically waiting till the last minute to see who actually makes the final, then, once that is known, deciding who else still 'should' go and making up some fake system to make sure they and only they get there is IMO corrupt.

Id be ok with either way tbh, if they just said what you just wrote or if they said "We decided we will wait for two more competition to decide what we will do with TEB skaters", so people know what is going on.
The silence is the worst thing they can do.

 

[lyndichee]

Didn't she win something like 8 of 9 competitions she entered? Looking back, in her heyday, Michelle Kwan competed in at least 8 or 9 competitions each year and surprise surprise, she won practically all of them!

Liza went to around 12 I think? If you count nationals and worlds. She only lots of Radionova at Nationals and Skate America. I would like to see skaters out more tackling competitions but I think it's too pricey these days. I think its easier for Liza just because she's in Europe.

 

[karne]

Liza went to around 12 I think? If you count nationals and worlds. She only lots of Radionova at Nationals and Skate America. I would like to see skaters out more tackling competitions but I think it's too pricey these days. I think its easier for Liza just because she's in Europe.

I think Liza's final count was 15 for 12 wins, two seconds and a WD.

 

[sowcow]

I don't like or need the endless needless drama.

Let's be honest here ... the only drama has been from the endless posting / complaining / speculating by GoldenSkate members!!

Want evidence? Well ... I suggest starting with the 52 pages of posts in the TEB is Cancelled thread, and continue through the current 54 pages in this thread: A fair way to pick GPF finalists?. Afterwards, let me know if you think differently!!


Regarding the ISU ... one can hardly infer that a silent ISU equates to endless, needless drama!! :roll5:

Although some might argue that the 'partial' release of TEB points today is evidence of a scheme to slowly "drip out" the official decision (which, if true, would rise to the level of "drama"). However, it is far more likely it was done only out of necessity (so that the order of skating ot CoR would reflect the set ISU rules).


Just calling 'em as I see 'em! Don't shoot the messenger!

Cheers,
Steve

 

[Mathman]

Want evidence? Well ... I suggest starting with the 52 pages of posts in the TEB is Cancelled thread, and continue through the current 54 pages in this thread: A fair way to pick GPF finalists?.

That's our job. :yes: As you document, we're pretty good at it.

Waiting now for the ISU to do their's.

 

[Pamigena]

Well, others might say that silence can also speak volumes. Feel free to disagree.